Topic: Enter in Theater View (Read 4542 times)

benn600 · « **on:** February 03, 2008, 12:10:35 am »

Can I get the enter key (in theater view) to immediately select items instead of bringing up the context menu? It is nice to have the extra functionality but it would be nice to turn it off for most uses to speed things up quite a bit (one button push instead of two). What about a left-side button to enable Context/Advanced mode? Then it could be enabled or disabled on screen.

raym · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2008, 12:53:01 am »

Quote from: benn600 on February 03, 2008, 12:10:35 am

What about a left-side button to enable Context/Advanced mode? Then it could be enabled or disabled on screen.

I like this idea. Dunno if it'll catch on though.

benn600 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2008, 12:54:39 am »

My 2,500th post!

I remember when MC12 first came out (I think) there was no context menu. It was a pleasing change from MC11. This is important enough to justify an option I think. Even a theater view changeable option (like I suggested).

bil1010105 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2008, 03:43:19 am »

I second this. The context menu (whilst useful in some cases) is extremely jarring and not what you expect to happen when you select an item in Theatre View. It just doesn't feel right.

Please, make it an option to turn it off.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2008, 07:55:39 am »

I have also asked for this alot of times. Removing this annoying menu would be good, as most of the times you just want to drill down.
In some cases though, the menu is needed. So another button should probably be used instead imo.
Not sure if it would work by adding more buttons on the left menu. Much back and forth it you use thumbnail view I think.

Back in the days this was not such an annoyance, as the space worked as "play selected". Now it allways plays all in current view. And I need to access that menu when I just want to paly a playlist etc.

benn600 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2008, 10:21:38 am »

Wait: what if the button is HELD? My remotes have a lot of options as far as what happens when the button is held so I would have to look at their settings. They may need more configuration to work with holding. But that seems like a good choice. Right now, it's always--double tap the button.

1. Hold the button to get the context menu.
2. Left-side option called "Context" or "Advanced" mode. Could place under an item. Consider adding "Option" to allow basic changes to theater view! Almost a 10-foot settings page.
3. In MC's settings, add a checkbox to turn it off for "Enter."

Of course I completely understand that mouse clicking the item does not display the menu. Wonder if I could configure my remotes to somehow click what is selected? Probably not!

MrHaugen · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2008, 10:47:53 am »

Quote from: benn600 on February 03, 2008, 10:21:38 am

Wait: what if the button is HELD? My remotes have a lot of options as far as what happens when the button is held so I would have to look at their settings. They may need more configuration to work with holding. But that seems like a good choice. Right now, it's always--double tap the button.

Of course I completely understand that mouse clicking the item does not display the menu. Wonder if I could configure my remotes to somehow click what is selected? Probably not!

I don't think holding down a button is a normal possiblity for a remote. I might be wrong. Just have not seen any to date.

As for the mouse click on the selected item... Try it out. It works like this for me and my remote. Just highlight a line or a thumbnail and hit left mouse button.
The only reason I don't use it much is that it's placed rather uncomfortably away from the arrow buttons.

benn600 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2008, 01:19:33 pm »

Well, I'm at an unfair advantage. I found the best remotes available on the market. (lol)

Mine let me control every detail from what buttons are pushed to if they repeat and how quickly they do. I can customize it to a great extent. So no matter what kind of "hold" is added, I can probably get my remotes to work correctly. And then I can distribute my new remote file around the house to all our remote receivers. It's a very nice system.

raym · « **Reply #8 on:** February 03, 2008, 07:59:50 pm »

I think the bottom line with all this as far as JRiver are concerned is that Theater View navigation should be completely possible using just the 5 main buttons on a remote, ie arrows + enter. So the problem then becomes, how do you enable Theater View's full functionality with just these 5 buttons? The answer as it stands currently is the popup menu at every stage of navigation.

I happen to agree with this approach in general but I also think an advanced user option to only show the menu at the file-list level of a view scheme (when Enter is pressed) would work for most people. The VK_APPS key could then continue to function as it does today and allow advanced users to map this to a button on their remote and activate the menu at any stage in the view hierarchy as required.

Thanks.

)p( · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2008, 06:14:00 am »

Quote from: raym on February 03, 2008, 07:59:50 pm

I think the bottom line with all this as far as JRiver are concerned is that Theater View navigation should be completely possible using just the 5 main buttons on a remote, ie arrows + enter. So the problem then becomes, how do you enable Theater View's full functionality with just these 5 buttons? The answer as it stands currently is the popup menu at every stage of navigation.

I like it this way as it is. So hopefully any chances made to it will be optional.

peter

raym · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2008, 06:52:34 am »

Quote from: )p( on February 04, 2008, 06:14:00 am

I like it this way as it is. So hopefully any chances made to it will be optional.

peter

Yep, and as I said, an option should be the only way to go. The system is fine as it is otherwise IMO.

Thanks.

Doof · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2008, 07:49:25 am »

I never have to use the Enter key for navigation. Maybe I just have my view schemes set up differently (they're pretty basic), or I'm just not doing anything that complicated in Theater View, but I just use the Right button to drill down. In the rare case that I need to use the enter key to navigate, it's not that big of a deal to just hit the button twice in quick succession. But I'm honestly at a loss to come up with a time that I need to do that.

Matt · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2008, 01:07:20 pm »

We recommend right / left navigation. You'll have to use details or lineup view, since right / left navigation is not possible with thumbnails.

Peter_T · « **Reply #13 on:** February 04, 2008, 02:00:20 pm »

I find that using the right arrow instead of enter gets me where I want to go in theater view, but I would like to use Enter - I find it more intuitive, too. And I wouldn't have to explain it to guests, girlfriend, etc.

raym · « **Reply #14 on:** February 04, 2008, 05:42:07 pm »

Quote from: Matt on February 04, 2008, 01:07:20 pm

We recommend right / left navigation. You'll have to use details or lineup view, since right / left navigation is not possible with thumbnails.

Yeah, this all mostly relates to when using thumbs which I personally prefer for audio and video views.

Would it be so crazy to provide an advanced option for this though? Ie, Default = how it is, option enabled = how it was (popup menu only on the filelists or last level hierarchy). VK_APPS = always available (as it is) for mapping to an extra remote button as required.

Thanks.

glynor · « **Reply #15 on:** February 05, 2008, 01:02:36 pm »

Please take some time, search the forum, and read the old posts over this same topic before getting deeply into this. This was discussed ad nauseum in the past. It is quite difficult to get an easy-to-use system that is flexible and keeps everyone happy.

Play vs. Add vs. Menu vs. No-menu is a touchy subject.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #16 on:** February 05, 2008, 01:29:57 pm »

Quote from: glynor on February 05, 2008, 01:02:36 pm

It is quite difficult to get an easy-to-use system that is flexible and keeps everyone happy.

Play vs. Add vs. Menu vs. No-menu is a touchy subject.

I know. That's why it would be good with an option for this.
Default, it works good for most people. There should be an alternative though.
I really like raym's idea to add an option to throw this annoying popup away, except for the last level in the hirerarchy.

For thumbnail people like us it would make our day.

Doof · « **Reply #17 on:** February 05, 2008, 01:48:08 pm »

I think, at some point, they need to decide how it's going to work and then it's up to the user to learn the program.

bil1010105 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 05, 2008, 02:58:04 pm »

Quote from: Doof on February 05, 2008, 01:48:08 pm

I think, at some point, they need to decide how it's going to work and then it's up to the user to learn the program.

That's indeed one way to look at it. Another way might be:

I think, at some point, all these little annoyances will eventually add up to me throwing the application in the bin. Why is making it an option such a bad idea / touchy subject?

glynor · « **Reply #19 on:** February 05, 2008, 03:11:26 pm »

Quote from: bil1010105 on February 05, 2008, 02:58:04 pm

Why is making it an option such a bad idea / touchy subject?

The answer amounts to "option overload". The stated goal is to have Theater View completely usable with a remote that only provides 5 keys (4 arrows and an enter key), and to have it work intuitively, without confusing new users or forcing them to dig into an increasingly arcane Options dialog panel.

Not saying I agree with that reasoning (the keep the options dialog simple idea) but that appears to be the reasoning. As I said, there have been quite large, multi-page threads on this exact subject not that long ago (I think well less than a year ago)...

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=40832.0

Doof · « **Reply #20 on:** February 05, 2008, 03:17:03 pm »

Quote from: bil1010105 on February 05, 2008, 02:58:04 pm

I think, at some point, all these little annoyances will eventually add up to me throwing the application in the bin.

Well, that's certainly an option.

Quote

Why is making it an option such a bad idea / touchy subject?

It's not a touchy subject with me. If you'd read all of the threads where it was discussed you'd see it got to be kind of a touchy subject with the guys who wrote the program, though. I think they just got tired of trying to make everybody happy and instead came up with a way that everybody could at least accomplish what they wanted to do. It might not be exactly how everybody wanted to do it, though.

Honestly, for a while, it was getting to be nearly impossible to teach the other denizens of the house how to use the program. Every time a new build came out, Theater View navigation changed and people would have to re-teach their families how to use it. Then one day it was decreed that this was how it was and they really didn't want to hear any more about it. I'm paraphrasing, of course.

Doof · « **Reply #21 on:** February 05, 2008, 03:23:23 pm »

Just for the record, if it were up to me, I'd like the option to strip out a bunch of stuff that's in there. Most of the "Add" variants under the More menu, for starters. But I'm willing to accept it for what it is. At least for version 12.

mhakman · « **Reply #22 on:** February 05, 2008, 04:00:29 pm »

So, here we go again boys and girls!

Quote

Why is making it an option such a bad idea / touchy subject?

IMHO, it is a very good idea. As for the touchy – Doof explains it very well.

Quote

The answer amounts to "option overload". The stated goal is to have Theater View completely usable with a remote that only provides 5 keys (4 arrows and an enter key), and to have it work intuitively, without confusing new users or forcing them to dig into an increasingly arcane Options dialog panel.

If it can be said working right now as above then an option under Options/Theatre View (accessible in Normal View) would not change this “right” way unless the user wants to change it.

I also believe that sometimes you want to Play (selected items), sometimes to Show (drill down), sometimes to Add (to playing queue). Sometimes you want menu, sometimes you don’t. People that I observe and I want most often to drill down when on a folder/group and play when on a single item. This is the way that many other tools work. Sometimes I do use the other actions too.

One solution that has been proposed above is to have the menu popup when you press and hold Enter key (on the keyboard or on remote). This is doable as most remotes and keyboards differentiate between key down and key up events. Therefore an application can measure the time between down and up and make a decision based on that. This need not to be that simple to program as it sounds.

Another solution, perhaps more satisfactory from a generalist point of view would be to have a number of actions such as Play, Shuffle, Show, Menu etc. and then give an advanced user a way to assign what key/button should perform which actions in a specified context. Default could be “show Menu on Enter” which corresponds to current behavior. Another user could say “On Enter key: Show when on a group of files, Play when on a single file; On Menu key: display Menu” This could be combined with “hold Enter” so that holding Enter could be mapped to menu. This is implemented partly in MC right now but not all interesting actions are available and not all keys/buttons/contexts can be specified. In particular, Theatre View actions and MCE remote are not as well supported as one would wish.

Perhaps this is something we will get in MC Version 13.

JimH · « **Reply #23 on:** February 05, 2008, 04:09:49 pm »

I hope you fully realize that anything we might do to Theater View would reduce the time we can spend on Pong.

gappie · « **Reply #24 on:** February 05, 2008, 04:14:12 pm »

be carefull: "The word Pong is a registered trademark of Atari Interactive"

mhakman · « **Reply #25 on:** February 05, 2008, 04:15:08 pm »

What is Pong?

BTW, could I get access to Beta forums again, please – somehow it disappeared for me?

MrHaugen · « **Reply #26 on:** February 05, 2008, 04:53:02 pm »

Would it be that bad to get an "only activate theater view popup menu at file level"? Or better yet (as mhakman mentioned):

Theater View Popup menu default action: Allways active (default)
Only active at file level
Only active at file level and on playlists

Those would suite me great!

All this small tweaks, could and should be hidden in a advanced section somewhere anyway. As you have been doing.
Most important options kept in front, and this small options hidden away. Would make no impact on a first timer imo.
They usually tend to skip the Advanced options anyway right?

raym · « **Reply #27 on:** February 05, 2008, 05:40:30 pm »

Quote from: glynor on February 05, 2008, 01:02:36 pm

Please take some time, search the forum, and read the old posts over this same topic before getting deeply into this. This was discussed ad nauseum in the past. It is quite difficult to get an easy-to-use system that is flexible and keeps everyone happy.

Play vs. Add vs. Menu vs. No-menu is a touchy subject.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I certainly don't want to rock the boat with this stuff given its history. As I've said, I LIKE the system as it is. To be clear, I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with the way the menu works. This is a discussion about how often it is presented during normal navigation only. To satisfy everyone, I thought an option for this might do the trick. If this meant compromising the way the menu worked though I'd say "forget it!" but I don't see why it should.

Cheers.

skeeterfood · « **Reply #28 on:** February 05, 2008, 09:49:13 pm »

I think the fact that this keeps popping up just reinforces that the current interface still needs some refining. I for one, would LOVE the configuration control MrHaugen suggested. Bury it as deep as you want, I'll find it!

-John

MrHaugen · « **Reply #29 on:** February 13, 2008, 04:07:22 am »

I really hope pong will not get low priority because of this, but are there any chance of a change here?

Peter_T · « **Reply #30 on:** February 14, 2008, 01:13:58 pm »

Is there any way to switch the right-arrow button and the enter button? 3rd party software, etc? I think the right-arrow does exactly what I would like enter to do, and enter does basically what I feel right arrow should do.

benn600 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 15, 2008, 09:03:17 am »

How about a full game interface in MC? That would be neat if MC had some typical games like Tetris, Cards, and a racing game or two.

glynor · « **Reply #32 on:** February 15, 2008, 10:02:37 am »

Now Tetris I would actually play!!

benn600 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 16, 2008, 01:19:08 pm »

I found this nice site online that had tens of games with nice graphics (to click on) and allowed their games to be easily saved. I downloaded them all and created a personal games page. I don't tell many people but the people I tell really like it because it has lots of simple, Tetris like games and obviously no ads. The whole page is just same-sized buttons to open different games. Very handy for the typical boring day...although I don't play games that often.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Enter in Theater View (Read 4542 times)