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[kartman]

OK... I've not been at MC12 for very long and I finally got around to trying to get my PS3 to use the uPnP server... no luck.

From searching the forums here, I can't seem to find a post that says "it doesn't work" or "yes, it works but you have to adjust this and that".

So, the what is the answer? If it's "it doesn't work", is there a plan to correct this? If not, I guess JRiver has gotten my money and I'll be abandoning the product for something that does. This would be unfortunate and disappointing (not to mention a waste of $$$).

Please advise.

Thanx

[BartMan01]

To the best of my knowledge (and personal attempts):  MC12 does not currently work with the PS3 or the XBox 360.  I think the PS3 worked on a previous firmware, but the latest firmware broke the streaming again.  It is not something JRiver are ignoring, but going out of their way to support non-standard UPnP devices when the manufacturer keeps moving the playing field is not a high priority for them (from what I have seen).  There are programs (like TVersity) whose sole purpose is to make the streaming work to these devices and who spend lots of time and effort keeping it working after every new firmware release/dashboard update.

If you give up on MC12 just for this - you will be missing out on the best media management/organization/whatever software around.  There are plenty of specific features that other programs do 'better' (streaming to closed UPnP platforms included), and that I wish were in MC12.  However, I use those products in concert with MC12 - leaving MC12 to be my main management tool for audio/video.  I will probably start using it for my non-photography image management too - my photography related image needs are too specialized for MC (as it stands today).

[John Gateley]

Thanks for the excellent answer, BartMan. -- j

[JimH]

I don't agree with you, Bart, about how relentless we've been in pursuing UPnP.  We've put a lot more time into it than we should have.  The standard isn't implemented uniformly, so we often need to "customize" for a given player.

That said, if anyone wants to help, here's how (quoting John Gateley):

1) System Logging: Help->Logging and check "Output to a log file".
You can log all events, or at least "Reader" and "Sharing Plugins" events.
These settings are persistent, you only need to set them once.
After a problem occurs, click on "Click to email log files" to
send them to me.


2) UPnP Logging: in the tree (on the left) expand "Services & Plug-ins",
then click on "UPnP Server". Click on options, and then check "Log
File Requests". There's more info in the wiki here:
http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/UPnP_Server#Options
After a problem occurs, copy-and-paste this text and e-mail it to me.


3) Wireshark (or Ethereal) sniff: there's instructions in the wiki
here:
http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/Sharing_Plug-in_Debugging_Hints
Again, I'll need the sniff file after a problem occurs.

It's easiest for me to have "clean runs". Start Media Center, make
the problem happen as quickly as possible, and then send me all
three logs.
[/gateley]

Mail the logs, with a link to this thread, to gateley at jriver com.

[BartMan01]

I don't agree with you, Bart, about how relentless we've been in pursuing UPnP.  We've put a lot more time into it than we should have.  The standard isn't implemented uniformly, so we often need to "customize" for a given player.

Didn't mean to imply that you haven't/don't work hard to implement UPnP or that JRiver doesn't care about it - just that from where I stand it does not appear to be a high priority item right now (compared to the other features being worked on).  I state this because unless I have missed a thread to the contrary, the stance on 360 streaming has been 'it's a closed platform and we aren't planning on supporting it'.  As to the PS3, I have sent in log files and wireshark sniffs and offered any additional assistance to help get it working - never got a reply.  If I am mistaken in this view then I stand to be corrected.

I'm not even sure it makes sense right now to spend a lot of time/effort/money on UPnP.  As a consumer, all I see is set top boxes with limited CODEC support and that requires proprietary software to even make work properly.  The 360 requires two different methods of getting content to it (media connect and media center) depending on the file type.  The PS3 is flaky as a streaming device (often doesn't see files that is supports and frequently stops/sutters mid file when the 360 does not), plus it has limited 5.1 support compared to the 360 (other than specific file types it down mixes 5.1 to 2.0 - and it did that to all file based video until the last update).

UPnP streaming is one of those concepts that is great in theory, but weak in execution.  Another case where fear of upsetting the big media companies has resulted in sub-par products that go out of their way to satisfy Hollywood at the expense of the consumers.

[John Gateley]

As to the PS3, I have sent in log files and wireshark sniffs and offered any additional assistance to help get it working - never got a reply.

Sorry if you didn't get a reply from me. I've worked with several of y'all sending me sniffs. Unfortunately, it's not a straightforward task, and I eventually get sidetracked by other things. I'd like to get them working one day...

j

[JimH]

Bart,
Xbox is Media Extender, not UPnP, as far as I know.  Similar.  Not the same. 

[BartMan01]

Bart,
Xbox is Media Extender, not UPnP, as far as I know.  Similar.  Not the same. 

According to these guys https://coherence.beebits.net/wiki/XBox it uses UPnP.  I would say it uses it in a non-standard way, but as you state there does not seem to be a standard way of implementing UPnP.
It has two ways of getting content - Media Connect (which uses UPnP), and Media Center (not sure what this uses).  The most frustrating part is that it refuses to play all content from both.  Half of my content will only work with Media Connect, and the other half will only work with Media Center.

[JimH]

We'll take a look, but we think it's about as standard as Microsoft's version of Java.  The CE companies produce two versions of their media receivers -- one for Media Extender, one for UPnP.

[John Gateley]

According to these guys https://coherence.beebits.net/wiki/XBox it uses UPnP.  I would say it uses it in a non-standard way, but as you state there does not seem to be a standard way of implementing UPnP.

While we've had to tweak our UPnP implementation for the different devices, they all attempted to meet the standard. Media Extenders do not try to do this, they specifically break it.

It seems to me I've tried what they suggested before, and had no luck. Also, they mention:

> On connect the XBox does Search requests on the ContentDirectory, no Browse requests.

We don't support searching as of now, because it prevents access to all of Media Center's view schemes and organization.

j

[BartMan01]

Just to be clear - I would much rather JRiver spend time improving stack support and other features than trying to add support for the 360.  If MS can't provide a 'one source' solution for streaming to the 360, it just shows their approach is a case of left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

Back to the original topic though - my offer still stands (since I have a PS3 and MC12) to help in any way that I can.  I have already sent logs/traces in but can re-do them when I have time (prob not till this weekend) if needed.

[eso]

Just for info: with the just released PS3 firmware version 2.20 the playback from the MediaCenter 12 UPnP server works again.

[JimH]

Just for info: with the just released PS3 firmware version 2.20 the playback from the MediaCenter 12 UPnP server works again.

Thanks for reporting that.

[harvey]

Can you please let me know your settings.  I tried last night (for the first time) with the latest firmware but I get a "no tracks found" message.

[eso]

Can you please let me know your settings.  I tried last night (for the first time) with the latest firmware but I get a "no tracks found" message.

I'm using the "Receiver: Advanced" setting with only the options "Skip Child Count" and "Experimental DLNA" enabled. This works for the PS3, Roku Soundbridges, and an Archos 605.

[jmone]

Could I ask someone who has this working to doco the following (and even better add it to the Wiki!)
- PS3 Requirments & Settings / Config
- MC12 Settings / Config
- Windows (XP / Vista) Settings / Configs (eg incl Firewall settings)

I can get my PS3 to see Windows Media Player server (Vista) but not MC12 Media Server

Thanks
Nathan