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[WayneW]

I am a new user and having no luck syncing with my Grand Concerto M3 music server.  TheNuVo GC suite is whole house audio system, but the M3 should sync the same as the portable players.  It has a 160gig hard disk and syncs OK with Windows Media Player.

I am using 12.0.251 on Windows XP.  I have about 30 gig loaded on the M3 via WMP.  I am not able to browse the M3 file structure in Windows Explorer.  It shows up in the left pane, but I cannot see anything in the right pane or under the parent object.

MC detects the M3 as an "MCF5251 device", which is apparently the Freescale Coldfire processor used.  I attempt to sync and it just sits at 0% "working" for a long time (hours).  Eventually it must time out and the MC GUI goes back to "normal" with no evidence of the M3 device.  The M3 is now hung and must be rebooted.

Am I doing something wrong?  I searched and it appears that the MTP should be supported by MC automatically now.  Any advice for getting this to work?  TIA

The full M3 manual is available, but here what I think are the highlights:

Applicable industry standards: Microsoft Windows Media Digital Rights Management 10 (WMDRM10) for Portable Devices
Microsoft PlaysForSure certification (pending as of December 28, 2006)

Music synchronization (downloading) port: Universal Serial Bus (USB) 2.0 - compatible

Recommended music downloading PC application: Microsoft Windows Media Player 11
Also compatible with other Windows applications utilizing current Microsoft Media Transfer
Protocol (MTP)

File formats supported: MP3, 32 Kilobit per second (Kbps) to 320 Kbps, sample rates to 44.1 KHz as dictated by file
WMA fixed bit rate, with or without WMDRM10 encoding, fixed, 48 kbps to 192 kbps
WMA, variable bit rate, with or without WMDRM10, to 355 kpbs
WAV (uncompressed linear PCM), 16-bit, sample rates to 44.1 KHz (1411.2 kbps)

http://www.nuvotechnologies.com/prozone/documents/M3InstallationManual0705.pdf

[JimH]

If it is MTP compatible, then MC12 should work with it.  Make sure your version of MC is up to date.

Is there a setting for MTP on the device?

When you add the device to MC, you can tell it to use MTP.  Also check the pdt.xml file in the Program Files/JRiver/Media Center12/Data/Default Resources directory.  You can make a new entry if necessary.

[WayneW]

Make sure your version of MC is up to date.

Is there a setting for MTP on the device?

When you add the device to MC, you can tell it to use MTP. 

Also check the pdt.xml file in the Program Files/JRiver/Media Center12/Data/Default Resources directory.  You can make a new entry if necessary.

Is MC 12.0.251 not the latest?  It is the newest I can find and my app says there are no updates available.

No, there are no sync configuration options in the M3.

WHERE can I tell MC to use MTP for the device?  All I see are the name and the path, then options for conversion, but nothing obvious about MTP.

I don't see my device in pdt.xml and I only got one hit (relating to playlists, not devices) in that file when I searched for "MTP".  How do I add my device to that file?  What tags do I use?  I got no hits for "pdt" here on the forum or in the help file.  Is there a doc you can point me to?

[SwellGuy]

Do you see the 'Use WMDM..." setting? Use WMDM essentially instructs us the view the device as an MTP device. In fact, now that you brought it up, we will rename that option to be more clear.

[WayneW]

Do you see the 'Use WMDM..." setting?

Where is that setting?

I looked under the handheld options and don't see anything like WMDM.  Under "files & paths" I see paths for audio, images, video, data, playlist, database and supported filetypes.

I found the thread that has the 12.0.259 download and I am now using that.  The sync process now seems to be working.  I am up to 12% with 80 hours remaining, but only getting 0.0 MB/sec so it looks like I have some more work to do to get a usable speed.

[SwellGuy]

If the setting isn't displayed it doesn't apply to your device. The NuVo must then be an MTP (WMDM) device.

My guess is there is a lot of conversion going on. Is that the case?

[WayneW]

My guess is there is a lot of conversion going on. Is that the case?

I don't think so, but I don't know, but it gives me something else to research and learn about.  How do I tell if conversion is happening?  Now that I have something that appears to be communicating, I am stripping the NuVo down to the essentials (empty?) and will take baby steps to learn MC and get music loaded in small quantities.  I appreciate all the help.  I suspect there will be other NuVo owners (this is a new product) that will want to switch from Windows Media Player to MC to get a much more powerful product.

[SwellGuy]

You can look down the list at the status column while files are being transfered. Or you can make sure no conversion is taking place by changing the setting for that device to never convert or no conversion.

[For a given device] Options > Conversion > Audio/Image/Video

[WayneW]

My syncing is not working, it takes 20 minutes per song to fail and I don't see an obvious reason in the 3.5 meg log file.  I believe I have all conversion disabled.  When this process is finished, my NuVo is locked up and must be rebooted.

Hmm, further testing shows that just the initial query & enumeration (or whatever, about 8 minutes worth) stuff is locking up my NuVo, even if I don't attempt a sync (although there may be stuff queued somehow) .  Therefore I now suspect that the 20 minutes per song is due to a timeout.  I have tried the handheld redetect function & it didn't help.

I cannot find a way to attach my log file here, so should I email it to somebody?

Is this a normal event and elapsed time?
7927797: 7528: Handheld: CWMDMSupport::DeleteAndResetDatabase: Transfering file 'C:\Documents and Settings\wayne.HA-400SC\Local Settings\Temp\JRTemp\WMDM Database\MC.dic' failed.
7927797: 7528: Handheld: CWMDMSupport::DeleteAndResetDatabase: Finish (303406 ms)

here is the start of the single song I was trying to sync
11682938: 5900: Handheld: CHHUploadWorkerUploadThread::Thread: Creating file object (filename: <snip>\03 - Aberdeen - Kenny Wayne Shepherd.mp3)
11682969: 5900: Handheld: CHHUploadWorkerUploadThread::Thread: Sending upload command

here is the end, 20 minutes later, but I don't see an obvious failure reason
12884578: 7528: Handheld: CWMDMSupport::Upload: Transfer error 0: 03 - Aberdeen - Kenny Wayne Shepherd.mp3 transfer failed (-2144731130).
12884578: 7528: Handheld: CWMDMSupport::Upload: Finish (1201578 ms)

[WayneW]

Rick, did you get the logs I emailed you on Wednesday night?  I would like to get this working before my evaluation period expires in another 10 days or so.

I did some more testing and the problem seems to be with the transfer of the MC.dic file, as my previous posts hinted.

Using Windows Explorer, I can copy mp3 files directly to the NuVo with no problems.  But the NuVo looks different in Explorer than any device I have ever seen.  It doesn't show up under "Disk Management" and has no drive letter.  Under the "NuVo NV-M3" entry is a "hardisk media" folder (that is the right spelling), with a type of "generic hierarchical", total size 148 GB, free space 147 GB.  Under the "hardisk media" folder, there are folders for "Albums", "Music" and "Playlists".  I can copy mp3 files to the "Music" folder and sub-folders with no problem.

But when I try to copy MC.dic to the same "Music" folder, it fails with "Cannot copy MC.dic.  The device has either stopped responding or has been disconnected." after 3-5 minutes and I have to reboot the NuVo.  If I rename MC.dic to MC.dic.mp3 on my PC, then I can copy it easily.  But I cannot rename it back to its proper name on the NuVo, it goes through the motions of renaming, but it doesn't rename it (no error).  Trying to copy a jpg files give the same error, but doesn't have the 3-5 minute delay and doesn't lockup the NuVo.

When I try to copy an m3u file, I get a message:

the file <name>.m3u may be copied to the device for storage or transport use only.  It is not supported for use on the device itself.  If possible use a media program that can convert the file before copying it.  If you copy the file now, it will be stored on the device, but may not be presented on the device user interface.  Do you wish to copy the file to the device anyway?

If I answer "yes, it copies fine.  But this sort of message makes me think I am not dealing with the storage device directly and that Microsoft MTP is doing filtering or interfering or rights management?  I have a hunch that is what is preventing the MC.dic file from copying.  But since MC is supposed to speak the right protocols, why can MC not  copy the file either?  If this is an issue on the NuVo side, I will be glad to engage them.

[WayneW]

Does anybody have any ideas?  Do I have any chance of getting this to work?  Is it supported?  I only have 6 days left and would really like to purchase this if it works.

[SwellGuy]

Sorry for the delay we've been really tied up with some other fires.

We can't tell what the problem is from looking at the logs. We can see that the device really doesn't like what were trying to send it. After 5-20 minutes if fails with an undocumented error code. We'll continue to dig...

[SwellGuy]

We have never seen this problem before - where the file types allowed to be copied to the device is so restricted that the device locks up if you attempt to copy an unsanctioned file to it. If you rename the file to MC.XML does it allow you to transfer the file?

[WayneW]

I made multiple copies of my 1kb MC.dic file, then renamed them as follows.  When I attempted to copy them to the NuVo, here are the results:

MCdic.xml - copied quickly - but it does weird things when I rename it, like jump from 773 bytes to 1.10 GB when I change it from .xml to .dic or .txt.  When I rename it from .dic back to .xml, it changes to 0 bytes.  When it was named .xml and was 773 bytes, it opened fine in a browser (as expected).  After renaming to .dic, then back to .xml @ 0 bytes, it no longer opens.  I get error "XML document must have a top level element.".  So simply renaming the file twice destroys it.

MCdic.txt - cannot copy, take 5 minutes to timeout, event log error pasted below

MCdic.mp3 - copied instantly

MCdic.m3u - copied quickly, but asked the weird "incompatible" dialog mentioned previously

MCdic.jpg - multiple behaviors - I usually cannot copy, as if fails quickly with "Cannot copy MCdic.jpg.  The device has either stopped responding or has been disconnected."  and the NuVo is NOT hosed.  BUT, contrary to my previous post, sometimes it DOES hose the NuVo and I have to reboot to browse again.  In those cases, it does not give me the "cannot copy" error and it appears to be trying to copy.  I haven't figured out what triggers the different behavior, but I suspect it has to do with something done previously is a ticking time bomb.

Here is the MCdic.* file, if you see anything wrong with it.  IIRC, this file might have come from a thumb drive that MC discovered.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes" ?>
<DIC Version="1.05">
<InfoKey/>
<Item>
<Field Name="Path">setup5_0_041.exe</Field>
<Field Name="MetaData">(1:3)(4:Name)(16:setup5_0_041.exe)(9:File Size)(8:10638278)(10:Media Type)(4:Data)</Field>
<Field Name="HHKey">setup5_0_041.exe
10638278
</Field>
</Item>
<Item>
<Field Name="Path">BOOTEX.LOG</Field>
<Field Name="MetaData">(1:3)(4:Name)(10:BOOTEX.LOG)(9:File Size)(4:2488)(10:Media Type)(4:Data)</Field>
<Field Name="HHKey">BOOTEX.LOG
2488
</Field>
</Item>
<Item>
<Field Name="Path">setup6_0_029.exe</Field>
<Field Name="MetaData">(1:3)(4:Name)(16:setup6_0_029.exe)(9:File Size)(8:13650120)(10:Media Type)(4:Data)</Field>
<Field Name="HHKey">setup6_0_029.exe
13650120
</Field>
</Item>
</DIC>

Event Type:   Error
Event Source:   WPDMTPDriver
Event Category:   (48)
Event ID:   15301
Description:
MTP USB Driver has detected that the device has failed to respond to the operation 0x100d in 5 minutes, which resulted in an attempt to cancel the operation. Error 0x802a0006.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.

this is one weird device

[SwellGuy]

We use WMDM to communicate with MTP devices. WPD is a newer standard for communicating with MTP devices but it's availability is limited to just few version of Windows so we have not yet adopted it. It's starting to look like the device prefers WPD. We're re-evaluating the merits of switching to WPD now.

[WayneW]

Are there any other applications that already use WPD & MTP that I could use to test your theory?

[WayneW]

We're re-evaluating the merits of switching to WPD now.

Does MC use WPD yet?  I tried searching, but apparently you cannot search for three letter words as I didn't even find this thread.

[SwellGuy]

No. It's still a moving target. Microsoft just announced the rebranding of "PlaysForSure" to "Certified for Windows Vista" so, once again, they seem to be intent on pigeon-holing their DRM to a specific OS. We don't want to have to tell our users they have to upgrade to Vista to run our software so we are sticking with WMDM for the time being.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/12/microsoft-rebrands-playsforsure-to-certified-for-windows-vista/

[WayneW]

Thanks for the info.  I appreciate the predicament you are in.

[WayneW]

Sorry to bump my old thread, but it has all the relevant history.  I looked over the latest release notes and didn't see an answer.  Does MC use WPD yet?