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[Alex B]

Thought track based replay gain would keep the volume close between tracks, making it harder to spot differences.

For example:

Track number 1 = a quiet intro  ->  replay gain + 2 dB
Track number 2 = a loud track that starts with a very short quiet passage  ->  replay gain -13 dB

On the seamless track change the volume adjustment changes 15 dB.

[Pink Waters]

I use album based replay gain, affect something ?

[Matt]

Alex, thanks for the follow up.

Indeed, the decoder delay was getting accounted for at the head of the file, but not at the tail.

Tonight's build should be perfecto.

[Pink Waters]

Thanks matt

[Alex B]

.... Also the track lengths are slightly different:

MC
85s 596 ms
3774787 samples @ 44100Hz
File size: 15 099 192 bytes

foobar
85s 800 ms
3783780 samples @ 44100Hz
File size: 15 135 164 bytes

Winamp 5.2
85s 800 ms
3783780 samples @ 44100Hz
File size: 15 135 164 bytes

Perhaps this means something. Winamp and foobar files have the same amount of samples.

MC11.1.140
85s 800 ms
3783780 samples @ 44100Hz
File size: 15 135 164 bytes

MC is "perfecto" now. All three players seem to make a very quiet (almost inaudible) and about identical click at 15.7 s. Otherwise I cannot hear any differences when compared with the wave files that I used for encoding the MP3s.

[JimH]

Thanks very much, Alex, for a thorough job of pinning down the problem.

[Pink Waters]

Thanks Alex B, you're the man

[lalittle]

Winamp 5.2
85s 800 ms
3783780 samples @ 44100Hz
File size: 15 135 164 bytes

Perhaps this means something. Winamp and foobar files have the same amount of samples.

That's really interesting.  This is on the same file?  How could one program "see" a different number of samples in the same file?

UPDATE:  Does 140 address this with this:

14. Fixed: Gapless MP3 playback would not properly account for the decoder delay at the end of the file -- causing a possible pop.

Thanks,

Larry

[lalittle]

Does 140 address this with this

To answer my own question, my quick tests seem to indicate that this DOES address the "click" issue.  I tried some of my earlier tests, and they played back with no clicks this time.  I think this may have fixed the issue and given us gapless, clickless mp3 playback.  THANKS to everyone at JRiver as well as to members of this forum for not giving up on this issue.

I just wish that players like the iPod would just follow in the footsteps of companies like JRiver.  There really is NO more excuse for gaps in mp3 playback.

Larry

[hit_ny]

I just wish that players like the iPod would just follow in the footsteps of companies like JRiver.  There really is NO more excuse for gaps in mp3 playback.

Indeed, i wait for the day that the iPod can understand CUE files.

..failing that rockbox at least.

[Alex B]

That's really interesting.  This is on the same file?  How could one program "see" a different number of samples in the same file?

No, not in the same file. The difference was in the disk writer output files:

... I made two combained disk writer output files (with MC11.1.139 & foobar2000 0.83).

I played the files with Wavelab and monitored the differences. Here are my notes: ...

[hit_ny]

MC reported fewer samples than FB2K..

..wonder with the new fix whether the sample counts are identical now.

[Alex B]

I just wish that players like the iPod would just follow in the footsteps of companies like JRiver.  There really is NO more excuse for gaps in mp3 playback.

iTunes uses Apple's own MP3 encoder, which doesn't write the LAME Info Tag. Unless Apple is willing to change the encoder too, I don't think they'll ever add support for this.

The Rockbox firmware is supposed to be able to play LAME files gaplessly.

EDIT

There is a chance that the other DAP manufacterers will find gapless decoding as a competitive factor. Maybe Apple would be forced to add it if the other manufacturers would advertise gapless LAME MP3 playback as a feature that iPod lacks.

[Alex B]

MC reported fewer samples than FB2K..

..wonder with the new fix whether the sample counts are identical now.

I guess you didn't notice this:

MC11.1.140
85s 800 ms
3783780 samples @ 44100Hz
File size: 15 135 164 bytes

MC is "perfecto" now. All three players seem to make a very quiet (almost inaudible) and about identical click at 15.7 s. Otherwise I cannot hear any differences when compared with the wave files that I used for encoding the MP3s.

[lalittle]

Indeed, i wait for the day that the iPod can understand CUE files.

For my personal needs, the LAME fix is a better alternative since it utilizes regular, seperate mp3's.  This is a better choice for me due to the current domination of standard mp3's in the marketplace.

..failing that rockbox at least.

Unfortunately, this is not an option for me since I need Audible support, and the latest word is that Rockbox isn't likely to support Audible files natively.  If this changes, it might be an option, but it doesn't look good at this point from what I've read.

Larry

[hit_ny]

I guess you didn't notice this:

i did not, its good to know we can *finally* put this gapless issue to rest. We seem to have come out with some addtional features as well.

For my personal needs, the LAME fix is a better alternative since it utilizes regular, seperate mp3's.  This is a better choice for me due to the current domination of standard mp3's in the marketplace.

Sure if you can re-rip stuff. I was hoping to avoid that step.

[lalittle]

Sure if you can re-rip stuff. I was hoping to avoid that step.

Keep in mind, however, that you only need to re-rip the albums where songs don't have silence between them, which may only be a small percentage of your library.  Also, if you've been using MC to rip your albums, you'll find that MC has been using a version of the LAME encoder that contains the gapless metadata for quite a while now.  I checked some of my older rips, and the MC file info indicates that even these older files contain the metadata.

Even if you do have to re-rip, I find that if you just do an album here and an album there, it gets done faster than you'd think.

Larry

[Alex B]

P.S. I would like to ask to add MC to the gapless Wiki page (or do it myself), but I can't do that if the test files available on the same page don't play as well as when played with foobar.

Just to make sure, is everyone fine with gapless LAME playback? I am about to announce this at a couple of other forums.

[lalittle]

Just to make sure, is everyone fine with gapless LAME playback? I am about to announce this at a couple of other forums.

My tests have been extremely positive.  So far (with one of the more recent versions -- 142 I believe), I have not yet heard any pops or gaps on the albums I've listened to (Pink Floyd, Roger Waters, and Genesis.)  I'm extremely pleased with MC's performance in this regard.  It seems like the lame tag metadata really works to remove the gaps cleanly.

Is this your general reaction as well?  Have you heard ANY pops at song transitions lately?

Thanks,

Larry