Topic: Bad tagging performance (Read 6464 times)

ChrisRainman · « **on:** December 29, 2005, 07:38:46 pm »

When tagging files within the table view it sometimes takes some seconds for a single field change operation.

It looks like the performance problems only occur if view schemes contain queries. For instance, if changing fields within the main tree "Audio" view MC appears quite quick but for a query like "last 50 albums" (or any other queries) MC behaves quite slow.

I noticed that the "Loading panes" message seems to be involved in the reasons for this. Every time I change a single field a recalculation (loading panes) takes place which takes a long time depending on the type of query and number of files in the database. In my case, MC handles about 30.000 files which I thought are not too much?

Couldn't it be possible to avoid "Loading panes" when changing single fields? (Buffer the qyuery result or avoid recalculation?
I hope, you can see what I mean!?

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** December 29, 2005, 08:57:28 pm »

Is this the same problem?
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=31000.0

ChrisRainman · « **Reply #2 on:** December 30, 2005, 04:11:45 am »

My settings fullfill the conditions of the linked post. The drive is external and FAT32. But the field changes take about 3-5 seconds - not a minute.

Anyway, I wonder why tagging only is slow in view scheme with queries. For me it looks obvious that it's because of the "Loading panes". When changing a field the query is performed again (visible via status bar message "Loading panes") and as such queries can take some seconds tagging becomes very slow!

Anyway, I will try out if I can notice changes and report my result.

Sauzee · « **Reply #3 on:** December 30, 2005, 06:10:24 am »

I get this "loading panes" delay too.

It only happens when entering tag info directly into a view scheme column/row ( any view scheme with panes). However, if you enter the tag info into the action window there is no "loading panes" delay.

I've had this issue for a while now.

KingSparta · « **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2005, 06:43:45 am »

I reported this many builds ago

If you take just a few files and place them in Playing now it works ok too

ChrisRainman · « **Reply #5 on:** December 30, 2005, 10:33:58 am »

Sometimes it's quite useful to directly edit fields in table view. Couldn't this easily be solved?

For smartlists editing also looks ok. The problem seems to occur only for view schemes.

KingSparta · « **Reply #6 on:** December 30, 2005, 11:21:39 am »

well there is also another problem with directly edit fields

if you move down or up using the up and down arrow most of the time MC will force you out of edit mode.

At lest it does here on two of my computers, in older builds it worked fine for me.

Sauzee · « **Reply #7 on:** December 30, 2005, 11:41:57 am »

Quote from: ChrisRainman on December 30, 2005, 10:33:58 am

Sometimes it's quite useful to directly edit fields in table view. Couldn't this easily be solved?

I do the majority of my tagging in the view schemes - the delays are a bit of a pain!

marko · « **Reply #8 on:** December 31, 2005, 02:25:25 am »

I was tagging some images last night using tagging mode in the panes. the delays were awful so I cut the work short.

while helping johnfriend out with an expression based calculated library field, a thought occurred to me.

We created a calculated field, [import date], using the expression: FormatDate([Date Imported], yyyy//MM//dd)

I found I could include it either as a column or a pane or both....
adding it to the filelist slows things down a fair bit, adding it as a viewscheme pane made things painfully slow, and adding it as both almost brought MC, or my system, to it's knees with the entire screen turning white after a fair few seconds of inactivity, before springing back into action with fully loaded panes.
using the expression directly via the add>advanved expression dialogue, things are much quicker all around.

got me thinking about my image tagging last night...
I don't have any expression based library fields in use, but went back for another look at the viewscheme.
The first pane in the scheme was a [location] pane. removing it speeded things up tenfold. I still feel things are slower than usual overall, but it would appear that speed depends a lot upon what panes are used in the viewscheme. Also, filtering a list by making a selection in the right-most pane, then tagging via a pane to the left is very slow indeed.

hit_ny · « **Reply #9 on:** December 31, 2005, 03:42:27 am »

Quote from: Sauzee on December 30, 2005, 11:41:57 am

I do the majority of my tagging in the view schemes - the delays are a bit of a pain!

As do i and many others i suspect.

It should not make any difference where tagging is done.

ForsakenArdor · « **Reply #10 on:** December 31, 2005, 06:59:09 am »

I've had this problem since MC9. It's not there if you have no files in your library, but if you got a bunch, then every time you type a letter, MC searches your entire library for files that start with that letter to autocomplete that. When you type the next letter, the search is narrowed, or it stops if there are no matches and keeps going until it runs out of matches. I find that if I have a bunch of files I need to tag in a row, I like to click and then click again (not double-click) on the name field, type in the song name, then click down and do another name, then down again and repeat until all the names are filled; doing it this way, there's no lag. I like to use the action window to tag all the files with the same year, album and other fields in common. The lag isn't so bad for most fields, but it's intolerable if you try to tag the name field with the action window because it's basically searching through each and every song name in your library.

I would like to suggest an option to turn off autocomplete in the tag info box as well as the main view pane, BUT I would still like it if I could select from a drop down window, say, if you have several files highlighted and try to tag it, the original text in the fields you were editing would appear. For example:

file 1, album 1
file 2, album 1
file 3, album 2
file 4, album 2
file 5, album 3

If all these files are highlighted, if you click in the album field (which would say <varies>) I would still like it to show album 1, 2 and 3 in the drop-down menu like it does now but not have each and every album show up underneath. That's how I use the features anyhow. Those who want each and every album to show up can just turn on autocomplete.

lukecro · « **Reply #11 on:** January 02, 2006, 03:18:17 pm »

Quote from: ForsakenArdor on December 31, 2005, 06:59:09 am

I've had this problem since MC9. It's not there if you have no files in your library, but if you got a bunch, then every time you type a letter, MC searches your entire library for files that start with that letter to autocomplete..... I would like to suggest an option to turn off autocomplete in the tag info box as well as the main view pane, BUT...

You guys have described my thoughts on this better than I ever could. I've had exactly the same problems: starting with MC9 these annoying little tag delays. I know that sometimes MC is really fast and sometimes the tagging is dreadfully slow, but I'd never figured out what was causing the slow down....

I hadn't realized that it might only be occurring on certain view configuarions or that Autocomplete might be part of the problem, but that makes sense. Although it's a nice feature in theory, I don't use Autocomplete too often, so if turning it off will get rid of the delays, I'd be absolutely thrilled to turn it off, if it's possible.... I'll also try tagging in other view schemes/playing now and see if that speeds things up.

ChrisRainman · « **Reply #12 on:** January 03, 2006, 08:50:03 am »

It's somehow good to hear that it's not only me being frustrated with tagging sometimes.

I've tested things now with version 11.1.91. The problem with "Loading panes" remains the same. It looks obvious that this causes the delays. When changing tags in the main tree (Audio) it's quite quick even though the "Loading Panes" also takes place. When changing tags within a view scheme tree containing query conditions tagging still becomes very slow.

Why is the recalculation of the view scheme necessary? It would make sense if the panes would be updated immediately but that isn't the case. So the only case I can think of is when deleting a file.

c1c9k72 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 03, 2006, 09:08:46 am »

Just wanted to chime in and second the need for an Autocomplete option. I've got a mid-sized database (about 10,000 items) and tagging lately has been very, very slow. It seems to take forever to autocomplete even the smallest word, and given my choice, I'd love to have a way to shut it off.

Deivit · « **Reply #14 on:** January 03, 2006, 10:28:58 am »

Same here.

I'm aware that the size of my database is not like the average one, but "tagging mode" using a view scheme is unuseful due to the "loading panes" thing and tagging with the Action Window is painfully slow due to MC trying to autocomplete most of the fields. A way to disable "autocomplete" for tagging certain fields would be very welcomed here.

Thank you.

Matt · « **Reply #15 on:** January 03, 2006, 04:48:58 pm »

Auto-complete shouldn't be slow with the latest MC 11.1 build. (let us know if you see otherwise)

If pane updating is taking too long, try to simplify your view scheme. Calculated fields or expressions will be much slower than standard fields.

ChrisRainman · « **Reply #16 on:** January 04, 2006, 09:20:33 am »

Matt, thanks for your statement. I want to give an easy example where tagging speed is reduced significantly:

I have a scheme called Albums which contains the following expression:

[Media Type]=[Audio],[Image] -[Album]=[] -[Genre]=[Vocal] [Complete Album]==1

Below, I have several schemes like single artist, favourite albums, new albums. Below new albums ([Date Imported]=<1y) I have e.g. Imported since 30 days:

~sort=[Album Artist(auto)],[Album],[Track #] [Date Imported]=<=30d

I agree and can understand that this takes a bit time. I've got some more view schemes which are definitely more complex and also use own custom fields (situation, mood).

Anyway, why isn't it possible by just not to update panes after a field change? What is it good for? Wouldn't it be sufficient if users could manually initiate a update if wanted?

I want to use complex view schemes because that's a big strength of MC - but I also want to refine my library quality by being able to quickly add field tags from within any view scheme.

lukecro · « **Reply #17 on:** January 04, 2006, 11:10:18 pm »

Thanks for speeding up the Auto-complete feature. I'll have to test that more and get back to you if it's still slow. I don't think it's the entire slow-down issue, though, as the update panes even in a standard scheme can (seemingly) slow things down.

Here's a recent example (from an hour ago):

I clicked on Audio in the main tree to see all my audio tracks. Then clicked in the Search field (ctrl-F) and did a search for Oasis, so that my view only showed, well, Oasis tracks.

I then started making tag changes to a bunch of Oasis tracks, one at a time. I kept getting delays from a second to 20 seconds (not all the time, but very often).

So, using a tip listed in this thread, I moved all of the Oasis files into Playing Now. I then went to the Playing Now screen and did my tagging there.... and it was (seemingly) significantly faster. So that's a great workaround and I'll keep using it, but it's not an intuitive process for newer users (heck, I've been using MC for years and never thought to try this before).

I do have over 22,000 MP3 files in my database, though, and my PC is about two years old. So those factors are sure to contribute to slow downs... but still....

Anyway, I need to play around with the new build more before saying anything else.

ChrisRainman · « **Reply #18 on:** January 20, 2006, 03:54:29 am »

Again, I wanna complain about the tagging performance. I performed several tests by playing around with panes, conditions, etc.

E.g. the very interesting formula (posted by someone else in this forum)

If(IsEqual(FormatDate([Date Imported,0],elapsed),1d,4),0. Today,If(IsEqual(Mid(FormatDate([Date Imported,0],elapsed),2,1),:,1),0. Today,If(IsEqual(Mid(FormatDate([Date Imported,0],elapsed),5,5),hours,1),1. Last 2 days,If(IsEqual(FormatDate([Date Imported,0],elapsed), 7d, 4),2. Last Week,If(IsEqual(FormatDate([Date Imported,0],elapsed), 31d, 4),3. Older than one week,If(IsEqual(FormatDate([Date Imported,0],elapsed), 184d, 4),4. Older than one month,If(IsEqual(FormatDate([Date Imported,0],elapsed), 365d, 4),5. Older than half a year,6. Older than year)))))))

makes tagging in that view impossible. Every single field change takes about 15 seconds (2400 Pentium, 1 GB RAM)

Limiting the number of files to 1000 reduces the time needed to about 2 seconds.

So the important parameter is the number of files not the complexity of queries. Of course, having complex panes reduces the speed until a next field is ready for input, but insignificantly.

The real problem with large file libraries is the LOADING PANES.

When is this refreshment needed? Couldn't it be possible to initiate the panes update manually or only in special cases, e.g. only when a column is changed that is part of the pane?

I think in this aerea there's some space for speed improvements. Everybody, who has a larger library probably knows these problems. Or is your recommendation to reduce the library size?

JimH · « **Reply #19 on:** January 20, 2006, 07:21:22 am »

What version are you using? Please copy your system info from MC Help and paste it here.

ChrisRainman · « **Reply #20 on:** January 20, 2006, 08:24:12 am »

OK:

Media Center Registered 11.1.102 -- C:\Programme\J River\Media Center 11\

Microsoft Windows XP Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 2, v.2096 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 2373 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 1048 MB, Free - 534 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2900.2096 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82.2900 / Shlwapi.dll: 6.0.2900 / Shell32.dll: 6.0.2900 / wnaspi32.dll: N/A
Ripping / Drive K: Mode:Normal Type:Auto Speed:Max
Drive P: Mode:Normal Type:Auto Speed:Max
Drive R: Mode:Normal Type:Auto Speed:Max
Digital playback: Yes / Use YADB: Yes / Get cover art: No / Calc replay gain: Yes / Copy volume: 32767
Eject after ripping: Yes / Play sound after ripping: No

Burning / Drive K: HL-DT-ST CD-RW GCE-8320B Addr: 0:1:0 Speed:32 MaxSpeed:32 BurnProof:Yes
Drive R: BENQ DVD DD EW162I Addr: 2:0:0 Speed:40 MaxSpeed:40 BurnProof:Yes
Test mode: No / Eject after writing: Yes / Direct decoding: Yes / Write CD-Text: Yes
Use playback settings: No /

JimH · « **Reply #21 on:** January 20, 2006, 08:33:04 am »

Is there a network drive or a USB driver involved?

ChrisRainman · « **Reply #22 on:** January 20, 2006, 10:29:56 am »

Yes, the database and the music is on an external harddisk connected via USB 2.0.

JimH · « **Reply #23 on:** January 20, 2006, 10:35:23 am »

Can you see if you can duplicate the problem on a local drive? Just as a test?

There are some known problems with the new types of drives. Check this thread, near the bottom for a couple:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=24031;start=0

ChrisRainman · « **Reply #24 on:** January 20, 2006, 10:58:56 am »

Do you mean the library or music files?

I don't have that space on local drives for the music files...

JimH · « **Reply #25 on:** January 20, 2006, 11:09:27 am »

Quote from: ChrisRainman on January 20, 2006, 10:58:56 am

Do you mean the library or music files?

Both. It's the only way to eliminate the drive as the cause of the problem. Testing with the library and part of the files might tell you something.

ChrisRainman · « **Reply #26 on:** January 20, 2006, 11:22:49 am »

OK, I'll do my best and let you know...

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Author Topic: Bad tagging performance (Read 6464 times)