Topic: MCE Remote Mapping Issues & Suggestions (Read 8401 times)

jmone · « **on:** February 24, 2009, 03:13:48 am »

I thought I would consolidate a few different threads on the new MCE Remote Control mappings as I "think" (but happy to be proved wrong) that there are some mapping improvements that can be made.

Just to make sure we are on the same page, the pic below is the typical MCE remote and the sugestions I've made are in accordance with the MS at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb417079.aspx (amoung others) and in particular:

* "Replay" (<|) should be "Previous Track" (APPCOMMAND_MEDIA_PREVIOUSTRACK / CTRL+B)
* "Skip" (|>) should be "Next Track" (APPCOMMAND_MEDIA_NEXTTRACK / CTRL+F)

I think the MCE support improvment is terrific after playing with the current mapping I'd suggest the following changes in red:

Green Button: This toggles between Theater View and a Blank screen - it may be also good to toggle Theater View --> Blank Screen --> Shutdown Options
Live TV: Takes you to the last played TV Station
Recorded TV: Takes you to the "Television" but should go to the "My Recordings" sub view
Guide: Toggles between "Television" --> Std View --> Blank Screen but should go to the EPG Section (eg the All Programs subsection of Television)
DVD Menu: Does nothing in TheaterView but should go to "DVD/CD" section. When playing a DVD it takes you to the DVD Menu as you would expect
My TV: Takes you to the Television section
My Videos: Takes you to the Videos section
My Pictures: Takes you to the Images section
My Radio: Commences the MC "Radio" playback function, nice!
My Music: Takes you to the Audio section
Back: Takes you back on level
i: Takes you to Playing Now
Ch/PG+: Advances one TV Station / One Music Track etc
Ch/PG-: Goes back one TV Station / One Music Track etc
>>(FWD): Advances a Music Track by 30sec - I think this should just be like a constant FFW not 30sec Skip Forward
<<(REW): Skips a Music Track by 10sec - I think this should just be like a constant REW not 10 sec Skip Back
>|(Skip): Same as >> but it should be the same as Ch+ in that it should skip forward to the next track not advance the track by 30sec
|<(Replay): Same as << but it should be the same as Ch- in that it should skip back to the start of the track/prev track not skip back the track by 10sec
Record Button: No longer starts recording while viewing a TV Program (seperate post on this one at http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=50708.msg346567#msg346567 )
Navigation Buttons (Up/Down/Left/Right/OK): As you would expect
Play/Pause/Stop Bottons: As expected through the Play & Pause buttons both toggle Play and Pause
Colour Bottons: Do nil

Thanks
Nathan

raym · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2009, 04:18:02 am »

I was just about to post about all this.

I have the same remote and none of the seek commands work as I would expect anymore * sigh *

I think native MS remote support for seeking / jumping tracks and channel changes used to work fine the way it was!!! Therefore, I agree with Nathan:

>| should take you to the next file (CTRL+N)
<| should take you to the start of the file. Press quickly again and it should go to the previous file (CTRL+L)
>> should be dvd-style ff (CTRL+RIGHT ARROW) with OSD timings remaining ONSCREEN for the duration of the seek
<< should be dvd-style rew (CTRL+LEFT ARROW) with OSD timings remaining ONSCREEN for the duration of the seek

Then,

Ch/PG+ should advance one TV Station / one music track
Ch/PG- should be the opposite

__________________

The "i" or "info" key takes you to Playing Now which is terrific but could <- (back/backspace) take you back to where you were please rather than to the main menu.

I like the jump commands with the RIGHT / LEFT arrows in Display View.

raym · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2009, 05:03:26 am »

Oh, and one more thing ... SHIFT + F11 (Theater/display view toggle) is BROKEN!!!

ThoBar · « **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2009, 05:06:00 am »

I'd be comfortable with the behaviour suggested.

Matt · « **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2009, 07:59:26 am »

Quote from: raym on February 24, 2009, 05:03:26 am

Oh, and one more thing ... SHIFT + F11 (Theater/display view toggle) is BROKEN!!!

As noted by the build history, it has been changed. It's working well here -- I really like it rolling through three modes, and skipping a blank screen when stopped.

Matt · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2009, 10:37:21 am »

First, thanks for the great post. I wanted to comment on a few specifics:

Quote from: jmone on February 24, 2009, 03:13:48 am

>>(FWD): Advances a Music Track by 30sec - I think this should just be like a constant FFW not 30sec Skip Forward
<<(REW): Skips a Music Track by 10sec - I think this should just be like a constant REW not 10 sec Skip Back

We like skips more than fast forward / rewind.

Quote

>|(Skip): Same as >> but it should be the same as Ch+ in that it should skip forward to the next track not advance the track by 30sec
|<(Replay): Same as << but it should be the same as Ch- in that it should skip back to the start of the track/prev track not skip back the track by 10sec

We're intentionally breaking from the standard here. To us, it makes more sense for transport controls to be around the play button and for channel up / channel down to switch tracks.

We may make the two buttons seek different amounts (or one skip and one rewind / fast forward).

Now that arrows do seeking nicely, this is all sort of redundant.

jmone · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2009, 02:32:41 pm »

Thanks - just had a quick play with the new 127 mapping. Couple of comments from Matt's post:

Quote from: Matt on February 24, 2009, 10:37:21 am

First, thanks for the great post. I wanted to comment on a few specifics:

We like skips more than fast forward / rewind.

I don't really mind - it is more what we have been used to / expected.

Quote

We're intentionally breaking from the standard here. To us, it makes more sense for transport controls to be around the play button and for channel up / channel down to switch tracks.

We may make the two buttons seek different amounts (or one skip and one rewind / fast forward).

This one I do mind. While I'm sure we will get used to it, I'm not keen on at all. It is not intuitive (just ask the familly) for either control of music tracks or changing Chapters in DVD's etc. The whole world sticks to the traditional use of Skip and Replay to "Next Track" / "Previous Track" behavior that we had previously and I don't see that this is an enhancing departure from the norm. (I don't mind that the Channel up/ down button also performs this function in these views)

Quote

Now that arrows do seeking nicely, this is all sort of redundant.

I agree - you have both the >> / << and now the Arrows for Seeking so can we please go back to the traditional use of Skip and Replay = "Next Track" / "Previous Track" behavior.

Thanks
Nathan

JimH · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2009, 02:52:23 pm »

I agree that next and last track should work as expected. The problem we had was that they also switched channels in TV mode. We'll try to find another way to fix that.

jmone · « **Reply #8 on:** February 24, 2009, 03:06:12 pm »

Quote from: JimH on February 24, 2009, 02:52:23 pm

I agree that next and last track should work as expected. The problem we had was that they also switched channels in TV mode. We'll try to find another way to fix that.

Thanks Jim - I never noticed what they did in TV model (I guess I never expected them to do anything so did not press them....)

raym · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2009, 03:21:50 pm »

Lots of ways to skip, no more ways to ff/rew? Why limit the great possibilities we had before?

rpalmer68 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2009, 03:56:04 pm »

Quote from: JimH on February 24, 2009, 02:52:23 pm

I agree that next and last track should work as expected. The problem we had was that they also switched channels in TV mode. We'll try to find another way to fix that.

And this is what is causing me some problems...

If I'm watching a recording the |< button takes me back to the beginning of the file, but if I'm watching Live TV and want to get back to the beginning of the recording I (and the rest of the family too!) press |< expectig the same result but instead I change channels. ARGHH

To me Pg Up/Down should change channels and the transport buttons should act on the currently playing track/file/Channel.

Just my thoughts...

Richard

JimH · « **Reply #11 on:** February 24, 2009, 04:19:42 pm »

In the next build, the next and last track will work as before, except we'll disable their channel switching in TV mode.

For navigation, we suggest trying the arrow key pad. This is the one with an OK in the center and four arrows around it (north, south, east and west). The east button will step forward through the track in increments (currently 30 seconds, but this may change). The west button will step backward in 10 second increments (may change). In a future build, we expect these two buttons to act in a logarithmic fashion -- the longer you hold the button down, the faster the seek will go.

You can also use the standard seek buttons -- << and >> -- near the top of the remote. I personally find them too similar to the next and last track buttons (at least in the dark).

JimH · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2009, 04:25:50 pm »

Quote from: raym on February 24, 2009, 03:21:50 pm

Lots of ways to skip, no more ways to ff/rew? Why limit the great possibilities we had before?

ff and rew are there. They haven't been removed. See my previous post.

gappie · « **Reply #13 on:** February 24, 2009, 04:29:36 pm »

Quote from: JimH on February 24, 2009, 04:19:42 pm

For navigation, we suggest trying the arrow key pad. This is the one with an OK in the center and four arrows around it (north, south, east and west). The east button will step forward through the track in increments (currently 30 seconds, but this may change). The west button will step backward in 10 second increments (may change). In a future build, we expect these two buttons to act in a logarithmic fashion -- the longer you hold the button down, the faster the seek will go.

i like this idea.. dont have an mce remote. but it has something like that, with ok and four arrows, and before it could jump to a next movie when pushing the east, steppenig further seeems like a nice alternative. and maybe it would feel just as natural as the new east function when playing back images...

really great stuff..

thanks

gab

raym · « **Reply #14 on:** February 24, 2009, 04:52:07 pm »

Quote from: JimH on February 24, 2009, 04:19:42 pm

You can also use the standard seek buttons -- << and >> -- near the top of the remote. I personally find them too similar to the next and last track buttons (at least in the dark).

Thanks Jim but just to be clear, >> and << will fast forward and rewind respectively (5x, 20x, 100x) as it did before? This is what I'm hoping has been retained.

jmone · « **Reply #15 on:** February 24, 2009, 05:51:42 pm »

Looking good from my point of view in V128, couple of things:

1) When watching TV can the "Menu" button bring up the OSD Menu like "Down Arrow" does
2) REC button does nothing when in the TV Channels View
3) Thanks for the fix on Previous / Next
4) I'll let raym argue the case on the FFW/RWD as it is the same as before though the comments about a logorithmic speed up may suit all

Thanks
Nathan

JimH · « **Reply #16 on:** February 24, 2009, 06:11:01 pm »

Nathan,
I meant to say earlier how helpful and informative your first post was. Thanks!

Jim

raym · « **Reply #17 on:** February 24, 2009, 06:18:41 pm »

Quote from: jmone on February 24, 2009, 05:51:42 pm

I'll let raym argue the case on the FFW/RWD as it is the same as before

Oh, I will!!

Please don't discount the usefulness of this. Like I said, there's arrows, and next/prev track buttons available for jump seeks. The >> and << buttons should provide dvd-style seeks (5x, 20x, 100x) like they used to. Otherwise, I'm gonna have to remap all this stuff which is a drag considering it all used to work natively before :-(

JimH · « **Reply #18 on:** February 24, 2009, 06:22:28 pm »

Would this not work for you?

Quote from: JimH on February 24, 2009, 04:19:42 pm

For navigation, we suggest trying the arrow key pad. This is the one with an OK in the center and four arrows around it (north, south, east and west). The east button will step forward through the track in increments (currently 30 seconds, but this may change). The west button will step backward in 10 second increments (may change). In a future build, we expect these two buttons to act in a logarithmic fashion -- the longer you hold the button down, the faster the seek will go.

jmone · « **Reply #19 on:** February 24, 2009, 06:23:14 pm »

Quote from: JimH on February 24, 2009, 06:11:01 pm

Nathan,
I meant to say earlier how helpful and informative your first post was. Thanks!

Jim

Your welcome - it has been fun development from me since the first post on this almost 2 years ago http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=40256.0

I have to say as a dedicated HTPC user, MC13 really developed well in DVB support and HTPC in general.....and now Blu-ray & UPNP/DLNA video (transcoding) support here we come!

jmone · « **Reply #20 on:** February 24, 2009, 08:35:02 pm »

A real minor one. In T'View when you select Play from the OSD menu on an item a fancy "Play" graphic shoots out at you from the screen letting you know that the command is received and off it goes (very nice). When you press the "Play" button you get nothing, could it please be the same as selecting Play as on some play items there are many seconds before play starts (eg mounting an ISO) and without the Visual Confirmation you don't know if you have pressed the button or not.
Thanks
Nathan

raym · « **Reply #21 on:** February 25, 2009, 04:06:37 am »

Quote from: JimH on February 24, 2009, 06:22:28 pm

Would this not work for you?

IMO Jump seeks really don't work well at all for DVDs. Try it. Also, I don't really see the point of using << >> for the same function already provided by the right/left arrows.

I'm happy to see where this all goes tho and I appreciate the effort going into theater view generally. If it doesn't work for me then thank goodness for Intelliremote :-)

JimH · « **Reply #22 on:** February 25, 2009, 06:36:01 pm »

<< and >> will be back to their original state in the next build.

raym · « **Reply #23 on:** February 26, 2009, 12:37:17 am »

Quote from: JimH on February 25, 2009, 06:36:01 pm

<< and >> will be back to their original state in the next build.

Thanks for this jim.

stricko · « **Reply #24 on:** February 26, 2009, 04:05:47 am »

One issue that I cannot see mentioned, is the use of the Ch/PG +/- buttons. In Theater View especially, with long lists and page of thumnails, these buttons should page up and down. It's a big WAF issue, I've switched from MCE to MC, but the inability to page up and down is a major niggle, and when it skips to the next audio track, people get very confused. I've raised this before, and the guys have said they'll think about it, but I thought it should be added if we trying to round up known concerns.

JimH · « **Reply #25 on:** February 26, 2009, 12:22:00 pm »

Build 129 is now available. It has more changes for the MCE remotes.

raym · « **Reply #26 on:** February 26, 2009, 04:27:46 pm »

Quote from: stricko on February 26, 2009, 04:05:47 am

One issue that I cannot see mentioned, is the use of the Ch/PG +/- buttons. In Theater View especially, with long lists and page of thumnails, these buttons should page up and down. It's a big WAF issue, I've switched from MCE to MC, but the inability to page up and down is a major niggle, and when it skips to the next audio track, people get very confused. I've raised this before, and the guys have said they'll think about it, but I thought it should be added if we trying to round up known concerns.

Actually yes, this is still a problem. I'd prefer when in Theater view lists, the Ch/PG +/- do Page up/down only. For now, I've had to use my remote mapping software to get around this issue.

JimH · « **Reply #27 on:** March 03, 2009, 04:16:42 pm »

Quote from: stricko on February 26, 2009, 04:05:47 am

One issue that I cannot see mentioned, is the use of the Ch/PG +/- buttons. In Theater View especially, with long lists and page of thumnails, these buttons should page up and down. It's a big WAF issue, I've switched from MCE to MC, but the inability to page up and down is a major niggle, and when it skips to the next audio track, people get very confused. I've raised this before, and the guys have said they'll think about it, but I thought it should be added if we trying to round up known concerns.

This should be improved in build 132, now available at the top of this board.

stricko · « **Reply #28 on:** March 04, 2009, 12:37:09 am »

Yep, page up/down is definitely working in Theatre View lists at r132. Many thanks guys. Brilliant job as always.

Griff · « **Reply #29 on:** March 04, 2009, 10:10:14 am »

Quote from: raym on February 24, 2009, 04:18:02 am

The "i" or "info" key takes you to Playing Now which is terrific but could <- (back/backspace) take you back to where you were please rather than to the main menu.

Any more thoughts on this ?

I agree with raym, that "BACK" should behave just like it does from within Theater View when you use the roller bar to goto Playing Now.

It should take you back to the point you jumped from and not to the Main Menu.

Thanks

jmone · « **Reply #30 on:** March 09, 2009, 12:40:04 am »

The "Radio" buttons starts MC's Radio feature which is great BUT if you have a track playing when you press "Radio" this track is not used as the seed track. Instead it stops playback and starts a new Radio sequence. Can this be changed so the if there is a currently playing track this is used as the seed for Radio.
Thanks
Nathan

llafriel · « **Reply #31 on:** April 03, 2009, 03:54:49 am »

I just bought the mce remote and it is working very good. Excellent reception on this thing. I have one niggle though. My htpc is connected directly to 2 Aleph5 monoblocks and with this setup the volume change with the remote is too large. It changes 5% for each press but I need it to be around 2-3%. Is this possible to change?

JimH · « **Reply #32 on:** April 03, 2009, 07:39:27 am »

Quote from: llafriel on April 03, 2009, 03:54:49 am

I just bought the mce remote and it is working very good. Excellent reception on this thing. I have one niggle though. My htpc is connected directly to 2 Aleph5 monoblocks and with this setup the volume change with the remote is too large. It changes 5% for each press but I need it to be around 2-3%. Is this possible to change?

I don't know of any way to do that. I think it's out of our control. I would guess that keyboard volume buttons would do the same.

ThoBar · « **Reply #33 on:** April 04, 2009, 01:12:44 pm »

Quote from: llafriel on April 03, 2009, 03:54:49 am

I just bought the mce remote and it is working very good. Excellent reception on this thing. I have one niggle though. My htpc is connected directly to 2 Aleph5 monoblocks and with this setup the volume change with the remote is too large. It changes 5% for each press but I need it to be around 2-3%. Is this possible to change?

I'd recommend using the learning feature of the remote to program the volume buttons to control a pre-amp. It's what I do, and works very well. Personally, I dont trust a PC volume control to control a 200W or more amplifier set.

llafriel · « **Reply #34 on:** April 04, 2009, 04:20:43 pm »

Using the soundcard as preamp works very well too, I've been doing that for years now. Although my amps are only ~70W per channel (pure class A though), I've had no problems.
I've found some alternative drivers for the remote wich allows the use of Girder. This will hopefully solve my problem.

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Author Topic: MCE Remote Mapping Issues & Suggestions (Read 8401 times)