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[m1abrams]

JRiver is one of the better media managers out there, however dropping the ball on ipod support just makes it completely unusable for me.

So yet another example of why I will not continue to support JRiver.  Sorta of the same reasons JRiver gives for not supporting Apple.  Because it is just too ** hard.

JRiver states they "may" come back to support the Apple, while in the meantime anyone wanting one of the latest and most popularly portable media devices is left unsupported.  Not really a good idea for a media manager.

[prod]

Have I missed something here?

I use my fifth-gen iPod 60gb with MC without any problems... perhaps we need a definitive list of which devices MC supports and what it doesn't, and which issues are associated with each. And perhaps in a nice colour-coded table.

[m1abrams]

Have I missed something here?

I use my fifth-gen iPod 60gb with MC without any problems... perhaps we need a definitive list of which devices MC supports and what it doesn't, and which issues are associated with each. And perhaps in a nice colour-coded table.

Well currently ipods that do not work.  iPod Touch, iPhone, latest Nano.  Not sure about the very latest Classic (120GB one).  But it looks like pretty much any new ipod that Apple will release from now on.

[Bod]

I've already moved on - for an inferior product I must say, but one that works with my device.  Sorry.

[robydago]

I've already moved on - for an inferior product I must say, but one that works with my device.  Sorry.

I'd rather change device... or better yet, never buy a device from a company that force me to use their software

[gappie]

JRiver is one of the better media managers out there, however dropping the ball on ipod support just makes it completely unusable for me.

So yet another example of why I will not continue to support JRiver.  Sorta of the same reasons JRiver gives for not supporting Apple.  Because it is just too ** hard.

JRiver states they "may" come back to support the Apple, while in the meantime anyone wanting one of the latest and most popularly portable media devices is left unsupported.  Not really a good idea for a media manager.

i do understand that people are disappointed that mc stoped supporting there favorite 'device'.
i have two 'devices' and you know what. they are not supported by mc. they 'just' work with mc.
i always found it a bit strange that with all those 'devices' around there had to be a thread to identify each different subspecies of one 'device'.
i guess that just another fart of steve made all that work worthless. an update would be taking away to many man hours that could be used on more interesting projects.

but that is just my guess

 
gab

[m1abrams]

I'd rather change device... or better yet, never buy a device from a company that force me to use their software

Well point to another device that has the third party support that the ipod has.  Also make sure that device supports local DB so that I can browse by tag data.  I hate devices that browse only by file structure, which tends to be all the ones that do not require sync software. 

While Apple does make some strange choices, they are the dominating factor in the market.  Until that changes that will dictate what portable I use.  Since there are many choices for media managers, and some that actually work or are actively making syncing work with the ipod I see no reason to stay with MC.  Besides which is cheaper, new media software or new portable?

MC has some very nice features however it also has many that I will never use and all of the added features of R13 are focused at the parts I will never use.  Music Management is my primary requirement with ability to sync to portables, R13 has not adding many if any features for music.

[Bod]

I'd rather change device... or better yet, never buy a device from a company that force me to use their software

But they're not forcing me to use their software.  I'm using another non-iTunes product.

[raldo]

[...]
Also make sure that device supports local DB so that I can browse by tag data.  I hate devices that browse only by file structure, which tends to be all the ones that do not require sync software. 
[...]

Are there really phones/players out there that browse media by file structure?! I've never seen that.

Sony Ericsson, Nokia, Samsung, any WM unit, use tag data. And they sync perfectly with MC..

[Mr ChriZ]

Well point to another device that has the third party support that the ipod has.  Also make sure that device supports local DB so that I can browse by tag data.  I hate devices that browse only by file structure, which tends to be all the ones that do not require sync software. 

There's quite a few out there.  Take a look at some of the Cowon players.  There's loads of others too. I'm no expert in this area.
While apple leads in some areas, they lack in others like audio quality.

[m1abrams]

There's quite a few out there.  Take a look at some of the Cowon players.  There's loads of others too. I'm no expert in this area.
While apple leads in some areas, they lack in others like audio quality.

Last I checked the Cowon players did not allow you to browse by tag data.  I just went to their website to see if it has changed, even downloaded a manual for the O2.  However their site mentions nothing of that feature, and the review sites I search on seem to say they still do not allow browse by tag.

I think the Cowon players are great I wish they did not miss that one big feature.  Note though in order for a portable media player to have the ability to browse by tags it must have a database built based on the music.  This means either syncing program that builds the db and puts it on the device, or the device scans its music and builds it itself.  Note the later option is what the Rockbox firmware does and it is a little slow.  Any device that you just use it as a usb mass storage device and drag files to it will either not allow browse by tag, or has to build the DB itself after you stop adding music, I only know of Rockbox that does this.

[Mr ChriZ]

My Cowon D2 definitley allows me to browse by Album/ Artist or genre.  Unfortunatley I've misplaced the thing at the moment
else I'd tell you what else it can do!

I know my brothers Creative Player does the same.

I'd imagine it's not mentioned in the specs because it's just assumed...

My advice buy a player which is about the size of the brick, less easy to lose :-)
The D2's about the size of a credit card only about 1cm thick.

[m1abrams]

My Cowon D2 definitley allows me to browse by Album/ Artist or genre.  Unfortunatley I've misplaced the thing at the moment
else I'd tell you what else it can do!

I know my brothers Creative Player does the same.

I'd imagine it's not mentioned in the specs because it's just assumed...

My advice buy a player which is about the size of the brick, less easy to lose :-)
The D2's about the size of a credit card only about 1cm thick.

I actually have had 2 creative Zen players however that was some time ago.  They did require sync software of some sort, I use to use RedChair software for that while not the greatest it was much better than what creative offered.  However I hope the new creative players have a better UI, the older ones a drunk monkey could have designed a better UI.

[Mr ChriZ]

I didn't get on with the Creative UI either.
The D2's quite usable although a bit finicity on the basis of being so small.

[raldo]

[...]Creative[...]They did require sync software of some sort,[...]

Creative players can be used as mass storage devices, I.e. you don't have to use their sw. Creative players are also tag based.

As a matter of fact, most players (except from Apple) have a mass storage interface *where the internal software* recognizes he files. Windows Mobile players, of course, use Active Sync.

Of course if you use one of the new platforms (WM, Android, etc) anyone can make players and the player UI is up to the software vendor. On my HTC units, I have used Pocket Player which is an excellent piece of sw.

[lalittle]

JRiver is one of the better media managers out there, however dropping the ball on ipod support just makes it completely unusable for me.

So yet another example of why I will not continue to support JRiver.  Sorta of the same reasons JRiver gives for not supporting Apple.  Because it is just too ** hard.

JRiver states they "may" come back to support the Apple, while in the meantime anyone wanting one of the latest and most popularly portable media devices is left unsupported.  Not really a good idea for a media manager.

I just wanted to share some of my thoughts on this subject.  Please note that this post is NOT intended to cause any arguments or animosity.  My feeling is that as a long time and continuing supporter of MC, my thoughts on this subject might be helpful to JRiver since iPod support is a central issue to me:

I am also extremely saddened about the potential loss of continuing support for iPods in MC.  I actually discovered MC because of it's superior support for the iPod compared to the software that shipped with our first iPod (which was not iTunes at that time), and then later in comparison to iTunes.  With future MC/iPod support waning, however, I'm completely unsure how to proceed.  Another player?  Easy to say, but difficult if not impossible to find an alternative that has all the features I need at this point.  A separate program for syncing?  This might work okay for regular mp3's, but not for file types like aa files that don't allow direct tagging.  I will certainly continue to support MC as I have for several years now, but my iPod is a critical component of my media organization paradigm, so I'm at a loss as to what I'll do.

I hear people talking about iPod alternatives all the time, but I've searched sites like anythingbutipod.com and am unable to find even one unit that has all the features I need.  I'll be the first to admit that the iPod leaves a LOT to be desired in many ways, and that Apple is at the core (ha!) of why this is a problem at all, but at this time the iPod Classics are the only players I can find that don't have any "deal breaking" omissions.  Alternate players have either WAY to little storage (I need at least 120GB), or they don't support Audible file playback, or they lack some other basic feature that eliminates them from my consideration.

I actually understand JR's frustration on this front, and can't blame them for not wanting to have to constantly deal with Apple's constant firmware hassles.  Make no mistake -- I definitely see Apple as the bad guys here.  On the other hand, however, the iPod is by FAR the most popular portable media player by leaps and bounds, and for a lot of people, handheld support is probably "the" determining factor when it comes to what media application they use.  People don't want to have to manage more than one app for their music (and other media), so support for their particular handheld will likely determine their media organizer application.  Given this, my fear is that loss of iPod support could really cut into support for MC by the general public.  I'm constantly advising iTunes users to switch to MC for syncing their iPods (and know of at least a few MC licenses sold because of this), but without iPod support, a big reason for them to start using MC is taken away.  The thinking becomes "why use MC when I still have to use iTunes to sync anyway?"

I guess I'm writing this in the hopes that JR might re-consider the level of R&D they put toward iPod support as we move forward.  Again, this is an admittedly frustrating proposition, but with the 80GB and 160GB iPod Classics quickly heading toward "outdated" status, and with new iPods continually appearing that require newer firmware and newer versions of iTunes to install it, this will become a bigger and bigger issue.

Thanks for letting me voice my feelings on this issue here,

Larry

[ThoBar]

Very well put lalittle. Sums up my point of view almost perfectly, and in a much better way than I could have.

It should also be noted, that there exists the opportunity for a programmer with some skill to get the ball rolling with their own plugin for the iThings...

[m1abrams]

lalittle - Thank you for your post, that is exactly what I wanted to put in words but was unable to do it as well as you.

[JimH]

Have you told Apple how you feel?

[rjm]

Glynor has proposed (several times) what appears to be a good solution for long term stable support of all iPods. I have not seen a response from JRiver with their thoughts on his suggestion.

[JimH]

I'm locking this now.

Please tell Apple how you feel.