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[Mastiff]

Since MC seems to be able to play DVD's on XP with EVR, while Zoom Player isn't, I'm gonna try out real DVD playback on my main HTPC with MC for a while. But the first thing I encountered, was a problem. Probably me doing something silly... OK, check this out, dudes:

I'm used to doing the resize I can get away with in FFDShow because that looks best. At the moment I'm using a very CPU intensive AVISynth script on my Q6600 quad core HTPC monster, so right now the resize is 1024x1024. In Zoom Player I set the aspect ratio to "Derived" and leave FFDShow with "No aspect ratio correction", and Zoom takes care of giving the correct AR to my monitor. But with MC I have to set FFDShow to "Keep original aspect ratio". But that only gives the correct AR with identical horizontal and vertical size, from measuring a couple of movies with known AR's. And when I jump to fullscreen, the image doesn't cover the width of the screen and I have to zoom it. Is there any way to set MC so I will get the correct aspect ratio and size every time?

[JimH]

Mastiff,
We will work on this until you're satisfied.  Promise.

Recent versions (last 3 or 4?) can store an aspect ratio on a per file basis for DirectShow playback.  See Yaobing's comments.

[Mastiff]

Jim, I really appreciate that! I know about the aspect ratio storing already, but the thing is I need it to work even with new DVD's, so my kids can take one out of the shrink wrap, put it in and get up and running without the need for advanced input. But I'm sure this is doable, since you have done everything else with this app so very well! Let me know anything you want me to test or check, if I'm awake and at home (normally I'm at home 24/7 most days since I work at home!) I can usually have the theater up and running within minutes after I get an E-mail. Thanks!

[JimH]

You're welcome.  You should hear from Yaobing tomorrow.

[Mastiff]

Great, Jim! Have a nice Sunday, then! Going down in the HT now to watch "Shoot 'Em Up" with mrs. Mastiff. With MC, after a bit of fiddlin'!

[Mike Noe]

Hmmm, I may have a similar setup as yours.  Perhaps this might give you a quick clue:

XP SP3, FFdshow (build 1946), ReClock, EVR and HD2600 XT.

I have no problems with DVD playback and AR with MC these days.  It's quite stunning, really.  My playback monitor is an LG 37" 1080P @ 24Hz.

I'm using the "MT" version of avisyth (2.5.7) and here is my script in FFdshow:

SetMemoryMax(1024)
MT("LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.4, ss_y=1.4, Smode=3, strength=175, overshoot=0, soft=60)",3)
ConvertToRGB24()
chromaresample="Lanczos"

with "Ignore Pulldown" and Buffers at 10,10

FFdshow Resize is set to "Specify vert and horiz" - 1920x1080, No Aspect Correction and Process Pixel AR internally, Lanzcos 2-tap, 0-luma

FFdshow output is RGB (only option check with HQ conversion checked too).

Are you using the latest FFdshow? 
In what order is your FFdshow "tree".  I have AviSynth above Resize.
Is your video card set to a native rez of your monitor?

HTH.

[Mastiff]

Thanks for the answer, Mike! I do use the latest version of just about everything. The main difference between your setup and mine is that I have no native resolution (CRT projector with an 8' wide screen) and use from 1152x864 for 4:3 material and 1080i for upconverted DVD's, with 48, 50 or 60 refresh (film HD, PAL and NTSC). You resize to the native resolution, which is one of the two main schools. I resize as high as I can go, usually 4:3 resize (I don't know the technical stuff behind it, but that looks better on my system) and have the media player program take care of the AR. With my current script I can't go any higher than 1024x1024 on my rather brutally overclocked Q6600. This is the script:

Code: [Select]

MT("LanczosResize(1280,last.height,Taps=8)")
MT("LanczosResize(last.width,720,Taps=8)",splitvertical=true )
MT("
a= last
b=a.Spresso(limit=1, limitC=1, bias=27, biasc=27, rgmode=17, rgmodec=17)
SeeSaw(a, b,NRlimit=1, NRlimit2=5, Sstr=14.0, Szp=0.1, Slimit=9, Sdamplo=5, bias=10000,Spower=4, sootheT=65, SdampHi=20)
LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.0, ss_y=1.0, Smode=4, strength=100, overshoot=0, special=false)
",5)It's made by Vlad on the AVS-Forum, and it looks simply stunning. But the problems are there as well: Anything but EVR, VMR9 renderless exclusive and Haali tears on my system (I too have a HD2600, but a Pro, not an XT). And EVR looks a lot better than both, while Haali looks better than VMR9. Of course anything looks better than overlay!

Btw you could try to move up to 4 tap Lanzcos if you can, it looks better, as long as it doesn't cause ringing (which it may do on your system, it does that on some monitors, but not on others - CRT are the least sensitive for that problem).

As for the rendering I would love to have the ability to use VMR9 renderless exclusive and Haali as well, since some source material is impossible to get working without tearing on my system (and it was that on my previous system as well) on anything but Haali and VMR9 renderless exclusive. Still, Haali comes higher up on the wish list since it looks clearly better than VMR9.

[Yaobing]

Regarding aspect ratio, I think we had some discussion before. The main issue is that we get the video size info from DirectShow interface, which gets the info from the filter immediately connected to the renderer filter, which is "FFDShow Raw Video Processor". In your case the video size becomes 1024x1024.

I will explore whether we can get the size info from a filter upstream of FFDShow, so we can get the real native size. It will be somewhat messy.

Also I will add Haali Video Renderer to the video renderer list.

[Mastiff]

Thanks, Yao! I saw the previous discussion that was, but it didn't go into this kind of FFDShow use, as far as I could see. I hope it's possible to pick it up earlier, like Zoom does. I think it takes it from the video decoder.

And thanks for the Haali!

[glynor]

Mastiff... I just thought I'd mention... I LOVE LOVE LOVE my [ATI RADEON] HD 3850 512MB.  Everything the 2600 does, but can actually handle some 3D stuff (I can run Oblivion at 1920x1080 set to Very High), and it seems a lot less troublesome than the HD 2x00 cards.  Plus, the 3850's are very overclocking friendly.  Mine's running the same as a 3870.

[Mastiff]

Yeah, I'm considering going one step up, but right now I have spent a bit too much money on hard drives (1 tb external and a 500 gig internal) for backups. So that'll have to wait. I'm gonna try out my son's 2900XT and se how that does, but I'm guessing that it won't be good with any HD material. So you are a RPG-man, huh? The very few times I play, I do FPS. But it's rather seldom. The last game I finished was either Half-Life or Return to Castle Wolfenstein...

[glynor]

I actually usually am a FPS guy, but Oblivion is pretty darn cool.

My most recent finished games are: Half Life 2 and Portal.  If you haven't played Portal, it is worth twice the price of the Orange Box all by itself (and the other stuff is cool too).

The 2900XT won't be even as good as your 2600.  UVD (the video decode stuff) was NOT fully included on the 2900.  Doing that was a dumb call on AMD's part, but that's what happened.  If you go with a new card, go with a 38x0 card.  Though, supposedly AMD is coming out with a RV770-based refresh very soon (late may or early june)...

EDIT: Basically, the 3870/50 was everything the 2900XT should have been, but wasn't.  The RV770 looks pretty nice too, but they've been surprisingly mum about it.  That's good.  I think they over-hyped the 2900XT early, and then when it came out and didn't cook you breakfast and solve the meaning of life, the universe, and everything...  The predictable failure of expectations happened.

[fitbrit]

Great, Jim! Have a nice Sunday, then! Going down in the HT now to watch "Shoot 'Em Up" with mrs. Mastiff. With MC, after a bit of fiddlin'!

Mrs. fitbrit loves to watch a movie using MC after a bit of fiddlin' 

+1 Thanks for adding Haali renderer. I've yet to try it, as I almost exclusively use MC for video now.

[Mike Noe]

...Also I will add Haali Video Renderer to the video renderer list.

I would like to add a "thank you" for that as well.

[Mastiff]

As I have said in the beta thread, that works very well! Even better than I hoped. So next step would be to fix my AR issue. Is ther any hope of getting that AR info earlier inthe filter chain in the next beta? Also, another suggestion: Make the amounts of seconds to jump back and forth configurable, if that isn't a big change. But getting that AR correct is my personal number one priority with a bullet! I'm starting to think that media playback on my HTPC is getting close to what I really want, which is the Highlander schoo of thought: There can be only one! (Media app, that is!)

[Yaobing]

I will do my best to nail the aspect ratio problem. Hopefully in the next beta or two. However, so you will not be too disappointed if I could not accomplish it soon, it was only an idea which I have not proven it would work. I am diving into it now...

[Mastiff]

Thanks, Yao! I won't hold it against you if it takes a bit of time. At least not much... No, I really appreciate it!

[glynor]

I haven't tested it yet, but I did see in the build thread....

7. Changed: DVD player now can handle aspect ratio correctly even if the video is resized by a post-processing filter (e.g. FFDShow).

Assuming it works (and I'm feeling confident for some reason), just wanted to say...

Good Job, Yaobing!   

[Mastiff]

Sorry, but I can't get that to work here. If I set FFDShow to for instance 1600x1600 and "No aspect ratio correction", and MC to "No Cropping" I get a square in the middle of my screen. I mentioned it in the main beta thread, but maybe it's better to follow that up here.

Yaobing, do you have FFDShow set differently from me? The AVISynth part doesn't really matter here, since the final resize (the one done internally in FFDShow) seems to control the shape and size the window gets in MC. The window does not fill my screen, if I do this with 1152x864 I see a zoom in MC's OSD at 108, and it says that this is fit to window, but that's around half the width of the window.

[Yaobing]

What video renderer do you use?  It should work with all renderers except Haali Video Renderer. I have not figured out how to set Haali Renderer to not to adjust aspect ratio automatically (which would turn video to whatever ratio FFDShow sets).

Also, I should mention, this only works for DVD playback. For video file playback, it gets messier. I have not figured out a clean way of getting the correct native ratio. It is also in less urgent need because for each video file you can select correct aspect ratio and it is saved in the database.

[MrHaugen]

Tried to mention it before, but nothig was done about it at that time. Had to set the resize numbers to match the aspect ratio, but it seems to give all media the same output aspect ratio. Not great at all.

I love that you look into this problem now! I kinda disagree that it's less urgent for video files though. Changing AR for each file is not a plesant job.

[Mastiff]

Ah! I was using Haali. And files doesn't concern me that much, I seldom watch files. Anything that's been recompressed, either from DVD or HD, looses too much. With EVR it works. Thanks!

Is there a chance of getting that VMR9 Renderless Exclusive as well?

[Yaobing]

Tried to mention it before, but nothig was done about it at that time. Had to set the resize numbers to match the aspect ratio, but it seems to give all media the same output aspect ratio. Not great at all.

How about resizing to monitor size and use "keep original aspect ratio"?

I love that you look into this problem now! I kinda disagree that it's less urgent for video files though. Changing AR for each file is not a plesant job.

I will work on it.

Is there a chance of getting that VMR9 Renderless Exclusive as well?

According to Microsoft, Renderless mode is useful for games and other special video application. Why is it important for DVD and video playback?  Implementing renderless mode is a lot of work because it requires the application to manage a lot of stuff that otherwise is managed by DirectShow. However, I will be glad to give it a shot.

[Mastiff]

Yaobing, I really appreciate that you are willing to try! The reason why Renderless mode should be available for DVD viewing is that on some graphic cards with some material it's the only way to avoid tearing.

Edit: Btw would it be easeier to find the correct AR with Haali? Using that renderer is another way of avoiding tearing.

[MrHaugen]

How about resizing to monitor size and use "keep original aspect ratio"?

I belive I tried that. I tried most things, but can't verify now. My setup is totally screwed. Guess I'll wait for some changes to AR for video before I reinstall.

Might just be that I'm used to use it different too.
Always used to set the resize to about 3000 x 3000 and then check for no AR correction, and every aspect ratio looked good on my ffdshow and zoomplayer setup.
I had switch between "No aspect ratio correction" and "Keep original aspect ratio" when viewing DVD and video. Everything else was just great.

Let's hope this get's sorted out for videos as well.

Thanks for your effort

[Yaobing]

Always used to set the resize to about 3000 x 3000 and then check for no AR correction, and every aspect ratio looked good on my ffdshow and zoomplayer setup.

I can not get that to work on ZP. That is not my concern though

[Mastiff]

Hey, dont knock the world's second best media player! If there's anything I can test for you on either program, let me know.

[Yaobing]

Yaobing, I really appreciate that you are willing to try! The reason why Renderless mode should be available for DVD viewing is that on some graphic cards with some material it's the only way to avoid tearing.

So you still have a computer that gives you tearing problem? Is it related to a specific graphic card?

Edit: Btw would it be easeier to find the correct AR with Haali? Using that renderer is another way of avoiding tearing.

I would think it is easier to get Haali renderer to work. What I need is an interface exposed by the renderer to tell it whether to automatically adjust video aspect ratio. We want to make it not to adjust aspect ratio because otherwise it keeps the aspect ratio of whatever is fed into it (1024x1024 from FFDShow). All Microsoft stock renderers have such an interface (IVMRAspectRatioControl9 for VMR9 for example).

[Mastiff]

OK, I won't even pretend I understood what you were talking about in that last part!

But yes, I have setups with both GeForce and ATI Radeon cards, and the Radeons are pretty prone to tearing in most renderers except for Haali. But they give a visibly better image than the GeForce cards. Of course EVR looks the best on both, but depending on the source material and/or the setup of FFDShow (it's very hard to pin down!) I sometimes get tearing even in that.

I have even compared Haali on Radeon to EVR on GeForce, and the Radeon still wins, btw.

[Mastiff]

Yaobing, I tried to send you a PM yesterday, but I'm not sure if you got it. It didn't register in my outbox on "My messages". Are you blocked from receiving them?

[Yaobing]

Yaobing, I tried to send you a PM yesterday, but I'm not sure if you got it. It didn't register in my outbox on "My messages". Are you blocked from receiving them?

I replied to your message a moment ago.

Sorry, I did not check my PMs yesterday, in fact I have not done so for a while.

[Mastiff]

Gotcha. Thanks!

[Mastiff]

Yaobing, I forgot one request/wish: I would like to be able to set MC to jump to display even when in playing now. I did mention it a few months back, but didn't get any further at that time. Is it a big deal to put a checkbox for that? Or maybe add another one to the Behaviour/Jump on play list: "Display View (if has display) even from Playing now"

Keep up the great work, both you and the rest of the team!

[Yaobing]

Yaobing, I forgot one request/wish: I would like to be able to set MC to jump to display even when in playing now. I did mention it a few months back, but didn't get any further at that time. Is it a big deal to put a checkbox for that? Or maybe add another one to the Behaviour/Jump on play list: "Display View (if has display) even from Playing now"

Keep up the great work, both you and the rest of the team!

I guess I will have to let Matt answer this.

[Mastiff]

OK, I'll wait for his answer. Do you know if he responds best to bribes or threats?

[Matt]

Build 496 and later:
Changed: Added Options > General > Jump on play > Display View (if has display, even in Playing Now) that jumps to display view, even when viewing Playing Now.

[Mastiff]

Thank you very much, Matt! Great! I appreciate it!

[Mastiff]

Yaobing, you have another nagging PM... But you may like parts of it!

[Yaobing]

Thanks.

Here is where things stand:

Haali Video Renderer aspect ratio - their developers have not answered my inquiry yet.
VMR9 Renderless mode - I am actively working on it.

[Mastiff]

Thank you very much! I'll lay off those nags in the future.