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[Matt]

There's been some concern over how view schemes work in Theater View with version 13.  I want to give an overview of our plan, and then open it up for discussion.

We decided to separate the views used in Standard View and Theater View.  This is because:

• We want to allow full customizability of the Theater View view choices.  This was not possible in MC 12 since it always forced stock choices into the list.
• We think the views you want in each are not the same.  Theater View needs simple views designed to be used one level at a time.  Pane browsing in Standard View allows far more elaborate schemes.

Going forward, our plan looks like this:

• Finish the Standard View view configuration system.  We've made a lot of changes recently, and need a week or two to polish it off.  This comes before Theater View since Theater View gets built on top of the same engine.
• Make it possible to load saved views (and possibly existing view schemes) when configuring Theater View views.
• Make it as easy to switch views as possible in Theater View.  One suggested solution was a rolling "View As" bar.  Another suggested solution is to allow nesting of views.

Thanks for any feedback.

[MrHaugen]

To be able to change Views in Theater View is probably good for some, but I hope it can be hidden.
A "View As" bar visible at all times in theater view would be a step back for the overall look and feel of Theater View.

The Theater View should be so simple you could just use a remote with 5 buttons, and yet shiny and gorgeous.
Cluttering up the screen with more elements and having no way of removing it, would be a big mistake I think.
I would probably go over to Standard View only.

[Matt]

To be able to change Views in Theater View is probably good for some, but I hope it can be hidden.
A "View As" bar visible at all times in theater view would be a step back for the overall look and feel of Theater View.

The Theater View should be so simple you could just use a remote with 5 buttons, and yet shiny and gorgeous.
Cluttering up the screen with more elements and having no way of removing it, would be a big mistake I think.
I would probably go over to Standard View only.

So from your perspective, the existing "Views" button as a popup is a good compromise?

[MrHaugen]

So from your perspective, the existing "Views" button as a popup is a good compromise?

Yes, I think so. I don't even like that button to be visible at all times
Would be better to have a Views button under Show/Hide Controls and Advanced, so you could hide the Views button. I know; that might be taking it a little far!

Talking seriously though, I belive that a way of hiding the whole left menu bar would do alot to the looks of Theater View. A simple shortcut would suffice.
But that is probably a whole different discussion though.

[glynor]

I'll bring at least a couple of the points over...  Delete this if you bring them over in a nicer manner.

I got confused just reading that.

The goal is to have a clean and simple list of views available in Theater View.

The default view schemes the player includes do not fit the bill.  For example, Quickies / Keywords / Rating is great for images in Pane view.  It's too complicated in Theater View where you only see one level at a time.  So using the list of Standard View view schemes for the Theater View views isn't too neat.

Separating the Theater View and Standard View views solves this problem.  We just need to make sure it's easy to configure both sets of views. 

Putting a "Theater View" item in the audio / images / video area of the tree was one solution, but it's clutter.  Giving an optional way to show that item just for configuration was another thought.  We don't know how to make that clear.

We're open to other ideas, but the goal stated above must be fulfilled.

In some ways I like the theater views split away from the standard view, one thing I didn't want in my "Audio" Theater View was the genre being populated, so when people selected "Audio" they only got to see the views I had defined.. the only way I coud do this was to edit the Top level "Audio" view in standard view and remove the View items, which then made "Audio" useless in standard view which was annoying.

But than I also see the issue of having views defined in two places, which adds confusion...

Could the theater views move back under the standard views and just be color coded somehow?  So views available in Theater View are a different color to ones only available in standard view?

Richard

Adding a dedicated "Theater View" item in each of the audio/images/video trees makes the most sense to me. This is clear and self explainatory. Allow people to hide this if neccessary via the "features" option.

I do appreciate the goal of having a clean and simple list of views available in Theater View but tucking them away in the options dialog (for example) is not ideal. It's fine for options and settings pertaining only to Theater View but much of the power of Theater View lies in its customisable view schemes which in turn, is a major component of MC in general. For this reason, I think they belong in the same area as all the other view schemes and we should be able to link to existing Standard View ones if required to avoid duplication.

Oh, that's good!

Thanks.

Adding a dedicated "Theater View" item in each of the audio/images/video trees makes the most sense to me. This is clear and self explainatory. Allow people to hide this if neccessary via the "features" option.

I agree completely.  If you need it to be separate from the main View Schemes, the best alternative is the Subsection of each of the main sections.

These subsections should also allow their own custom filters (just like any View Scheme).  That way, if you want to, you could add [Media Type]=Data and [File Type]=iso to the Video Theater View Views scheme and all of the Theater View views would work with these files.  I'd also use it to filter out files (like my "video editing stock library files") that you don't ever want to see in Theater View.

... and would provide a nice way to preview the results you'd get in Theater View

[edit]

... on the flipside however, I do like the fact that this centralises the Theater View management into one area. (I agree the current implementation is too restrictive however) I'm not a fan of having to configure one thing in multiple spots - and I think if the new system can be enhanced, it would be better for new users. Perhaps a system to 'pick' an existing standard view (from a list or tree) for use in Theater View

Best. Idea. Yet.

Options --> Theater View --> Items To Show --> Configure should present a dialog (similar to the Handheld Sync List dialog) where you have a Tree of your entire library and can put checkmarks in any of your existing View Schemes and it'll include them.  It should allow you to include child view schemes (but let you manually de-select individual child view schemes if desired).  If you only check one scheme for Audio (or whatever) then it would just auto-open that scheme every time.  If you have more than one, or multiple tiers, then it would either use a rotating system like Park raym mocked-up above or just present a list (or maybe both).

Then, by default with new fresh library, there should be either:

a) a special "Theater View" sub-section of Audio/Video/Images top level schemes
b) a special top-level Theater View view scheme with Audio, Images, and Video child schemes

Either way, these should be pre-filled with specially constructed and useful (to the novice) special-purpose Theater View Schemes.  These would be default checked in the Options dialog mentioned above.

It is the best of all worlds!  That way, those of us who would rather just "dual purpose" use our regular old view schemes could do it and never have to duplicate work.  Those who want to keep them separate and special purpose, can do that.  Those who would prefer to hide them away from their regular Standard View schemes could do that (even if option A above was done, you could always make your own top-level Theater View master View Scheme and move all of them in there and then go into the options and check different boxes).

EDIT: Fixed the incorrect attribution of the rotating sub-scheme idea to Park instead of the true originator, raym.  Sorry about that!!

And even more, if you turned off Theater View by un-checking Tools -> Options -> General -> Advanced -> Features -> [ ] Theater View these special Theater View schemes could be hidden.  Not that most normal people would ever delve that deep into the murky waters of MC's Options Dialog

-John

Yep, I agree, This sounds like an awesome idea! 

I'm not crazy about putting Theater View view schemes under the main library.  They're different, and add noise.

I'll put my helmet on now.

I don't think you need a helmet at all.  That's the entire point of the idea of having the checkboxes and the separate section of the main database in the tree to "store" them.  We can all agree to disagree!  You see them as different, I don't.  The default setup would be:

Have a Top-Level Theater View View Scheme under the Tree, with Audio, Video, and Images sub-view schemes (with nice pre-defined Theater Views).  I liked this better than putting a sub-scheme under each top-level option anyway.  Then, have an Option in like was described to allow you to choose any View Schemes in the whole tree that you want to select others, de-select some, or whatever.

This solves a ton of problems:

1. It gets the Theater View items out of the main Audio/Video/Images View Schemes, which you and some other users don't like.

2. It allows us to configure and test our Theater View Schemes by configuring them normally in Standard View.  (Swapping back and forth from Options --> Theater View and back to Options to "get it right" would be a huge pain.)

3. It allows you to easily copy/paste (through the normal method) View Schemes to and from the Theater View Schemes.

4. Simplifies setting up sorting.  Just follow the normal View Scheme rules as they are applied in these special View Schemes.

5. Solves the ISO problem.  Just add ( [Media Type]=data and [File Type]=iso ) to the filters.

6. Allows those of us who would much rather just have a unified system, where the Audio tree in Standard View and the Audio tree in Theater View match to get just what we want.  I might even try setting it up through the Theater View Top-Level item if it were this way though.  (BTW -- darichman, I do change my schemes fairly regularly.  They're in near constant flux.)

7. If you really want to set it and forget it and never see them, go to Advanced options and uncheck the new Theater View Schemes checkbox.  Poof, they're gone.

I really don't see any major negatives to this method, other than coding time of course (not my problem), and it would certainly keep everyone above "pretty much happy".  A good compromise.   

What glynor said...  plus some easier method of seeing/selecting each of the Audio/Video/Images sub-Views within Theater View.

-John

im using theaterview 95% of the time. and i do think it is two steps back at this moment. and there are more who think so, in 13 "Theater View "Views" menu is fully configurable" but less then in 12, imo. but i think this is all part of the proses to get something better (like what is happening now with the views in standard view).

 
gab

[rpalmer68]

I've been thinking about this since this debate first started a few weeks ago and have started making some view scheme changes based on the fact Theater View and Standard views will remain split.

My standard views were pretty much comfigured for my Theater View environment previously so I have now reverted them back to views more useful in Standard view using Panes etc rather than multiple levels in the tree.

This brought me to an issue I'd not really considered;

I use Promixis NetRemote2 as my remote control and I browse my music using NetRemote. 
Now Netremote doesn't have Panes or a "Views" button to switch views, so my view schemes were multi-tiered not only for Theater View use but for Netremote as well, and I'd assume the same would apply to uPnP clients too.

Not to be put off, I have created a new View Scheme under "Audio" called "NetRemote Views" and then built my tree under there and have set Netremotes root to \\Audio\\NetRemote Views\\.

This works fine, but now I have my standard views, my Netremote Views and my TheaterView views to manage.

I'm also looking at a uPnP client, so this will need to browse the tree somehow too, and my Standard Views tree structure won't work well for this as my "NetRemote Views" are the ones setup for tree browsing.

When I step back and look at it TheaterView, Netremote and a uPnP client probably all want the same tree structure to browse which will be different to what one would use if using Standard View.

So.....

1) Could the Theater View views somehow still be part of the tree (even if they are hidden) so that Netremote could access them ?  Maybe a new Tree root at the same level as Audio, Video and Images, or otherwsie just another entry in the Tree, maybe called "External/Client Views" and if TheaterView or the UPnP server aren't enabled it's hidden.

2) Can we please then have Multi-tiered views back for Theater View?

3) Could the uPnP server have a new option to set the tree root  to the TheaterView root or Standard View root so people have the option as to which views they want the client to browse?

Just my thoughts/ramblings for a Thursday morning.... (well it's Thursday here anyway!)

Richard

[raym]

My thoughts on this are fairly simple I think....

I'm fine with the seperate views as long as they're saved to the db and therefore possible to copy around and Matt has already confirmed this.

Allow us to nest views as we always have. I'm not a fan of having to switch views via the VIEWS button. Too many clicks and it disrupts the overall navigation too much.

Forget the rolling "View As" bar if it's going to cause clutter but provide the name of the current view you're in somewhere (the breadcrumbs area perhaps).

So basically, continue as you are but PLEASE allow nesting 

Thanks.

[Matt]

So basically, continue as you are but PLEASE allow nesting 

Just to make sure I understand, is there any functional reason for nesting outside of it being a convenient way to switch views?

[Matt]

I use Promixis NetRemote2 as my remote control and I browse my music using NetRemote.
....
I'm also looking at a uPnP client, so this will need to browse the tree somehow too, and my Standard Views tree structure won't work well for this as my "NetRemote Views" are the ones setup for tree browsing.

I think all of these should share the Theater View views because they all use the same paradigm for browsing.  I'm not sure how this should be worked into the user interface / options.  Suggestions?

[ThoBar]

Just to make sure I understand, is there any functional reason for nesting outside of it being a convenient way to switch views?

It provides a logical (hierarchical) method for delving into large libraries.
It provides the possibility of a lot of views without needing to scroll through a potentially large list of views

There is a reason why you use a tree in standard view - I can't understand how it's any different in theater view...

I *could* understand if you have a simple library based on common media, where most people would want just a couple of simple views. The way I use my library, and it's content tends to require a nested structure to simplify Theater View browsing.

I'm not a fan of having to switch views via the VIEWS button. Too many clicks and it disrupts the overall navigation too much.

With this, I agree completely. The current system breaks the "navigation in one location" methodology(?), and is a major weakness in Theater View's UI (IMHO). I think I will compile some hopefully helpful suggestions on that front and post them separately, but for now, I really do think that it's a bit too clunky.



----------------
Now playing: Sergei Prokofiev - War And Peace / Three Pieces For Piano, Op 96
via FoxyTunes

[raym]

Just to make sure I understand, is there any functional reason for nesting outside of it being a convenient way to switch views?

Most definately! confishy summed it up perfectly:-

It provides a logical (hierarchical) method for delving into large libraries.
It provides the possibility of a lot of views without needing to scroll through a potentially large list of views
There is a reason why you use a tree in standard view - I can't understand how it's any different in theater view...

And, since "jumping out" to the views menu breaks the flow of normal navigation, this is also an inconvenience.

Thanks.

[rpalmer68]

I think all of these should share the Theater View views because they all use the same paradigm for browsing.  I'm not sure how this should be worked into the user interface / options.  Suggestions?

I agree, but you're right it's not easy to decide where to put it.

For me the logical place is in the tree with all the other views, but I do understand your issue with the tree becoming cluttered.

So I guess there are a few options
1) Keep it where it is now, under the Theater View Options which means it's hard to just drag and drop views within the tree but does keep it out of the tree "clutter".
2) Have it in the tree like "Documents" so if TheaterView or uPnP is enabled then its visible, this way it doesn't clutter things for those not using it.
3) Or maybe it could go under "Services & Plugins" becasue it's views for uPnp services and similar?

It provides a logical (hierarchical) method for delving into large libraries.
It provides the possibility of a lot of views without needing to scroll through a potentially large list of views

There is a reason why you use a tree in standard view - I can't understand how it's any different in theater view...

I *could* understand if you have a simple library based on common media, where most people would want just a couple of simple views. The way I use my library, and it's content tends to require a nested structure to simplify Theater View browsing.

Thanks Saves me typing the same thing.

Richard

[glynor]

I too completely agree with confishy, raym, and Richard.

It is about logically grouping the library into groups and subgroups, with associated filters (and more importantly, subfilters).

 

[gappie]

Just to make sure I understand, is there any functional reason for nesting outside of it being a convenient way to switch views?

i think convenience is important, we are talking here about theaterview. couch > remote > chips > beer. part of convenience is that it is logical. in 12, when i go to video i get:

films
documentries
series
music

they all have there own scheme, they all have there own logic. in 13 after video, you get a list, that might or might not be what you are looking for.

i think that it is a good idea that Theater View has been taken out of the tree. i could think of other places to put it (made a mockup for putting it in services and plugins, that post is gone now).

i understand that the new system is made to make Theater View easier to use for everybody, what i dont understand is that the first line of choices is placed under the views button, and is not the first thing you get after you clicked audio or video. that would have made it at least more logical.

 
gab

[glynor]

So I guess there are a few options
1) Keep it where it is now, under the Theater View Options which means it's hard to just drag and drop views within the tree but does keep it out of the tree "clutter".
2) Have it in the tree like "Documents" so if TheaterView or uPnP is enabled then its visible, this way it doesn't clutter things for those not using it.
3) Or maybe it could go under "Services & Plugins" becasue it's views for uPnp services and similar?

Any of these would be okay with me, really, as long as we can nest views and have an easy and intuitive way to select sub-views.  I'd prefer not Option 1, but as long as there is an easy way to copy/paste views from standard view into theater view then I won't scream too loud.  BTW... I haven't tested it lately (because it is useless without nesting for me), can the sorting be defined in the new system just like it can be for any other View Scheme?  It should be.  Theater View sorting has always been annoying and obtuse.

I'd also add this option:

4) Having a Sub-Folder under Audio, Images, and Video in the tree where you define (and can test) the views just like any other view scheme.  Then a "Show Theater View Schemes in Tree" option in Options --> Theater View so you can hide them when you are done.  (That option part could apply equally to Option 2 above as well.)

[glynor]

Hmmm... Thinking here.  If you go with Option 1 above... You need a better configuration UI for the Items to Show thing.  It isn't immediately clear what you are doing in the sub-dialog.  It looks and feels similar to the Edit View dialog, but it works very, very differently (the Views listbox on the left represents the "tree" and then the right listbox uses a completely different naming/system than the Edit View dialog).  It is just a bit confusing.  I'd try to find a way to make the View Editor look and feel as much like the Edit View dialog as is possible, so people intuitively know what they're supposed to do.  This might require you to move the "Views" listbox back out to the Options --> Theater View main page somehow (but with a tree-like view list).

Perhaps a simple way to implement the copy/paste views thing would be this:

1. User clicks Add in the Options --> Theater View --> Views configuration section to add a new sub-view to one of the top-level views.
2. Present a dialog that asks "Do you want to define a new view or choose an existing standard view?"
3. Depending on the user response, show either the Edit View dialog (modified for Theater View) or a chooser to pick your existing view.  If you use the latter (Chooser) you should then be able to select the view and click "Edit" or "Configure" and then be shown the Theater View Edit View dialog and make modifications to the one you "copied" over.

I still think that of all the options listed above, any of #2-4 would be best.  The above scenario makes the user learn a whole new and separate view configuration system.  And, even with some kind of copy/paste system as described, that makes no provision for taking a View defined or modified in Theater View and copying it back over to Standard View.  Again, then you have to duplicate work if you make something cool in Theater View and want to get it back into Standard View.  Options 2-4 would solve all of those issues completely.

[gappie]

there is a way to trick mc13 into using nesting schemes. when you do this it is at your own risk. but since it kept me from updating i looked around a bit for a solution....
i still have my nested view schemes under video and audio etc, specialy made for theaterview to get those into theaterview again i went to my library in windows, deleted the jmd file (bin backup) called 'browser (theaterview).jmd'. and copied the file 'browser.jmd' and renamed the copy to 'browser (theaterview).jmd'.
voila.. there were my nested schemes again.

 
gab


edit: it is interesting to see that nested lists are still 'possible' in theaterview. i can edit them without problem. the new interface still groups them, though it is hard to see how it is all nested. and ofcourse it is impossible to add views to the nests.

[galahad1974]

I agree with most of the above posts about nesting being critical in managing huge libraries of media. I was wondering if there was any chance that the other end of the view scheme was going to be adressed in 13. Are we going to see the ability to get details on the individual files once we have reached them in our views, bieng able to click on a film and see plot summaries and other field stored data is as important to me as the ability to sort and filter them logically from the top end. any chance of this? pretty please

[park]

Maybe I am misunderstanding the issue, but wouldnt a Windows media center approach solve all the problems between the choice of nested views/view menu. In Windows media center, at the top level you have a vertical list of views, and then you can scroll horizontally off of those views to choose a more specific view.

In JRiver MC all you'd have to do is have the media types listed vertically, and have each available viewscheme for that media type branching off horizontally. Visually this would be much simpler (you make your choices at the top level) and more pleasing to the eye than the nesting method that just gives you a list of folders. Especially if you could choose different icons to represent each viewscheme (I'm thinking that there could be a bunch of generic icons like "video camera" for home video, "projector" for movies, "TV" for ... TV, "music note over tv" for music videos etc.)

In terms of nested viewschemes that inherit the parent's search criteria: you could get around that by simply allowing a "viewscheme" to be one of the search/filter criteria when you set up a new theater view viewscheme. That way you wouldn't have to nest anything. All viewschemes could be equal but link to each other to narrow their lists.

[raym]

Maybe I am misunderstanding the issue, but wouldnt a Windows media center approach solve all the problems between the choice of nested views/view menu. 

I developed a mock-up based on this model. Something like a revolving list of selectable views serving as a means of knowing which view you're currently in as well! I think some people were opposed to the additional real-estate required to show this "view bar" (which I now agree with somewhat).

Anyway, here's the mock-up (for completeness)...

http://www.pix01.com/gallery/7E983800-3866-4113-A403-321A43239740/MC/bigpage.html?image=563033451_orig0.jpg

[raym]

Are we going to see the ability to get details on the individual files once we have reached them in our views, bieng able to click on a film and see plot summaries and other field stored data is as important to me as the ability to sort and filter them logically from the top end. any chance of this? pretty please

I'm confident this "view in detail" idea will finally come together once the basic view scheme stuff is sorted. That's my hope anyway 

[gappie]

since i have some confidence that the nested views or maybe some interesting creative idea will come through, i thought i should put some attention to playing now in Theater View.

go to playing now with a bunch of songs in there. start playing them, and stay in playing now. after some songs, stop the play back with your remote or ctrl S. start the playback again with your remote or ctrl P. now was that something you expected? do you understand why? is that what you whished?

 
gab

[jmone]

I'm still hanging out for my ISO's to be displayed in TheaterView as I can in STDView....Any progress as the only way I can access them is by a seperate Smartlist at the moment
Thanks
Nathan

[MrHaugen]

I'm still hanging out for my ISO's to be displayed in TheaterView as I can in STDView....Any progress as the only way I can access them is by a seperate Smartlist at the moment

Yea. I hope for that as well. Also that that the img's are treated as videos under import. It's very time consuming to mark them as videos every time there is an Auto Import. To have them in they're own documents section is kinda wierd for those of us who only have img's of movies imported.

Edit:
Forget what I said. Image files set as videos will not load in mounting tools outside MC...

[raym]

Matt, based on your timeline in the original post, can we expect Theater View view schemes will be sorted fairly soon? I'm using MC13 exclusively now and am really missing this nesting capability.

Cheers.

[gappie]

Matt, based on your timeline in the original post, can we expect Theater View view schemes will be sorted fairly soon? I'm using MC13 exclusively now and am really missing this nesting capability.

Cheers.

its the only reason why i have my main media database still on 12. 

 
gab

[gappie]

i still believe the view as button is redundant, and not making things simpler.

when i now go to watch videoos, the first step is to click on the view as button.


more logical would be that the first screen is like this:

when choosing for instance movies i see that back in the statusbar at the top. much more clearer and two clicks less.

that leaves one thing in the view as button. the toggle switch. imo this is something that should be set at the place where the views are made. so for thv in the options...

 
gab

[raym]

I agree. With proper support for view nesting (waiting patiently....  ) the "views" button should become uneccessary. I don't recall ever wanting to toggle between thumbs/lists/lineup apart from when setting up my views for the very first time. Therefore, it could just become a setting on the Theater View views dialog. 

[MrHaugen]

I don't recall ever wanting to toggle between thumbs/lists/lineup apart from when setting up my views for the very first time.

Me neither. Why not open a simple Configure wizard similar to Vista MC the first time you use TV? It would make TV easy to use for less tech sawy people.

I don't really understand all this nesting talk, but ont thing that suprises me a lot is that you can't for instance inklude data in Video schemes in TV anymore. In fact, it's not possible to enable any costum view schemes to TV. Maby this is the nesting people talk about? Anyway... There have been posted workarounds for this problems, but come an. That should not be nesassary!

I have bought MC13, but after I found out about this, I don't think I can leave MC12 yet.

[raym]

I don't really understand all this nesting talk

Nesting provides the capability of putting one or more views within a view. For example, when you click on "Video" from the main menu, along the top of your default video view scheme you could have folders for "TV shows", "Home Video", "Movies" etc etc. It's a way of logically grouping ALL relevent media types/categories under an easy to see and navigate system. Just like what's available in standard view under each of the Audio/Images/Video icons.

Since the view schemes area for T'View was relocated to the "options" dialog, this capability has been ommited but will hopefully be re-visited for a (near) future build.

[rjm]

I tried customizing MC13 Theater View for the first time today. It will not be usable for me unless 2 fundamental changes are made to its design:

1) The selection of views must not be restricted to the top 3 standard view buttons.

2) It must be possible to override the Media type filter for each.

These issues are important to me because in standard view I have changed the purpose and names of the top 3 buttons as follows:

Audio -> All (all media types, all files)
Image -> Music (audio only filtered to music only)
Video -> Video (video only excluding family videos)

I have additional views in the root that I would like to duplicate in Theatre View:

Audiobooks (audio only filtered to books)
Family Photos & Video (images and video filtered to family)
Stock Images (images only filtered to stock)

I hope these 2 issues are just birthing pains and are not locked in for the future.

[gappie]

• Finish the Standard View view configuration system.  We've made a lot of changes recently, and need a week or two to polish it off.  This comes before Theater View since Theater View gets built on top of the same engine.

will holding my breath kill me?

 :)
gab

[MrHaugen]

Nesting provides the capability of putting one or more views within a view. For example, when you click on "Video" from the main menu, along the top of your default video view scheme you could have folders for "TV shows", "Home Video", "Movies" etc etc. It's a way of logically grouping ALL relevent media types/categories under an easy to see and navigate system. Just like what's available in standard view under each of the Audio/Images/Video icons.

Since the view schemes area for T'View was relocated to the "options" dialog, this capability has been ommited but will hopefully be re-visited for a (near) future build.

Thanks for the info. I have not used that much my self, as I have mainly used my own "video type" tags and similar to get it as I want in the panes and in theater view. But I can see the need.

[raym]

will holding my breath kill me?

Probably, but I'm doing it too so I'll race ya! First one to drop dead looses 

[park]

The problem with nesting is that it requires the user to set up all the nested viewshcemes with the top level viewscheme empty, so that it just shows the child ones. This is way to complex. Rather than nesting, I think that MC's front page should show all the viewschemes available.

Scroll up and down to change between audio, images, video etc., and then scroll left/rght off of one of those media types to to scroll through all the available viewschemes for that type. Then all a user needs to do when setting up Theater view in the options is tick which viewschemes he want to show up (which is the current method i believe).  Simplicity! 

[gappie]

I think that MC's front page should show all the viewschemes available.

i agree with this. was actually what i tried to show with the twio screenshots from above

The problem with nesting is that it requires the user to set up all the nested viewshcemes with the top level viewscheme empty, so that it just shows the child ones. This is way to complex.

with this i disagree. might be true when the first step is to choose between movies and series, but i have for instance a view in thv (12) what gives me all the artists alphabetic, as a first step. with some nested views besides it, like new records etc. works perfect. no need for an empty screen. just like a nested view in standardview.

 
gab

[raym]

The problem with nesting is that it requires the user to set up all the nested viewshcemes with the top level viewscheme empty, so that it just shows the child ones.

That's not correct.

I think that MC's front page should show all the viewschemes available.

Yep. There's LOADS of room on the main page for something like this - especially for widescreens. Instead of nesting though? I dunno. It sounds like a big change and right now, I really just need the functionality I had in MC12 back, which for all intents and purposes, worked perfectly.

[Matt]

These issues are important to me because in standard view I have changed the purpose and names of the top 3 buttons as follows:

Audio -> All (all media types, all files)
Image -> Music (audio only filtered to music only)
Video -> Video (video only excluding family videos)

We have no plans to support showing audio underneath an item called "Image".  It's sort of a bug that it even allows this.

Allowing customization of what items are shown at the top, along with the number and naming would be nice but it hasn't been a common request.

[jmone]

Any progress on supporting the adding of ISO to Video like you can in STD View?

eg: In STDView you can customise you view (Set Rules for Display) where Media Type = DATA and VIDEO (or any other type).  Hence your ISO then display and play fine as it was in MC12 and outlined in the Wiki.  I can do the EXACT same thing in customisiong the TheaterView views and it DOES NOT display.  The View Scheme implementation is NOT CONSISTANT between the two areas and has removed valuable features in TheaterView.

Thanks
Nathan

[MrHaugen]

We have no plans to support showing audio underneath an item called "Image".  It's sort of a bug that it even allows this.

Mixing Video, Audio and Pictures I can't see much use of my self. But I really don't hope this goes for data and video as well. With isa, img, nrg files etc, this would totally ruin the use of image files in MC.
If we can't explicitly treat the image files as video on import, and make it load outside MC on play, then those of us that use this kind of setup is screwed
I can't jump to MC13 yet because of this. It's sad.

[Matt]

Any progress on supporting the adding of ISO to Video like you can in STD View?

jmone, I recently asked about ISO playback here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=48839.0

We were thinking of allowing a user to set any media type for the ISO files, but then always play them like data files.

I seems more natural than showing data files under "Video".

[jmone]

jmone, I recently asked about ISO playback here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=48839.0

There are several threads on the subject now - i've seen (and posted) on this one as well as the others.

We were thinking of allowing a user to set any media type for the ISO files, but then always play them like data files.

I seems more natural than showing data files under "Video".

The suggestion works for me as, ISO (and other similar file formats such as nrg / img / dvd etc) are DISK IMAGES that can contain a image of a Audio CD, Data CD, Video DVD, Data DVD, Blu-ray, HD-DVD in fact anythings.  To know what is "in" th ISO you first need to mount the image with a Virtual Drive (eg Virtual Clone Drive, Deamon Tools) and which point the PC just sees it has if you had put a physical disk into a physcial drive.  Auto play would then kick in a deal with the disk depending on if it is a Audio CD, Data CD, Video DVD, Data DVD, Blu-ray, or HD-DVD etc.

I belive there are some apps that can mount/play DVD ISO's directly but the normal flow would be as follows:
- Create ISO of your Disk (CD / DVD / Blu-ray etc)
- Import ISO into MC Library and Tag as Video / Audio etc, apply coverart (which now works thanks!)
- Navigate to the Audio / Video view scheme as normal
- Press "Play" in MC on an ISO file
- ISO is "mounted" by VCD / Daemon Tools etc
- PC "see" the content of the Virtual Disk (eg CD / DVD / Blu-ray etc)
- MC (or other app) then "plays" according the the Auto Start features set in Windows using your configured Direct Show filters etc just like you stuck a physical disk into a physcial drive


So I think it is IDEAL if in MC;
1) ISO (and nrg / img / dvd etc) files are always played like DATA (eg MEDIATYPE = DATA)
2) You can tag each individual file as Video, Audio, Data etc so it appears in the correct view in Both STD and Theater View (eg SUB MEDIATYPE = Video / Audio / etc)

Easy!
Thanks
Nathan

[rjm]

We have no plans to support showing audio underneath an item called "Image".  It's sort of a bug that it even allows this.

Allowing customization of what items are shown at the top, along with the number and naming would be nice but it hasn't been a common request.

Thanks for responding Matt.

I view the top 3 buttons (Audio, Image, Video) as shortcuts to the 3 most commonly used views. As such there should be nothing special about the 3 views other than their nice prominent location on the u/i. I can see how for a new user the default settings make sense, however as a library grows there are many other useful applications for them and it should be possible to customize all aspects including the Media type filter and name of the button. These customizations are possible (with an edit to the language translation file) and work well in standard view.

I am proposing that the same customizations be possible in theatre view. I understand your point that the majority of people won't initially care about this. But they probably will as they become more experienced with the product. And I don't understand why you would want to treat the top 3 as being different from any other view. Consistency is a good thing for usability, and usually simplifies the code.

[MrHaugen]

We were thinking of allowing a user to set any media type for the ISO files, but then always play them like data files.

I seems more natural than showing data files under "Video".

The problem with not being able to add media type "data" to you're Video view scheme is that you have to constantly tag files with media type "Video" every time an image file is imported.
I think it's important that you can add the data types to the Video view scheme. It's not logical to have a separate Documents view just for the DVD's imo.

The way it was in MC12 just worked. Would be more than happy if this functionality was reinstated.

As there could be other media types in image files, another approach could be to set the media type of the data files under import or auto import. Especialy under auto import.
That way you could have image files with "data" both under video, audio, images or plain data.

[gappie]

Any progress on supporting the adding of ISO to Video like you can in STD View?

eg: In STDView you can customise you view (Set Rules for Display) where Media Type = DATA and VIDEO (or any other type).  Hence your ISO then display and play fine as it was in MC12 and outlined in the Wiki.  I can do the EXACT same thing in customisiong the TheaterView views and it DOES NOT display.  The View Scheme implementation is NOT CONSISTANT between the two areas and has removed valuable features in TheaterView.

Thanks
Nathan

100% agree.

We have no plans to support showing audio underneath an item called "Image".  It's sort of a bug that it even allows this.

it that case there is still a 'bug' in standard view.

[gappie]

Thanks for any feedback.

what do you guys think. is there enough feedback? did it gave you some ideas? will thv stay as it is now?

[raym]

... will Theater View stay as it is now?

Gees, I hope not but I'm starting to get worried... This thread is 2 months old now and as far as I can tell, the "Standard View configuration system" has been complete for some time.

I think the reason some of us may seem impatient is because this aspect of Theater View really appears to have taken a backwards step. I'm keen to see this resolved so I can "move on" and enjoy using MC13 exclusively.

Thanks

[JimH]

We had a long talk about it this morning.  Nothing specific to announce yet.

[gappie]

i was also worried, raym. testing all those nice new features, i also want to move over. but i was afraid im going to regret it, since i use thv so much.

We had a long talk about it this morning.  Nothing specific to announce yet.

this really makes me happy. cant wait to see what you guys come up with.

[gappie]

since you guys are talking about it i had this small thought, guess i should post it here. 

at this moment, when you look at thv to find the file which is under the play now button, you always get this green arrow icon, undependend from if the file is really playing, paused, or stopped. would it not be nice if it would give an other icon for each state it is in...  . would be nice, especially when the behaviour of playing now gets an update.
skinneable, like NumberImages="3"

 
gab