Topic: Would it be possible to add FFDShow support for television cards? (Read 4958 times)

Mastiff · « **on:** February 10, 2007, 01:46:07 pm »

That would solve my biggest problem about not being able to do deinterlacing for my ATI All In Wonder. Is this possible? I know that ChrisTV does this, but I would like to keep everything MC.

Mastiff · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2007, 02:57:07 am »

Eh...does it help if I beg? Mastiffs are proud dogs, but not to proud to beg for a treat!

Alex B · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2007, 04:24:48 am »

I don't know if FFDShow would be possible to integrate with the TV tuner output. Perhaps Yaobing can answer this.

I can see that the TV tuner options > Advanced Properties have an option for using a deinterlace filter. However this option is grayed out when the filter selection window opened MC. I have installed DScaler with its deinterlace filters but these are not available in MC. What filter would work with MC?

Mastiff · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2007, 04:28:29 am »

It's not the filter, it's the TV chip. It only works with certain Brooktree chips, like what you find in cheap cards like WinTV FM, PCTV Rave and such. That's why it's greyed out. It should be possible to integrate FFDShow since ChrisTV has been able to do it. But ChrisTV is a rather expensive program, with a lot of PVR stuff I have no need for, and besides it hasn't got the level control over Aspect Ratios that I need, and that MC has.

Alex B · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2007, 05:18:05 am »

I have a basic Brooktree based card (Hercules Smart TV Nicam stereo, BT848 & a Philips tuner).
Perhaps it is too "cheap" if it does not have this option...

If you had a Brooktree based card you could try using DScaler as a video tuner. I have to admit that I watch my TV tuner mostly directly with DScaler. It starts the TV tuner in a couple of seconds (MC takes about an minute or so), changes channels immediately (MC is slower) and has great filter and aspect ratio options. Most likely MC's slowness is related to my configuration somehow, but I have no idea what I should try to change.

However, for me, all this is going to be ancient history after August 31. Finland is going to be digital only after that. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television_in_Europe#Finland). I can see that you Norwegians are not going change as soon. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television_in_Europe#Norway)

Mastiff · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2007, 05:22:17 am »

No, we're going digital in a few years. But that doesn't change anything for me because I have a digital dish, and that's where I get mainly my signals from. Then I send them as both RF (antenna signals) and compoisite to the TV cards. My problem is that I need something that doesn't create a lag in the kitchen because it's so close to the living room TV.

And if you don't have deinterlacing as an option you could try changing the color space. That may be your problem. I think MC's deinterlacing supports your card. If you have downloaded the deinterlace.ax from MC's FTP and registered it, that is. You need to do that first.

Alex B · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2007, 05:53:04 am »

Quote

My problem is that I need something that doesn't create a lag in the kitchen because it's so close to the living room TV.

Hmm... Actually, I don't think my TV card has any kind of lag. We have an old standard analog TV set in our upstairs living room. That room has also our old "audiophile" stereo system. Quite often I feed the analog TV audio from the PC to the stereo system and have the TV speakers (that output audio from the TV set's internal tuner) on at the same time. Surely I would have noticed an echo effect.

This may be because the TV card uses an external audio cord that goes to the soundcard line input and the soundcard driver/control panel outputs the audio signal diretly to the line out without using any system level audio drivers. (I have a Terratec DMX6 fire 24/96 on this PC)

Quote

And if you don't have deinterlacing as an option you could try changing the color space. That may be your problem. I think MC's deinterlacing supports your card. If you have downloaded the deinterlace.ax from MC's FTP and registered it, that is. You need to do that first.

Thanks, I'll check this one out.

Mastiff · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2007, 06:21:20 am »

This is going pretty far off topic, but still: Regular TV cards doesn't create a lag, but the picture quality is just not good enough for me. A Radeon All In Wonder looks good when deinterlaced properly and doesn't have a lag at all when used with MC (which can't as of now deinterlace it, which is why I would like FFDShow support), and my WinTV PVR USB2 looks very good, but those PVR cards always has a lag.

Mastiff · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2007, 06:54:42 am »

If there is something that can deinterlace in MC for the All In Wonder, I would be extatic! But from what I heard from Yaobing, there's nothing that does that. Anyway, just think how cool it would be to be able to do what ChrisTV does. I have a test version of it (won't buy it because it's expensive, has a lot of stuff I don't need, has too little AR control and I want MC to do everything on those two computers, so everything's completely identical for the family), and tweaking the TV image with FFDShow really works wonders!

glynor · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2007, 09:33:25 am »

SageTV has FFDSHOW support as well, but doesn't work with the All In Wonder cards. Still, SageTV can handle using FFDSHOW as it's decoder filter well. They just refuse to support the "cheapo end" ATI stuff. Works fine with the ATI Theater 550 Pro cards though...

Can't drive it through DScaler somehow?

Mastiff · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2007, 12:50:36 pm »

But isn't the ATI Theater 550 Pro a PVR card with the blasted delay? And no, dScaler only supports Brooktree, like current MC deinterlacing.

glynor · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2007, 02:46:39 pm »

Quote from: Mastiff on February 13, 2007, 12:50:36 pm

But isn't the ATI Theater 550 Pro a PVR card with the blasted delay?

Delay?

It has a hardware MPEG-2 encoder (as opposed to the software one used for the AIW Rage Theater 200 chips). Not sure what you mean about a delay...

The PVR software often introduces a small buffering delay. For example, I use BeyondTV, and with it you're never really watching "live" TV, but it's delayed by about 3 seconds. This is a function of the software though, not the hardware (I'm sure the hardware MPEG encoding adds a minuscule delay, measured in milliseconds, but it'd be far less than anything you'd have with a software encoding of any type).

I really like my Sapphire 550 pro encoder card. It works great, doesn't have the retarded DRM crap of the newer chips, and has very nice quality (and it was only about $65US when I bought it almost a year ago)!

Mastiff · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2007, 03:22:12 pm »

Aha. OK, I thought it was in the hardware of that card. I know that PVR software induces delay, but I also know that the Hauppauge PVR products (of which I have tried several, and I use a WinTV PVR USB2 in the bedroom, where the delay doesn't matter) all have a delay in hardware that you can't escape. You can set it to "Live Preview" in the registry, but that only decreases the delal, it doesn't remove it. Have you tried this 550 card with MC, does it look good (is it deinterlaced?), and finally have you tried to compare it running in MC with the audio of a regular TV so you know if it's delay free with MC? If it is I have no problem buying it.

glynor · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2007, 03:42:03 pm »

Quote from: Mastiff on February 13, 2007, 03:22:12 pm

Have you tried this 550 card with MC, does it look good (is it deinterlaced?), and finally have you tried to compare it running in MC with the audio of a regular TV so you know if it's delay free with MC? If it is I have no problem buying it.

To answer your questions in order...

No. Not applicable since the first was no. And, no.

I use BeyondTV for ALL of my TV watching and recording. With BTV and the ATI/Cyberlink decoder, and my X1900XT's hardware deinterlacing turned on, the output was beautiful (I say "was" because it's not hooked up to that computer and display anymore).

However, I don't have a TV directly hooked up to my DirecTV box, and I certainly don't care about the delay (I think it's been probably about 5 months since I actually watched anything "live" at home). I don't use MC because it can't control the channels on my external DirecTV receiver, and I don't have standard cable (and I'm out in the boonies in the US so I don't get good over-air reception at all without an expensive antenna). Even when I watch sports, I tend to pause the game for at least 15-20 minutes to give myself a good "commercial or half-time skipping buffer" (and the last time I think I watched a major sporting event at home was probably the World Cup -- I'm not your average American male).

That said... I can check the delay at least for you I think (it'd only take a coax cable I think) I'm not really able to check the deinterlacing anymore though. Since I reconfigured my living room, and my HTPC, the only display the computer that contains the 550 pro card is connected to anymore is a regular old interlaced TV (a big one, but an interlaced standard-def one). No progressive display at all connected, and it's gonna stay that way until I save my pennies enough to grab the Westinghouse 1080p LCD panel I have my eye on... It looks nice, but that doesn't really tell you anything!

Yaobing · « **Reply #14 on:** February 15, 2007, 06:10:55 pm »

I am not completely sure, but I think it may work (after I add some code). When I have time I will experiment with it. Generally speaking I think adding custom filters to TV is a good idea.

Mastiff · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2007, 09:20:23 am »

That I would really appreciate! Just let me know, and I'll alpha/betatest!

Mastiff · « **Reply #16 on:** May 08, 2007, 04:29:55 pm »

I'm still waiting...

JimH · « **Reply #17 on:** May 08, 2007, 04:34:41 pm »

Look behind you.

Mastiff · « **Reply #18 on:** May 08, 2007, 04:36:50 pm »

On the bathroom wall? ?

JimH · « **Reply #19 on:** May 08, 2007, 04:41:27 pm »

Funny.

12.0.226 (5/8/07)

1. NEW: TV has an option to use FFDShow video decoder for post processing.
7. NEW: Added option to use FFDShow video decoder for post processing in DVD playback.

Mastiff · « **Reply #20 on:** May 08, 2007, 04:44:01 pm »

Sorry, that was probably too much information...

You mean that this is gonna be in the next build, coming out later today? Fantastic! Has to be some kind of ESP! Thank you very much!

JimH · « **Reply #21 on:** May 08, 2007, 05:55:50 pm »

Mr. Mastiff,
It's on the beta board. You should have access.

Mastiff · « **Reply #22 on:** May 09, 2007, 02:06:01 am »

Oops... Silly me! I hadn't been there for a while and forgot all about it! Anyway, thank you very much! I'm gonna test it tonight (my time) when my kids are rejoicing in their newly won kickboxing belts. (Testing today.) I'll give my feedback in the beta thread!

MrHaugen · « **Reply #23 on:** May 09, 2007, 06:13:04 am »

I can't wait to test this out! Hopefully I can leave Zoom Player behind and go MC only. Not that ZP was a bad program at ALL, but it's good to have all in one "box". Thanks to you all!

Mastiff. Er det lite håp for se siste artikkel i guiden din (NetRemote)?

Mastiff · « **Reply #24 on:** May 09, 2007, 02:03:07 pm »

Ja da, den kommer ganske snart, men i en annen serie. Jeg har et annet prosjekt på gang...but if I told you, I would have to kill you...

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Author Topic: Would it be possible to add FFDShow support for television cards? (Read 4958 times)