Topic: Way to load portable with random full albums (I think) (Read 4195 times)

Nolonemo · « **on:** January 06, 2006, 12:31:07 pm »

I want to randomly select 40GB of complete albums and put them in a playlist so I can sync to my portable. I've come up with this, and think it works:

sort:random modifier:full albums limit:40000
(done using the smartlist dropdown menus)

I should clarify, that what I want the smartlist to do is to grab a random sampling of tracks, add all the other tracks that are in the albums from which the random sample is taken, but limit the final size of the playlist. (What I don't want is a random sample of tracks only from full albums which would result in incomplete albums on the playlist).

I think the above works, I think that what it is doing (because the smartlist appears to apply the list parameters in sequence) is:

1. randomly grab all the tracks in the library

2. then, the effect of the "full albums" modifier is to sort the playlist by album in the order the album first appeared in the random list (it doesn't add any tracks because they're already all in the list) [i.e., if there are 3 albums, each with 3 tracks, and the initial random track order is b-3, a-2, a-1, c-1, b-2, a-1, c-2, c-3, b-1, then after the full album modifier is applied, the playlist order will be b-1, b-2, b-3, a-1, a-2, a-3, c-1, c-2, c-3]

3. then the effect of the limit modifier is to lop off the tracks on the bottom of the playlist that exceed the size limit.

So there will almost always be one incomplete album on the playlist, but I can live with that.

Man, I love this program!

Any comments?

(For those who care, I'm doing this because I want to make sure there's "fresh blood" on my portable, which I often listen to in random mode, but then switch to a full album when the impulse strikes. This smartlist is an easy way to select a random subset of my full library to sych over, while ensuring that I have full albums on the portable. I never actually use the playlist for listening.)

sbsp2 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2006, 01:00:53 pm »

I tested it on my library and it seemed to work (gave the results you desired).

You might want to add: -[Genre]=[Podcast] [Media Type]=[Audio]
for not Podcasts and Audio only.

hit_ny · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2006, 01:02:05 pm »

i believe you would want to use the new ~fill modifier (introduced from 11.1.38 onwards) instead of limit

use ~fill=[...] with a device name to specify a device.

sbsp2 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2006, 01:04:23 pm »

Ooops...looks like Full Albums doesn't work. Might be a bug or it doesn't do what you (we) think it does (by its name). I suggest you research the help for Smartlist Modifiers.

From Help:
Full Albums ~a
ex. ~a desolation row
will return all full albums containing the words desolation row.

Full Albums does NOT work like you think it does and will not produce a list as you desire (with all the tracks from each album selected at random up to 40gb).

You need some advanced form of the Limit (~limit=) command, but I can't figure it out.

Nolonemo · « **Reply #4 on:** January 06, 2006, 01:39:54 pm »

hit_ny - thanks for the tip, but I don't want to fill the device, I want to leave some room to load the latest acquisitions as well.

sbsp2 - how exactly do you mean? -- but check my original post which I have extensively edited. I'm doing this at work

and I only have four albums on my PC, so I can't test on a really large library. B

I've tested with initial limit of 6 tracks for the random list (sort- random, limit- 6 tracks, modifier-full albums, limit-xx MB) and I end up with full albums in the list (up to the last album which is truncated to hit the MB limit)

sbsp2 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 06, 2006, 01:42:00 pm »

I mean of the 40gb is selects, it does NOT select all the tracks from the albums it selected. Please read the Help for Smartlist and Search modifiers.

Nolonemo · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2006, 01:58:57 pm »

Got it, you're right. If I start out with sort=random and limit=6 tracks (so I have 6 random tracks) and add the modifier full albums, the list adds all the full albums, not just the missing tracks from the albums the 6 tracks came from.

But it doesn't matter to me because in my list, the function of the full albums modifier is only to sort the tracks by album so that the size function will only truncate one album when it's run.

But note that if you start the smartlist by limiting to specific artists, allbums, or tracks, then full albums will only add albums from those artists, albums or tracks.

For example, I have a standard mellow jazz playlist. Then I create a smartlist that has its first modifier a limit to the tracks in the mellow jazz playlist, and then I add the full albums modifier. I that case, the full albums modifier adds only the tracks to fill out the albums in the initial limit. (I've done this, so I know it works this way in this instance)

It may be that the modifier will ignore partial albums, I don't know, since virtually all of my albums are full, it hasn't been an issue for me.

sbsp2 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2006, 02:12:50 pm »

Good luck. I think once you try this at home with your big MC database you'll see that it does NOT produce what you wanted (described). Basically, you do not end up with a 40gb list of complete albums in it. Full Albums is not a sort modifier.

Nolonemo · « **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2006, 02:14:18 pm »

Quote from: sbsp2 on January 06, 2006, 01:42:00 pm

I mean of the 40gb is selects, it does NOT select all the tracks from the albums it selected. Please read the Help for Smartlist and Search modifiers.

Though I think you have the sequence mixed up, the sequence is:

random sort all track
modify by adding full albums (which has the effect of sorting the albums)
modify by limiting to xxGB (removes excess tracks from end of playlist to hit target)

Just to add to the confusion, I just deliberately created an incomplete album in my 4-album test world. If I create a playlist that selects 6 random tracks and then run the full albums modifier on it, it will add all the remaining tracks from the incomplete album if the a track from the incomplete album appeared in the initial 6 tracks. Go figure.

zxsix · « **Reply #9 on:** January 06, 2006, 02:15:11 pm »

Quote from: Nolonemo on January 06, 2006, 12:31:07 pm

So there will almost always be one incomplete album on the playlist, but I can live with that.

This part is incorrect. You won't have a partial album because of the order you have the modifiers. It's exactly what I do for my wife's nano. It selects the complete albums first, then if it's going to exceed the size limit, it backs off one complete album and leaves a few MB free space.

Nolonemo · « **Reply #10 on:** January 06, 2006, 02:16:53 pm »

Quote from: sbsp2 on January 06, 2006, 02:12:50 pm

Good luck. I think once you try this at home with your big MC database you'll see that it does NOT produce what you wanted (described). Basically, you do not end up with a 40gb list of complete albums in it. Full Albums is not a sort modifier.

I agree that Full Albums is not intended to be a sort modifier, but is definitely has the effect of acting that way in my limited 4-album universe. However, as you say, the real test is running the list in my 120GB library at home to see what I end up with.

Thanks for your comments, and let me know if you fiddle around any more with this idea

Nolonemo · « **Reply #11 on:** January 06, 2006, 02:19:55 pm »

Quote from: zxsix on January 06, 2006, 02:15:11 pm

This part is incorrect. You won't have a partial album because of the order you have the modifiers. It's exactly what I do for my wife's nano. It selects the complete albums first, then if it's going to exceed the size limit, it backs off one complete album and leaves a few MB free space.

Definitely not what's happening in my 4-album test bed, I end up with a couple tracks from one album at the bottom of the playlist, which is close to the size limit.

BTW, I'm running 11.0.309 of MC11. I wonder if that has anything to do with it. Anyway, I need to get back to work here.....

zxsix · « **Reply #12 on:** January 06, 2006, 02:22:19 pm »

I'm on latest build of 11.1. The order that you put things makes a difference. I'm not getting partial albums.
I'm home late tonight so I'll post my exact syntax tomorrow and you can try that. I think they've changed some things in the syntax area in 11.1. You might want to upgrade, I find it to be stable.

sbsp2 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 06, 2006, 02:24:40 pm »

Quote from: Nolonemo on January 06, 2006, 02:14:18 pm

Though I think you have the sequence mixed up, the sequence is:

random sort all track
modify by adding full albums (which has the effect of sorting the albums)
modify by limiting to xxGB (removes excess tracks from end of playlist to hit target)

Well, I of course tested in the order you provided and the results are NOT complete albums in the list. Maybe it is an MC 11.1.94 issue (I don't know). I'm just telling you it ain't good (haha).

Nolonemo · « **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2006, 02:27:23 pm »

Yeah, I wonder if it's a version thing. Anyway, thanks to you both for chiming in, greatly appreciated.

zxsix · « **Reply #15 on:** January 06, 2006, 02:37:23 pm »

Ok, got it via Library Server.
Try this. You'll have to edit out the keywords field. I use that as a flag of which tracks are allowed on each device.
The total tracks in the library marked as nano well exceed 4 GB.
What I end up with is 1 complete album per artist and no partial albums.
The last artist on the device has a complete album, not a partial one.

[Media Type]=[Audio] -[Genre]=[Comedy],[Podcast] [Keywords]=[Nano] sort=[Artist],[Album],[Track #] ~nodup=[Artist] ~a ~s=3600

sbsp2 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 06, 2006, 02:41:01 pm »

Quote from: zxsix on January 06, 2006, 02:37:23 pm

Ok, got it via Library Server.
Try this. You'll have to edit out the keywords field. I use that as a flag of which tracks are allowed on each device.
The total tracks in the library marked as nano well exceed 4 GB.
What I end up with is 1 complete album per artist and no partial albums.
The last artist on the device has a complete album, not a partial one.

[Media Type]=[Audio] -[Genre]=[Comedy],[Podcast] [Keywords]=[Nano] sort=[Artist],[Album],[Track #] ~nodup=[Artist] ~a ~s=3600

Tried it, removed Keywords field and the results were nothing (0 tracks listed in smartlist):

[Media Type]=[Audio] -[Genre]=[Comedy],[Podcast] sort=[Artist],[Album],[Track #] ~nodup=[Artist] ~a ~s=3600

Added ~ before sort and got a list, but with 1 track from each artist only and always track # 1. Weird, eh?

zxsix · « **Reply #17 on:** January 06, 2006, 02:45:55 pm »

Gotta be a difference in the version then.
You could get rid of the genre string too maybe.
The other fields are pretty much required and are standard in the database.

Nolonemo · « **Reply #18 on:** January 06, 2006, 02:50:14 pm »

Quote from: zxsix on January 06, 2006, 02:45:55 pm

Gotta be a difference in the version then.
You could get rid of the genre string too maybe.
The other fields are pretty much required and are standard in the database.

I tried removing the genre and the keyword strings, and got 0 tracks in the list. (But i have an older version anyway).

hit_ny · « **Reply #19 on:** January 07, 2006, 02:42:12 am »

[Media Type]=[Audio] ~nodup=[Artist] ~a ~s=3600

Gives me a list of stuff 3.5GBs big.

marko · « **Reply #20 on:** January 07, 2006, 04:28:23 am »

~a appears to be broken in the latest build.

the above search gets me 3.5 gigs of stuff too, but no full albums.

investigation showed me that the ~nodup modifier was taking precedence over ~a (or ~a is busted)

the following search only returns 5 tracks...

[media type]=[audio] tn==1 ~n=5 ~a

~a is broken. removing the tracks modifier doesn't help either, so it doesn't appear to be a modifier conflict.

==============
might be worth mentioning the difference between ~a and [complete album] (as I see them)

~a is a 'full album' modifier that adds all other files, regardless of media type, that match the album tag.

[complete album] is an internal database field used to help identify albums with missing tracks.

~a would list all files associated with an incomplete album.
[complete album]=1 will return only albums that are deemed complete by MC

Regarding the original post, depending upon how precise you want to be, the following works on build .95, and seems to land around the 39 gig area pretty consistantly.

-g=podcast ft=mp3 ~limit=380,-1,[album]

-marko.

hit_ny · « **Reply #21 on:** January 07, 2006, 04:33:37 am »

Quote from: Nolonemo on January 06, 2006, 12:31:07 pm

(For those who care, I'm doing this because I want to make sure there's "fresh blood" on my portable, which I often listen to in random mode, but then switch to a full album when the impulse strikes.

The "fresh" part is lacking in the solutions proposed so far.

Unless you take into account number of plays, last heard date etc.

marko · « **Reply #22 on:** January 07, 2006, 04:48:42 am »

I thought that too. When I tested, my 49gigs of mp3's came in at around 500 albums. I didn't feel that a random 380 albums from a pool of just 500 would appear to change very much. "that nolonemo guy must have a massive archive to be able to grab 40 gigs of fresh material like that"

I didn't pursue things any further upon discovering that ~a is broken atm.

zxsix · « **Reply #23 on:** January 07, 2006, 01:54:13 pm »

Looks like ~a broke in build 94.
I rolled back to 92 and it's fine there.
I added it to the buglist in the latest build post.

marko · « **Reply #24 on:** January 07, 2006, 02:03:04 pm »

Nolonemo · « **Reply #25 on:** January 09, 2006, 04:36:31 pm »

Yeah, it must be version-related, it worked fine for me in my full library at home (running an older build of MC11).

zxsix · « **Reply #26 on:** January 09, 2006, 10:49:54 pm »

This is back to normal in build 96.
[Media Type]=[Audio] ~nodup=[Artist] ~a ~s=3600
Wanna give that a try again?

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Author Topic: Way to load portable with random full albums (I think) (Read 4195 times)