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[steveklein]

Hey guys... Well, i am trying out Media Center 12 and if it can do what I need it to do, then I will smile and purchase the software. Anyways...

I've got a massive collection of music (about 5,000 full albums from my personal collection) that have all been ripped and tagged by yours truly over the years. When I loaded the library into MC12, it fared just ok. What I have is about 5,000 albums with about 1,000 having artwork loaded for them. every other album is tagged correctly and I was just curious why it didn't pull off a lot more covers. Of the 5,000 I would expect half of them to be pretty common, and most of the rest somewhat obscure but still out there in databases. There's really only a handful that are rare enough that I can understand not having covers out there.

Is there a simple solution given that all the artists and albums are tagged.

For what it is worth, I am embedding all the album covers into the mp3s... and I think I will also keep a localcopy in the Artist- Album format in each individual folder. Which brings me to another point? Where in the heck are all the .jpgs on my hard disk that this art is from? The reason I ask is because when I went out to the directory that I thought all the thumbnails would be stored at, I didn't find them.

[KingSparta]

I've got a massive collection of music (about 5,000 full albums from my personal collection)

Not Massive, But A Nice Collection

There Are Many Users In The Forum That Have 2 Times That And Some More.

I Have Found That J. Rivers Media Center Is The Only Program That Can Handle Very Large Collections Like Ours.

I Have Several Libraries One With Over 300,000 Mp3's In it.

With This You May See Reduced Performance, But That Also Will Depend On Your CPU, And Memory. However JRiver Has Added Many Enhancements For Speed In MC12 That Were Not Available In Earlier versions.

>> For what it is worth, I am embedding all the album covers into the mp3s
Not A Issue

>> Where in the heck are all the .jpgs on my hard disk
Depends On Your Setting, There Is A Place To Configure This In The Settings.

Tools > Options > File Location

[richard.e.morton]

I have 2500 albums and 33000 tracks with no issue
R

[rjm]

For large libraries, nothing comes close to MC.

[glynor]

Are you just commenting on the accuracy and performance of the automatic Cover Art lookup system inside MC?

If so, I'd have to agree slightly, but only probably because users of MC haven't submitted enough cover art of their own to the system.  MC does not use the Gracenote (CDDB) database, due to licensing cost and issues, so it'll get different results than some other applications (which is both good and bad).  It uses it's own YADB database, which I find extremely accurate, though less comprehensive than others.  Users like me and you can submit our own tags and make the YADB database better, but you have to do it actively (it doesn't happen automatically).

MC does have a bunch of nice tools that make adding cover art manually extremely easy though.

The one I use the most is the copy/paste from clipboard function.  Google Images, Amazon.com, or AMG can easily provide cover art for pretty much any album there is.  I have a Send To --> External search set up for each of those.  When I need to find cover art while tagging a new album, I simply select a file, Send To --> External --> Google Images Artist - Album (or Amazon or AMG).  Then on that page, I open the full-resolution image, right click, Copy Image.  Then switch back to MC, and Right Click --> Cover Art  --> Paste From Clipboard.

If you want to know how to add Web Sites to the Send To --> External menu, try a search on the forums and ask if you can't figure it out.

[hit_ny]

I Have Several Libraries One With Over 300,000 Mp3's In it.

With This You May See Reduced Performance, But That Also Will Depend On Your CPU, And Memory. However JRiver Has Added Many Enhancements For Speed In MC12 That Were Not Available In Earlier versions.

The speedup with 12 is apparent over 11.

Is that 300k file library usable in 12 or do you still have to break it up into smaller subsets ?

Your specs from what i recall were for a mid-range system.

[JONCAT]

Where does your library reside? NAS or local drives?

System specs? Ram?

I've got about a terybyte's worth of Audio, Images, & Video in one library; is pretty snappy.

DC

[jack wallstreet]

I often shorten the full names of albums to keep filenames shoreter.  This often causes the MC database to not find cover art, even when it is there.  Using the less precise option for finding a file sometimes helps, but usually not.  When that happens I simply use Amazon or other sources as discussed in this thread.

[rjm]

Are you just commenting on the accuracy and performance of the automatic Cover Art lookup system inside MC?

If so, I'd have to agree slightly, but only probably because users of MC haven't submitted enough cover art of their own to the system.  MC does not use the Gracenote (CDDB) database, due to licensing cost and issues, so it'll get different results than some other applications (which is both good and bad).  It uses it's own YADB database, which I find extremely accurate, though less comprehensive than others.  Users like me and you can submit our own tags and make the YADB database better, but you have to do it actively (it doesn't happen automatically).

MC does have a bunch of nice tools that make adding cover art manually extremely easy though.

The one I use the most is the copy/paste from clipboard function.  Google Images, Amazon.com, or AMG can easily provide cover art for pretty much any album there is.  I have a Send To --> External search set up for each of those.  When I need to find cover art while tagging a new album, I simply select a file, Send To --> External --> Google Images Artist - Album (or Amazon or AMG).  Then on that page, I open the full-resolution image, right click, Copy Image.  Then switch back to MC, and Right Click --> Cover Art  --> Paste From Clipboard.

If you want to know how to add Web Sites to the Send To --> External menu, try a search on the forums and ask if you can't figure it out.

Glynor, nice tips on using Send To External. I learn something new about MC every day.

When adding cover art I prefer to first save the image to disk and then Add from File (rather than copy/paste from clipboard as you suggest). Adding an image from a file allows me to check the size of the cover art before I imbed it in the mp3. My preferred cover art is 200x200 ranging in size from 10kb to 20kb. This provides adequate thumbnail quality while not overly bloating the mp3.

[hit_ny]

Add Image to File won't embed it in the mp3 unless

Options->File Location->Cover Art->Also store image in File's tag

is enabled.

Default for me is *not* enabled so its just a filename reference stored in the [Image File] field in the library, and consequently no limit on image quality used.

[rjm]

Yes, I understand. I prefer to imbed the artwork because it makes things more neat and tidy and I never run into cover art sync problems reported by many other users.

[glynor]

When adding cover art I prefer to first save the image to disk and then Add from File (rather than copy/paste from clipboard as you suggest). Adding an image from a file allows me to check the size of the cover art before I imbed it in the mp3. My preferred cover art is 200x200 ranging in size from 10kb to 20kb. This provides adequate thumbnail quality while not overly bloating the mp3.

I used to, until I realized that Google Images shows pixel dimensions for the image results it shows.... For example, this is a search I did just now (for an album I hadn't bothered to collect cover art on previously).

It's pretty easy to hit the 300x300 image (which is the size I usually go for), click the Show Full Sized Image link in the page that appears, right-click, copy, etc, etc...

[rjm]

I used to, until I realized that Google Images shows pixel dimensions for the image results it shows.... For example, this is a search I did just now (for an album I hadn't bothered to collect cover art on previously).

It's pretty easy to hit the 300x300 image (which is the size I usually go for), click the Show Full Sized Image link in the page that appears, right-click, copy, etc, etc...

Another great tip. Thanks.

[KingSparta]

Is that 300k file library usable in 12 or do you still have to break it up into smaller subsets ?

Well It Like I Said Is A Bit Slower, And I Know You Can't Get A Square Peg In A Round Hole.

Maybe When We Get The Living Room Finished (New Floor, Paint Etc..) I Can Finally Get My Wife To Let Me Buy A New Computer.

[hit_ny]

You shouldn't need a new computer for your mp3s.

i really doubt there would be much difference, at least not as much as the speedup going from v11--->v12.

you have a 3Ghz with 1GB+ of RAM, if MC is sluggish on those specs with as large a library then that's as far as MC can go.

[KingSparta]

You shouldn't need a new computer for your mp3s.

i really doubt there would be much difference, at least not as much as the speedup going from v11--->v12.

you have a 3Ghz with 1GB+ of RAM, if MC is sluggish on those specs with as large a library then that's as far as MC can go.

I doubt It...

[richard.e.morton]

Are you just commenting on the accuracy and performance of the automatic Cover Art lookup system inside MC?

If so, I'd have to agree slightly, but only probably because users of MC haven't submitted enough cover art of their own to the system.  MC does not use the Gracenote (CDDB) database, due to licensing cost and issues, so it'll get different results than some other applications (which is both good and bad).  It uses it's own YADB database, which I find extremely accurate, though less comprehensive than others.  Users like me and you can submit our own tags and make the YADB database better, but you have to do it actively (it doesn't happen automatically).

I have commented about this elsewhere but here is my 2p.

1. YADB is not a big enough db, I understand the licensing problem and it is up to us to change this, so.. everyone, sort out your cover art and tags, select all and upload info to YADB!   But...
2. My m4a's with cover art, the cover art can't be submitted, MC just fails to send them (I do have quicktime installed), is this just my install or do others see this as well? If you can't submit data from common file types it's going to make it hard to get the DB populated.
3. I think it would be nice if you could turn on an option to automatically upload changes to tags at various points (like after inserting a cd and it looks up the data in YADB, then you make an alteration before the track gets ripped, surely that alteration should go back into the YADB pot automatically).

Rich

[jmone]

I tend to use MSMP for my ripping as it is more complete for me down here in Oz, but I'm also keen to help populate YADB with any missing tag and album info but I've a couple of Q's:
1) Does the process of submitting track info to YADB also send the Album Art or do you also have to submit this seperatly (using "Submit to Internet")
2) Can I just select my whole library and submit it to YADB?  If so will YADB reject any poorly taged info, keep on YADB any previously submitted tags that are either more complete or just there first, OR will YADB become overwritten by any poor/missing tags I'm submitting

Can I check (or would it make sence to add) an option under Auto Import that allows MC12 to automatically submits track info and cover art to YADB?

Thanks
Nathan

 

[rjm]

I used to, until I realized that Google Images shows pixel dimensions for the image results it shows.... For example, this is a search I did just now (for an album I hadn't bothered to collect cover art on previously).

It's pretty easy to hit the 300x300 image (which is the size I usually go for), click the Show Full Sized Image link in the page that appears, right-click, copy, etc, etc...

Glynor,

I did some tests using your tip with Google Images. The size of the image reported by Google does not seem to be accurate. When I "save as" a Google image reported to be 14kb and then inspect the file with Explorer it is actually 3.5kb. Perhaps IE is recompressing during the "save as" operation? In any case, I think I will continue my method of first saving to a file so that I can more accuratley predict mp3 bloat. I just finished tagging an audio book consisting of 460 mp3 files. The difference of a few kb in image size can have a significant impact on the total size increase caused by imbedding an image.

[hit_ny]

I doubt It...

Right, if you did not have to save bios & lyrics as tags, then the library is smaller.

Instead...if there was way to associate them like with images, then you get more library speed.

Is there any reason to have them saved in library tags ?

..yeah the odd lyrics search might be lacking but you could use other tools for text searching.

[HTPC4ME]

Id like to comment on this post....

I have put many posts about thumbnail issues in to the forum here. I use to store images inside my files as well, and had issues, then i redid my whole library with putting thumbnails next to music files and choosing folder.jpg.

Now my issue is this.... please see this post. http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=42646.0

We have worked it out to maybe windows mediaplayer, and me about a month ago adding all files into it so i could stream to my 360. But ive not done anything with it yet cause i dont know appropriate way of fixing it yet and i dont want to screw up my files any worse then they are and loose my covers i worked days on.

So i ve not turned or played any music in jriver since this issue arose except for testing. Cause im not going to spend days searching amazon to fill in my thumbnails again, and going through every single folder to see if they have disappeared or not.

have i been doing this the right way? (it seems to have worked flawlessly and held my thumbnails until i added to windwos media player to stream) do you guys suggest to switch back to put images in mp3's?

I'd GREATLY appreciate any ideas..

Thank You

P.S. Glynor how do i use the YADB? where is it? so that i can contribute my library to help others find thumbnails they may need? (once i get it fixed again of course)

[rjm]

Id like to comment on this post....

I have put many posts about thumbnail issues in to the forum here. I use to store images inside my files as well, and had issues, then i redid my whole library with putting thumbnails next to music files and choosing folder.jpg.

Now my issue is this.... please see this post. http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=42646.0

We have worked it out to maybe windows mediaplayer, and me about a month ago adding all files into it so i could stream to my 360. But ive not done anything with it yet cause i dont know appropriate way of fixing it yet and i dont want to screw up my files any worse then they are and loose my covers i worked days on.

So i ve not turned or played any music in jriver since this issue arose except for testing. Cause im not going to spend days searching amazon to fill in my thumbnails again, and going through every single folder to see if they have disappeared or not.

have i been doing this the right way? (it seems to have worked flawlessly and held my thumbnails until i added to windwos media player to stream) do you guys suggest to switch back to put images in mp3's?

I'd GREATLY appreciate any ideas..

Thank You

P.S. Glynor how do i use the YADB? where is it? so that i can contribute my library to help others find thumbnails they may need? (once i get it fixed again of course)

I have no experience with storing artwork in separate folder.jpg files. I decided from the outset that this approach was inherently more complex, and therefore more likely to fail, especially if I ever decided to switch media players. Storing the artwork inside an mp3 is clean, simple, and avoids any possible problems when moving files and folders around. I have never had a problem with artwork being displayed in either MC or my iPod. On the other hand, lots of people choose the separate folder.jpg approach so it must work in most cases.

If I were you I would do some basic maintenance first to see if this solves your problem:

1) backup your library before starting
2) Check your auto-import options to ensure:
- root folder(s) for all your music is/are selected
- for each root folder, check folder specific options: ignore files previously removed is off; ignore special files is off
- run auto-import in background is off
- build thumbnails is on
- fix broken links: yes (protect network files)
- update for external changes is on
3) exit MC
4) restart MC
5) execute \Tools\Run Auto-Import Now and wait for it to finish
6) have a look at the summary report when auto-import finishes - if it reports files were added or removed or corrected then you know something is buggered in your library and/or media files - if problems exist, select the detailed view of the report and carefully review it to see if you can get any insight into what might be the root cause of your problem - this has worked for me many times and is to my knowledge the only known method for confirming the integrity of a library and associated media files
7) check to see if your artwork problems have been corrected

If this did not solve your problem, then I would get more aggressive and repeat above but first execute
\Tools\Options\Tree & View\Thumbnails\Erase all Thumbnails

If this still did not solve your problem, then I would double check your understanding of how to store artwork in external files. Suggest you post the directory contents of one of your album folders so we can review and comment.

Good luck.

[HTPC4ME]

thanks RJM
did you by chance check out my other post i included? it shows pictures of my issue. or is that not what you were talking about ---> (Suggest you post the directory contents of one of your album folders so we can review and comment.)

just curious... i want to understand you correctly before i start diiving into this.

[benn600]

If so, I'd have to agree slightly, but only probably because users of MC haven't submitted enough cover art of their own to the system.

How does submitting cover art work?  You may recall I hand-scanned in every album in my collection and have close to 1,100 CDs with 1200x1200 great looking cover art--which I also cleaned up to some extent.  If I upload cover art, what happens to it?  Does it get stored on the J River YADB servers?  Does it get resized?  Will other people start downloading the same JPGs that I am using?  What if stuff I have is already in their database?

[rjm]

thanks RJM
did you by chance check out my other post i included? it shows pictures of my issue. or is that not what you were talking about ---> (Suggest you post the directory contents of one of your album folders so we can review and comment.)

just curious... i want to understand you correctly before i start diiving into this.

I had another look at the other thread and it appears you are doing things correctly. Just to be certain there is no problem with the jpg, I would go into Explorer and double click folder.jpg to ensure Sinatra's artwork displays correctly. If it checks out then I would run the above basic maintenance procedure.

[dcwebman]

How does submitting cover art work?  You may recall I hand-scanned in every album in my collection and have close to 1,100 CDs with 1200x1200 great looking cover art--which I also cleaned up to some extent.  If I upload cover art, what happens to it?  Does it get stored on the J River YADB servers?  Does it get resized?  Will other people start downloading the same JPGs that I am using?  What if stuff I have is already in their database?

From what I understand the biggest size wins when uploading cover art so most likely your cover art would overwrite all the same cover arts that already exist. Then the next time somebody tries to get cover art, they'd get your big size. In my case that means I would then have to resize all my cover art after it got new ones since I prefer the 500x500 size.

Once again, it sure would be nice if YADB had multiple versions for the same album, especially since there can be multiple versions of the same album, not just sizes.

[glynor]

I did some tests using your tip with Google Images. The size of the image reported by Google does not seem to be accurate. When I "save as" a Google image reported to be 14kb and then inspect the file with Explorer it is actually 3.5kb.

I just did a number of tests with a bunch of different pictures from Google Images, and the file sizes reported by Google were all reasonably accurate.  I did my tests using both Firefox and IE6.

Make sure you are doing it correctly.  You cannot do the Save Picture As on the Google page.  You need to:

1. Search on Google Images, and select an appropriate picture.
2. Open that image by clicking on the thumbnail in the Google Images results.
3. Then click the "See Full Size Image" link shown in the frame Google inserts on the top of the page
4. Finally, save the picture that appears in a page all by itself by choosing "Save Image As" (actually, Copy Image).

EDIT: I also tested adding an image via the Copy/Paste method, and via the Save To File/Add From File method, and they produced identical file size changes.  However, I only tested this process using Firefox.  I suppose it is possible that IE uses a different method of copying the image data to the clipboard.  Perhaps it copies the decompressed raw image data rather than the compressed data, though this seems very unlikely.

[rjm]

Then click the "See Full Size Image" link shown in the frame Google inserts on the top of the page

I did some tests and confirmed that save as in IE7 works as expected when I follow the above.

Thanks for explaining this Glynor.

[benn600]

I'm still hoping they add cover art resizing.  Yes, I understand your desire dcwebman to resize to 500x500 but I'm guessing this is probably mainly for saving space on a portable player?  Maybe not but I can't see why you'd be worried about HDD space.  You shouldn't store it in each file to save space.

All the YADB upgrades and multiple cover art copies would be great feature requests.

I personally wouldn't benefit at all from better cover art storage on their servers because I've scanned all but ONE CD so far and I'm not about to stop.  Anyone dare to ask what CD it was?

[richard.e.morton]

I'm still hoping they add cover art resizing.  Yes, I understand your desire dcwebman to resize to 500x500 but I'm guessing this is probably mainly for saving space on a portable player?  Maybe not but I can't see why you'd be worried about HDD space.  You shouldn't store it in each file to save space.

All the YADB upgrades and multiple cover art copies would be great feature requests.

I personally wouldn't benefit at all from better cover art storage on their servers because I've scanned all but ONE CD so far and I'm not about to stop.  Anyone dare to ask what CD it was?

ok, so what was it?

[benn600]

Just plain lol.

It was
Born & Raised (On Rock & Roll)
Beau Coup
http://www.amazon.com/Born-Raised-Rock-Roll-Beau/dp/B000001O8Y

Don't have any clue where we got it but we don't have cover art for it.  No longer for sale and used copies are $40 or more.  It's not worth that.  I found a reasonable cover art image, 800x800 or so.  I went through and removed a few other singles and random discs that accumulated without cover art.  This is the last one.  I'm seriously considering removing it.  I don't think anyone has ever really focused on it/really likes or knows that they like it.