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Author Topic: Feature Requests for Theater View  (Read 4815 times)

raym

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Feature Requests for Theater View
« on: November 04, 2006, 01:29:51 am »

Hi. Hopefully these suggestions are not pipe dreams. It would be great if at least some of them could be considered before MC12 development is closed out ::) ??

Here it goes...


Playing Now Navigation

[1a] The ability to move items around in Playing Now. A simple way to achieve this could be through the inclusion of 2 new menu items on the existing context menu, ie:

      | Add
      | Play
      | Move Up
      | Move Down
      | Remove
      | Cancel

Each time "Move Up/Down" is selected, the item is moved up or down the list one position at a time. To minimise the number of key presses required to move an item up or down several positions in the list, it would be good if the menu remained open and the last move command remained highlighted so that "Enter" could be pressed repeatedly.

[1b] A simple option to reverse the PLAY and ADD context menu items (as shown above). For some of us, this would serve 2 important purposes: (a) It would help prevent "happy fingers" from hitting enter on something accidently and blowing away a current Playing Now list and (b) it would make building a Playing Now playlist on the fly much easier for those of us who like to do this.

[1c] The ability to jump to playing now and back TO THE EXACT POINT YOU LEFT FROM -ie, as it was in MC9 and MC10. In MC12 you can jump to playing now, but you have to take the long route back.

[1d] An indicator or the like to show which items in your library are currently in Playing Now. This would be great to avoid doubling up PN items while building a playlist.


Playing Now Display Area

[2] The ability to display title, length, time remaining and other useful info in the bottom half of Playing Now when viewing DVD & VIDEO. Something similar to how track-info viz's work for audio. That way, you could toggle between fullscreen video playback and Playing Now to see this info as required. An opportunity to utilise IMDB lookups here would also be fantastic!


Basic Tagging

[3] The ability to perform basic tagging. MCE provides this through an on-screen phone keypad-like interface but perhaps some mechanism like Theater View's existing search facility could be used to select letters from a list and build words up that way.


Saving Playing Now Playlists

[4] The ability to save Playing Now playlists. The playlist name could just be given a simple date/time stamp but it would be perfect if you could name it to whatever you like (again, ala MCE). The method described in [3] could be re-used to achieve this perhaps.


Rip and Burn

[5] The ability to burn Playing Now content to CD/DVD. A posible solution for this could be achieved through some changes to the exisiting MCC_BURN command. If this command allowed me to pass my default burn options via command line and simply create the cd automatically based on Playing Now content, I would be able to add the function as a USEABLE custom menu item. As it stands today, MCC_BURN simply initiates the burn command in Standard View via the AW and requires far too much user interaction to be useable in Theater View. I'd like to be able to create a cd without having to leave the Theater View interface. 

[6] Likewise, the ability to rip a CD. Again, I'd be happy using the existing MCC_RIP command for this also if I just didn't have to leave Theater View and make a whole lotta key presses (which is difficult with just a remote!).


Others

[7] I'll mention this for completeness only as I'm sure this would be a lot of work: Full PVR and EPG integration.



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raym

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2006, 02:46:16 pm »

* bump *
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Matt

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2006, 08:51:27 am »

Thanks Ralf.

We've put a quite a bit of time into Theater View for version 12.  Any more big changes will likely be reserved for the next version.  We may be able to sneak in one or two of the simple ideas.

My personal take is that it doesn't make sense to recreate all functionality with a remote driven interface.  Computers aren't so ugly or scary that they need lipstick over everything.  I use a keyboard/mouse as one of my remotes at home so I can surf, email, game, and do anything else a computer can do.

Thanks for all your help on Interact.
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glynor

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2006, 08:56:05 am »

My personal take is that it doesn't make sense to recreate all functionality with a remote driven interface.

I tend to agree, generally.

However, I do really agree with Raym on points #1 and #7.  Full Playing Now management in Theater View would certainly be unwieldy, but the simple "move up/down" seems like a good, simple idea.

Number 7?  Well... I've made my feelings on that completely apparent.  I just think JRiver could do a better job than those other guys...

Oh, and "the next version"?  Notice, nobody seems willing to call it v13.   ;)
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zirum

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2006, 09:34:11 am »

Keeping it short, maybe a "next to play" at #1 also?
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Doof

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2006, 10:47:06 am »

While you may have put a lot of time into Theater View this time around, the end result isn't really much more than slapping it onto an animated layer which, all its really accomplished for me, is put me in the position of having to replace my entire HTPC in order to run it smoothly. There really haven't been any big useability enchancements.

I agree that not every function needs to be exposed in Theater View. However, I do think that some of the more basic playback needs (what Theater View is clearly designed for) could be met. Moving things around in Playing Now and saving Playlists comes to mind. It's a royal PITA to move around Theater View, adding songs to Playing Now (and since you can't re-order them you need to make sure you add them in the proper order). And then to lose the entire thing the next time you want to play something just sucks. I don't need the ability to name the playlist (although it would be nice), but saving it is really important.

I switched my HTPC to MC12 for one reason. OTTO. Knowing that I could update my collection on my main PC and that the HTPC would just keep up was a really nice selling point. Unfortunately, the new Direct3D interface will require me to upgrade my HTPC hardware. Even that wouldn't be so bad except that right now, MC doesn't want to auto-import MPL files over the network, so I'm STILL left with the task of having to retag all of my video files on the HTPC. I'm hoping that particular problem (or the inclusion of the xmp sidecars being discussed in another thread) will be worked out, because from where I'm standing right now, I'm not seeing any reason to stick with MC12 on my HTPC when doing so will require me to upgrade hardware with no real gain in useability in trade.
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raym

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2006, 04:42:14 pm »

My personal take is that it doesn't make sense to recreate all functionality with a remote driven interface. 

Thanks for the reply Matt. Please understand that I'm by no means suggesting that Theater View should "recreate all functionality". The features I've suggested are only a tiny subset of the overall power of MC but I believe they are key to the overall useability of Theater View.

I also appreciate that a lot of hard work's already gone into Theater View for 12 so if you can "sneak" in a couple of simple ideas that would be grand! Otherwise, I will wait for the next version!!!

Thanks again.
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JimH

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2006, 06:18:10 pm »

... the new Direct3D interface will require me to upgrade my HTPC hardware...
Doof,
Try upgrading the video card first.  It should be enough.
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Doof

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2006, 10:00:04 am »

Well, in my case, I know the video card is the problem, but in order to upgrade it I'll have to upgrade the motherboard as well.

So that's what I'm going to do. The performance problems leading me to the upgrade are beyond MC, though. I can't play HD content either.

But in MC11, I could run this thing at 720p on my HDTV and it ran fine. Once Theater View moved to Direct3D, that resolution was a bit much for that card (A GeForce MX 6xxx series) to handle. So I had to bump it down to 800x600. Theater View performs fine now, but it's not using my entire screen real estate which was nice. My main system can output a 1080p signal to the TV and it looks fantastic (GeForce 6800 GT), so basically that's what I'm going to do. But like I said, I want to upgrade this machine for other reasons as well.

But that still doesn't change the fact that there really haven't been any useability enhancements with Theater View in this version. All that really changed was that now we need an additional button mapped to access the context menu. I actually like this change, but it really hasn't done anything to make building playlists any easier.
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raym

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2006, 04:32:08 pm »

...but it really hasn't done anything to make building playlists any easier.

I think we're in the minority on that one Doof. I happen to agree with you 100%. I too find it harder than it should be to build playlists in Theater View -ie, too easy to blow away your current PN list etc...  but apparently most people don't use theater view in this way. Having said that, I believe the navigational improvements made in 12 have helped the situation somewhat so I havn't been complaining.

As I've suggested heaps of times before: If we had an option to switch the order of the PLAY and ADD menu items on the context menus. This would solve the problem easily!
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glynor

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2006, 04:54:05 pm »

Well, in my case, I know the video card is the problem, but in order to upgrade it I'll have to upgrade the motherboard as well.

Doof... What kind of motherboard is in the system that it can handle a GeForce 6-series card, but it can't be upgraded?  Is it onboard only with no AGP or PCIe slots?

BFG nVidia 7800GS AGP ($205 after $30 mail in rebate)

ATI x1650 Pro AGP Card ($126 after $20 rebate)

Sapphire ATI X850 Pro AGP ($139.99)

And PowerColor is going to be releasing an ATI X1950 Pro based AGP card and an ATI X1650XT AGP Card any day now, which will really be the best performance you'll be able to get on an AGP platform (and not too shabby for any platform).  Read Tech Report's X1950 review here.
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JimH

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2006, 05:16:04 pm »

raym and doof,
We'll try to tweak what we can.

Don't let go of Matt's left hind leg until we do.

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glynor

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2006, 05:20:40 pm »

Matt has hind legs?

Is that picture in his avatar actually him?

MC is being programmed by a dog?!?!   :o

(What the heck are those other companies doing then, if MC is the best player around and was programmed by a dog and his buddies!)

 ;D
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raym

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2006, 05:23:05 pm »

raym and doof,
We'll try to tweak what we can.

Don't let go of Matt's left hind leg until we do.



Thanks (as always) Jim.

PS - I too am astonished that MATT is a dog. Very intelligent indeed!
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Doof

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2006, 06:51:55 pm »

Doof... What kind of motherboard is in the system that it can handle a GeForce 6-series card, but it can't be upgraded?  Is it onboard only with no AGP or PCIe slots?

BFG nVidia 7800GS AGP ($205 after $30 mail in rebate)

ATI x1650 Pro AGP Card ($126 after $20 rebate)

Sapphire ATI X850 Pro AGP ($139.99)

And PowerColor is going to be releasing an ATI X1950 Pro based AGP card and an ATI X1650XT AGP Card any day now, which will really be the best performance you'll be able to get on an AGP platform (and not too shabby for any platform).  Read Tech Report's X1950 review here.

Well, the system is an old PII 600Mhz. It does have an AGP slot in it and I'm sure it could handle something better than what it has. But like I said, the performance problems I'm seeing aren't all video related, so I figure I might as well upgrade everything... inlcuding going with a PCIx card... like the 6800GT card that's in my current system... which would conveinently free me up to upgrade my main system with a 7xxx series. :D
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JimH

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2006, 07:03:57 pm »

I too am astonished that MATT is a dog. Very intelligent indeed!
There's a pretty good story by Mark Twain about this.

http://www.classicshorts.com/stories/frog.html

Andrew Jackson was the dog and he wouldn't let go.
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glynor

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2006, 08:56:47 pm »

Well, the system is an old PII 600Mhz.

Oh.  Nevermind.

Yeah.  That one needs an upgrade.  BTW, though, you want PCIe (PCI Express) not PCI-X, which is something else entirely (mostly for servers and workstations that need high-end RAID or FiberChannel cards).

Intel Core 2 Duo is the way to go right now (I'd look at the nVidia nForce 690i boards, but the i975 and the new i965 boards are good too).

AMD looks to have some very tasty stuff coming Q2 or 3 of next year though.  Intel has been much better with this generation (compared to the old NetBust crap), but AMD still tends to let you upgrade much more easily.  They don't switch memory technologies all the time for no reason (other than to sell more chipsets) and change their CPU socket dramatically with every new generation.  For example, they've already announced that their next generation AM3 socket processors will be backwards compatible with the current AM2 line's motherboards.  Some of their upcoming stuff looks very promising...
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Doof

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2006, 09:14:07 pm »

Yeah, I meant PCIe. I knew what I was talking about, I just can never remember which acronym to use. :P

I'm actually starting to wonder about this micro-ATX ASUS board I saw today with an onboard GForce 6150. I generally hate onboard video, but all it really has to do is drive Theater View, G-Force, and HD content at 1080p. Not sure if that video could handle that, though. Haven't found any good benchmarks that will answer that question definitively.  But it'd be a cheap route. I really don't feel the need to build some monster computer just to listen to music with. If I were going to go that route, I'd just upgrade my gaming system and retask its internals for the HTPC.
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glynor

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2006, 11:34:42 pm »

I think that'd likely be a very nice choice, especially if you can do it on the cheap!  Looking for a review like this one?

I don't know if that's the exact board your talking about, but it should be very, very similar.  The 6150/430 should handle 1080p just fine.  Slap one of these in there and you should be feeling fine like cherry wine (assuming you don't want to play Oblivion or F.E.A.R. on it).  Of course, one of these would work as well, but the 939 dual-core Optys are so nice and cheap...

And besides... If that board does have a PCIe 16x slot (the ASUS reviewed above does, and I'd be surprised if there was a 6150 out there without one) you can always just upgrade the graphics later (assuming you decide you do want to play Oblivion or F.E.A.R. on it).
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glynor

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2006, 11:47:20 pm »

My Opteron 165 in my HTPC is running at 2.5 Ghz right now and it wasn't hard at all.

Stock voltage, not running hot, just moved the Hyperthreading multiplier to 3x and brought up the HTT speed up to 280 MHz.  I put a divider on the RAM to keep it running at 210 MHz and it's rock-solid stable.  I'm sure if I played with it I could get it much higher (I booted to windows at 2.7 GHz on my first try but it wasn't stable)... I never played with the memory settings or the voltage or anything.  Took me all of an hour to get it to 2.5GHz (and most of that time was spent fighting with my USB RF Keyboard to get it to work in the BIOS).

But I've been lazy and dual-core 2.5 GHz Opteron is really fast enough for anything.  So, I'm running at this...

One other nice thing about the Opteron is that the included cooler is actually really nice.  I'm using a Zalman CNPS9500 now, but there's really no reason to get anything else.  It's easy to install and it's a good, copper HSF.  I'm actually using mine on one of my other boxes because I like it so much! 
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zirum

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2006, 01:59:15 am »

Hmm. I tested MC12 on my HTPC in the livingroom yesterday, and I didn't perform very well in theater view. In fact, all graphics where screwed up... :-\

Tried upgrading grapfics driver and directX (to 9c), but didn't do much. I used a quite old grafics, the matrox millenium G450, but I do it since i have an old tube 32" tv it's connected to. The SCART/RGB cable performs quite well on these tv's, at least on 2D and not video. Having some problems with the video performance for the time beeing...

Should I just give up on the Matrox and use a radeon card instead, to get the Theater view working again?
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glynor

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glynor

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2006, 10:11:59 am »

Should I just give up on the Matrox and use a radeon card instead, to get the Theater view working again?

Yeah.  MC12's theater view really requires a DirectX 9 capable video card.  There are plenty of good, and pretty cheap AGP video cards out there (I linked to some above, but you could probably even go cheaper and still be fine).
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zirum

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2006, 10:25:18 am »

Hate beeing fooked...

But since I love spendig bucks on new stuff, I guess i got out even... 8)
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glynor

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2006, 10:55:10 am »

Yeah... I do understand.  If you ever want to go to Vista, Aero is going to require the same thing.  Anything that can handle Aero Glass would (I would guess) be able to handle MC12's Theater View with little strain.  Another couple of cards on the very-low-end that'll probably be just fine...

XFX PVT73DUAL3 GeForce 7300GT 256MB AGP - $89.99 (after $30 rebate)

GECUBE GC-RX1300GA2-D3 Radeon X1300 256MB AGP - $72.99 (after $20 rebate)

DIAMOND X1300AGP256SB Radeon X1300 256MB AGP - $69.99 (after $25 rebate)

Of course, if you happen to be in the UK, you get hosed on the dollars to pounds conversion (meaning, they don't convert it and just charge you the same price in pounds).  You also have to be sure to actually dot the i's and cross the t's and get your rebate, or you might as well have gone with a low-midrange card instead...

Just to note, I haven't tested Theater View with a 7300 series or X1300 series card, so I can't guarantee that it'll perform well, but I'd guess you'll be fine based on my experience with older cards.  Of course, if your CPU is getting into the ancient category (Athlon non-XP or Pentium 3) you might have some issues that a video card can't fix!

If you don't want to worry at all, you could always just grab one of these, or one of these, and be done with it.   ;)
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Doof

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2006, 12:29:11 pm »

Damn. I didn't even know they were making 768MB video cards already. :P
 
And here I thought the 7800 series were top of the line.

I'm so out of touch these days.
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glynor

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2006, 12:47:47 pm »

ATI's R600 is coming out in January and will be available in either a 1GB or a 2GB model.   ;D

The 7800 GTX was so July 2005.
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raym

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2006, 05:54:25 pm »

raym and doof,
We'll try to tweak what we can.

I've added a new item to the original post based on this discussion yesterday:

A simple option to reverse the PLAY and ADD context menu items. For some of us, this would serve 2 important purposes: (a) It would help prevent "happy fingers" from hitting enter on something accidently and blowing away a current Playing Now list and (b) it would make building a Playing Now playlist on the fly much easier for those of us who like to do this.

Hopefully this will be straight forward enough to consider while Theater View "tweaks" are still occuring....

Thanks again.
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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2006, 06:01:26 pm »

raym and doof,
We'll try to tweak what we can.

Don't let go of Matt's left hind leg until we do.



there is also a thread of some lesser gods. maybe there are some thing s that could be tweaked to. http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=37098.0
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Griff

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2006, 10:04:45 pm »

Quote
Having said that, I believe the navigational improvements made in 12 have helped the situation somewhat so I havn't been complaining.

Same here.

Quote
I think we're in the minority on that one Doof. I happen to agree with you 100%. I too find it harder than it should be to build playlists

I build playlists all the time with another front end and its easy.

raym and doof, I agree 100% with you.

The Nav. change made me very happy, Thanks J-Team.

I have a request. (maybe raym can add it to his list?)

In MC9 and 10, you could jump to playing now and back "TO THE EXACT POINT  YOU LEFT FROM"

In MC11 and 12 you can jump to playing now, but you got to take the long route back.

So how about this:

When you zoom down to the FILE LEVEL, the song that is currently playing has a green

arrow displayed to the right.

Would it be possible to have a dot or a check mark or the MC emblem displayed to the right for Items

that are already in playing now.

I, like others, do nothing but ADD to playing now and this would help prevent dups.

Thanks


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Griff

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2006, 10:23:47 pm »

PS

Doof

I have the MSI k8ngm2-fid (6150 MB) with a 3500 in my htpc for a long time now. No prob. with it.

The k9 (am2) vers of this board is flackey, Im sending it back. MSI also pulled the BIOs for this board.

I ordered the Asus M2NPV-VM GF6150 AM2 today and should have it Monday.

My set only does 1080I, but my extra thick glasses with anti flicker has not arrived yet, so I run 740 x

480

If ya need to know anything about these boards, just yell.
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raym

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2006, 10:38:54 pm »

...I have a request. (maybe raym can add it to his list?)

Nice ideas Griff. I've been thinking about this too. I've added this to the list in the first post.
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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2006, 11:37:24 pm »

Nice ideas Griff. I've been thinking about this too. I've added this to the list in the first post.

Might want to reverse the order of Play and Add in your example menu in the first post to further emphasize the point :)
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rpalmer68

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2006, 01:09:44 am »

I like some of the new suggestions for Theater View.

I made several suggestions when 11.1 was about to be released and was told that they may be looked at for V12, so here they are again as a reminder to Matt our "development dog" (meant in the nicesest possible way!).

1) Currently the options for "Jump on play" for theater view are None, Playing Now or Full Screen, could these be changed to the same as the full user GUI (Tools/Options/General)? This way when I play a video file from Theater View I can have it automatically jump to full screen, but stay in playing now view for audio files.

2) When in the playing now view if playback is paused (or stopped) the green marker indicating the track stays there.  So if somebody (not familiar with MC) comes along and looks at the screen it's  bit confusing and hard for them to tell if the system is actually playing something (and no sound is coming out) or if in fact the music is paused/stopped. 
This gets even more confusing if you have more than one zone ( I have 4) and they are trying to determine if a zone is actually playing or not.

Can I suggest that either the green marker is hidden when playback is stopped/paused. Or even better change the marker to the universal "Paused" symbol if paused on a track and hide the symbol if stopped. This way a quick glance at the screen will tell you is the music is playing, paused or stopped.

3) Is it possible to implement the Tools/Locate/Album functionality into Theater View?

4) Can we have the abliity to delete files from theater view? ( I guess this should be an option that can be enabled/disabled from the options screen as not eveybody is going to want this). I use theater view to watch recorded TV shows, and need an easy way for the family to delete them after viewing the recording that will remove it from the HDD and database.


Cheers
Richard
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raym

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Re: Feature Requests for Theater View
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2006, 07:19:58 pm »

I like some of the new suggestions for Theater View.

I made several suggestions when 11.1 was about to be released and was told that they may be looked at for V12, so here they are again as a reminder to Matt our "development dog" (meant in the nicesest possible way!).

1) Currently the options for "Jump on play" for theater view are None, Playing Now or Full Screen, could these be changed to the same as the full user GUI (Tools/Options/General)? This way when I play a video file from Theater View I can have it automatically jump to full screen, but stay in playing now view for audio files.

2) When in the playing now view if playback is paused (or stopped) the green marker indicating the track stays there.  So if somebody (not familiar with MC) comes along and looks at the screen it's  bit confusing and hard for them to tell if the system is actually playing something (and no sound is coming out) or if in fact the music is paused/stopped. 
This gets even more confusing if you have more than one zone ( I have 4) and they are trying to determine if a zone is actually playing or not.

Can I suggest that either the green marker is hidden when playback is stopped/paused. Or even better change the marker to the universal "Paused" symbol if paused on a track and hide the symbol if stopped. This way a quick glance at the screen will tell you is the music is playing, paused or stopped.

3) Is it possible to implement the Tools/Locate/Album functionality into Theater View?

4) Can we have the abliity to delete files from theater view? ( I guess this should be an option that can be enabled/disabled from the options screen as not eveybody is going to want this). I use theater view to watch recorded TV shows, and need an easy way for the family to delete them after viewing the recording that will remove it from the HDD and database.


Cheers
Richard

These are great suggestions also Richard. I particularly like #1 and #2 and would hope that these are also achievable for MC12....
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