Topic: Cover Art Problems (Read 9700 times)

benn600 · « **on:** April 08, 2008, 09:36:28 pm »

I looked at the other thread and am impressed with your interface. But in my case, the changes have been causing problems.

I am seeing MC grab cover art from the internet and use it. So I have a gorgeous copy, hand scanned & fixed by me, but MC isn't using it.

Would MC ever upload cover art of a user for any reason without an active request (opt-in or opt-out)?

rickatnight11 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 08, 2008, 11:12:27 pm »

Well mine randomly blew the image up to 500% so it's all grainy. Dunno why.

Alex B · « **Reply #2 on:** April 09, 2008, 04:59:10 am »

Benn600, please check your options. (actually uncheck

)

AoXoMoXoA · « **Reply #3 on:** April 09, 2008, 08:14:35 am »

IMO all this 'automatic' stuff should be OFF by default

Auto-Import
Auto-Get-CoverArt
Auto-Analyze Audio
and any other item that operates in the background in automatic mode.

If it is Off by default it can do no damage to those who do not wish to use it, while those that want it in use lose nothing before they find the "on switch"

it all even reverts to Automatic when cloning a new library from one where this stuff had been turned off

Alex B · « **Reply #4 on:** April 09, 2008, 08:47:01 am »

The "on by default" automatic features don't bother me as long as I can optionally turn them off.

I think the JRiver developers' assumption is that most users want to have these helpful features on by default. I have no idea if that is actually true, but at least Microsoft, Apple and Real Networks provide us player programs that tend to do numerous things automatically under the hood. I think the question is if JRiver should follow this trend or offer an alternative.

Edit: where did the the "know" word come from? --fixed

RhinoBanga · « **Reply #5 on:** April 09, 2008, 09:09:39 am »

I think that a wizard needs to be invoked upon a fresh installation, allowing a user to make these decisions.

I didn't know about any of these options and I auto imported my 90GB library yesterday. I was wondering why my USB HDD's light was still flashing like a 70's disco this morning. I have since found out it's still auto-analysing the audio files.

Doof · « **Reply #6 on:** April 09, 2008, 09:13:55 am »

Quote from: RhinoBanga on April 09, 2008, 09:09:39 am

I think that a wizard needs to be invoked upon a fresh installation, allowing a user to make these decisions.

Well, the install wizard does ask about the online metadata retrieval and submission. Maybe one more screen that asks about all of the "Autos", Auto-Import (maybe even give the option to automatically add the "My Media Folders" location to auto-import or to set it up later), Auto-Audio Analysis (with the option to also turn on Volume Leveling for them).

But whatever they do, I don't think removing the wonderful new cover art system just to please benn600 is the answer.

benn600 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 09, 2008, 10:05:44 am »

How about this brilliant idea? Have a:
[ ] Mostly Manual Mode
[ ] Mostly Automatic Mode

ONE checkbox to handle all the settings that advanced users want--less automatic.

RhinoBanga · « **Reply #8 on:** April 09, 2008, 10:35:36 am »

Don't forget:

[ ] Mostly Harmless

benn600 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 19, 2008, 04:10:51 pm »

Yes, I did. I have those settings set and none of my cover art is getting used. I keep removing it all and quick finding yet MC keeps using the low quality, online versions.

benn600 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 19, 2008, 04:14:31 pm »

I just erased all thumbnails cached and yes, it still gets low quality versions.

All this changing is rewriting all my FLAC files and causing me to have to re-copy about 1.5 terabytes in backups with my backup utility. And not sure if it is just me but MC has been much slower and less stable than I recall. Songs even skip every hour or so. Not sure why that is happening.

JimH · « **Reply #11 on:** April 19, 2008, 04:25:38 pm »

You may have something else going on.

Select a few tracks you know you have art for. Then do a right click/ cover art/ get from Internet. Check which images are being selected (they are highlighted). Select the ones you want.

When you want to, submit them.

benn600 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 19, 2008, 04:37:40 pm »

I blocked yadb.com on my router and one CD finally got the correct cover art. However, as I kept looking, some still had the low res cover art.

The one I was testing seems to have fixed itself...hmm.

JimH · « **Reply #13 on:** April 19, 2008, 04:39:53 pm »

One more thing. Get the latest build from the MC12 board. It has a change that could affect you.

benn600 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 19, 2008, 04:43:45 pm »

481.

MC doesn't seem to be generating thumbnails in the main view (thumbnail large column).

JimH · « **Reply #15 on:** April 19, 2008, 06:00:13 pm »

Quote from: Doof on April 09, 2008, 09:13:55 am

the install wizard does ask about the online metadata retrieval and submission.

Bold added for emphasis.

JimH · « **Reply #16 on:** April 19, 2008, 06:04:19 pm »

Ben,

I edited your posts to remove some of the redundant opinions and to try to understand what you're seeing. I still don't, so if you want to help or convince us there's a problem, please do this:

Copy a couple of directories of music to a new location.

Create a new library and import those files.

Re-create your problem, and give us step by step instructions on how to reproduce it.

Double check what Alex said about settings.

Did you ever try selecting a few files and doing "Get from Internet"? When you do, you need to choose which art you want for each album, or you may get something you don't expect. There are settings there that modify what the system does.

Alex B · « **Reply #17 on:** April 19, 2008, 06:23:31 pm »

Ben, I don't think you are telling all of the story.

- MC does not automatically download cover art if the automatic options are disabled. It does not even connect YADB.
- It cannot automatically find low-res cover art if your system does not have such files.
- Even if the automatic options are enabled MC does not automaticalöly replace cover art if the audio files already have linked or embedded cover art. I.e. if the "Image File" library field contains a value.

I would be very upset if MC would automatically replace my cover art files.

One thing that happens is tag rewriting whenever the cover art link is changed. This is unfortunate and has forced me to disable the general tag writing option each time I want to change cover art.

The thumbnail creation process is not directly related to your cover art file problem. MC always creates thumbnails from the linked or embedded art. The Image File field value is what matters. If the thumbnail creation process has problems it is a different issue.

Please explain exactly how the behavior you are seeing can be reproduced, step by step. Unfortunately we don't have crystal balls so that we could see what you are doing.

Doof · « **Reply #18 on:** April 19, 2008, 11:00:22 pm »

It would be helpful if, at the very least, you'd tell us what folder structure you're using, ie where your music files are located and where the cover art files are stored in relation to the music files and how they're named. What you have set for Options->General->Cover Art would be a bonus.

benn600 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 20, 2008, 09:13:31 am »

I was half assuming everyone was having this problem but they were holding it in.

My overbearing question is why would I use get from internet? The only cover art option I have ever used (ever) is quick find. I think the default was to get cover art from the internet so that may still be lingering. But many of my songs still have downloaded images.

Okay, so I am now creating a brand new library and going to import my library.

After creating a brand new library and importing my music, it worked okay but for a specific example, all my Bowling for Soup albums get this reddish, strange cover. But if I remove cover art and quick find, it works. I guess this is a more involved issue. I'll keep trying different things and post if I discover anything.

Doof · « **Reply #20 on:** April 20, 2008, 09:22:03 am »

And still you don't give us any details...

Quick Find only checks local folders on your hard drive. Specifically, it checks the folder that you have set as the Cover Art location in Options->File Location->Cover Art (I screwed up in my last post and said it was under General), and the folder that the music actually resides in. Have you checked these two locations to see if there is any album art stored there that shouldn't be?

Why you would use Get From Internet (I would think would be obvious) is if you don't have cover art for an album or the art you have is low quality and you want to find out if some kind soul submitted higher quality art to YADB. You use Get From Internet and go through the list comparing what's available to what you have and choose which one you want to use. Unless you run Get From Internet and just click OK when it finishes its lookup (which would just accept the image with the highest number of votes from YADB - IMO a bad idea at the moment until the voting system has a chance to weed out the chaff and push the best stuff to the top), there's no way it's going to just automatically overwrite your local images.

The only place I can see where MC ever automatically downloads album art is in auto-import settings, where, from my experience, it seems to first check for art in the same folder as the music files and the Cover Art location. Only then does it appear to go online to get it. I could be wrong on this, though. I have that option unchecked.

benn600 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 20, 2008, 09:44:58 am »

100% of my CDs have a folder.jpg cover art file that I created. So I would never need the get from internet feature.

This is confusing even me because even with a quick find, it somehow gets downloaded cover art (however that's possible).

John Gateley · « **Reply #22 on:** April 20, 2008, 09:57:36 am »

Quote from: benn600 on April 20, 2008, 09:13:31 am

After creating a brand new library and importing my music, it worked okay but for a specific example, all my Bowling for Soup albums get this reddish, strange cover.

I checked Bowling for Soup - everything looks good. I'm didn't see any "reddish, strange cover".
I don't think Ben's strange covers are coming from YADB.

Ben - please provide more details, as everyone has asked. It would help even to say "The bowling for soup album the great burrito extortion case has a bad cover" and maybe post an image. When you say "all my bowling for soup albums" that gives us very little to go on.

j

benn600 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 20, 2008, 10:07:01 am »

After removing all cover art, MC is now saving tag changes. I'm going to remove and restart then quick find.

But why does it take a good second+ per track? MC used to save track changes at 10 per second! It almost looks like MC is writing the entire file out again. And I have no way to stop the changes so now and I'm afraid if I ended the task a song might get mutilated.

Doof · « **Reply #24 on:** April 20, 2008, 10:14:31 am »

I give up. If you're not willing to provide any details, that you've been asked for repeatedly, then what's the point?

benn600 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 20, 2008, 10:20:43 am »

I've almost given up too because I think I've tried what everyone is going to suggest...but I understand.

Bowling for Soup:
Goes To The Movies
Drunk Enough To Dance
A Hangover You Don't Deserve

All got a reddish, devilish type album cover.

I have it set to folder.jpg method.
All the automatically get cover art options are correctly set (see screen shots above).
I generally use quick find for getting cover art because 100% of my cover art resides in folder.jpg files and I never use Get From Internet.

Using //Chenbro/titanium/Music/ [Artist] / [Album] / [track #] - [Name].flac
for all music.
Then, folder.jpg in album folder.

Doof · « **Reply #26 on:** April 20, 2008, 10:32:39 am »

Finally.

What do you have set for Options -> File Location -> Cover Art

If that's not set to "In the same folder as the file (as Folder.jpg)" then where ever it is set to is where MC is looking when you use Quick Find.

You say you're using the folder.jpg method, but I'm not sure if that means the same as what I said above or if it just means you're putting folder.jpg files in with your music files.

John Gateley · « **Reply #27 on:** April 20, 2008, 03:52:06 pm »

Quote from: benn600 on April 20, 2008, 10:20:43 am

Bowling for Soup:
Goes To The Movies

All got a reddish, devilish type album cover.

Goes to the Movies only has a single art, and it's not reddish/devilish:

It's not coming from YADB...

j

benn600 · « **Reply #28 on:** April 20, 2008, 05:06:41 pm »

Quote

Then, folder.jpg in album folder.

Yes, in the same folder as folder.jpg

Now the problem seems to be getting the large thumbnail field to populate. Hmmm, well, now it is saving tag changes so they are slowly populating. Perhaps clearing and starting somewhat from scratch has helped. I'll keep watching for problems. I can say that it is possibly back to normal but it takes a while of looking to discover if there are discrepancies.

benn600 · « **Reply #29 on:** April 20, 2008, 07:15:42 pm »

I'm pleased to report that things may be back in line with my cover art. Through a combination of removing and quick finding cover art, it looks good now. I'll start another thread with another question (so be sure to find it!)

benn600 · « **Reply #30 on:** April 26, 2008, 10:31:16 am »

It happened again. Just last night I was listening to a particular CD and noticed 100% that it was my cover art that I scanned. Now, today I am listening to the same CD and it is absolutely not the cover art I scanned in. Not sure where it came from but YADB is an obvious possibility.

I'm using the latest version of MC.

Remember that I have several other computers running MC at different times accessing the same library and I do know another user used MC to watch a movie last night so that could be messing up the cover art. Yes, I'm looking for an end all--finally all back to normal--fix.

I just looked up Bowling For Soup -- Drunk Enough to Dance, and yes, it has downloaded low res cover art as well....OH NO!! And MC overwrote the cover art file!!! Now my 1200x1200 is gone!!

benn600 · « **Reply #31 on:** April 26, 2008, 10:42:53 am »

Well, 40.02% of my cover art was overwritten, obviously by Media Center. I now have to manually restore each file. I am then going to make all my cover art Read Only on my server.

benn600 · « **Reply #32 on:** April 26, 2008, 10:52:58 am »

This speaks to the problem I have been asking to have solved. It seems likely that this occurred because another user was not using the latest version of Media Center. I, before, have asked for a system that will absolutely not let MC run unless either a specified or the latest available version is not installed. Of course I'm now undergoing the largest data restoration I have ever endured and because of it will make drastic changes to ensure this never happens again. My plan is to make my cover art files read only.

John Gateley · « **Reply #33 on:** April 26, 2008, 11:12:16 am »

Ben - in the previous go-round, you were sure YADB was providing devilish reddish cover art for your bowling for soup albums. I checked, and it wasn't there. Now you are accusing YADB again.

If you want to work with us to help track down a problem, that's fine, but provide us with accurate information and drop the accusatory tone.

It's certainly possible that we have a bug. But, given that you are the only reporter of this type of issue currently, it's also very possible that something else is changing your cover art.

j

benn600 · « **Reply #34 on:** April 26, 2008, 02:47:19 pm »

My best guess is that a previous version had some less than perfect downloading techniques and those problems seem to have been resolved. My best option at this point seems to be:
1. Update any old versions.
2. Make my cover art read only on the server.

This will undoubtedly solve the problem. It isn't worth spending hours trying to figure this out. Even if we made a discovery I would likely make the above changes because #2 especially absolutely ensures this will never happen again. Cover art never needs read access on client computers anyway. Songs do for modifying tags.

Thanks for the response. Sorry for the accusatory tone.

JimH · « **Reply #35 on:** April 26, 2008, 02:58:00 pm »

You've made a serious accusation, that MC is losing some of your art. We need to get to the bottom of the problem.

Are you using WMP 11? I saw someone post about a known problem with it recently.

How are your covers organized? Are they in the tags?

What version of MC? Please don't say "latest". Give us the build number.

Provide the facts, answer the questions, and keep opinion out of it. Your rants make it hard to see what is happening.

benn600 · « **Reply #36 on:** April 26, 2008, 03:10:49 pm »

I'm using 487. The lost cover art absolutely occurred right after another user opened MC and watched a movie--which is not incredibly common. I have since upgraded the version on that computer, though. Can I tell what version was previously installed? That would be the one causing the problem. The cover art in every case is stored adjacent to the media files as folder.jpg. So each [Artist]/[Album]/.... folder contains a bunch of flac files and ONE folder.jpg file. That is it.

The folder.jpg file gets overwritten. When I do a "folder.jpg" search on my music directory, I can sort by dimension. Anything that is not 1200x1200 was absolutely replaced. Shadow Copy shows me that the previous copy (good version) was saved yesterday at 8PM. Shortly after that time is when the other user opened an older version of MC and it must have replaced the cover art. So I'm now going through the long process of restoring yesterday's 8 PM copy--on my entire music directory. It has already taken 4 hours and looks to take another 6 minimum.

I don't know what more I can say. It's tiring trying to figure this strange issue out.

benn600 · « **Reply #37 on:** April 26, 2008, 04:03:55 pm »

I searched for all my cover art (folder.jpg) and when I select all, right click, security...how do I make all the files read only so they can be read but not written? I am unable to check deny Modify (but not check deny read)...the security section never seems to let me do what I want. It inherits allow all from the music directory.

JimH · « **Reply #38 on:** April 26, 2008, 04:17:14 pm »

Quote from: JimH on April 26, 2008, 02:58:00 pm

Are you using WMP 11? I saw someone post about a known problem with it recently.

JimH · « **Reply #39 on:** April 26, 2008, 04:22:57 pm »

Quote from: benn600 on April 26, 2008, 03:10:49 pm

I'm using 487. The lost cover art absolutely occurred right after another user opened MC and watched a movie--which is not incredibly common. I have since upgraded the version on that computer, though. Can I tell what version was previously installed? That would be the one causing the problem. The cover art in every case is stored adjacent to the media files as folder.jpg. So each [Artist]/[Album]/.... folder contains a bunch of flac files and ONE folder.jpg file. That is it.

The folder.jpg file gets overwritten. When I do a "folder.jpg" search on my music directory, I can sort by dimension. Anything that is not 1200x1200 was absolutely replaced. Shadow Copy shows me that the previous copy (good version) was saved yesterday at 8PM. Shortly after that time is when the other user opened an older version of MC and it must have replaced the cover art. So I'm now going through the long process of restoring yesterday's 8 PM copy--on my entire music directory. It has already taken 4 hours and looks to take another 6 minimum.

I don't know what more I can say. It's tiring trying to figure this strange issue out.

Ben,
Here's what I mean by just stating the facts. [your post edited]

Quote

I'm using 487. The lost cover art occurred right after another user opened MC and watched a movie [with a previous version of MC].

The cover art is stored adjacent to the media files as folder.jpg. So each [Artist]/[Album]/.... folder contains a bunch of flac files and ONE folder.jpg file.

Those are the facts. The rest isn't useful and it makes your posts hard to read. Sorry to be rough about it, but we need to know facts, not opinion.

NOW, if that copy of MC was set to automatically look up cover art, it is possible that it did, and that the results were not what you'd expect. But that is a result of setting it to use automatic lookup and not editing any results.

I still think you have something else going on. That's why I asked about WMP.

benn600 · « **Reply #40 on:** April 26, 2008, 07:00:15 pm »

I may have opened WMP at most once over the life of this system install and it is WMP9. I have upgraded to newer versions on previous system installs but I never use it so I stopped bothering with upgrades.

Eccles · « **Reply #41 on:** April 26, 2008, 11:10:54 pm »

Quote from: benn600 on April 26, 2008, 04:03:55 pm

I searched for all my cover art (folder.jpg) and when I select all, right click, security...how do I make all the files read only so they can be read but not written?

Don't select Security, select Properties - you'll find the Read Only checkbox there.

JimH · « **Reply #42 on:** April 30, 2008, 03:45:18 pm »

Here's the link I was trying to remember. A blog report on problems with WMP and Windows MCE changing the folder.jpg:

http://dalepreston.com/Blog/2007/04/windows-media-player-and-album-art.html

Vulcan · « **Reply #43 on:** April 30, 2008, 03:56:33 pm »

This sounds very much so like what would happen if you allowed WMP11 or Microsoft Media Center to touch your files. I know for a fact that WMP11 is capable of replacing folder.jpg files with low res 200x200 versions.

benn600 · « **Reply #44 on:** April 30, 2008, 07:13:12 pm »

I have no WMP11 installations anywhere. I don't even install WMP10 anymore since I never use it.

Alex B · « **Reply #45 on:** May 01, 2008, 03:22:59 am »

I have tried to reproduce the problem. In my experience, MC's automatic cover art downloader can replace existing folder.jpg files only in the following situation:

- The audio files are imported, but the files don't have cover art links yet.
- A folder.jpg file is added to the file folder outside MC.
- Auto-Importer is set to "get cover art" automatically.

In this case MC does not try to check and link the existing folder.jpg file before going on-line and downloading possibly available cover art. It may take some time before this happens because Auto-Importer runs in the background at low-priority.

However, it does not happen when the "Get Cover Art" import option is disabled. Ben, are you sure that all PCs on your LAN have this option disabled?

benn600 · « **Reply #46 on:** May 02, 2008, 11:58:54 pm »

I may have made a discovery. It appears my server may be where the problem occurred. Currently it is running 381 but I just upgraded to 390. I noticed it was set to storing cover art in a specific folder (C Drive pointless folder). So I changed it to folder.jpg. Perhaps MC didn't check about overwriting.

Forgive me but would it be bad to say never overwrite? I suppose a user request to get cover art might but a confirmation should be presented: Are you sure you want to overwrite the existing folder.jpg file?

I am not sure that all our PCs do. The main problem is that couple or so computers get used constantly. We have several other machines and home theater pcs. So a change like this is a death sentence until my next OS reinstall. I usually format in the summer but this summer is unique because I'm leaving the state. I'm still contemplating writing about my summer trip to get feedback. It's to California to work between my sophomore & junior college years.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Cover Art Problems (Read 9700 times)