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[NickM]

Just back from a non-internet connected trip and read at great length the new Theatre View discussions…

A thought; it appears that some of the comments and suggestions, whilst very well meaning & relevant, are misdirected.  The reason for this is just the way in which people use the various interfaces the MC has.

I would suggest that “Theatre View” is something optimised JUST for remote controls.

I would assume that use of a mouse infers proximity to a screen, and the use of smaller fonts, dialog boxes, scroll bars is acceptable.

I would assume that use of keyboards infers that the user switches between “Standard View” and anything else just for interface convenience.

And what on earth is “”Big screen”?  If I press this button, will my monitor suddenly enlarge?

[JimH]

I would suggest that “Theatre View” is something optimised JUST for remote controls.

Our challenge is to make it work for several scenarios:
1.  Keyboard and mouse
2.  Keyboard only
3.  Mouse only
4.  Remote
5.  Touch screen

Is that all?  Maybe.  What about controlling with a cell phone?  That's probably coming.  So... four arrow keys and an enter key should work.

I sometimes think we should separate these cases into two or more groups and ask a user to choose which group they're in.  But I also think we're pretty close to having it working well in all the above.

[Mr ChriZ]

If you buy a Windows Media Center machine, a fairly regular
setup is a remote control and a wireless keyboard designed for your living room
with some kind of tablet system for a mouse cursor if necessary.

This is what I'm aiming to have once I get some more money together.

Targetting solely at remote controls causes issues, since remote
controls aren't so good at typing letters in for searching.
When you've got a fairly large media library searching is a necessity,
which you don't get on DVD/CDplayers since they can only play
what you put in them, and the searchings done when you get the CD out of the
cupboard.

Standard view doesn't really meet my criteria here because the screens to
far away to see what i'm clicking, and also too low resoloution in the case
of a TV.  Also using a mouse isn't really possible since I'm sat on my couch,
which makes using standard view almost impossible.

I also want the simplicity of use of Theatre View, and to forget the fact that I'm
actually using a computer, since that's my day job!

[glynor]

I would assume that use of a mouse infers proximity to a screen, and the use of smaller fonts, dialog boxes, scroll bars is acceptable.

I would assume that use of keyboards infers that the user switches between “Standard View” and anything else just for interface convenience.

You know what they say about assumptions.  Just to challenge yours a bit...

I use my wireless mouse from the couch every day.  Both in Standard View and Theater View, and I do this from quite a ways back from the TV (which is my monitor on that computer).

I also use my wireless keyboard from the couch occasionally.  It's big and bulky, of course, so I don't keep it out most of the time.  I use mostly my RF remote control.  However, I do pull out the keyboard from time to time because it is convenient and necessary for certain tasks.  Again, this is on a machine connected to a TV and that I generally sit about 8' back from.

I use Theater View regularly on my laptop.  I control it using the mouse and the keyboard.  It's convenient when I'm on the laptop to quickly navigate through my library (usually from a bit of a distance) when I want to watch something.  I also have a remote for this machine, but it doesn't allow navigation (it's an Apple Remote so it just allows Play/Pause, Stop, Next, Prev, and Volume control).

[KingSparta]

I was watching Discovery Channel The Other Day Where This Guy Was A Amputee And He could control his robotic arm and fingers by just thinking about grabbing the glass or a flower.
The show portrayed it as just the beginning of controlling robotics with the human mind.

I thought it was very impressive, but at the same time I felt sorry for the guy to lose his arm in the first place.

Recently My Father was diagnosed with alzheimer's, he is OK in the morning and in laa laa land in the afternoon.

There are many people who are not handicapped, and don't feel the need for ways to control there computer and or (media player in this case). there maybe 10% of the worlds population that falls into the handicapped category and many do without just because they can not control the software, car or other product.

There are many organizations for the handicapped and many of them have worked with Microsoft in trying to improve windows and products that software companies create to make them more user friendly for the handicapped.

Since we all maybe handicapped in the future I think if there are many reasonable ways to control something the better it will be for all of us now and in the future.

I just hope In the future I can wipe the drool off my chin without the Assistance of a nurse.

[JimH]

My hope is that the nurse is good looking and Swedish and that I need a lot of assistance.

[NickM]

Recently My Father was diagnosed with alzheimer's, he is OK in the morning and in laa laa land in the afternoon.

Mine too King - sorry to hear that.

[NickM]

Thanks Glynor - yes, it was presumptive, and yes, I purposely said so - trying to see how the mainstream and minority users view the various interfaces.

What started the train of thought was playing around with Front Row and Apple’s 6 button remote [Up, Down, Left, Right, Play & Menu].  Without comparison to the actual product, iTunes is for the keyboard & mouse whilst Front Row is purely for the remote.

With reference to Jim’s list, I would suggest (better Glynor?) that Touch screen & Mouse are nearly the same.  I would also guess that if you have a mouse, you’re likely to have a keyboard.  And lastly that if you can navigate by mouse, you should be able to navigate by arrow keys.   I suppose the more specific question should have been; What is the Primary interface method for each type of view?

Theatre View   Remote & Touch Screen
Everything else   Keyboard & Mouse

[datdude]

Is that all?  Maybe.  What about controlling with a cell phone?  That's probably coming.  So... four arrow keys and an enter key should work.

Yes!!!!

I get my credit towards a free phone in a few months so any ideas on what platforms this might work on would be great to know.

[mhakman]

Here is my 5 cents opinion.

I think we need an additional view beside Standard and Theater views. Current Theater View can be operated by mouse, keyboard and touch screen (wireless remote or not). It is very good in some environments and situations but it is also more complex (and less informative) than I would like it to be. I would like to call this a “Kiosk View”. In my “vision” a Theater View is simpler and more informative, requires only a remote control device, without mouse, without keyboard, and is used from a distance of 3 meters on a 42 inch HD screen by not always sober people. Apple’s Front Row is a step in right direction and the new Apple TV device even more so. Well, it doesn’t have DVD slot, cannot play FLAC, and only MPEG4 video but the UI is more or less perfect. Maybe few more buttons on the remote and a little more info shown for each album. Otherwise this would be IT.

I have put together a document (a simulation) describing such a view at http://www.dkab.net/Audiophile TV.doc. It’s less artistic than Apple’s and JRiver's but perhaps more focused on the task. I have also put a poll concerning this type of view at http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=38311.msg260474#msg260474. Please do participate.

[JimH]

Here is my 5 cents opinion.

I think we need an additional view beside Standard and Theater views.

Amazing.  Matt said exactly this yesterday.

[mhakman]

Amazing.  Matt said exactly this yesterday.

Is it telepathy or are things finally in the right place now for some action so that the same idea pops up in many people’s minds?
 

[Osho]

Amazing.  Matt said exactly this yesterday.

I agree. We need one more view. We particularly need a "Big Screen/Display View/whatever you want to call it" for a 10' couch interface with remote control. The current Display View is very inadequate for this purpose - with the small unreadable controls at the top (which need mouse to bring into view), poor OSD, poor controls display  and poor integration with going back and forth between TheaterView. Look at the full screen displays of Apple iTV, MythTV, Dishnetwork/DirectTV/Comcast etc. DVR boxes (granted they have much simpler operation than MC12 but still), TheaterTek DVD player etc. - they have got this part down pretty well.

thanks,
Osho

[skeeterfood]

At a minimum, I'd love to be able to make a Track Info for Display view that shows the following items:
* Artist
* Album
* Track Name
* Cover Art
* Elapsed time/Remaining time either as numbers, or as a progress bar (skinnable would be nice) **
* Previous song info (Artist, Album, Track) **
* Next Song info (Artist, Album, Track) **
* Current / Total Songs in list

NOTE: The items with ** after them are the ones I don't think are possible in a Track Info today.

-John

[Osho]

At a minimum, I'd love to be able to make a Track Info for Display view that shows the following items:
* Artist
* Album
* Track Name
* Cover Art
* Elapsed time/Remaining time either as numbers, or as a progress bar (skinnable would be nice) **
* Previous song info (Artist, Album, Track) **
* Next Song info (Artist, Album, Track) **
* Current / Total Songs in list

NOTE: The items with ** after them are the ones I don't think are possible in a Track Info today.

-John

I created a visualization for just this purpose: Check out this screenshot

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=38150.msg260987#msg260987

I believe visualization is a better way to get this info than track info.

Osho

[jmmttu77]

I created a visualization for just this purpose: Check out this screenshot

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=38150.msg260987#msg260987

I believe visualization is a better way to get this info than track info.

Osho

Hey Osho, it was your viz that was the foundation for the one I made....many thanks!
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=39062.0

[Osho]

Hey Osho, it was your viz that was the foundation for the one I made....many thanks!
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=39062.0

Nice looking viz! I would definitely download and try them out. Thanks!

Osho