Topic: IMPORTANT: Vista copying bug -- stalls, etc. (Read 6398 times)

JimH · « **on:** March 28, 2007, 12:09:45 pm »

Thanks to the Register for this (via engadget.com)

A Vista bug causes pauses and slow behavior in copying, moving, and deleting files.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/26/vista_copying_bug/

vine-au · « **Reply #1 on:** March 28, 2007, 05:36:57 pm »

well that just answered by my question on whether to push the CONFIRM PURCHASE button.
I'll be waiting a few more months to upgrade.

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #2 on:** March 29, 2007, 12:57:14 am »

it only affects a handful of people, only on certain hardware and M$ has a hotfix available.

Don't you think you are overreacting a little?

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** March 29, 2007, 07:10:42 am »

Quote from: InflatableMouse on March 29, 2007, 12:57:14 am

it only affects a handful of people, only on certain hardware and M$ has a hotfix available.

Define "handful". Even if it's just 5%, we would see the symptoms reported here several times a day. It's a fairly long thread on the Microsoft board that's linked from the register article. And the hotfix isn't on MS's web site.

We've seen an unusual number of odd reports lately that could be explained by this bug.

glynor · « **Reply #4 on:** March 29, 2007, 09:22:32 am »

Quote from: InflatableMouse on March 29, 2007, 12:57:14 am

it only affects a handful of people, only on certain hardware and M$ has a hotfix available.

Not quite...

I've looked and I can't find any reference to what specific "certain hardware" that the issue applies to. However, quite a few of the people posting on the TechNet thread mention that they're using Dells and other machines from major OEMs. So, if that "certain hardware" is the Intel X965 or x975 chipset, then that's a huge problem. That's like saying "it only affects you if you have a hard drive". What hardware specifically have you found evidence that this issue is linked to? It doesn't appear from the KB article and all the info I've found on the issue that Microsoft is even totally sure what's going on.

Plus... The Hotfix is only available by asking Microsoft for it. There's no direct download, and it's not so simple to install, and it is not recommended for general consumption (essentially beta). That's not a "fix". More importantly though, it only applies to a subset of the issues reported. It purports to correct issues when copying to/from a network location. Many people on the TechNet thread are reporting the issue even when moving to/from the same physical disc (as simple rename function). Some people have reported that the hotfix corrected all of their issues, and some people have reported that it has not.

KingSparta · « **Reply #5 on:** March 29, 2007, 12:54:21 pm »

there was a link on the thread (for the fix)

http://hotfix.xable.net/download/index.php?dir=Language%20Neutral/Vista/
[ UNVERIFIED -- could be dangerous. --JimH ]

Or is this something else?

glynor · « **Reply #6 on:** March 29, 2007, 01:04:43 pm »

Quote from: KingSparta on March 29, 2007, 12:54:21 pm

there was a link on the thread (for the fix)

http://hotfix.xable.net/download/index.php?dir=Language%20Neutral/Vista/
[ UNVERIFIED -- could be dangerous. --JimH ]
is this not the fix on microsoft?

That copy of the fix does appear to be legitimate (according to people posting in the thread), but it is not the sanctioned copy from Microsoft. Microsoft is only giving it out if you request it (via the instructions given in the KB article I linked to above).

That "Hotfix site" is a site where users can re-post (illegally) the hotfixes that they receive from Microsoft by jumping through the annoying hoops that Microsoft requires for these "beta" hotfixes, so that other people can download and use them without jumping through the same hoops. So, you're trusting not only that non-Microsoft site, but the specific user that uploaded the particular hotfix.

Not something I'd really do on a machine I care about!

The link you posted to the Microsoft Download site is something else. The KB Article in question is: 931770

benn600 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 29, 2007, 11:59:02 pm »

I've been suffering from this forever. Each time I rip a DVD, I have to rip it to my main hdd. Then, to move it to my server, I have to initiate the move from the server or it's super slow. Copying from Vista directly is horribly slow...but like I said, I can get good transfers if I actually start the transfer from the server end.

benn600 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 30, 2007, 12:00:30 am »

Excellent point...my words exactly.

Quote

"I simply can not believe that I updated to a new computer and put windows Vista on it to find that it's not even capable of moving and deleting files in an efficient manner," one disaffected user posted in the Microsoft forum. "Microsoft must be kidding! The most basic of features that I use all the time is a slow train wreck." ®

If I'm not mistaken, I'm running the 965 (micro ATX). Wonder if a separate PCI ethernet card would fix it. I might try it if I have an open slot.

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #9 on:** March 30, 2007, 03:52:15 am »

I'm not denying this is a problem, but 1) many people scream on a forum while in reality they don't have that specific issue 2) people with a problem scream 10x louder than those who don't and 3) people scream multiple times about the same issue and some even under different credentials only to get attention.

So how many copies of Vista have been sold? 20 million? 5% means one million. Do the forum discussions reflect that amount? I think there is too much guessing and speculation to accurately say anything about numbers.

Now lets rationalize. people scream death and murder over this, because its the most basic of basic features of an OS and its not working properly. Fair enough. So, deleting a shortcut can take 30 seconds. Does it render your computer useless for those 30 seconds? No. Can you continue doing something else? Yes. Except for a dialog box on your screen for 30 seconds there is absolutely nothing serious happening. No corruption, no harm. Just a box that you can simply ignore and continue your work.

Now if this issue is really so serious as people claim on those forums, then what do you call it if your pc blue screens when you cancel the copy, or if it renders your pc useless for that period of time. The way I see it currently, people are massively overreacting and the whole thing is blown up to extremes beyong reasonable proportion.

Yes it is an issue. Get over it. The sun is shining (over here at least

)

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #10 on:** March 30, 2007, 05:24:03 am »

Quote from: InflatableMouse on March 30, 2007, 03:52:15 am

I'm not denying this is a problem, but 1) many people scream on a forum while in reality they don't have that specific issue 2) people with a problem scream 10x louder than those who don't and 3) people scream multiple times about the same issue and some even under different credentials only to get attention.

So how many copies of Vista have been sold? 20 million? 5% means one million. Do the forum discussions reflect that amount? I think there is too much guessing and speculation to accurately say anything about numbers.

Now lets rationalize. people scream death and murder over this, because its the most basic of basic features of an OS and its not working properly. Fair enough. So, deleting a shortcut can take 30 seconds. Does it render your computer useless for those 30 seconds? No. Can you continue doing something else? Yes. Except for a dialog box on your screen for 30 seconds there is absolutely nothing serious happening. No corruption, no harm. Just a box that you can simply ignore and continue your work.

Now if this issue is really so serious as people claim on those forums, then what do you call it if your pc blue screens when you cancel the copy, or if it renders your pc useless for that period of time. The way I see it currently, people are massively overreacting and the whole thing is blown up to extremes beyong reasonable proportion.

Yes it is an issue. Get over it. The sun is shining (over here at least )

Its quite chillly here today. It was a really nice day on Monday, but it seems to have changed it's mind!

benn600 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 30, 2007, 09:07:56 am »

While I'm copying files from Vista, it renders my network ability unusable. Everything stops or slows to a crawl.

mlefebvre · « **Reply #12 on:** March 30, 2007, 05:26:58 pm »

Well, I bravely tried the fix to see if it would solve the problem I have with MC stalling when it's building a full cache for my iPod.... No luck. MC still stalls. This time after 1800 files out of 37,000 or so.

Michel.

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2007, 02:13:53 am »

Uninstall it if it doesn't fix what you tried to fix. These kind of hotfixes have not been subjected to extensive testing and may introduce another unwanted issue. That is one of the reasons the hotfix is not available from M$ to the general public.

mlefebvre · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2007, 06:25:17 am »

Yup. It's gone...

johnnyboy · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2007, 08:37:53 am »

Quote from: InflatableMouse on March 30, 2007, 03:52:15 am

I'm not denying this is a problem, but 1) many people scream on a forum while in reality they don't have that specific issue 2) people with a problem scream 10x louder than those who don't and 3) people scream multiple times about the same issue and some even under different credentials only to get attention.

So how many copies of Vista have been sold? 20 million? 5% means one million. Do the forum discussions reflect that amount? I think there is too much guessing and speculation to accurately say anything about numbers.

Now lets rationalize. people scream death and murder over this, because its the most basic of basic features of an OS and its not working properly. Fair enough. So, deleting a shortcut can take 30 seconds. Does it render your computer useless for those 30 seconds? No. Can you continue doing something else? Yes. Except for a dialog box on your screen for 30 seconds there is absolutely nothing serious happening. No corruption, no harm. Just a box that you can simply ignore and continue your work.

Now if this issue is really so serious as people claim on those forums, then what do you call it if your pc blue screens when you cancel the copy, or if it renders your pc useless for that period of time. The way I see it currently, people are massively overreacting and the whole thing is blown up to extremes beyong reasonable proportion.

Yes it is an issue. Get over it. The sun is shining (over here at least )

Well I've seen several of those lovely blue screens as well so combine that with my slow file transfers and am I allowed to scream and shout?

Vista has a few nice new features (their slide shows being the one I'm most currently enjoying although its nothing worth the $$$$ it costs) but its not fool proof, virus proof, the rock solid unsinkable ship they'd like to claim.

Instead I'd say it's Titanic - all big and pretty and just waiting for the right accident to come its way and sink all the hype around it.

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2007, 12:23:10 pm »

Quote from: johnnyboy on March 31, 2007, 08:37:53 am

Well I've seen several of those lovely blue screens as well so combine that with my slow file transfers and am I allowed to scream and shout?

I never said that

But I might be able to help. Do you have the data (the dump info, IRQL_NOT EQUAL_OR_LESS_THAN, 0x0000007F etc). Are they always the same or different codes? Reproducable or random? Does it happen with a clean install as well (nothing else installed) or does it come after installing some other stuff? let's take it offline or to another thread if you like some help with these BSOD's.

Quote from: johnnyboy on March 31, 2007, 08:37:53 am

Vista has a few nice new features (their slide shows being the one I'm most currently enjoying although its nothing worth the $$$$ it costs) but its not fool proof, virus proof, the rock solid unsinkable ship they'd like to claim.

Nothing is fool proof except the fool himself, virus proof is impossible without a virus scanner (and it comes with none) so provide one for your self if you think you need it. I don't need one

So far its more stable than XPSP2 and my experience is its much more responsive under heavy load. Memory management is much much better and (from what I can tell) is in function similar Linux.

I can't help but wonder did you evaluate it before buying it and did it show those issues during evaluation?

Quote from: johnnyboy on March 31, 2007, 08:37:53 am

Instead I'd say it's Titanic - all big and pretty and just waiting for the right accident to come its way and sink all the hype around it.

That's what happened with Windows ME if you ask me (boy was that bad or what?!?). I am pretty sure that won't happen with Vista, M$ will make sure of that.

benn600 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2007, 05:33:16 pm »

The best forums on the web are ones where people can speak their mind, offer their opinion, and not get angry at others for their worries and distress.

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #18 on:** April 01, 2007, 02:02:53 am »

Hey! That's a 1000 posts Benn! Congrats!

I take it you mean my last comment? I don't get angry and I don't get offended. I may be strong in voicing my opinion but I will always respect someone else. I also offered my help. Wouldn't do that if I was angry.

But, I'm sorry if it sounded different, I didn't mean it to be anything else but friendly and helpful. Posts don't always carry the words the way they are meant (at least for me). If you are referring to the fool's comment I didn't mean anyone in particular.

newsposter · « **Reply #19 on:** April 02, 2007, 12:15:06 am »

On top of this, there is a bug in XP/Server2003 and Vista SMP/dual core support that pretty much cripples those really cool multiple core processors y'all have been snapping up.

A working and fully tested fix was released in the past two months tuesday patch sets, but to actually enable the fix you need to manually edit your boot.ini file with a new boottime switch.

benn600 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 02, 2007, 12:41:01 am »

I just checked and it appears that the post I made above,

Quote

The best forums on the web are ones where people can speak their mind, offer their opinion, and not get angry at others for their worries and distress.

lol. Now I'm reading the two below it. Wow, I didn't even notice it but InflatableMouse did! I just find it interesting that my 1000th post dealt with a topic I've never considered before--telling other forum members to be a little calmer.

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #21 on:** April 02, 2007, 06:51:05 am »

So I take it your post was not a direct response to mine?

Actually I was about to PM you to clear this up

benn600 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 02, 2007, 10:18:07 am »

The great thing about a forum like this is that it shows the threads your interacting on. Most forums do this anyway... But, it allows you to see at a glance which ones your participating in and which of those have new posts. The advantage of this system means that users are somewhat less likely to post to a thread they are not interested in. The moment they make one post, they are plagued with that little I'm Participating Here icon. So, why would you want to participate in a thread until you were genuinely interested in the content?

Just pretend I never said anything. I'm not that concerned...I just thought I'd say something a little different to keep people thinking.

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #23 on:** April 02, 2007, 12:18:31 pm »

Cool

KingSparta · « **Reply #24 on:** April 06, 2007, 02:21:21 pm »

Vista sounds more like a San francisco treat

From What I read the problems and all with Vista, it was not ready.

And this is why IT's don't run out and buy the latest and greatest, or install all the latest Microsoft fixes AKA: so called "hotfix" that may fix and then brake other things.

Listening to: 'Start Me Up' from 'Forty Licks (Disc 2)' by 'Rolling Stones' on Media Center 12

benn600 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 07, 2007, 12:14:52 am »

I am on my college's technology committee and at our last meeting, we were discussing the atrocious software that we and the staff have to use. The big issue I see is that when you are the "best" or most powerful...or best known, you are automatically in the lead. We all agreed that the systems in place now essentially don't work. The staff can't even do things they need to do. And students use this crappy thing called iCampus. It kind of works...functionality isn't terrible, but user interface and general appearance are despicable.

I don't like it how these huge companies (iCampus costs tens of thousands of dollars a year) get lots of money for crap that the open source community can beat. Too bad good programmers who actually enjoyed making school and learning management software don't do more of this work. I have a feeling that the programmers involved are there to do just what they have to do and get their paycheck. People need to be passionate about their work or it will be bare bones and minimalistic in nature.

Edit: lol, forgot my main point. I see Windows Vista almost like this. Yes, the programmers are really smart. But, I almost wonder if some of them really aren't that passionate about their positions. The people at Apple seem to really care about making amazing, nearly flawless products. They are more passionate. The employees of Apple are probably sucked into the companies own marketing...lol. They themselves want to have the best mp3 player, the iPod, and they want it to be the best for them (and therefore the world).

Valisystem · « **Reply #26 on:** April 08, 2007, 12:40:07 pm »

Install Vista on a new computer without any other software and without any peripheral hardware. It runs quickly and would never crash. It wouldn't do very much, but it's solid.

It's got a few bugs that are really, really noticeable, but it seems unfair to conclude that it wasn't well designed or thought out. (The slow copying bug is one; I'm wrestling with a problem saving files to a network share. http://www.bruceb.com/news/2007_04_01_archive.html#135466031403056544.) Personally I give the designers a lot of credit; there's a lot of security-related changes under the hood, doing their job quietly.

Benn600 hits the big issue. There's a huge amount of badly written software and badly designed hardware out there. Not only are programs badly designed and written by themselves, all too many programs and drivers interfere with each other in subtle ways, leading to a wild array of problems that occur on one system but can't be reproduced on another.

On top of that, too many manufacturers act as if they're caught by surprise by the baby steps in Vista toward user security - UAC, moving data out of Program Files, and the like - and many of them aren't dealing with it well.

It's a frustrating time to run a PC, and downright maddening to provide support.

runemail · « **Reply #27 on:** April 09, 2007, 05:27:17 am »

I have installed Vista on 3 computers, my biggest problem is and have always been the nvidia display drivers. they SUCK!

I have a 7600gs With Vista x64 on my workstation, and a 6600gt on another computer with Vista x86. The display drivers crashes a couple of times every day! Xvid encoded videos looks really bad and blocky, unless played back with windows Media player engine.

I have Vista with radeon x1250 and it runs lika dream, 100% stable. It renders every format nicely and even HD-dvd playback is spotless.

vine-au · « **Reply #28 on:** April 17, 2007, 07:47:05 am »

Well I bought and installed Vista (got it super cheap through ebay from the states - legot version, no funny business) And I'm more than happy with it so far. As stated yeah the nVIDIA drivers are terrible and crash a lot, but Vista is smart enough to not BSOD, and recovers nicely without any side effects.
I had to do some forum searching for a few drivers (onboard sound drivers for mu A8N-SLI) and my M-Audio Delta44 card is innoperable for now until compatible drivers are released.
Other than that it's been great, and I havnt had the slow file copy bug, though im running the nForce4 chipset so...
I think it's a very solid OS that will only get better as developers get off their butts and release drivers. money well spent imo

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #29 on:** April 18, 2007, 01:13:54 am »

See here for a fix that *might* help you get your m-audio drivers to work under vista.

I'm sure there is a problem with the nvidia drivers under vista but it hasn't bothered me. 2 machines, one 32bit ultimate with 6600GT and a 64bit with 6200TC. Zero problems with the drivers.

In fact I have never had a problem at all with nvidia. The one ATI card (9800 pro) I had I dumped after a month or two because I believe ATI has the worst software in the world.

vine-au · « **Reply #30 on:** April 18, 2007, 04:05:52 am »

thanks Inflatable - didnt work with my Delta44, have to wait for Vista drivers

benn600 · « **Reply #31 on:** April 22, 2007, 09:55:54 am »

So, it's been a little while and I am getting real sick of this. I spent almost five hours on my speech powerpoint I'll be giving Monday, 10 slides, and I'd say it took 10% longer because of all the issues with Vista. At the start of it all, it was worse, but it got a little better over time.

I didn't make a normal powerpoint, either. I actually used Photoshop and made full slide images which just fade to eachother. This allowed me to use all the photoshop magic, especially transparency, which is everywhere. All text is above a rounded corner box which is at ~70% transparency. I hope to impress the audience. The speech is on tattoos and I used almost 20 unique, high resolution pictures, so it should be an incredible sight. Now to practicing delivery!

But is there a fix yet? You've got to be kidding me if Microsoft thinks it's okay to overlook this. I paid them $160! That is many times the average price of most software I ever buy! They need to be getting this vital issue fixed immediately. I really think I may consider switching back to XP. XP was quite stable and I was really used to it and all its placements for things. The control panel freaks me out. They renamed a lot of things, like add remove programs!

jffcurt · « **Reply #32 on:** April 28, 2007, 07:00:27 am »

Not that this is going to help anyones problems but I'm running Vista 32 on a PC I built to use in my theatre room. I've also got it installed on an Acer Ferrari Laptop I've had for a couple of years. I haven't noticed any of these problems but knowing my luck since I read this post something will happen. Anyways I also have a MAC Mini in my bedroom and I'm using it with my plasma. To get to the point I installed Vista on the MAC using Parallels and don't even use Leopard or Panther or Tiger or whatever it is anymore. So I must be happy...... ATI is on my **** list big time. Talk about dragging their feet upgrading drivers. I use a TV Wonder USB 2.0 tuner and they still don't have Vista drivers for it. But you know what? Media Center 12 works with it. Not the greatest but that's another post. Oh I do also have a Nvidia 6800 and it has stopped working several times with Vista and like you said it does recover quickly and almost unnoticeably. Cheers!

GHammer · « **Reply #33 on:** April 28, 2007, 01:07:16 pm »

Anyone tried this to see if it takes care of your network copying problems?

Code: [Select]

netsh int tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled
You need to execute the command from an elevated command window (Run as Administrator)

ThoBar · « **Reply #34 on:** June 10, 2007, 10:30:49 pm »

We have been trialling Vista here recently and ...

Quote

netsh int tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled

has apparently helped quite a bit... as in copying works now.

C.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: IMPORTANT: Vista copying bug -- stalls, etc. (Read 6398 times)