Topic: Good news for interoperability with DRM (Read 4770 times)

JimH · « **on:** March 21, 2006, 12:43:04 pm »

The French National Assembly has passed a bill that may open up the barriers between Apple and Microsoft DRM. It still needs to pass the Senate. This is very good news for consumers.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060321/ap_on_bi_ge/france_itunes_challenge

hit_ny · « **Reply #1 on:** March 21, 2006, 01:31:30 pm »

Quote from: JimH on March 21, 2006, 12:43:04 pm

It still needs to pass the Senate

Anyone know when that happens ?

KingSparta · « **Reply #2 on:** March 21, 2006, 01:41:08 pm »

Quote

and others to share proprietary copy-protection technologies so that rivals can offer compatible services and players.

as a end user sounds good, but if I was a leader, I would think it sucks why would i want to spend millions on research and development just to give it away.

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** March 21, 2006, 01:54:35 pm »

As I understand it, they aren't giving away anything. It just would give companies like us the tools to convert from one DRM to another when needed.

KingSparta · « **Reply #4 on:** March 21, 2006, 02:05:45 pm »

I hear you.

So lets say france forces this issue.

Could not Apple make a version for france only?

Since any law in france would not effect the rest of the world. The US would need to also do the same to force apple to provide conversion tools.

hit_ny · « **Reply #5 on:** March 21, 2006, 02:13:30 pm »

Quote from: KingSparta on March 21, 2006, 02:05:45 pm

Could not Apple make a version for france only?

That's likely...if it comes to pass..

..is it possible currently to buy from a foreign iTunes shop ?

michel · « **Reply #6 on:** March 21, 2006, 03:16:34 pm »

The real goal of this law (DADVSI law) is not to promote interoperability but to forbid any use of p2p software even for legal use. The law doesn't give any indication about how to set this interoperability and this is only a delude for the opposants to the law.

In the real world, it is not realistic to hope Apple will break all its iTunes business model only to be compliant to a French law.

KingSparta · « **Reply #7 on:** March 21, 2006, 06:43:28 pm »

Quote

to be compliant to a French law.

I guess also, Apple does not need or have to do business in France.

And there users may see “Access Denied” Or “L'Accès A nié”

Myron · « **Reply #8 on:** March 21, 2006, 07:07:45 pm »

Quote from: hit_ny on March 21, 2006, 01:31:30 pm

Anyone know when that happens ?

According to Nightly Business Report on PBS, sometime in May.

Myron · « **Reply #9 on:** March 21, 2006, 07:15:15 pm »

Quote from: KingSparta on March 21, 2006, 02:05:45 pm

I hear you.

So lets say france forces this issue.

Could not Apple make a version for france only?

Since any law in france would not effect the rest of the world. The US would need to also do the same to force apple to provide conversion tools.

The report on Nightly Business Report (PBS) speculateed that Apple may simply pull out of France. The've sold over a billion tunes so far, so I don't think cutting off the French will hurt them that much.

Come to think of it, I'm surprised the French government hasn't put restrictions on how much French content Apple must provide as a percentage of the library.

KingSparta · « **Reply #10 on:** March 21, 2006, 07:46:27 pm »

Quote

Nightly Business Report (PBS) speculateed that Apple may simply pull out of France.

yes, it is a good threat.

the french will be setting on the side lines, again.

One day I would like to taste some Ice wine.

I seen a special on it once, think I would fall off the wagon one night a least.

Myron · « **Reply #11 on:** March 21, 2006, 08:09:51 pm »

Quote from: KingSparta on March 21, 2006, 07:46:27 pm

One day I would like to taste some Ice wine.

I seen a special on it once, think I would fall off the wagon one night a least.

Fear not, Eiswein is actually a German thing as far as I know. Never heard of a French Ice Wine. Not sure where you call home, but the Canadians make some pretty good ones.

http://www.ontariograpes.com/icewine.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_wine

GHammer · « **Reply #12 on:** March 21, 2006, 11:04:35 pm »

What of the EU rules? Can one state go against others in matters like this?
I foresee a long and protracted court and lobbying battle.

But, yeah, I'd just hang out the "Sorry" sign if I detected a French IP address. I don't >HAVE< to do anything unless I want to do business in France.

michel · « **Reply #13 on:** March 22, 2006, 01:34:06 am »

This (stupid) law is compliant with EUCD european directive. The DRM interoperability is the only good thing of this law but as I said it is not the real goal of the law and that does not seem applicable before several months (as it doesn't give any indication how to do it). But legalize interoperability of DRM means also legalize any kind of protection so if you buy a CD protected you cannot anymore protest if you cannot listen it in your car or your PC...

Be careful, this law (the part relative to p2p, not the part relative to DRM) is the result of the lobbying of Universal, Sony, BMG,... and others entities as SACEM (kind of french RIAA) so you can expect a tentative to do the same in others countries.

In this law any use of p2p software is forbidden even to download a legal content such as a linux distribution ! In this law interoperability of DRM is required but it is forbidden to crack a DRM even to play a legal content on a Linux machine.

Sorry for my bad english, I am french

glynor · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2006, 10:47:35 pm »

Quote from: Myron on March 21, 2006, 08:09:51 pm

Fear not, Eiswein is actually a German thing as far as I know. Never heard of a French Ice Wine. Not sure where you call home, but the Canadians make some pretty good ones.

http://www.ontariograpes.com/icewine.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_wine

I believe there is some Eiswein made in Alsace (which is part of France). Of course, if you go there you'd never know from the architecture (or culture really) that you're in France and not Germany...

As far as what michel said, that looks like a completely apt analysis to me as well. The entire law sadly now just looks like it's giving the SACEM exactly what they want. It definitevely criminalizes P2P (completely opposite the original law), and would force Apple to open up FairPlay. The RIAA (and it's European counterparts) hate Apple's FairPlay DRM because the dominance of the iPod prevents the labels from creating their own iTunes store where they (and only they) control pricing. They would, of course, quickly move to use their pricing power to "price out" Apple's iTunes Store offerings, afterwhich they could implement the tiered pricing scheme they wanted Apple to implement, and slowly inch-up overall prices.

It's a farce really. It would be nice for JRiver, but really terrible for consumers. I just hope the French Upper House isn't in the RIAA's pockets too. A much more consumer friendly approach is to simply not ban DRM-circumvention technology! That way, consumers who want to convert their proprietary formats, will be able to create and obtain tools to do so legally. Companies like JRiver can implement the features they want. But most people will keep buying songs online from whatever store offers the most benefit (ease of use, compatibility with hardware/software, and cost). It's also just allowing the free market to solve the consumer protection problem, whereas the French solution is more regulation. Why force Apple to open up the format, when if you need it to open up badly enough, someone will crack it.

jgreen · « **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2006, 09:10:14 am »

Quoting Glynor?

"It's also just allowing the free market to solve the consumer protection problem, whereas the French solution is more regulation. Why force Apple to open up the format. . ."

Er, Glynor, is that really you saying "free market"? Or have you been taken over by the Anti-Glynor? This doesn't sound like you--are you bearing the mark of the beast on your forehead?

Oh, wait, I see the key phrase: "Why force Apple. . ."

Regulation takes on a different look when they come to gore your sacred ox, doesn't it?

JimH · « **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2006, 09:16:31 am »

We stuck our oar in today:

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20060323005177&newsLang=en

jgreen · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:51:23 am »

jriver to the rescue!

New Vermaje · « **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:57:52 am »

Bonjour !

Message pour KingSparta

"Access Denied" => "Accès refusé" ... this is the good translation !

bye bye !

JimH · « **Reply #19 on:** March 23, 2006, 11:05:51 am »

Quote from: jgreen on March 23, 2006, 10:51:23 am

jriver to the rescue!

michel · « **Reply #20 on:** March 23, 2006, 12:33:39 pm »

Quote

We agree with the French position that if you buy a track from any service, you should be able to play it on any portable player

I agree with this position (not only on any portable player, but on any kind of player).

But curiously, with this same law, it becomes legal to sell protected CD such as you cannot play it on your PC or on your car !

In fact, I am pretty sure the interoperability will take a long time before to be effective because there is no will to do that, the real goal of the law is another: to stop all p2p activities.

Interoperability has been added in order to gain acceptance for a law very disputed.

glynor · « **Reply #21 on:** March 23, 2006, 12:58:13 pm »

Quote from: jgreen on March 23, 2006, 09:10:14 am

Quoting Glynor?

"It's also just allowing the free market to solve the consumer protection problem, whereas the French solution is more regulation. Why force Apple to open up the format. . ."

Er, Glynor, is that really you saying "free market"? Or have you been taken over by the Anti-Glynor? This doesn't sound like you--are you bearing the mark of the beast on your forehead?

Oh, wait, I see the key phrase: "Why force Apple. . ."

Regulation takes on a different look when they come to gore your sacred ox, doesn't it?

Nope. You just don't have my politics completely pegged. I'm pretty radically fiscally conservative (and very radically socially liberal). There are only a few places where I feel more government regulation helps matters (environment and civil rights), and even then I generally support "free market style" regulations where you encourage the market to solve the problems for you.

I like a lot of Apple's products, but I'm certainly no fanboy (I wear reality distortion field blockers). I hate a lot of Apple's business methods (making everything proprietary and locking-in consumers -- like the ADC connector. What was that all about?!?).

glynor · « **Reply #22 on:** March 23, 2006, 01:04:54 pm »

Quote

JRiver, believes that Apple's claim that the legislation would amount to "state-sponsored piracy" rings hollow, and that closed DRM systems are designed to protect market share.

Speak on brother!

The only way I disagree is in that I don't believe that this particular law is the right way to accomplish the goal. Why not let me or JRiver (or really Jon Lech Johansen) just circumvent the DRM? Apple would be free to change the DRM to break the crack (assuming their technology was flexible enough), and we'd be free to crack it again. It's not like the laws (or the DRM) stops the pirates from cracking it anyway (and if you think that you'll be able to get DMCA-style anti-circumvention laws passed and enforced in every country in the world you've drunk WAY too much of the RIAA's kool aid)...

My overriding political theme with these (and basically all issues) is freedom. If it doesn't hurt someone else (and I mean hurt them physically or personally, not break their business model) then it should be legal. At least that should be the default position, and there better be a darn good reason to change it. It's not the government's job to protect us from ourselves, nor is it the government's job to protect corporations.

glynor · « **Reply #23 on:** March 23, 2006, 01:41:17 pm »

Oh, and I wanted to say...

Nice hat Jim!

But what is that thing there that your charge is about to run over?

jgreen · « **Reply #24 on:** March 23, 2006, 03:14:10 pm »

If you zoom in 100X and apply special Hifalutin image-enhancement algorithms, you'll see it's the head of Steve Jobs.

glynor · « **Reply #25 on:** March 23, 2006, 04:10:38 pm »

Where's your Reality Distortion Field now Steve-O!?!

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Good news for interoperability with DRM (Read 4770 times)