Topic: Theaterview - Send To (External) (Read 4920 times)

michaelb · « **on:** April 20, 2007, 03:47:43 pm »

Using standard view, I can now use Send To (External) for movies so that I can send them to Theatertek for playback. I would like to start using Theaterview more, but cannot seem to use Send To while in Theaterview. How can I this?

It would also be easier to use Theatertek if I could associate external programs with a file extension just like I can associate Directshow filters with a file extension. That way I (or my 6 year old) could just click on the movie coverart and Theatertek would launch and play. Another suggestion would be to use a "Send To" tag that could be added for all files. Clicking on an item would then send it to whatever is entered in the "Send To" tag.

gappie · « **Reply #1 on:** April 20, 2007, 06:08:03 pm »

i like the idea of the possebility to assign an outside programm for a file type. but you may have an other option. i dont know theatertek so i do not know if it works, but did do it for zoomplayer today.
if you can assign theatertek as the default player for the file types you want it to play you can do this:
change in the tags from the files you want to play outside, the media type to data (do this for one only first, to test). edit the video view scheme so that it also sees data as media type. open theaterview and click the chaged file. because mc now thinks it is data it will take the default player from your machine. hope it helps.

Matt · « **Reply #2 on:** April 21, 2007, 01:10:52 am »

What is missing so that you couldn't use MC to play videos? Version 12 added a lot of power to the video playback engine.

michaelb · « **Reply #3 on:** April 23, 2007, 09:59:01 am »

Quote from: gappie on April 20, 2007, 06:08:03 pm

change in the tags from the files you want to play outside, the media type to data (do this for one only first, to test). edit the video view scheme so that it also sees data as media type. open theaterview and click the chaged file. because mc now thinks it is data it will take the default player from your machine. hope it helps.

I was very close to trying this before you suggested it. I changed the media type to data and now it works great! However, I have to add the coverart before changing the media type. I still haven't figured out how to change the view scheme in TheaterView so that just the coverart shows when I select Video rather than also showing the sorting options.

Quote

What is missing so that you couldn't use MC to play videos? Version 12 added a lot of power to the video playback engine.

MC's display view is hard to read from the couch. I like the ability with Theatertek to assign custom aspect ratios and video settings to each movie. I like the transparent overlay of controls and timeline. I also like to use it for playing DTS audio files. They sound better than when using Directshow filters and MC. I have not been able to get MC to use the Nvidia audio filters that come with Theatertek for playing DTS audio files.

It would be nice if Media Center would allow you to add recognized file extensions to the data mode (I also use OpenOffice.org files), or add .plt files to video mode. Theatertek allows you to create a playlist file with custom parameters. If I could just open the playlist file with MC, it would be much easier. If this is not possible, is there a way to add coverart to the media type of "data"?

maxxsid · « **Reply #4 on:** April 23, 2007, 12:42:40 pm »

Yeah.. Video in MC is getting close to be usable. With MC12 I started actually using it.
Zoom player is still easier to use and more powerful but at least MC12 does the job in most cases.
However, every now and then I have to go back to Zoom Player just because MC misbehaves.. (and frankly, whenever I do this I find Zoom Player just a pleasure to use, while MC still gives me headaches when it comes to Theater View and HTPC dual-monitor setup. Let me emphasize this - MC12 is close to be perfect in single monitor desktop PC setup but not so in dual-monitor-10-feet-away-from setup)

Anyway, just yesterday I tried to watch an mpg encoded video (instead of usual avi) and couldn't make it play in full screen. It would go full screen but the playback would freeze. (All OK with avi and DVD. )
No problem in Zoom Player

Quote from: Matt on April 21, 2007, 01:10:52 am

What is missing so that you couldn't use MC to play videos? Version 12 added a lot of power to the video playback engine.

JimH · « **Reply #5 on:** April 23, 2007, 01:01:15 pm »

Quote from: maxxsid on April 23, 2007, 12:42:40 pm

Anyway, just yesterday I tried to watch an mpg encoded video (instead of usual avi) and couldn't make it play in full screen. It would go full screen but the playback would freeze. (All OK with avi and DVD. )

This could be a DirectShow problem. Try glynor's thread on video, which you can find near the bottom of the FAQ thread on this board.

glynor · « **Reply #6 on:** April 23, 2007, 01:44:44 pm »

Quote from: maxxsid on April 23, 2007, 12:42:40 pm

Anyway, just yesterday I tried to watch an mpg encoded video (instead of usual avi) and couldn't make it play in full screen. It would go full screen but the playback would freeze. (All OK with avi and DVD. )
No problem in Zoom Player

Interesting. What type of MPEG is it? I'm assuming it's a MPEG-1 since you said it was a MPG, but MPEG-2 files can be wrapped in the MPG wrapper too, so I'm not clear. Also, what playback filters are you using to decode the video (is it FFDSHOW or is something else handling MPEG decoding)?

Just so you know AVI and MPG are not video encodings, they are A/V container formats, as are MP4, MKV, OGM, and MOV. The important "meat" of the file is how the audio and video streams inside the container format are stored. Describing the file format, rather than the video/audio formats, is analogous to describing the bag you carry your laptop in when someone asks what kind of laptop you have. This is an extremely common misconception about video files. It would seem that saying "it's an AVI not a MP4" would help, but it doesn't at all because they both can contain MPEG-4 ASP encoded video with MP3 encoded audio tracks (among many other formats).

maxxsid · « **Reply #7 on:** April 23, 2007, 02:54:28 pm »

it's mpeg-1 and very likely a screwed-up one (not my encoding).
but that's not my point. point is - zoom player plays whatever i throw in it, MC sometimes is acting up and I need to fiddle with its setting and very often, after I make one thing to work the other thing stops working.

Quote from: glynor on April 23, 2007, 01:44:44 pm

Interesting. What type of MPEG is it? I'm assuming it's a MPEG-1 since you said it was a MPG, but MPEG-2 files can be wrapped in the MPG wrapper too, so I'm not clear. Also, what playback filters are you using to decode the video (is it FFDSHOW or is something else handling MPEG decoding)?

Just so you know AVI and MPG are not video encodings, they are A/V container formats, as are MP4, MKV, OGM, and MOV. The important "meat" of the file is how the audio and video streams inside the container format are stored. Describing the file format, rather than the video/audio formats, is analogous to describing the bag you carry your laptop in when someone asks what kind of laptop you have. This is an extremely common misconception about video files. It would seem that saying "it's an AVI not a MP4" would help, but it doesn't at all because they both can contain MPEG-4 ASP encoded video with MP3 encoded audio tracks (among many other formats).

gappie · « **Reply #8 on:** April 23, 2007, 04:16:09 pm »

true. in zoomplayer things that are supposed to work, just work. im in the proces of making a plugin to start zoom player from within mc, including updating of last played and numbers played and leaving the media type as video. some bugs are still there, but it works fairly nicely for some hours of inexperienced programming.

maxxsid · « **Reply #9 on:** April 23, 2007, 06:05:42 pm »

nice! however, watching the progress of MC is giving me hope of tossing all other media playing wares out..

It's really ridiculous when one has to plug ZoomPlayer into MC, MC into Meedio and use the Front Lobby as a front end to all that...

Quote from: gappie on April 23, 2007, 04:16:09 pm

true. in zoomplayer things that are supposed to work, just work. im in the proces of making a plugin to start zoom player from within mc, including updating of last played and numbers played and leaving the media type as video. some bugs are still there, but it works fairly nicely for some hours of inexperienced programming.

maxxsid · « **Reply #10 on:** April 23, 2007, 08:56:07 pm »

Came back home and checked - it's actually mpeg-2 SVCD format.
It plays OK in a single-monitor setup (windowed and full screen) but doesn't play full-screen in the dual-monitor setup.
Normally I have the Standard View MC on my small screen LCD, start the playback, double-click on the video and it goes to the large screen LCD.
Worked alright lately (before MC12, I had all kinds of troubles with MC and used ZoomPlayer for video) until I bumped into this "bad" file/format. This one just freezes when it goes into Full-screen. If I try to run it on the large screen LCD from Theater View, it starts but doesn't go Full-screen. Again this is only for dual monitor setup..

Glynor - how can I tell what decoder decodes and what renderer renders for video files? It's easy to tell for DVD - there's an option to select video/audio decoders and video renderer.
For a video file, if I right click I can see DirectShow Filters. Some are grayed out some are not. Are those active filters? or installed filters? How do I change, say, ffdshow to something else?

Thanks!

Quote from: glynor on April 23, 2007, 01:44:44 pm

Interesting. What type of MPEG is it? I'm assuming it's a MPEG-1 since you said it was a MPG, but MPEG-2 files can be wrapped in the MPG wrapper too, so I'm not clear. Also, what playback filters are you using to decode the video (is it FFDSHOW or is something else handling MPEG decoding)?

Just so you know AVI and MPG are not video encodings, they are A/V container formats, as are MP4, MKV, OGM, and MOV. The important "meat" of the file is how the audio and video streams inside the container format are stored. Describing the file format, rather than the video/audio formats, is analogous to describing the bag you carry your laptop in when someone asks what kind of laptop you have. This is an extremely common misconception about video files. It would seem that saying "it's an AVI not a MP4" would help, but it doesn't at all because they both can contain MPEG-4 ASP encoded video with MP3 encoded audio tracks (among many other formats).

JimH · « **Reply #11 on:** April 24, 2007, 07:01:24 am »

Quote from: maxxsid on April 23, 2007, 08:56:07 pm

Came back home and checked - it's actually mpeg-2 SVCD format.

We'd like to have a copy of that file. Can you put it on a server somewhere? Thanks.

glynor · « **Reply #12 on:** April 24, 2007, 09:28:27 am »

Try searching in interact for my username and "G-Spot". To check the default DirectShow graph, you use the MS #1 button in the G-Spot UI.

You can build your own DirectShow filter graph (which is the "chain" of filters used by the Microsoft DirectShow engine to decode the media) for a wide variety of file types in MC's options at Options --> Playback --> DirectShow Playback settings. Simply select the file type from the list on the right, and click the "Select Filters" button. If you want to change it systemwide, try searching interact for my username and "radlight" and you should find what you need.

maxxsid · « **Reply #13 on:** April 24, 2007, 11:33:25 am »

I might look like a blond babe on the picture but I do know what "G-spot" is... *blush*

I poked around with the DirectShow Filters in MC12. I did see that it's possible to select an extension and select desired filters. What is not clear to me - why nothing is selected there? MC uses some filters but it doesn't tell me what those are. G-Spot does, I know. And, if I to select some other filter(s), how do I select the right one(s)?
"For playback... choose zero or one filter from the Source Filters and zero or more filters from the Other Filters.." Right.. If zero filters is selected, why does it play at all? (I understand, it uses some default filters, like last used by any other DirectShow application, but..). One or more filters? Which ones? etc etc etc.
I mean, being a hairy dude I am able to figure all this out but what about an average Joe? Read the FAQ? Download this and that? Uninstall this and install that? Search for Glynor?
Works for me but not for Joe..

Quote from: glynor on April 24, 2007, 09:28:27 am

Try searching in interact for my username and "G-Spot". To check the default DirectShow graph, you use the MS #1 button in the G-Spot UI.

You can build your own DirectShow filter graph (which is the "chain" of filters used by the Microsoft DirectShow engine to decode the media) for a wide variety of file types in MC's options at Options --> Playback --> DirectShow Playback settings. Simply select the file type from the list on the right, and click the "Select Filters" button. If you want to change it systemwide, try searching interact for my username and "radlight" and you should find what you need.

glynor · « **Reply #14 on:** April 24, 2007, 12:22:45 pm »

Selecting your own custom DirectShow filters is an advanced step, and something that "Average Joe" wouldn't really ever be doing. You have an admittedly troublesome MPEG-2 file there. It quite likely has an encoding error that ZoomPlayer has been specifically coded to work around.

EDIT: It could also be that ZoomPlayer is using a different Video Renderer than MC is. Have you tried setting MC to different Video Renderers (also done in the "Select Filters" dialog box for each individual media type)? ZoomPlayer uses the old-school Overlay Renderer by default I think, which is more widely compatible but less featureful. MC tends to use the VMR9 renderer by default (if available), which is the newest and most advanced option but is less compatible with older hardware and bad drivers.

To answer your question though... When you select no filters, it simply builds the regular DirectShow graph. The same as Windows Media Player and any other DirectShow player does when playing back a file. When you select 1 or more, it will attempt to build a graph based on those selected filters. If that graph fails (the output pins can't connect to the input pins to build a complete render graph) then it either ignores certain selected filters, or it fails over completely to the default graph.

The default graph is built based on two factors: a) each individual filter "tells" DirectShow what kinds of media streams it is able to render, and b) DirectShow assigns (or more precisely, the filters assign to themselves when you install them) a priority number called its "merit score".

When you play a file, DirectShow attempts to build a chain of filters capable of decoding the content based on these two pieces of information. It tries filters matching the stream type, in the order of which filter has the highest priority first. If the "render" fails, then it tries the next highest priority set, and so on and so forth until it runs out of options or succeeds. Just because it "works" doesn't mean it's necessarily finding the "best" filter graph.

MC's DirectShow Playback settings dialog overrides the priority part of this sequence of events. If you select one or more of those filters, it overrides the normal merit score system (perhaps by temporarily elevating them to the highest possible Merit -- I'm not sure of the details of this mechanism). So, you can force it to "try" to use a different filter to play a file back, but you can't force it to use one or fail outright. If it fails, it will automatically default to try the next highest priority filter to render the file.

PS. I've simplified this a bit for the sake of explanation, but that's the general idea of what happens when you try to play a file back via DirectShow.

EDIT: MC's DirectShow Playback Settings dialog provides essentially identical functionality to ZoomPlayer's "Smart Play" feature. One other thing I didn't explain above is the difference between the "Source Filters" and the "Other Filters" in MC's UI. This is pretty simple, really:

Source Filters: used to decode the container file format (described in an earlier post above by me) and extract the actual audio, video, metadata, and subtitle streams (among other information). Sometimes these filters are called "Splitters" because they split up the audio and video streams. An example is the Haali Media Splitter, which can decode MP4, AAC, and MKV files (among others).

Other Filters: these should really be renamed "Rendering Filters" or "A/V Filters" or something like that to be more clear, but essentially these filters take the outputs from the Source Filter (the A/V streams generally) and decode them and send them to the Video Renderer and/or the DirectSound Device (your sound card driver). Generally you'll need one filter to process each "stream type" that comes out of the Source Filter (though many handle more than one type of stream, like FFDSHOW). Examples of these are the FFDSHOW MPEG-4 Video Decoder (ffdshow.ax), XviD Video Decoder (xvid.ax), the Microsoft MPEG Audio Decoder (quartz.dll), and DirectVobSub (VSFilter.dll).

maxxsid · « **Reply #15 on:** April 24, 2007, 12:58:01 pm »

Thanks for the info! It's actually a nice summary - I never was able to read through all this filters/graphs/pins/merits jazz before.. It's all quite straighforward and logical but a bit convoluted..

Anyway, lets forget about that problem file - it was badly encoded and the header was wrong.

My initial point was not about "how to play that file" or "why there's no sound/video".
My point was "why the file is handled OK with ZP and WMP but not with MC". And I know why. 'Cause MC is always under development and improving. Right? 6 months ago I wouldn't be surprised at all that some video didn't play in MC.

The reason why ZP plays/handles most of the formats without a problem is that it downloads/updates and installs all those codecs, filters and splitters automatically (for average Joe). No need to install CCCP and such.

Quote from: glynor on April 24, 2007, 12:22:45 pm

Selecting your own custom DirectShow filters is an advanced step, and something that "Average Joe" wouldn't really ever be doing. You have an admittedly troublesome MPEG-2 file there. It quite likely has an encoding error that ZoomPlayer has been specifically coded to work around.

maxxsid · « **Reply #16 on:** April 25, 2007, 01:04:18 am »

Jim,
The file is really hmm.. bad. It has been fiddled with.. The header is wrong or something. It plays with a wrong aspect ratio. If I were you I wouldn't waste time on it.
However, having said that.. I just installed 219 and it actually played it! Even the aspect ratio was correct! (which I couldn't easily correct in Zoom Player)
Still, that file behaves a bit different from "good" files.
When I start it, it goes Full Screen on my "full-screen" monitor (with the previous public build it wouldn't go full screen) and plays OK. At first, the aspect ratio is wrong but if I scale the video just a touch it jumps to the correct aspect. However, when I close full screen to go to Standard View, video playback stops and there's no way to start it other than to restart the playback (double-click on the file).
If you are still interested I can try to cut a little fragment and post it.
Thanks!

Quote from: JimH on April 24, 2007, 07:01:24 am

We'd like to have a copy of that file. Can you put it on a server somewhere? Thanks.

michaelb · « **Reply #17 on:** April 25, 2007, 03:33:13 pm »

I just installed the 12.0.219 version and I love all the changes to Theater View. Since I can now select different default view schemes in Theater View, using "data" as a media type works great for files that I want to open with an external program. I can set up a view scheme with media type as "Data" and submedia type as "Movie." Now I can make this the default view in Videos using Theater View. JRiver Media Center has now become my official front-end software and media player. Thanks for all the changes to Theater View!

Sprtfan · « **Reply #18 on:** May 05, 2007, 10:13:32 am »

Quote from: gappie on April 20, 2007, 06:08:03 pm

i like the idea of the possebility to assign an outside programm for a file type. but you may have an other option. i dont know theatertek so i do not know if it works, but did do it for zoomplayer today.
if you can assign theatertek as the default player for the file types you want it to play you can do this:
change in the tags from the files you want to play outside, the media type to data (do this for one only first, to test). edit the video view scheme so that it also sees data as media type. open theaterview and click the chaged file. because mc now thinks it is data it will take the default player from your machine. hope it helps.

I have gone through all of the steps but I'm not able to get the file to play let along get it to play in TheaterTek. I have TheaterTek set as the default player for the file type. I changed the media typ of the file to data. I added data as a media type to the Video view scheme. At this point I try to play it and nothing happens. If I go into TheaterView, I can not see the data file. I must be missing something and any help or more detailed explanation would be very helpful. If I can get this to work I'll use MediaCenter as my frontend and stop using MediaPortal. Thanks

gappie · « **Reply #19 on:** May 05, 2007, 03:23:29 pm »

i can try to be more detailed, but first a question. what kind of file are you trying.

Sprtfan · « **Reply #20 on:** May 05, 2007, 03:35:03 pm »

I ripped most of my DVD collection with DVD decrypter into Video_TS files. The files are .ifo It would also be nice to be able to put a DVD into the computer and have it be able to be played by TheaterTek also. Thanks for any help. If I can get this to work it will really stream line my HTPC and make my wife very happy.

gappie · « **Reply #21 on:** May 05, 2007, 03:56:18 pm »

Quote from: Sprtfan on May 05, 2007, 03:35:03 pm

I ripped most of my DVD collection with DVD decrypter into Video_TS files. The files are .ifo It would also be nice to be able to put a DVD into the computer and have it be able to be played by TheaterTek also. Thanks for any help. If I can get this to work it will really stream line my HTPC and make my wife very happy.

i feared that you would say ifo/vob file. with ifo files mc tricks a bit.

when you look in the tag information for the ifo file and you look at the file path you see that is it says \VIDEO_TS.dvd;1 at the end and not \VIDEO_TS.ifo. which is the name of the file, and why it does not work when you put it to data, because the link is not valid. now when you change the filename at the end to .ifo it will know the path and it will work. try one file first! the nice thing with working with ifo files in mc is that it wont think for it self because it also not realy knows where they are (click for instance locate>external, and it will say it does not excist). when you change the name to .ifo, it will know where it is and will changing things back to the starting point a bit more complex (it will not let you change it back to .dvd;1 easy, it will give a tag error while it tries to change the actual filename to .dvd;1 which is impossible).

about Theater View. did you look under view if you are not looking to some list that does not include those files? (when you are using the latest build)

hope it helps a bit.

Sprtfan · « **Reply #22 on:** May 06, 2007, 12:19:30 am »

Thanks, now TheaterTek opens and plays the correct file. When I switch to Theater View though I can still not see the file. I was guessing that I would need to edit the "Video" section items to show section. When I try to edit it I get a "Select and editable item and try again" message. This happens for all of the default ones so I'm guessing that I can't add Data as a media type. I'm sure there is a way to get it to show up in Theater View and any help would be nice. Thanks

Sprtfan · « **Reply #23 on:** May 06, 2007, 12:39:44 am »

I got it to work in Theater View now. I have to create a playlist and include the data files in the playlist. Is this what I need to do or is there a better way?

Sprtfan · « **Reply #24 on:** May 06, 2007, 10:50:44 am »

I figured out what you were talking about and can find the files in the "View" section of Video now. What I would really like to do is be able to have all of my DVDs organized by Series, season, then disk (Most of the DVD's I have backed up are TV shows). I have it so I can find the specific DVDs, but I have not found a way to organize them very well yet. Any info on how to seperate all the different DVDs into catagories? Thanks for all the help. This will really help me stream line my HTPC and still have everything I want. The only little thing I will miss from MediaPortal is the movie trailers but that is easy to live with out or work around.

michaelb · « **Reply #25 on:** May 07, 2007, 09:27:32 am »

Sprtfan,
I have been frustrated a little by setting up views and having them work the way I want in Theater View. I created a view at work that showed all movies as soon as I selected Video from the home page of Theater View. I tried to replicate the view at home and it would always require me to drill down one more level. It would also always show an "All" selection to drill down to the movies as well.

You can enter information in the tags for your shows. However, when the media type is video, you have season and series available. When the media type is date, these disappear but you still have episode. You could probably add custom tags for your shows or just use the existing tag names for different info.

I entered info in the genre tag was able to have a view that sorted by what was in the genre field. I just used "kids" and "movies" as my genre. I then went to "add view scheme" and under Create View items I only have "genre." I allowed it to auto name the view "video." In step 3 I have Image set to "video", Tree Position to "automatic", and only Show In Theater View checked. Under Pick Files to Show, I selected submedia type of "movie" and sorted by "Genre,name." (I use media type of "Data" and Submedia type of "movie." This is in case I have more data files but only want to open subtypes of "movie" with Theatertek.) I then went in the Theater View, clicked views, and selected Video. The movies were sorted by genre and everthing worked great. I also set Theatertek to exit app at End Of Media so that it would return to Theater View when the show or movie was over.

One thing I would like to see is the option to "stop playing now" when selecting a movie. If I am listening to music and then launch a movie, the music continues to be played by MC while the movie starts with Theatertek.

Sprtfan · « **Reply #26 on:** May 07, 2007, 11:25:35 am »

Thanks a lot!! I was getting frustrated trying to use the season and series tags and not being able to assign them to the DVD. It makes since that they would not be available now since it is now considered a data file. I'll try agian and see if I can come up with a way to get things organized. I have 4 different series of TV shows ripped to a server and having all of the DVD's show at once is way to much to have to sort through.

Sprtfan · « **Reply #27 on:** May 08, 2007, 12:21:11 am »

I think I found a way that works great. Before you change the file to data and change the file extention from .dvd;1 to .ifo, make all the tagging changes that you would want for a video file. I used Genre, Series, and Season and entered in all the information. For example I used Star Trek for Genre, Enterprise for Series, and 1-4 for season. I checked that everything was organized the way I wanted it. Then I changed the Media type from Video to Data and changed the extention to ifo. I went back to TheaterView and everything was still organized the way I wanted it but now when I hit play, TheaterTek opened and played the DVD. This works great for me and hope this information will help others save a little bit of time. If I don't run into any problems, Mediacenter is going to be my new frontend.

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Author Topic: Theaterview - Send To (External) (Read 4920 times)