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Poll

If the price were reasonable, would you consider a box from J. River to connect your PC and your TV?

Yes
- 42 (37.5%)
Maybe
- 32 (28.6%)
No - I've done it
- 15 (13.4%)
No - I use a PC, not a TV
- 6 (5.4%)
No - No interest
- 17 (15.2%)
No opinion
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 110


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Author Topic: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?  (Read 18409 times)

JimH

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Most of us at JRiver have connected a PC to our TV, but it often feels half baked.  We're thinking of offering a comprehensive hardware/software solution as a package.

If JRiver sourced a very small and good looking PC (example below), configured it with XP or Vista, added MC, a remote and receiver, and made it available for a price that was competitive with other PC's, would you find it interesting?

It would be really interesting to us to hear how you currently solve this problem.  The more detail the better.

Thanks.



Here's an example of the type of box we'd offer:

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Mr ChriZ

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Priced well I could be interested.  Price could be a difficulty, in that the likes of WD are producing boxes for £79 that do similar things.  However I'd imagine your system would be far more flexible which would keep me interested if priced well.

cncb

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Maybe, but I would be more interested in a "hardware media extender" that could display Theater View.  I use an extender from another company now with a plugin that allows you to browse the MC library.  The things I like about extenders are generally all the "anti-PC" characteristics: silent, cheap (generally <$200), no lockups, no keyboard necessary, and no endless fiddling with drivers and settings.
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JimH

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Just to be clear, this would not be a typical consumer electronics device (single purpose, specialized interface).  This would be a PC (general purpose, Windows) tuned for media and for remote control.  No "endless fiddling with drivers and settings" unless you wanted to fiddle.  The point of doing it would be to try to deliver a standard configuration that just worked.
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cncb

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I understand, I was just stating why I would prefer a stand-alone (non-PC) device specialized for MC.  With a PC there is always a chance of Windows Update or some other software coming along and messing things up.
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Osho

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I have connected my PC to my TV for last 7 years. I have used Media Center during this entire period (been a customer since Media Jukebox days). During this time, I have gone through 2 different HDTV sets and 3 different PC configurations (not counting minor PC component upgrades).

Now, and in future, I plan to continue to use MC as the chosen software for managing music, personal pictures and personal videos. However, I find it lacking significantly to provide a "one stop solution" (such as the proposed Synapse). Here are my two main complaints:

1. TV Support is no where as good as other softwares such as BeyondTV and SageTV. Particularly for items such as advertisement skipping, seamless EPG integration, accessing and administrating recorded shows from other PCs (both in the home intranet and internet), suspend and resume PC from sleep as and when needed.
2. Blu-ray: I currently use PowerDVD Ultra for playing back Blu-ray. Now that Blu-ray is the chosen HD movies format, MC should support it as well as DVD, IMHO.

The third, relatively minor, compliant is access to online media such as netflix.com and other on-demand video content (most major TV networks have this such as abc.com, cbs.com, fox.com, nbc.com). The only acceptable solution I have found for this is a RF wireless keyboard+mouse combo controlling IE or Firefox.

Until, at least the top 2 complaints are resolved, I do not see a "one stop solution" based on MC12 alone.

Since, details were asked in the first post :), here are the details of what I have done to get an almost seamless completely functional PC paired with TV experience.

Hardware components (besides the usual PC components including a Blu-ray drive)
  • USB-UIRT receiver
  • universal programmable remote - I use RF remote - Harmony 890 but any other programmable remote will do
  • RF wireless keyboard+mouse combo. I use Adesso WKB-4000US
  • one of the newer graphics cards with HDMI support that can decode most HD formats (over the air or the 3 Blu-ray formats) via hardware
  • a OTA HDTV tuner card. I have a Happauge WinTV-HDR-1800 but any decent card would suffice.

Software components
  • J River MC - my favorite of course :). For music, pictures and video.
  • BeyondTV 4.9 - for watching and recording TV. Also, for streaming to other PCs in Home.
  • PowerDVD Ultra - For watching Blu-ray
  • Byremote HIP - for interfacing remote control with BeyondTV and PowerDVD. I use USBUIRT plugin for MC.

I think there is a HUGE market for such a PC device. I have had countless guests visit my home who all loved the idea of the "finished product" of my HTPC - however when I explained them how much software/device configuration etc. is needed (especially time commitment) to get it all working - the enthusiasm subsided.

Thanks,
Osho


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JimH

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Thanks, Osho.  Great feedback.
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gappie

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i voted no.. i have no interest in anything television. jriver will not change that.  ;)

 :)
gab
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glynor

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I voted yes in the poll above.  However, the real answer is a bit more complex.  I personally use only PCs.  I have my one main TV which is a HDTV connected to a PC.  For all my other rooms I use existing PCs with MC and BeyondTV Link or my laptop.  For myself, I'd probably never buy a pre-built PC, preferring to build them myself.  I've used my PC with my TV in one form or another for 10 years.  Originally it was just for music support with visualizers, but now everything runs through the PC.

However, I would certainly consider one of these devices for work and would strongly recommend one (if built well and really delivers) for many of my friends and family.  If it were priced right (under $500, preferably closer to $300), I know of at least 2 friends who would be interested and both sets of parents (mine and my wife's) would be interested.

Considering the price constraints, though, I feel a bit differently than Osho on it.  Here are some thoughts about capabilities in no particular order:

BluRay: No one that I'd recommend one of these devices to would be willing to pay more for a BluRay player.  If this was included, I would recommend it as a build-to-order option only, as it would help to keep the price down.

GPU (Graphics Power): Video game support with a high-end GPU wouldn't be required either.  However, I'd recommend against using Intel integrated graphics because it limits you WAY too much in the way of 3D capabilities (even for applications like Theater View) and then you're stuck supporting it for years to come with your software.  Nvidia and AMD both have promising and cheap low-end solutions that are a much better option.  The Nvidia and AMD solutions also tend to support a much wider variety of displays and timings (such as the common 24p problem) much more easily than those solutions from Intel.

CPU: Whatever.  Probably wouldn't go Atom because of the GPU limitations in currently available chipsets.  Anything low-end would be good though, and if you aren't looking to move anytime soon, Nvidia is supposedly working on a chipset with an integrated GPU for netbooks that could be a good option.

TV Tuner:  This would be a requirement.  I completely agree with Osho here that MC is still quite a ways behind the curve in this regard.  It is getting closer, but you'd still need a LOT more work before it'd be ready to go.  The test here needs to be: the user plugs the cable TV coax in to the back of the device, types their Zip code into the setup wizard, chooses their cable provider (and tier if needed), and voila they have a TiVO-replicated DVR through a Theater View UI with at least as much capabilities as Windows Vista Media Center edition.  It doesn't need to be quite as advanced or fancy as BeyondTV or SageTV (at least at first) to satisfy the people I think would be interested, but it does need to be that simple for people with regular analog cable TV.  It does also need to be capable of OTA HDTV reception with an antenna, with a similar "type your zipcode, choose antenna, receive guide data for OTA transmissions).  Some of the people I'd recommend the device to would be people who are using Antennas for programming at home and will need to buy converter boxes or new TVs for the transition in February.

It would also need a way to work with external cable boxes for people with Digital Cable and satellite service (USB-UIRT external device control).  The setup for this also needs to be VERY simple (a standard setup wizard where you "teach" the USB-UIRT the remote control codes using your cable box's remote, and again type in your zip code).  The USB-UIRT can be sold separately.  To support external HDTV from satellite I would recommend selling and supporting the Hauppauge HD-PVR device.  Perhaps two tiers of devices: (1) $300-$500 SD only supporting standard analog cable and OTA reception, and (2) $1000-1100 HD box with a HD-PVR, USB-UIRT, and perhaps even BluRay.

Hard Drive: 250-350 GB would probably cut it.  If you go the two-tier route, the HDTV version would require higher storage as well.  Whatever you can squeeze into the price point and still keep a nice profit margin.  Perhaps consider 2.5" drives for silence, energy efficiency, and size.  If that drives up costs too much though I wouldn't worry about it, and it might limit you for a HDTV tiered box too.

Remote Control:  Needs something good, RF, and simple.  You might have better ideas than me in this regard, but it does need to "Just Work".  RF Keyboard and Mouse would be good too so you can use it from the couch.

Handheld Support:  You might not like this, I know...  However, you really need some hook that will provide value over a TiVo or cable-company provided DVR as a selling point and since MC has such prowess for music playback... I really think the best opportunity for this (combined with the DVR support) is to support automatic compression and conversion for handheld playback.  The question people at my lab ask the most is how to get the shows off of their DVR/TiVO and onto their iPod.  Automatic conversion to H264 MP4 and uploading to iPods, plus Podcasting support, plus MC's already-existing music/photo handling prowess... If you can make this easy, you've really got something.  

All in all, it could be a fantastic device.  Theater View is pretty good now as is (especially if we get a few more built-in default views).  The main place that needs work is the TV support ease-of-use.  You've been working hard on this but it it still feels like it has a long way to go.
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raym

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With a device like this, Theater View becomes the focus. As a result, there are some key things missing from the current Theater View implementation that most people (not neccessarily myself) will no doubt expect:

1. EPG (although this is probably on it's way)
2. RIP/BURN DVDs and CDs
3. Sync to handheld
4. Browse and play media files from handhelds and other flash memory devices

While this is all possible in MC's standard view, to make the most of the whole TV/remote control experience, these functions would need to be brought into Theater View.

Thanks.
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JimH

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2008, 04:04:45 pm »

Handheld Support:  You might not like this, I know...  However, you really need some hook that will provide value over a TiVo or cable-company provided DVR as a selling point and since MC has such prowess for music playback... I really think the best opportunity for this (combined with the DVR support) is to support automatic compression and conversion for handheld playback.  
Thanks for the feedback, Ed.  MC does convert video now when syncing with a PSP or iPod or compatible.  I'm not sure it currently works with our TV recording, but it will.  I believe it's fair use.
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glynor

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2008, 04:12:26 pm »

Thanks for the feedback, Ed.  MC does convert video now when syncing with a PSP or iPod or compatible.  I'm not sure it currently works with our TV recording, but it will.  I believe it's fair use.

I know.  Currently it does work pretty well but it is a bit "twitchy" to get set up properly (esoterically named options and conversion settings).  For it to have set-top like ease-of-use, it really needs to be a simple "check a box to sync this show to your iPod" (and a one-time pop-up select your device dialog).
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JimH

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2008, 04:17:57 pm »

I know.  Currently it does work pretty well but it is a bit "twitchy" to get set up properly (esoterically named options and conversion settings).  For it to have set-top like ease-of-use, it really needs to be a simple "check a box to sync this show to your iPod" (and a one-time pop-up select your device dialog).
If MC can identify the device, it should choose appropriate settings for it.  This is automatic.  The user should only have to drag a video to the device in the Action Window.  I'm sure there are devices where we've neglected to set the conversion.

For a device MC doesn't recognize, you must choose Options/Handhelds/Conversion/Video and select a conversion type.  I don't think that's avoidable.
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glynor

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2008, 04:20:13 pm »

It's been a while since I set it up.  Perhaps I need to check it again for specific feedback.

EDIT: Either way, I'd still say this is a good way to go.
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rpalmer68

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2008, 04:38:31 pm »

I'm just setting up a new room now and somethiung like this could be really helpful as space is limited.

In terms of tuners, I woud have thought using USB tuners could be better as those of us in the DVB-T world won't make use of anythig inbuilt for the US market.

For my current setup I use two dedicated PCs in my two rooms both running MC off a central library (both read-only).

I use a generic remote with the usb-uirt on one and Netremote on the main htpc.

My main htpc runs webscheduler for TV scheduling recording to a share that both PC's can access.

I have 4 tuners on the main htpc and 1 tuner on the second PC just for live TV playback.

Main htpc has blu-ray drive and PowerDVD, other PC just a normal DVD drive.

I'd also agree with Ralf that a few extra functions from Theater View are needed, EPG, and Burn CD/DVDs being big ones for me.


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prod

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2008, 04:45:08 pm »

I've tried the whole PC-TV thing and using the PC as a PC while it's plugged into the TV is just plain annoying and gave me headaches, as well as annoying to anyone in the room who wants to watch the TV or talk to you, or talk to each other while you're using it.

However, it's all about content. If you can easily access on-demand TV, sport, movies and music videos from this thing then great. But then you have to compete with a lot of very cheap (and many times "free") media providers.

I voted not interested - there are solutions out there that are more specialised and therefore better suited than a PC.
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Doof

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2008, 08:18:17 pm »

Here's the thing about hooking a PC running MC up to a TV. I've done it. And the experience has been a mixed bag.

First of all, it's nice to be able to access all of my music, pictures, and videos from the comfort of my couch using just a remote.

Unfortunately, that's kind of where it stops.

I built the PC with the intention of sticking an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray combo drive in it, confident that MC would support both formats. In the end HD-DVD went away so the support never came. So I waited around for Blu-Ray support. About 2 months ago I gave up waiting and spent about $400 on a Blu-Ray player.

So now I have Dish Network (our cable provider here really sucks) and am using their ViP 622 DVR for TV. I have a Sony Blu-Ray player to watch DVD/Blu-Ray movies. I have the PC with MC running to listen to my music, view my pictures, and watch my videos. And I have the Xbox 360 which plays HD-DVD and lets me stream movies from Netflix.

I'm clearly willing to spend the money. But I don't want or need another PC running MC, even if it is a fraction of the size of what I'm using now.

What I really want/need is one box that can do all of that stuff, from one interface, using just my remote. It's the dream of the HTPC and as far as I can tell, it's never really been fully realized. I can't really use MC as my DVR as I'm using satellite. I could throw a Blu-Ray drive in there and watch Blu-Ray movies, but I'd have to drop out of Theater View to do it. I can stream Netflix movies, but I have to bust out a keyboard and mouse and fire up a web browser to do it. No thanks.

I'll admit I haven't looked at any of the more expensive Windows or Linux software packages out there in quite a while, so maybe it's possible now. What I have now gets the job done, so I really haven't been looking. But I voted "Maybe" because, if all these things I listed above came to be, then it would be very attractive to me.
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darichman

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2008, 08:40:17 pm »

I could only commit to a "maybe", I'm afraid. Like some others, I've set things up so that I've strayed away from using a TV at all. Sometimes I'll hook my laptop up (and I'll still use MC) on the big telly, but generally I'm happy with my 26'' LCD monitor.

That's not to say that I think such a project is a bad idea, however. I actually think it's something that might appeal to a wide user base. As long as it'd be ready to go with minimal user input and came preconfigured with all the important codecs etc, you might have a winner. The key is idiot (read: wife, mother/father, sister-proof :))

Another advantage I can see is the ability to take with with you (photo slideshows or movie nights at a friends?)... I'll be keeping an eye on progress, at any rate ;)
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park

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2008, 10:47:11 pm »

How would you deal with getting all the right directshow filters installed? I think if you could get it et up so that it would have all that stuff installed (auto updateable) and configured for seamless playback in MC you'd be onto a winner. I'd get one. I bought the sony vaioo tp1 for exactly that purpose (a MC computer for the living room).

A couple of things that the sony remote does well:
It has a "Close appilcation" button which will take you out of MC, and then if you keep pressing it, close MC and then bring up the "shutdown options". You can use this button to quickly shutdown the computer.

It also has a "application switcher" button. So when something steals focus from MC you can just use that button to get back into MC quickly.

The wireless keyboard and it's trackpad are also useful for when you want to use a mouse to use the seekbar whilst in big screen view.
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JimH

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2008, 10:07:07 am »

How would you deal with getting all the right directshow filters installed? I think if you could get it et up so that it would have all that stuff installed (auto updateable) and configured for seamless playback in MC you'd be onto a winner.
We'd install everything we think is needed, and the box would be able to update itself.
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glynor

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2008, 11:08:00 am »

What price range do you think you are going to target?
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JimH

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2008, 11:12:57 am »

What price range do you think you are going to target?
A reasonable price range.  Competitive with other PC's.  We won't know until we spec it.  I'll ask the forum's help on that if we decide to go further.

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rjm

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2008, 11:38:13 am »

I would be very interested in a media extender that worked like a wireless cable. Whatever was output from the PC would be displayed on the TV and/or stereo receiver. No conversions, no compression, no codecs, no nothing. Just a wireless cable.
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AoXoMoXoA

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2008, 11:40:09 am »

I would not purchase such a device, unless perhaps it was a dedicated device doing something that could not be done otherwise and the price very reasonable.

I would purchase I/O devices and interfaces or hardware and software components to add to a PC which I built, but would likely never purchase a complete PC.

I would likely purchase a "JRiver Media Center OS", or a "JRiver MC Dedicate Remote" and I am really interested in new ways to control my remote media PC with my TV (remote controls can be limiting and a laptop is overkill)
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leezer3

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2008, 06:16:05 pm »

Sorry to say it, but if this is just a plain PC with XP plus a marginally rebuilt MC version IMHO it'd be a complete non-starter.
I can forsee all sorts of licencing/ dependancy problems, and there becomes the issue of what happens if a Windows update breaks things somewhere.
Windows is just not an OS that works nicely under the TV.

In summary, if you're heading for this market, it needs to be as simple and painless as a video recorder, Windows, the desktop etc. must never come into the equation.

If you ever consider going further with the Linux port, this could be the perfect inroad to it :)
All you need is one of the currently available multi-media decoder chipsets (Licencing & DirectShow etc. basically taken care of), plus the front-end which you already have in Windows format. Take the main decoder/ casing from something like one of the Popcorn Hour machines, and stick your own Linux based front-end onto it, problem solved! [To be slightly clearer, these all use a Linux based frontend, Broadcomm embedded IIRC]

-Leezer-
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datdude

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2008, 09:03:55 pm »

Thanks, Osho.  Great feedback.

Yeah, I do this as well too.

I think the benefits are fairly obvious, but there are numerous not so easy to solve problems (which could be a good thing if solved by JRiver):

1) Screen DPI.  You can fairly easily make everything bigger in Windows, but then some programs don't change well (including MC http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=47801.msg327678#msg327678).

   a) If that's not fixed, you have to get a third party plugin to make Firefox auto zoom and it only works fairly well.

2) Noise and heat from the PC.  PCs, especially multimedia PCs, get hot and transfer lots of data meaning lots of noisy fans and hard drives and sometimes means my system freezing up on me from doing too many things at once or for too long.

3) If this is going to be a true HTPC you have to make it easy to add LOTS (5+tbs) of HD space with out the problems of above, not easy.

4) Form factor.  Most entertainment centers don't have room for a full tower so the 2 problems above become magnified.

5) Can you suppress all the stupid things Windows does that annoys the hell out of you, like slow boot times, random prompts for inane things, BSOD, horrible BR support, Hokey Auto Play system, etc...

If not I will continue to tweak my own system (with MC of course) and work to eventually build a better HTPC learning all the problems I have found through buying an off the shelf system.

I think what you are proposing can be done but could be a bit like going down a rabbit hole in order to get it just right.  Would take lots of R&D imho so the cost would be high to get it to market if you want to offer something better then what is already out there.

The other way to approach it from a business perspective is to assume you can't just 'get it right' solving all of these types of problems with the perfect box, but instead figuring out what is the one or 2 things you could solve and add value to this market that would get people to raise an eyebrow and convert? 

One of those things I think clearly is turnkey HD content playback.  There are so many problems getting this to work right including disk space, sources for the content, and basic support for the playback.  Get that right, and I definitely would consider it just for that alone.
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Robo983

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2008, 09:26:46 am »

I voted maybe, I go with what Osho said above. I use BTV for recorded video and JRiver for Audio and Image. Now thanks to MC13 and Nested menu and other great new features as compared to MC12 I just shut down Meedio for playing my network video files.

I am generlly opposed to single use devices. If MC had a plugin for Rendering UPnP (like XBMC) it would allow it to be somewhat expandable to other services MC does not support. My example is NetFlix and Blockbuster video on demand. Both sell a specific box tuned to there service that do only that one thing. Or you could spend a little more and now get an XBOX 360 that has UPnP, connects to Netflix and you can play your games. The XBOX 360 also works with MC UPnP and you get very good access to all your media. With UPnP rendering you could add on Playon and Tversity to access the preloaded content. I find adding online content to MC a little too much work as compared to the preloaded stuff on PlayOn and Tversity.

So if your box or MC had a render it could have some expandability. I too want to get away from HTPCs and go with a non-windows set up for the  reasons previously mentioned.
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pank2002

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2008, 07:44:10 am »

This would be tempting if the price was right. I do think it would be nice if it was not based on Windows though. Maybe a nice, stable Linux system would be better? It should be low on power usage as well. And it should utilize a fanless design to reduce noise to a minimum, if possible.

I have no idea abput hardware, but I do have some thoughts on the software-side.

I would love to use MC with a PC. However, as Osho said, MC is not the best at everything. This is definitely a problem. I have said before and I will use this opportunity to repeat myself; MC should use a more unix-like approach to software. You cannot be best at everything. Instead integrate the best. If SageTV is the best TV-interace use that instead of building your own interface. It is a wase of resources to make a solution that is no better than what is already out there.
I do not know if this is possible with the current license, though.

I think the new Theaterview looks great, but is it greater than XBMC? Would it be better to work on the core of MC and integrate it with XBMC? I know it is opensource and that might make some trouble.

Also, I think MC needs to be more open to user extension. For example, I would like to integrate cool music-stores such as Magnatunes or Jamedoo into MC. Why not provide a interface to do it? As far as I know this is not possible, but maybe it should.

What is the point of all this? If MC want the nice, cozy place beneath the TV being the central media hub it needs to provide the best possible solution. However, this is not possible! Only by realizing this can MC be the best. Only by using MC as the backbone and providing the best components-integration can MC be the best. That is at least my humble opinion.

The people in this thread who has set up impressive HTPCs all use more than one application. I doubt this is avoidable. To quote Doof what is needed is a "one box that can do all of that stuff, from one interface". I guess all the things are available via PC but not with one interface. This is where MC should strike IMO.

--
Also regarding the whole handheld thing: some time ago I wanted to burn a DVD for a friend with some TV-shows. I have no other burner-software installed. However, it does not seem like MC has a DVD compatibility setting when burning. The shows were xvid and plays nicely on the computer. However, it did not work in her DVD-player. It would be nice if shows were easily converted when burned. I think it is already possible with MC, it is just not very easy.

Cheers,
Rasmus
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MrHaugen

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2008, 10:08:50 am »

I voted "No - I've done it". I'm way to picky to hope for this box to be of my taste. I also like them to be stereo component sized. Allready have a unit set up, and it would probably be a long time untill I need another one.
For people that don't have such a unit today, this could be a good option though! I would recommend it to any of my friends with "normal" media need. The thought of a full MC box fully set up and ready to use is tempting.

The one thing I'm sceptical to is the TV Tuner support. There are DVB-T, DVB-C, DVB-S and the Canadian broadcasting type (don't remember the name). And some (if not all) of this types comes with MPEG2 as well as MPEG4 encoding. All of this should be supported. At least one good TV tuner for each broadcast type, so everyone could use the box for PVR.
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IlPadrino

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2008, 10:29:55 am »

I voted yes...  I'm in the market for some dedicated hardware like I indicated in the post http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=49714.0 which mentioned the Neuros Link (http://www.neurostechnology.com/neuros-link).  The Synapse (cool name!) sounds like it would do the same thing, except it's more about the hardware (something beefy) than the software (MC vs. open source would seem to be a clear win for MC in any packaged solution where the user didn't have to worry about any of the integration).  If you guys could manage the HDMI, digital audio out, HDTV tuner, remote, and access to networked media (which, to me is better than trying to cram sufficient storage into your device), all on top of MC, then I'd be ALL IN for a reasonable price.

Still, the open source community may provide a level of innovation unmatched by any single integrator.

Quiet would be the added killer feature that would let me put it right next to my AV receiver, Xbox360, and DVD player.
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imugli

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2008, 12:02:07 am »

Said yes. Perhaps not for my main HTPC just yet (it has 2 * HDDs, 2 * soundcards, tuner card etc), but definitely for Bedroom / 2nd line HTPC's connected to my main HTPC via network.

imugli

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2008, 08:53:04 am »

Whilst I agree that MC is NOT the best at everything, I do believe it to be better at MORE things than any other software. For instance, the TV side of MC isn't as good as say, Sage TV or MythTV but it works well at what it does. The rest of the program is a different story. There is nothing else out there that let's you do half as much customisation of your library as this baby does and I think that is the point a lot of people miss. 

When I bring up my Media Center, I don't want to have to scroll through my folders to find my files - I want the software to know where my song is, how I want it to be sorted and displayed and what I want it to be called when it is displayed. Nothing else I have found let's me do this. They all simply bring up a list of folders, with the same ".." at the top. 

If I want to play one of my ripped DVDs, I don't want to have to scroll through a list of files to find the right one. I (or more importantly, the good lady wife) want a thumbnail picture that I can click on and have it play. Nothing else I've found does this like MC.

Sure, it takes some configuring in MC but the results are well worth it. If I wanted to look through my folders, I'd use Explorer.

MC (if I have it correctly) was originally designed as a way to ORGANISE and SORT your media library AS WELL AS play it back. Thus the concentration on the database / library / features. Theater View and TV were pretty much afterthoughts AFTER the whole HTPC thing started taking off. If I have it correctly, the TV feature was feature that was never really meant to be taken that seriously (thus no EPG etc until recently). I'm sure (simply by looking at the changelog) this mindset has changed recently and hopefully in the near future MC will be as good if not better than everything else in TV department as well.

HTPC4ME

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2008, 10:38:15 pm »

i voted no have done it... i think jriver has enough on its plate with trying to keep up with technology, and everyone's requests and many requests not being answered.  Make it the ultimate software for tv\music\blueray\ipods\flashmemories devices\ Satellite\ Xbox 360\ Dvd Ripping\Documents\Etc... (Then Maybe MAYBE Think about it) by adding hardware or more to your plate.. other important requests past present and future will never get looked at! ..  And not to be a downer.. but i'd really hate to have to search for new media software and RELEARN a new media manager due to another Great Software company going out of business.. and eventually not being able to use their product due to no longer giving support\Updates!

Just My Opinion.

Ty You For The Poll. And Happy Holidays To all.
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imugli

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2008, 11:13:02 pm »

i voted no have done it... i think jriver has enough on its plate with trying to keep up with technology, and everyone's requests and many requests not being answered.  Make it the ultimate software for tv\music\blueray\ipods\flashmemories devices\ Satellite\ Xbox 360\ Dvd Ripping\Documents\Etc... (Then Maybe MAYBE Think about it) by adding hardware or more to your plate.. other important requests past present and future will never get looked at! ..  And not to be a downer.. but i'd really hate to have to search for new media software and RELEARN a new media manager due to another Great Software company going out of business.. and eventually not being able to use their product due to no longer giving support\Updates!

Just My Opinion.

Ty You For The Poll. And Happy Holidays To all.

I think these are some good points.

So on that note, how about instead of building and distributing the hardware yourselves, licence people to do it for you? With PCs that run software / hardware tested and endorsed by you guys. You could put together a "Manual" of said software / hardware, create a licencing/endorsement procedure and give a kickback to installers...

Peter_T

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2008, 06:43:18 am »

I'm also in the "No - I've done it" category.  And to echo some others' concerns, I haven't been able to build a maintenance-free machine, no matter how clean I make the install.  Something always requires me to revert to "geek mode" and adjust a setting or two. 

Perhaps if the box received all of its' updates from a MC server you guys could keep them shiny and new (doing the geek work for the customer) but now we're talking about more than a hardware box. 
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SimonT

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Re: POLL: Would you consider the JRiver Synapse (a PC to TV connection device)?
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2008, 04:48:11 pm »

Another one for the "No" category I'm afraid.  I think the wide range of responses show that it would be almost impossible to conceive a hardware configuration that would satisfy a broad (enough) range of users and standards.  Far better perhaps to concentrate on good network support to some existing media front ends to interface to the TV and leave the configuration to the individual.  How about an MC front end designed for PS3 or Wii - that would be perfect.

Personally, I'm still waiting for solid DLNA support for PS3 and would also like MC to replace the Sony M-Crew server - it seems that every new bit of kit these days comes with it's own (probably proprietary) server - frustrating as a customer but a big selling point for MC if it could offer some standardization.
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park

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I agree with the previous comment to a degree. MC would be far more successful if it could be installed on existing popular hardware.

But I do think that eventually the "living room PC" is going to be the winner. People are doing more and more on their PC. My family came to visit me in Japan for christmas and loved being able to check their facebook/flickr, and watch ripped movies on the TV with a wireless keyboard and remote control. MC's theater view has really come a long way recently.

The thing is that nobody has made it effortless to setup yet. My VAIO TP1 looks good in the living room, and does the job well because I dont use any of the stuff that Sony put on there, and spent hours of my own time setting it all up right. The company that releases a beautiful looking HTPC with all the media and internet software people need, pre-set up and auto updated is going to be a big winner I think. Currently it looks like the games consoles are the closest to doing that, but I'm sure that there are a lot of people that just dont want to buy a games console (me included).

The only other point I'd make is that the market isnt quite there yet to drive the demand for a "living room pc". When the user can buy movies as easily as they can buy music from the internet, and build up a reasonable collection, then the easiest media organizer is going to wipe up. Perhaps America is close to that stage with the itunes and amazon movie stores, but everywhere else is still very far from that point. And streaming services, if they supplant the demand for downloads and "owning" your movies, could change everything too.
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Media Freak

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NO NO NO.
1- I'm still waiting for MC to be able to pull movie data info for my DVD's, a feature that most other software in MC's league have by default.
2- Better Track Info views.
3- Theater view skins still sucks in MC
4- From 11 to 12 to 13, MC still crashes too often
And that's just a small hand of issues that need resolution.

MediaCenter the software is the foundation, if it's not rock solid then I don't see how we can fit a hardware in the mix.
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JimH

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Just to record a snapshot, the "Yes" and "Maybe" answers total 58% now.  It started in the low 60's when the poll was on the beta forum.

Thanks for all the feedback.
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Magic_Randy

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Any update? The more I study the options, the better this option looks.
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benn600

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I've got a lot of HTPCs around the house and would definitely appreciate a smaller, quieter box in several locations.  Even the quietest of them I can still hear and it still annoys me.  I would like truly silent if possible.  And of course what I've got now is setup and working--all are decent computers which can definitely play DVD quality content without trouble.
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runemail

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Voted maybe.
Have built my own Htpcs for the last 5 years, pretty happy with my current g45/c2d e8400 combo. Not a big fan of recording tv, or tv in general. Control my Htpc with a mouse, and type on a keyboard(Apple Wireless (small and good looking)). Big fan of coach surfing ;)
I basically run only 3 apps on my htpc: MC13, firefox and rdp. Sometimes i run spotify, but so far I like MC with the last.fm dj plugin better.

What I would like:

Small case that looks good, should fit in with existing av equipment, slim (1u?), wall mountable, no display or bright leds. Just on/off switch and a coule of USB connections in the front.(More "Apple" and less "Dell" than the unit pictured in the first post)
Base config could be a small itx motheboard with a dualcore (intel) cpu. Perhaps Intel DG45FC with a e7200 or maybe an nvida ion with some kind of dualcore atom will be enough?
External powerbrick, 2,5" hardrive, bluetooth and 802.11n.
I personally only need hdmi, 4+ USB, gigabit ethernet and at least one eSata in the back, but some analouge out for a/v would be nice as well.
Optional extras: Hot swapable 3,5" drive, blue ray drive and tuners/cable card(s).

mojave

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Have you looked at the Popcorn Hour products? They are similar to what you are suggesting for MC. I have heard that they are great for most audio and video media, but that the interface isn't the greatest. If MC could provide the interface for one of these devices, or make something similar, I would either buy it or recommend it to anyone that doesn't really need the expense of an HTPC.
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runemail

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Have you looked at the Popcorn Hour products? They are similar to what you are suggesting for MC. I have heard that they are great for most audio and video media, but that the interface isn't the greatest. If MC could provide the interface for one of these devices, or make something similar, I would either buy it or recommend it to anyone that doesn't really need the expense of an HTPC.

I know about them, pretty basic interface. Buggy software, slow. Not kind of user experince I would like to have every day. Expensive for what they do, imho. They may improve over the next generations, but it will never be a HTPC. Can't live without my browser...

ubernode54

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I have many friends who have families who would love something like this. The only thing I think it might lack would be a PVR feature. That would round it right out.

Oh, and I would recommend an embedded version of Windows if that's the route you go. An embedded Linux would be even better.

Thoughts of running these with the Atom processor? Should be able to do everything just fine. Seen that video of one playing Crysis?!?
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benn600

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I guess one big problem with this system is that it takes some infrastructure to be built up by the user.  From a usable-speed network to a fair amount of disk space to know how for building a large library of media.  Once the work is done, it's great to sit back.  The key is for people to see a glimpse at how amazing it is and then take the project to heart.  Some people only rip a few pieces of content but they really need to rip everything.  This just demonstrates tech savy vs lesser tech savy and, of course, the less tech savy are the ones who would buy the boxes and love them but not be able to construct a nice library.

Exactly why iTunes succeeds so well.  It's start to finish easy.  And the tech savy realize the drawbacks to their system--locked in, low quality, annoying problems, limited customization.
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BartMan01

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My requirments for an HTPC/Media Extender:

Has to be so simple my wife can use it when I am out of town.  Only interface device for normal use should be IR commands from a universal remote.
Must support DVD's as VOB/ISO.  The wife likes to jump around and watch her favorite parts so having the menu and chapters are a must if I ever create a personal digital library of the DVD's I own.
Must support all of the non-DRMed content that I have or am likely to use digitally (APE, MP3, M2TS, MKV, M4A, WMV, AVI, etc.) and be able to play back 1080p HD content smoothly.  Must be able to 'grow with the times' as new codecs and containers come out.
1080p, 720p, and 1080i (for my RP CRT) support.

Integrated Netflix support (like the 360) would be nice.
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MrHaugen

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I hate Infrared signals. RF and bluetooth beats it, but Wifi is the way to go imo. Just wish there was a bit more wifi remotes out there that don't cost a fortune.
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newsposter

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Are you taking about a MC 'appliance'??
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MrHaugen

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I sure am. You don't think a remote control should be part of a good HTPC appliance?
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