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[danrien]

Hi,
I was wondering if it would be at all possible to have some sort of MC Library Server type web client, so I could access my MC Library using a browser over the network.  Obviously, this would need to have streaming abilities - possibly transcoding to MP3 or some format that a Flash based player would work well with (I'm assuming flash would be the best way to transport media files via a browser).

The main purpose of this would be to "have MC" on devices where I can't install MC, such as a Wii, a handheld, etc.

Thanks,
danrien

[danrien]

Some further reasons for the Web Client:

1.  It would be fairly easy to implement, since all the hooks are already in place (library server)
2.  It would serve a useful purpose, to be able to access your library from anywhere, on any device
3.  It would be a feature that I haven't seen any Media player have, which would put MC a cut above the competition for once (instead of always being one step behind)

-danrien

EDIT: I didn't mean to sound like such an not a very nice person about being one step behind, I love MC (I even regularly try to make it work flawlessly in Linux), so please take my criticism as a critique and not a bitter comment.

[Matt]

It's something we'd like to do.  It's not simple.

To present the Media Center interface on the web, we'd need to rewrite it with flash or similar (icky), or make browser plugins that work on lots of browsers.  I prefer the second approach, but for our code to work on Linux, Apple, Wii, etc. we have work to do.

For now, you could remote desktop to your media PC from anywhere and get mostly the same thing save for great performance.

[danrien]

yeh... i've been doing that.... the audio gets very umm.... "icky" in a word.  i guess i just thought that you could use the outgoing mp3 stream from the library server through some clever flash, i guess.  and since you already have the ability to control MC through a browser, it seemed a natural and simple fit.  i have no experience in the field of flash (although I write some pretty mean PHP code) though, so my thoughts are probably not too valid :S.  thanks for getting back to me .

- danrien

[Messiahs]

so my thoughts are probably not too valid.

No your thoughts are absolute valid. It's the way i already tested it.

Messiahs

[hit_ny]

Hi,
I was wondering if it would be at all possible to have some sort of MC Library Server type web client, so I could access my MC Library using a browser over the network.  Obviously, this would need to have streaming abilities - possibly transcoding to MP3 or some format that a Flash based player would work well with (I'm assuming flash would be the best way to transport media files via a browser).

Does this or this come close ?

Not sure whether the above have streaming  ?

[Messiahs]

Not sure whether the above have streaming  ?

I'm only sure that xpTunes can do this. I have tested it and it works for mp3's. But i found no time to finish this feature, cause i have a bunch of other projects on my table... so you will not find a streaming solution/template in xpTunes. But I used exacly the way danrien described.

Cheers,
Messiahs

[Alex B]

I posted the following suggestion(s) a few months ago when we had a discussion about the future directions of MC on the beta board:

I would like to see two platform independent Java clients. One for the library server and another for remote control. Both programs should look and feel aproximately the same as the Theater View (though without any processor intensive 3D effects). They could be used with any computer or device that can run Java programs and has a LAN connection.

EDIT

These would be nice extensions to the current line of home network services. Possibly the library server client would need to be an audio only client because of the limitations of Java. It could use a single, preferably lossless, audio format for transferring music over LAN. The remote controller could naturally have full control over the remote MC (exactly like the Theater View interface) because nothing would be streamed.

EDIT 2

I mean that this kind of client programs would be an achievable step towards Linux and Mac platform compatibility without the need to recreate the main MC engine from the scratch. For example, the library server client could be used in kitchen, terrace, garage etc with a small embedded Linux PC & touch screen. The remote controller could be used for controlling a multizone home installation from various rooms and with various types of remote computers.

EDIT 3

Naturally the on-going tasks should be finished and the features polished. MC12 has several recently introduced features and functions that are not quite finished yet, IMHO. The new network clients could be developed independently from the already introduced and new MC features.

EDIT 4

Actually you would need to develop only the remote controller. The audio client part could be handled with a new output mode on the MC server and a simple receiver plugin on the client. I already do this using the following system:
- I control MC remotely with a remote desktop program.
- MC plays audio through a standard Windows audio device.
- Oddcast V3 standalone grabs the PCM stream, packs it in the OGG-FLAC container format and forwards the stream to an Icecast server which is running on the same PC with the remote MC (Icecast is a variation of Shoutcast).
- Icecast creates an internet radio station of that stream.
- any PC with a player program that can play Icecast streams can output the stream through a local audio device. Currently I use foobar2000 because it seems to be the only player that can decode OGG-FLAC streams. (OGG-FLAC consists of the standard  ogg container and FLAC encoded audio). The advantage of using OGG-FLAC instead of a lossy format like MP3 is obvious. The client can play the stream without any further quality loss even if the original source format happens to be lossy.

Yes. I said go sideways, meaning mac, but actually, any mobile way of accessing our libraries would be a very innovative move I think. You have the interface side mostly down with theater view, so just making theater view work in an internet browser/on  a phone/etc. would be cool. Even better if we could edit some basic tags remotely. Even just ratings for a start would be amazing.

This is exactly what I suggested, except that Java provides more functionality than a web browser interface. I've seen some very nice Java programs that look and feel like usual Windows programs. I think it would be quite possible to create a platform independent Java interface that would provide the Theater View features. The features we have in Theater View now is about the minimum that would be needed for a successful remote client. Naturally it would be nice to have the full standard interface available, but that may not be realistic. MC relies so heavily on the Windows platform that JRiver would need to create the Mac and/or Linux versions from the scratch.


EDIT

Here is a schematic drawing:




EDIT2

A couple of suitable PCs.

A $200 Linux PC from Wal-Mart -- to kitchen, garage etc...
http://desktoplinux.com/news/NS7114714037.html
A Linux UMPC would make a nice remote for a home theater and also serve as a stand-alone handheld if the "JRiver MC Java" program could additionally play files from a simplified local library. The rumoured JRiver portable could be one of these...
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6231914514.html
Naturally the program could be used also on a Mac or a standard Windows PC.

This thread on the MC12 board is exactly about what I have suggested here. I think you'll see more and more "SW remote controller" requests like this.

From Is there any GUI web-based control of MC?

Can I get a 'Remote Server Development for MC 13' Cheer!

EDIT

An easy way to start the development would be to create a modifed version of Library Server. Instead of providing streaming file addresses it would just play the files through a standard local output device whenever it gets a play command from the client. This would naturally be a Windows only solution and possibly usable only with a single client, but it would provide the full standard GUI on the client side.

EDIT2

Having just bought 2 Asus EeePCs, does anyone know of a lightweight Linux UPNP app that will attach to an MC server?

Cheers....

 

[eso]

To present the Media Center interface on the web, we'd need to rewrite it with flash or similar (icky), or make browser plugins that work on lots of browsers.

I don't think that you need flash or plugins, this can all be done with a Javascript interface and would then be compatible even with modern mobile devices. There are several examples on the web for AJAX-based media players.

[Messiahs]

There are several examples on the web for AJAX-based media players.

Can you point me to a AJAX-based media players ?. I don't think that this is possible without flash/quicktimes/media player and so on.

Cheers,
Markus

[eso]

Can you point me to a AJAX-based media players ?. I don't think that this is possible without flash/quicktimes/media player and so on.

Sites like emusic, mp3tunes, and streampad (for example) use an AJAX-based media playback interface with no apparent use of flash or plugins. I'm not sure what mechanism is used in the background for the streaming and playback, possibly some JavaScript API (maybe even browser-specific). But this would still be better than requiring Flash or even platform-specific plugins because it would be easier do adapt (mobile) browsers to it (most desktop browser already support it).

I just found an addon library for the GWT AJAX library called gwt-voices. It provides cross-platform audio playback functions. There's a demo on the site that also shows which sound formats are supported by the visiting browser.

[danrien]

i'm fairly certain that all of those mentioned sites use a flash-based streamer.... neither javascript, php, css, etc. have the ability to perform complicated tasks such as that.  when it comes to the domain of media, flash is sadly the only route to go, unless you use java somehow, but java can be pretty resource intensive and... slow, at least for playing back simple mp3 files.

[eso]

i'm fairly certain that all of those mentioned sites use a flash-based streamer....

You're right - I've just checked the gwt-voices demo with Firefox, Opera, Mozilla, and IE (on Windows) and it displays that it is using flash for the playback of MPEG files on all of them. But gwt-voices also shows that you don't need to implement your own plugins for media playback. And AJAX allows to hide flash completely from the user and only use it for the media playback in the background.