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[Higginz]

Hi

I've been using MC 12 for a week, and today I bought it. This is without a doubt the best media player I've ever used.
Now, is there any J.RMC banner adds or other small images that we - the users can place on webpages or as sigs etc. to promote MC?. I looked around but didn't find anything.

Just a thought.

/Higginz

[JimH]

Thanks.  We'll find you one.  It will probably be Monday.

[JONCAT]

Frequent keyboard & mouse washing doesn't help...it gets everywhere!

DC

[Higginz]

Thanks.  We'll find you one.  It will probably be Monday.

Great. Thanks for the quick reply.
I'll keep my eyes open.

/Higginz

[PeterS]

Hi,
Here are a few static banners that anyone can use (just right click to save). We can get a little fancier if that is what folks want 

[221bBS]

Posting a good review of MC in BetaNews, CNet, etc... would help also

http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/J_River_Media_Center/942695349/1

http://www.download.com/JRiver-Media-Center/3000-2167_4-10633584.html?tag=lst-0-1

[JimH]

Posting a good review of MC in BetaNews, CNet, etc... would help also

Thank you.

[Higginz]

Wow, that was fast.
Thanks very much PeterS, they're looking great.

Cheers!
Higginz

[Higginz]

I've made a simple userbar:



Higginz

[ThoBar]

was bored at work. created this....

[robydago]

jriver should release a free (not trial, really free) version with less features: all world famous media players are either completely free or have a free version.

[prod]

jriver should release a free (not trial, really free) version with less features: all world famous media players are either completely free or have a free version.

I think the basic MediaJukebox is gratis.

[robydago]

I think the basic MediaJukebox is gratis.

Isn't that a really old version? If so, it's not a good ad for the latest MC. The free version should be the latest full version with something disabled or reduced (for example: no podcasts, no webmedia, encoding only to max. 128kbit, etc.)

[prod]

I've never used MediaJukebox, not sure what it's like.

The free version should be the latest full version with something disabled or reduced (for example: no podcasts, no webmedia, encoding only to max. 128kbit, etc.)

Crippleware is a pretty horrible concept in my opinion. It can really ruin a good product's image. I don't really understand why releasing MC12 like this would help it compete more fiercely with a free heavily-featured product backed by a huge corporate entity i.e. iTunes .

I think most people either don't know about MC, or can't understand or even imagine what MC12 can do for your media, compared to the rest.

[robydago]

Crippleware is a pretty horrible concept in my opinion. It can really ruin a good product's image.

I don't think so, otherwise you wouldn't find entry level products on the market; and that applies to everything not only sw: think about cars, consumer electronic, etc.
It makes sense 'cause most features added to a program cost money to the developers and why souldn't they charge more to people that want more features and less to those that need just a basic set?
We can argue if the proper starting price for the core features of MC can be 0US$, but that's driven by a market where huge corporations can give sw for free 'cause they get money from elsewhere (other sw or content or both)

[prod]

Using your analogy a typical entry level car might be limited to 40mph and have no seats.

Besides, entry level cars (& electronics) still cost money, they sure ain't free.

[benn600]

However, you need to realize the benefits of charging.  You won't find just anybody in this forum.  If they had a free version, I guarantee the threads here could be overrun even more than I already do myself.  It could ruin the legitimacy associated with the fact that most people here are true audiophiles or at least something better than the average iTunes user.

I suppose it would sell more copies of Media Center, who knows.

[robydago]

Using your analogy a typical entry level car might be limited to 40mph and have no seats.

well, not using my analogy car makers would sell only the best model they can make, resulting in a few people with very good cars and the rest of us walking..

Besides, entry level cars (& electronics) still cost money, they sure ain't free.

naturally only sw can be free because it can be copied at no cost; as I said the price is set by the market leaders and unfortunately for JRiver that price is 0US$

[TreeFrog77]

I was just praising JRiver on the Homeseer message boards, came here to check in, and saw this thread.  I posted there, as that is another piece of software I love and I have MC integrated into my whole house automation.

My two-cents (well, maybe only a penny) for what it's worth... MC is one of those software packages I have never thought twice about the money spent since I purchased it.  As I said on the other forum, it's just one of those pieces of software that the more you use, the more you wonder how you did without it in the first place.  In addition, it really raises the bar on what you really consider good software.

As far as some comments on this thread, I think that the fully-functional 30-day trial policy is completely fine.  I agree that I don't want this community over-run with those looking to get something for nothing.  There are plenty other options available out there for those people.  The thirty-day trial was enough for me to play with it, see what it could do, and even test if I really could integrate it easily with my home automation.  Did that in the first week and then just "used" it for a few weeks.  After that, I dug out my credit card.  Done and done. 

I don't want JRiver to get a big head and start charging a ton for it, cause I do believe there is a line to cross, especially in the crowded market of media management, but I for one am a huge fan and, so long as they continue the great support here, constant feature additions, and a reasonable price... I'm sure I'll be buying every new version when it's released.  I'm still "new" compared to many in this JRiver community, but from the looks of things, it would appear that JRiver has pretty good timing when it comes for charging for an upgrade.  I believe in paying for good work done.

The surprising thing is how long it took me to discover this gem. 

I'm definitely doing my part to spread the word.  I think the funniest thing is just how many people think you can only sync an iPod with iTunes.  I just laugh and tell them that my iPod has not once ever seen the face of iTunes.  And then I show them just all the things I sync with it (along with my phone, of course).

P.S... I'm going to post my simple scripts I'm using to interface with Homeseer over there this week sometime, if interested.  I'm trying to do a little better job giving back to the community here.  But I will say that the scripts were very easy to write, thanks to JRiver's great API documentation.  Woo woo woo.

EDIT:  I just want to back this post up by saying that I have tried just about every product out there... way too many to list (all the usual suspects are there).  Although many were great at some things, there was ALWAYS something that just didn't work the way I wanted it to.  I even owned MusicMatch at one point in time (I can't really see how now... hahaha).

Okay, I'll shut up now... lol.

[benn600]

ADDITION:

EDIT:  I just want to back this post up by saying that I have tried just about every product out there... way too many to list (all the usual suspects are there).  Although many were great at some things, there was ALWAYS something that just didn't work the way I wanted it to.  I even owned MusicMatch at one point in time (I can't really see how now... hahaha).

ME TOO!  I spent months before June 2006 and then suddenly stumbled upon MC in July 2006.  What a glorious day.  Nothing even came close.  And version 11 wasn't even close to MC 12's quality!  Looking back I couldn't even CONSIDER having not upgraded to 12.  They rule!

I don't want JRiver to get a big head and start charging a ton for it, cause I do believe there is a line to cross, especially in the crowded market of media management, but I for one am a huge fan and, so long as they continue the great support here, constant feature additions, and a reasonable price... I'm sure I'll be buying every new version when it's released.

I got a big laugh (for some weird reason) when I saw that they have a chief financial officer for J River.  That shows a few things.  They are big enough to be concerned with their prices.  Their financial officer would not make the mistake of suddenly increasing Media Center's price to $100...that's why they have a CFO.  I'm sure they have done the research to understand the pros and cons of increasing or decreasing MC's price.  A lot of people interested in MC, I believe, are in the higher-end market that typically have more money and are more likely to spend big bucks on home media systems, so $40 or whatever is nothing compared to their other costs: equipment, installation, media, etc!!  It's a BARGAIN!  Not to mention a new public build about every 2 weeks released with lots of fixes and updates!!

Besides, if you quickly calculate how many forum members there are and then assume that at least that many people buy MC--probably many times that--you can see that they probably aren't doing too bad...lol.  Besides, they have other interests with other companies reselling their software in other countries so that obviously brings more money in.  I'm pleased with their price the way it is and am very willing to spend the $20 on each upgrade.

I'm still interested in knowing how often, on average, they go with a version before updating it?  How much longer until version 13???

[TreeFrog77]

...A lot of people interested in MC, I believe, are in the higher-end market that typically have more money and are more likely to spend big bucks on home media systems, so $40 or whatever is nothing compared to their other costs: equipment, installation, media, etc!!

This is one area I think JRiver could get more partners in (if they haven't already)... folks like Homeseer.  Homeseer actually charges $40 just for a plugin that enables their software to control Windows Media Player (which, I paid for).  WMP is nice and all, but from my limited experience on this board, there are a lot of high-end (HUGE library) people here that I bet have all kinds of home automation / zoned audio going on.  This is where I could see JRiver charging for these "higher-end" plugins (or whatever) that would integrate with these home automation systems.

I don't used zoned audio myself (just a good CCrane FM transmitter) but I know a lot of folks in the HA world that do and many of them just aren't aware of JRiver to begin with.  Integration with these products are where (IMHO) they could make some good resell in the high-end market... just don't leave us poor folks behind... hehe.

[benn600]

It sounds like they already have a bunch of stuff like that.  They have some home automation integration with other equipment.  I don't think J River makes money but they provide the API so other people can interface--and J River makes money on MC, obviously, and yes, they may make money from the companies.  When you get to the high end market, I mean yes, you can get fancy hardware but isn't MC about the best software available at any price?

[JimH]

Thanks, Treefrog.

[robydago]

I think some of you got me wrong: I think that at 40 bucks MC12 is dirty cheap! I paid that money and I'm happy with it and I'm also satisfied with the swift support and developement; I'd pay even more than that for all the features it got.

My point was related to the subject "Helping out to spread MC".
It all depends on what's JRiver target size: if for them the niche market of "power users" is enough then I think that a free versions is not needed; but without it no wonder that, for my experience and also reading some of the posts in this forum, the typical answer most of us receive when we tell someone else about it, is: "never heard of it".

I know they also have a market repackaging/customizing MC for other companies, so maybe the numbers there make JRiver happy.

p.s. I have no idea about how many copies of MC have been sold by JRiver so far, my assumption that the numbers are relatively low is based only on the fact that the program is almost unknown.

BTW, I also think that the name of the program is not good and in itself is not helping spread the knowledge of the program; in part 'cause it's too generic and also 'cause it sounds too much as Windows Media Center.

[benn600]

I don't ever hear them complaining and at ~17,000 forum members, hmmm.  You gotta think that at least that many copies have been sold.  The money can really start adding up.

I do totally agree, though, that it is almost completely UNKNOWN.  I haven't met a SINGLE other person who had even heard of it and I know lots of normal/tech people (lol).

I think that at 40 bucks MC12 is dirty cheap!

I agree completely.  It's dirt cheap.  I was saying in another thread that it has led me to spending $15,000 on CDs, DVDs, equipment, etc.., but it was all worth it.  It's like the iPhone.  When you have something that is just plain amazing, I'm willing to spend a lot of extra money.  I think if they were hurting they would just release a new version more often because I know I and a lot of other poeple wouldn't even consider using an older version.  And for $20, LOL.  WHAT A BARGAIN.

[robydago]

I don't ever hear them complaining and at ~17,000 forum members, hmmm.  You gotta think that at least that many copies have been sold.  The money can really start adding up.

First, I guess that, given the target (what  I called "power users"), an higher than avarage (compared to more "normal users" programs) percentage of those users are likely to join a forum.

Second, ~17,000 sounds a very low number to me considering that your potential non-paying target is in the millions (judging by the download numbers of free multimedia sw like winamp and co.)

I do totally agree, though, that it is almost completely UNKNOWN.  I haven't met a SINGLE other person who had even heard of it and I know lots of normal/tech people (lol).

Me too: never met anyone knowing it.
And that's why my suggestions is to make a free version.
With all features and also online services (e.g. Pix01) JRiver has put in MC it woudln't be difficult for them to make even more than two versions.
As an alternative, they could give it away for free for just one day here: http://www.giveawayoftheday.com/.
But I really think that only a free version would make it known and spread (I also think that a name change is necessary...)

[benn600]

But there are a lot of shareware applications that are well known to be the best for certain applications and people can often name the commercial packages that cost money.

I just think the average person doesn't care as much about MC's power.  I like my folders and files being as perfect and accurate as can be so I like the power of tag updating, etc.  Plus, a lot of average users aren't likely to desire such a theater setup as MC can offer because for one thing, they don't know it exists hardly.

And WORSE YET!  I called Best Buy one time asking if they have a standard USB remote control.  I told them I'm using J River Media Center.  He told me they have a Windows Media Center remote and that it only works with Windows Media Center and he was being very strange--almost denying that J River Media Center even existed.  I must have meant Microsoft Media Center.  It was a stressful conversation.  I took my business elsewhere (newegg) and got a great remote for $30.  Each button is customizable to keyboard presses so I can make each button operate flawlessly in MC.

[ThoBar]

(I also think that a name change is necessary...)

I have to agree, purely for the purpose of disambiguation, if nothing else. Or try and force MS to change theirs (if nothing else it's bound to create a lot of interest and "advertising")

[brossmac]

I have probably mentioned this before, but I TOTALLY agree about the name.  It's just not sexy enough to attract people's interest and too similar to Windows "Media Player".

I used to work for a company that did product naming (it was staffed completely by linguists).  And we would have people coming to us and wanting a name that was a variation of the competition.  They never worked.  A product needs to stand out.

Look at some of the most successful ventures around these days: Google, Yahoo, YouTube, MySpace, Facebook, Skype, Wikipedia.  This isn't to say if they were called "Internet Search Central" they wouldn't be complete busts, but something about those names gets your attention.  They're fun to talk about.  When people hear them they go, "What's that?", encouraging people to talk about it.  This increases word-of-mouth and viral marketing....

So maybe they should call it    

Also, maybe a 45 or 60 day trial.  I think it takes quite a long time to realize all the features of this behemoth (heck, most of us long-timers are still finding new things!).

And maybe assigning each new downloader a mentor from the folks here.  Somebody who can drop an email after a week or so and say "So, have you tried X or Y yet?  Isn't it cool?"

[benn600]

You sure have good ideas!  That's an interesting idea to rename it because they just renamed it a few years back from Media Jukebox to Media Center.

[robydago]

I just think the average person doesn't care as much about MC's power.

I agree: that's why the free version could easily be less powerful than the current MC but still very usable for "common" people.

[...] almost denying that J River Media Center even existed.  I must have meant Microsoft Media Center. 

and that shows why a name change is required

[modelmaker]

The problem is what name could possibly do MC justice?

How about putting ads in audio/video mags?

For a free up-to-date version of the Jukebox, use a modified version of the players JR supplies to other companies?

[JimH]

The name Media Center has significant value.  Try these searches for Media Center:

google search  #2

yahoo search  #3

At wikipedia, the article on Media Center begins:

This article is about media centers in general. For the Microsoft application, see Windows Media Center. For the product by JRiver, see Media Center (software application).

[benn600]

However, making a free version would take development time away from their team and besides, they could easily lose current customers if their stripped down program is good enough.  Plus, demo users of the free program wouldn't experience the power of MC if they crippled it but if they didn't, they'd be giving away too much.  It just seems horribly complex.

[brossmac]

The name Media Center has significant value.  Try these searches for Media Center:

google search  #2

yahoo search  #3

At wikipedia, the article on Media Center begins:

Jim,

I see what you're saying, but is this sort of begging the question?  This assumes that people looking for the software search for "Media Center".  If I search for "windows mp3 software" or "media player" JRM isn't anywhere near the top.  Now, I am trying to step into the head of somebody searching for software to figure out what search term(s) they are most likely to use.  What are the words or phrases that come to mind?  I guess the term "media center" doesn't seem to be in common parlance that I know of.  Perhaps among the target market that JR seeks this is a phrase that strikes a chord.  It does seem to be more ubiquitous among multimedia buffs, home automation junkies, etc.  I'm just thinking of the potential market of regular folks who aren't techies but would really like the range of features that MC has to offer if they had some exposure to it.

I'm not trying to question your reasoning or marketing strategy.  Just offering some thoughts.  I tend to think about this kind of stuff because it raises interesting cognitive and linguistic issues which I find interesting.

On a somewhat related note, I run a website for a band called "Self" and if you want to deal with a term that is not search engine friendly (as far as disambiguation is concerned) that's near the top of the list.

[JimH]

I'm not trying to question your reasoning or marketing strategy. 

Please do.  We need the help.

On a somewhat related note, I run a website for a band called "Self" and if you want to deal with a term that is not search engine friendly (as far as disambiguation is concerned) that's near the top of the list.

  All names have their downsides.  The names Yahoo and google are pretty close in spirit.  What's made them different is the companies behind them and their ability to market.  Plenty of other cheeky, goofy names followed their companies into the dustbin.

[rjm]

My two bits...

Nobody I have met has heard of MC until I tell them about it. Turning up the volume on the JRiver brand and turning down the volume on the ubiquitous Media Center name might be a good idea.

Key differentiators should be pushed more:
- best for big & diverse libraries
- best organizing/viewing/playing tools
- best iPod support
- best customer support and rate of enhancement

I personally think you should charge more. $40 sends a toy message, not a professioanl quality application message.