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[andy o]

Hi, I am trying out this software right now. I have read that the WASAPI option could change from 2 ch to 5.1 channels automatically depending on the source. I can't find this option anywhere. After some tweaking I did get it to work with my ATI 4550 HDMI, but this option is nowhere to be found.

jmone, if you are reading this, please clarify! The only thing that does it for me is Reclock, and they didn't implement WASAPI until after you started that thread in the slysoft forum (thanks for that, by the way), where you also mention you were already having this auto switching behavior, I assume with JRiver MC. Someone else said they could do it with foobar2000 and its WASAPI plugin, but foobar doesn't do it either.

Thing is, auto switching is not WASAPI-bound. You can apply auto channel switching with Reclock without using WASAPI.

Another thing, with 5.1 flac content in MC13, in a 7.1 system, I'm having the sides go into the backs. I think this is a bug. Is MC13 compatible with 7.1 channels anyway?

thanks.

[JimH]

Welcome to Interact.  You just need to set it to 5.1 for your sound card settings in Windows.  Start at Control Panel.

[andy o]

Welcome to Interact.  You just need to set it to 5.1 for your sound card settings in Windows.  Start at Control Panel.

Thanks,

I understand that. I was hoping to be able to run a 7.1 system without having to change to 5.1 every time I run a program that maps sides to rears (there are some that do, some others don't). I would think this as a bug, but since some other programs do that too, I guess a program would have to be designed for 7.1 audio to be able to output to the side speakers instead of the rears? I'm assuming MC13 is not 7.1-capable?

Which brings me to what I was asking to Jmone (or anyone else who knows). He said that MC13 with WASAPI was switching his channels automatically according to the source (basically what you asked me to do manually in your reply). That's what I'm wondering if it's possible.

Thanks again, seems like a good community and good software.

[mrcorbo]

Thanks again, seems like a good community and good software.

It is both of those.

Make sure under "output mode settings" you have "open device for exclusive access" checked.  While you're in there you may also need to set the buffer to a fairly low value to prevent playback errors in exclusive mode.  I have mine set to .42 seconds.

To clarify:  It isn't enough to use WASAPI to get the output matching behavior, your audio device has to be set to exclusive mode, as well. 

[andy o]

Actually, I'm not having trouble using WASAPI (after some tweaking). It is using exclusive mode. But just like foobar2000, it doesn't change the channels in Vista automatically. Reclock does it (with directshow-based players), but it's not a WASAPI thing. Exclusive mode doesn't mean that the channels necessarily will be properly configured. I still get the source's sample rate (88.2kHz) and it does change according to the source of course.

I'm also having trouble with the side surrounds going to the rears. Auto channel changing should fix that as well. I guess not too many people are using 7.1 systems yet.

[jmone]

Hi Andy - for me I was really after the removal of the "empty channel" problem when you set Windows to 5.1 (or 7.1) and then play a 2.0ch source, and I'm happy to say it now works (almost) perfectly.  As you have said this can be done by using either a WASAPI Audio Renderer or with Reclock we now have that option available with with a range of Direct Show Audio Renderers (eg Direct Sound as well as WASAPI).  The implemenation inside MC13 (Options --> Playback --> Audio --> Output Mode --> WASAPI) works with non-directshow audio (eg CD / CD Rips) and I use Reclock for all my directshow stuff so I'm covered for all Audio output.  If you are using either MC's or Reclock's WASAPI implementation then the output over HDMI will automatically match the number of channels in the source material, you don't have to do or configure anything (though as mrcorbo says some tweaking may help other issues).  If you are using Direct Sound in Reclock you have to use the check box to get the same effect.

While my system is a 7.1, I've only 5.1 speakers attached but I did see a mapping issue similar to what you are taking about when testing Reclock.  In one of the earlier reclock versions it was defaulting ATI HDMI cards to 7.1 output when not playing content (while the Windows Audio Properties was still reporting 5.1) and in this condition my surrounds where being mapped to my non-existent rears.  James from Slysoft fixed this issue so that it will default back to what is set in the Windows Audio Properties so it is now all fine on my 5.1 system BUT as I don't have a 7.1 speaker setup it's kink of hard for me to tell if the mapping is correct in a 7.1 setup.  It seems odd that you are having a mapping issue as WASAPI should change your output settings to 5.1 to match your 5.1 FLAC content then back to a default 7.1 when it has finished playing.  If it is not changing to 5.1 then you may not be using WASAPI(exclusive).

Andy - is the mapping problem only when using MC's WASAPI implementation or with Reclocks as well?

Has anone else with a 7.1 setup playing 5.1 content please check to see if the surrounds are being mapped to the rears by mistake when using WASAPI (exclusive) in MC13? 

Thanks
Nathan

[andy o]

Thanks for the clarification. I take it then if I play CDs on MC13, the channels will be changed to 2.0 when I'm using WASAPI exclusive. You say you use Reclock for your directshow stuff. Does that mean you're using another player for those, or is there a way to use Reclock with MC13?

It seems odd as WASAPI(exclusive) should change your output settings to 5.1 to match your 5.1 FLAC content then back to a default 7.1 when it has finished playing.  If it is not changing to 5.1 then you may not be using WASAPI(exclusive).

Actually, I don't think WASAPI exclusive necessarily changes number of channels automatically. In fact, I've never seen it with the WASAPI-exclusive programs I've used (foobar2000, XMPlay, Reclock, MC13). Reclock of course does it, but it's a separate option from WASAPI-exclusive. You can set one and not the other.

is the mapping problem only when using MC's WASAPI implementation or with Reclocks as well?

It's when using MC13, actually, WASAPI or not. Reclock, if you don't tick the "set matching speaker configuration" setting, will just pass through the mapping, so it will depend on the program. Actually some other programs behave like this. MPC-HC I think does, but you can use the audio switcher to fix that automatically. An audio switcher like that (which other popular freebies like AC3filter also have), would be pretty great for a program like MC13.

[jmone]

Hi Andy,

I suspect you are not using WASAPI, as it WILL automatically change the channel configuration to match the number of channels in your media without you having to configure it, make sure that:
1) In MC13: set Options --> Playback --> Audio --> Output Mode to WASAPI.  This will cover you for Audio playback of CDs and files like WMA, MP3, WAV, FLAC, DTS etc including auto config between 2.0 and 5.1 material etc.  As per one of the posts in this thread http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=49536.0 try some of the sample files at http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

If there are any bugs with this then post it here

2) In Reclock: Select WASAPI as your renderer on the first tab in the drop down boxes (and/or check the channel mapping box if you want to use DirectSound etc instead), either way you will get auto config between 2.0 and 5.1 material etc when reclock is being used by any  Program.  On the last tab, set reclock to be loaded for MC13 and/or in MC13 set the prefered renderer as reclock in Options --> Playback --> DirectShow Playback Settings -->  Audio Renderer --> Reclock (personnally I just config relock to load with MC13).  This will then cover you for any Audio extracted by DirectShow filters (eg MPG, VOB, DVD, etc etc) when being played from within MC13.

If there are any bugs with this then post on the Reclock forum.

Let us know how you go.

Thanks
Nathan

[andy o]

That is exactly what I'm doing. In fact, some of those programs (Reclock, foobar2000) don't even include WASAPI shared. My AVR by the way, does tell the correct sampling rate of the content. I have actually tried with a CD in MC13 right now and it doesn't work either. What audio card and drivers are you using? Might be a feature of your drivers. In Reclock, when you have WASAPI exclusive enabled, and you untick the "set matching speaker configuration...", does it behave the same as if you had it ticked (channels switch automatically)? Because to me they are two separate options, and they work independently of each other.

What does work is video in MC13, because for that you can call Reclock. If I could use Reclock for audio (we can choose audio renderer only for video files as you know) then it would solve this problem.

thanks.

[jmone]

That is exactly what I'm doing. In fact, some of those programs (Reclock, foobar2000) don't even include WASAPI shared. My AVR by the way, does tell the correct sampling rate of the content. I have actually tried with a CD in MC13 right now and it doesn't work either.

Odd - it should just work.  It still makes me think you are not getting WASAPI output.  Unless anyone else has other feedback all you have to do is MC13: set Options --> Playback --> Audio --> Output Mode to WASAPI

What audio card and drivers are you using? Might be a feature of your drivers.

Vista 32-Bit SP1, ATI HD4550, HDMI to Receiver, Realtek ATI HDMI Drivers (I see they have just relased a new one in the last couple of days that I have not tested http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3 ), latest version of MC

In Reclock, when you have WASAPI exclusive enabled, and you untick the "set matching speaker configuration...", does it behave the same as if you had it ticked (channels switch automatically)? Because to me they are two separate options, and they work independently of each other.

WASAPI in reclock will give you correct channel configuration regardless of if you tick the channels switch or not but you might as well leave it ticked as it will ALSO give you this feature if you have another Audio Renderer selected anyway (eg DirectSound).

What does work is video in MC13, because for that you can call Reclock. If I could use Reclock for audio (we can choose audio renderer only for video files as you know) then it would solve this problem.

It should not matter as both progs will support WASAPI and hence you get the correct channel config.  What renderer(s) have you selected in Reclock? WASAPI or the [Default]?

[andy o]

Hi there again

Well I'm baffled. Are you using the 2.13 Realtek drivers, or something older? I have had this with 2.13 and 2.18 (I'm using the 4550 as well). I am sure it's WASAPI. The sampling rates get detected, and all the other sounds are disabled.

[jmone]

Mmmm - so you have

- HD4550 with HDMI from your HTPC to an AV Reciever
- Vista
- Realtek ATI HDMI Drivers
- You have selected WASAPI as your prefered Audio Renderer in MC13

The only other thing you may want to check is some threads reporting that you only get 2.0 channels with some specific AV Receivers over at AVS Forum - I've a Yami and it does not have the issue but I understand it is fixed in Cat 9.1/9.2

You may want to enable logging, quit MC13, start MC13, play a track/CD, then post the log file.

Thanks
Nathan

[mrcorbo]

@andy o

Do you have access to a DTS-encoded .wav file?  If not the page that jmone linked to earlier has a 30MB one.

http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

Note that a username and password are now required to download these files.  They are listed on the page, though.

If you play this back in MC in WASAPI mode, do you get music or just noise?  (turn your speakers down just in case).

[jmone]

I also take it you have in your "Realtek HDMI Output Properties" you have:
- Disable all sound effects
- Allow application to take exclusive control of this device enabled
- Give exclusive mode application priority enabled
- Sample Rate - all options checked and tested

And on it's configuration have it set to 7.1 and that the test works.

[andy o]

Mmmm - so you have

- HD4550 with HDMI from your HTPC to an AV Reciever
- Vista
- Realtek ATI HDMI Drivers
- You have selected WASAPI as your prefered Audio Renderer in MC13

The only other thing you may want to check is some threads reporting that you only get 2.0 channels with some specific AV Receivers over at AVS Forum - I've a Yami and it does not have the issue but I understand it is fixed in Cat 9.1/9.2

You may want to enable logging, quit MC13, start MC13, play a track/CD, then post the log file.

Thanks
Nathan

That above is my configuration indeed. Using the Pioneer VSX-01TXH in 7.1 (but if I set Vista to 5.1 or stereo, it still doesn't change # of channels automatically in WASAPI exclusive.

The video drivers don't have much to do with the audio drivers. I think I saw someone mention at AVS that the 9.x drivers this or that, but actually the HDMI audio drivers last time I checked weren't included with the video ones. That's probably why people were getting 2 channel only (using generic Microsoft drivers instead, but nothing to do with the Catalyst drivers).

But in any case, I am using Catalyst 8.12 hotfix, and the Realtek 2.18 drivers. Everything else through HDMI is working perfectly actually. I don't have a Realtek analog card, so I haven't installed the other Realtek packages. Have you? How do you manage your HDMI audio settings? Through the Vista control panel, or the Realtek one?

I also take it you have in your "Realtek HDMI Output Properties" you have:
- Disable all sound effects
- Allow application to take exclusive control of this device enabled
- Give exclusive mode application priority enabled
- Sample Rate - all options checked and tested

And on it's configuration have it set to 7.1 and that the test works.

Yep the works. Besides this little hiccup, everything's working great. In fact, this ATI solved some complaints I had with Nvidia HDMI.

I might be blind, but there's no attachment option? Should I just copy/paste the log here?

[andy o]

@andy o

Do you have access to a DTS-encoded .wav file?  If not the page that jmone linked to earlier has a 30MB one.

http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

Note that a username and password are now required to download these files.  They are listed on the page, though.

If you play this back in MC in WASAPI mode, do you get music or just noise?  (turn your speakers down just in case).

I suspect a trick question  . Anyway, I only get noise. So I take it automatic channel switching is working for you as well? Dang.

[jmone]

I might be blind, but there's no attachment option? Should I just copy/paste the log here?

Do you have an "Additional Options" in your "post reply" screen (down on the left hand side)?

How do you manage your HDMI audio settings? Through the Vista control panel, or the Realtek one?

I only bother to install the Realtek ATI HDMI driver (not the other Realtek HD Driver) and do the config by just right clicking on the Speaker Icon in the system tray --> playback devices.  It should say "Realtek HDMI Audio / ATI HDMI Audio" and you can use the Config & Properties buttons to config.  I did also have the Realtek HD Driver loaded at one stage but it makes no difference which one you use to configure the device.

The video drivers don't have much to do with the audio drivers. I think I saw someone mention at AVS that the 9.x drivers this or that, but actually the HDMI audio drivers last time I checked weren't included with the video ones. That's probably why people were getting 2 channel only (using generic Microsoft drivers instead, but nothing to do with the Catalyst drivers).

Your right in that it has nothing to do with the Audio component directly but the issue is that the EDID data being send from some AV Receivers were being interpreted by the other Cat versions was reporting that the AV Receiver only supported 2.0 channels (and was a DVI device NOT and HDMI device in the Cat Control Center) so you did not get 5.1 or 7.1 options in the Audio system tray.  It does not sound like this is your problem

Given you are getting static I recon MC is not using WASAPI.  Hopfully you have the option of posting the log....

[andy o]

Given you are getting static I recon MC is not using WASAPI.  Hopfully you have the option of posting the log....

I would have thought this was a decoder thing. I wonder then how come all the other WASAPI exclusive features/side effects are working (sample rate switching, disabling other sounds/volume control).

I do get additional options, but there's only four checkboxes: Notify me of replies, Return to this topic, Don't use smileys, and Lock this topic.

By the way, you're using the 2.13 Realtek driver, or something earlier?

thanks for the help.

[jmone]

By the way, you're using the 2.13 Realtek driver, or something earlier

?

Was on 2.13 and just upgraded to 2.18 - all just works. 

I'd be useless on interpreting the log file anyway but if a MC person is reading this thread they will ask you to e-mail it to them and it will thow some more light on what is happening.

[JimH]

You could e-mail it to matt at jriver.

jmone,
Thanks very much for helping out.  MrCorbo, too.  It's nice to watch.

Jim

[andy o]

?

Was on 2.13 and just upgraded to 2.18 - all just works. 

I'd be useless on interpreting the log file anyway but if a MC person is reading this thread they will ask you to e-mail it to them and it will thow some more light on what is happening.

You know, I think it might be something regarding silent stream. Finally could test my Nvidia HDMI (had to find a 7.1 file, since it doesn't seem to accept 5.1 files WASAPI style). The Nvidia doesn't keep continuous audio, so every time a sound is made (in Windows, for instance), the HDMI has to activate, and it takes a second to do so, so some short Windows sounds won't make it through. This is an annoyance, but minor. Does your system behave like this? And with the Nvidia, the channel switching from 7.1 to stereo and back does work in WASAPI exclusive. What's weird is that we're using the same drivers/card. It could be a HDMI thing with your receiver/card combo. I think I remember some having silent stream "issues" with Yamahas?

By the way, "immediate mode" in the drivers doesn't help either way. One favor though, you think you could email me your registry key for the ATI HDMI device? Just in case you don't know how, go into Device Manager, double click your ATI HDMI device, and on details, look for the "driver key" property. If I'm not mistaken, it should be

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{4D36E96C-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\000x

Go there, right-click on "000x" and export. I'll PM you my email address.

Thanks again.

[mrcorbo]

I suspect a trick question  . Anyway, I only get noise. So I take it automatic channel switching is working for you as well? Dang.

Very very odd.  Yes I get the automatic channel switching and when I play back a DTS .wav using exclusive mode my receiver displays DTS and decodes it to surround sound :/.  Using HD 4870 w/ 2.18 divers BTW.

[andy o]

Very very odd.  Yes I get the automatic channel switching and when I play back a DTS .wav using exclusive mode my receiver displays DTS and decodes it to surround sound :/.  Using HD 4870 w/ 2.18 divers BTW.

Now THAT's interesting. Would you mind emailing me your registry key as indicated above, as well. I'd appreciate it a lot. I'll PM you my address.

Thanks for the tip.

What AVR are you using, by the way?

[jmone]

my key is {4d36e96c-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}\0010  (Note: I'm on V18)

Email on its way.  Also I've never had any silent stream issues on the V2700

Thanks
Nathan

[andy o]

Thanks a lot Nathan. No big differences there in the registry.

I found someone else with the same behavior as me, by the way. I'm testing now in a new Vista installation.

[mrcorbo]

Now THAT's interesting. Would you mind emailing me your registry key as indicated above, as well. I'd appreciate it a lot. I'll PM you my address.

Thanks for the tip.

What AVR are you using, by the way?

I e-mailed the .reg file.  I'm using a Denon 3808ci.

The weird thing is that I didn't know about the channel switching behavior until testing foobar's implementation.  So when it happened I was (pleasantly) surprised.  That's why your different result is so weird.  I know I didn't do anything special to get it to work (on 2 different OS installs).  It just did.

[andy o]

Thanks for the file. I got some more info...

You know, I just got the DTS .wav file to work. I had to set manually my Vista output to Stereo, and then the DTS would be bitstreamed. So I think it's a side-effect of my channels not being changed automatically. Presumably, in your system the channels are changed to stereo automatically, so you didn't get the static when using WASAPI-exclusive.

I have now tested with a completely clean install of Vista 32, and still the same trouble! Tried just for the fun of it Catalyst 8.12 hotfix and (after another Vista full restore), 9.1. Nothing changed.

[mrcorbo]

Thanks for the file. I got some more info...

You know, I just got the DTS .wav file to work. I had to set manually my Vista output to Stereo, and then the DTS would be bitstreamed. So I think it's a side-effect of my channels not being changed automatically. Presumably, in your system the channels are changed to stereo automatically, so you didn't get the static when using WASAPI-exclusive.

I have now tested with a completely clean install of Vista 32, and still the same trouble! Tried just for the fun of it Catalyst 8.12 hotfix and (after another Vista full restore), 9.1. Nothing changed.

Well, I can at least suggest a work-around using ReClock.  You can, in fact, bypass MC's audio playback chain completely and use DirectShow instead.  What you need to do is:

1. Go to tools>options
2. Select "File Types" from the left-side list
3. In the list, for each file type you want to play back change the playback method from "Automatic" to JRiver video engine(using DirectShow filters)
4. Select "Playback" from the left-side list
5. Under "Video" select "DirectShow video playback settings"
6. Make sure the audio renderer is set to ReClock.
7. Hit OK (lol I feel so patronizing putting that, but for the sake of being thorough..)

This way you can use the separate ReClock function (that you've said works for you) to automatically change the speaker config and WASAPI will handle changing the bit-depth/samplerate (which you've also said works for you).

After all that effort you deserve some results!

[andy o]

yep, that's a workaround all right. Thanks for the tip, I was wondering how to use the directshow video settings for audio.

I'm gonna have to chalk this one up to the receiver (a reset to default settings/change HDMI ports didn't work) or my whole setup. I noticed you two guys have audio set at 192kHz/24 bit in Windows. At 1920x1200 the Ati driver doesn't let me do higher than 96kHz, and my monitor doesn't work at 1080p, so I'll see if in the future this somehow fixes it.

thanks a lot. I'll resume my testing this prog. Liking all the options so far. I'm a little worried about some of the posts I've read about coexisting with Windows Media Center though. I use that for HDTV and I'd like MC13 to be as less intrusive as possible. I've noticed some weird icon behavior in the tray with VMC icons when MC13 is running, but so far no big deal.

[andy o]

jmone, mrcorbo,

One last thing, which brand/exact model of ATI cards are you using?

Thanks again.

[jmone]

I'm using the Gigabyte Fanless card.

At 1920x1200 the Ati driver doesn't let me do higher than 96kHz, and my monitor doesn't work at 1080p, so I'll see if in the future this somehow fixes it.

Mmmm.  I remember a post that using non-standard TV resolutions stuffed up some receivers EDID info.  Can you try using 720p and see if it works?

[andy o]

Uh-oh. I think we're even using the same card.

I did try 720p, and nothing. Same thing exactly. I even have a HDMI detective I'm playing with, but so far nothing seems to have any effect. Also on Vista 32 SP1, by the way. Have no idea what's going on. I'm gonna pick up another card tomorrow, a Sapphire 4670, since we seem to have the exact same card though, I don't have much hopes for the new one, but I needed a more powerful card anyway.

Thanks, at least I can use reclock now.

[jmone]

Yup, same card & I also use a DVI Detective+

[andy o]

OK, I installed a 4670 (Sapphire fanless). It's still the same, but I'm liking the card better for other things.

Could you try something quick, though? Could you change your resolution to 720p and see if you can still get auto channel switching doing WASAPI?

Thanks.

[jmone]

Sorry Andy - I've not had the chance to try 720p (I'm sure it will work) and I'm now away with work for a few days.  Can you confirm that you get Reclock's WASAPI working fine with the correct channels (and with the match input/output channels unchecked) - if so I'm stumped or it has to be related to MC's WASAPI implementation.

Thanks
Nathan

[andy o]

No worries, thanks anyway. Mine did not work with 720p either, and it's the same with WASAPI in MC13, foobar2000, Reclock and XMPlay (all I've tried), so it's not an MC13 problem.

I was wondering if somehow having another resolution than 1080p or an HDTV standard would change things, but if you can't test it that's fine, not a big deal. I have pretty much narrowed it down to my receiver, or the HDTV resolution thing. Reclock will do for most stuff for now.

Thanks a lot everybody.

[suviking]

I thought I'd chime to say I have same problem Andy has.

MC's WASAPI implementation does not change from 2.0 to 5.1 and vice versa automatically, whereas reclock does.

If I want to play a DTS WAV through MC I must set the sound properties in the control panel to 2.0 and it plays OK, but 5.1 recordings are sent to the pre-amp processor as 2.0.
If I set control panel properties to 5.1, the DTS WAV is played as static but the 5.1 FLACs come through as 5.1.

Sampling frequency however changes automatically with the source.

With reclock (through vmplayer), regardless of control panel settings, the DTS WAV plays and 5.1 flacs come across as 5.1.

I usd MC 13, build 132, I have the same gigabyte fanless 4550 card as andy and Nathan with 8.12 and 1.18 drivers. Pre-amp processor is the Integra DTC 9.8.

/Anders

[jmone]

Mmmm I'll test again with those sample files linked to in the other WASAPI thread, as:
1) my music collection is all 2ch WMA Lossless (& a little MP3)
2) windows Mixer is set to 5.1
= MC's WASAPI will change from 5.1 to 2.0 for my music playback.  Unlike Reclock when the track is finished it DOES NOT revert back to the default Control Panel Setting but stays at 2.0ch (reclock added this in a later version in the initial testing).  This is not normally a problem as it will then change to the correct channel config for the next track to be played (eg 5.1 Directshow etc), but I wonder.....

FYI - Cat 9.3 is out and now hows it's own HDMI Audio drivers built in but you had better read --> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1130698 .  I'll see if I can have a play with this one later.

Thanks
Nathan

[andy o]

I thought I'd chime to say I have same problem Andy has.

MC's WASAPI implementation does not change from 2.0 to 5.1 and vice versa automatically, whereas reclock does.

If I want to play a DTS WAV through MC I must set the sound properties in the control panel to 2.0 and it plays OK, but 5.1 recordings are sent to the pre-amp processor as 2.0.
If I set control panel properties to 5.1, the DTS WAV is played as static but the 5.1 FLACs come through as 5.1.

Sampling frequency however changes automatically with the source.

With reclock (through vmplayer), regardless of control panel settings, the DTS WAV plays and 5.1 flacs come across as 5.1.

I usd MC 13, build 132, I have the same gigabyte fanless 4550 card as andy and Nathan with 8.12 and 1.18 drivers. Pre-amp processor is the Integra DTC 9.8.

/Anders

Thanks for your input, Anders.

Could you tell us what resolution are you driving your monitor at via DVI or straight HDMI? That and the receiver is pretty much all I've narrowed the problem to. I've yet to try on a 1080p TV, and another receiver is out of the quesion at least for the moment.

The fact that it's working with Reclock might not be because of WASAPI, but Reclock has an option to change number of channels automatically, independently of the WASAPI setting (you can use it without WASAPI as well). That option works fine. WASAPI-exclusive mode though, should be independent of that setting. Even James at Slysoft (one of the developers) has stated that WASAPI-exclusive mode (when working right) will not be affected by that option being ticked or not. The new ATI drivers from the 9.3 package do switch channels with WASAPI, by the way, but they have other problems (see below).

[andy o]

FYI - Cat 9.3 is out and now hows it's own HDMI Audio drivers built in but you had better read --> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1130698 .  I'll see if I can have a play with this one later.

First thing I tested with the new drivers. I didn't mention it here because there was no point, but it did "fix" the WASAPI auto channel switching. Unfortunately, it carries some ugliness too.

No continuous audio, and it gives trouble with Reclock and WASAPI with 24-bit, 48000kHz audio. I get format not supported error. (Yes, I've tried setting Reclock to 32-bit, and also playing with the buffer.) The exact same files work OK with JRiver media center 13 and foobar2000 in WASAPI mode.

Besides that, it doesn't offer preset EQs and other enhancements that the Realtek does, but that's not an issue for most of us who don't use those.

It behaves much like the Nvidia driver in some ways.

[jmone]

Hi Andy - I've been following your posts on the AVS Fourm thread and have also started a thread on the reclock forum for those that want to post any results there http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=28530 ... unfortunatly I've yet to try it out!

I did however, have had a chance to retest MC's WASAPI implemenation with a range of files and have found that Channel Config was fine with all sample files EXCEPT the Stereo FLAC 24BIT/192kHz file.  Have a look at this post at http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=49536.msg349027#msg349027 - Can you try these files and see how you go....

[suviking]

Thanks for your input, Anders.

Could you tell us what resolution are you driving your monitor at via DVI or straight HDMI? That and the receiver is pretty much all I've narrowed the problem to. I've yet to try on a 1080p TV, and another receiver is out of the quesion at least for the moment.

I use 1080P and HDMI exclusively, i.e. HTPC --- HDMI (1080P) --- (Integra 9.8 ) --- HDMI (1080P) --- JVC RS1 PJ

The fact that it's working with Reclock might not be because of WASAPI, but Reclock has an option to change number of channels automatically, independently of the WASAPI setting (you can use it without WASAPI as well). That option works fine. WASAPI-exclusive mode though, should be independent of that setting. Even James at Slysoft (one of the developers) has stated that WASAPI-exclusive mode (when working right) will not be affected by that option being ticked or not. The new ATI drivers from the 9.3 package do switch channels with WASAPI, by the way, but they have other problems (see below).

Ah, that explains it, I do have that box checked.  I guess I should try with it unchecked to see if there's any difference. I'm also planning on testing the 9.3 drivers over the weekend. Interesting that auto switching works for you with it. At least an indication that the receiver may not be the culprit after all.

[andy o]

I use 1080P and HDMI exclusively, i.e. HTPC --- HDMI (1080P) --- (Integra 9.8 ) --- HDMI (1080P) --- JVC RS1 PJ

That's strange, I guess then it could be the receiver. I was thinking the DVI-HDMI think on my system was doing some funny business. Even though my monitor is capable of 1920x1080, I can't use that resolution for some reason with my Pioneer VSX-01TXH, but 1920x1200 passes through just fine. When I use 1200 though, my sampling rate is limited to 96kHz. Do you have yours set up to 192kHz? And all the sampling rate checkboxes ticked?

Ah, that explains it, I do have that box checked.  I guess I should try with it unchecked to see if there's any difference. I'm also planning on testing the 9.3 drivers over the weekend. Interesting that auto switching works for you with it. At least an indication that the receiver may not be the culprit after all.

I don't know about that, it might be some weird combination of the drivers plus the receiver. My laptop with Nvidia HDMI has been working for channel switching, same as the new ATI drivers, but they also give me the same problem of non-continuous audio, plus some WASAPI modes are not working. Maybe it has something to do with continuous audio.

[jmone]

Well, I can at least suggest a work-around using ReClock.  You can, in fact, bypass MC's audio playback chain completely and use DirectShow instead.  What you need to do is:

1. Go to tools>options
2. Select "File Types" from the left-side list
3. In the list, for each file type you want to play back change the playback method from "Automatic" to JRiver video engine(using DirectShow filters)
4. Select "Playback" from the left-side list
5. Under "Video" select "DirectShow video playback settings"
6. Make sure the audio renderer is set to ReClock.
7. Hit OK (lol I feel so patronizing putting that, but for the sake of being thorough..)

This way you can use the separate ReClock function (that you've said works for you) to automatically change the speaker config and WASAPI will handle changing the bit-depth/samplerate (which you've also said works for you).

After all that effort you deserve some results!

Thanks for this idea - I retested the files (in the other thread) and while I could only play a couple of the WAV files, they played stutter free which confirms the MC's WASAPI implemenation is the issue with the Pause/Stutter problem.

[Matt]

Coming in Media Center 13.0.143 and later:
NEW: Added WASAPI device option to flush the soundcard's buffer on pause (to fix cards that keep looping their buffers while paused).

Once the version is available, please let us know if it helps.  Thanks.

[jmone]

Coming in Media Center 13.0.143 and later:
NEW: Added WASAPI device option to flush the soundcard's buffer on pause (to fix cards that keep looping their buffers while paused).

Once the version is available, please let us know if it helps.  Thanks.

Hi Matt - no go still stutters & it is definatly the buffer, as by changing the value in MC you change the length of the stutter.  Using this option also repeat plays the buffer once on stopping as well.
Thanks
Nathan

[suviking]

I finally got some time to test the latest builds and drivers.

With build .143 I also noticed had the stuttering problem while pausing with the realteck 2.18 drivers and everything else worked as before, i.e. had to set the output to stereo for DTS WAVs to work and so forth.

I installed the ATI 9.3 drivers with ATI HDMI Audio. Now JRMC13 behaved very well. Auto switching works as Andy reported earlier - i.e. I can play DTS WAV followed by 24/96 5.1 followed by 2.0 24/192 followed by 2.0 16/44.1. The Integra confirms the input and the sampling frequency and there is no stutter on pause! My buffer is set to 0.44s.

With reclock on the other hand - I had 1.8.3.9 installed - things were a little different. With te Realtek drivers I had reclock set to 32 bit Integer. That did not work, so I changed it to "Same as input". That allowed me to play the same test tracks as above, BUT the DTS WAV came out as noise, so it is suspectible how bit-perfect the output really was...

When I changed the video output from 1080p60 to 1080p24, reclock crashed, so I got no sound with some MKVs I tested.

I upgraded to reclock 1.8.4.0 and now by using the same Same as Input" setting, the DTS WAV plays fine, but none of the 24 bit tracks plays and I no longer had it crash in 1080p24.

So with the ATI drivers it seems JRMC13 is working fine - autoswitching and no more stutter, but reclock may require some further work.

/Anders

[suviking]

Do you have yours set up to 192kHz? And all the sampling rate checkboxes ticked?

Andy,

when autoswitching works, as was the case with realtek and reclock and ati and jrmc, it doesn't seem to matter what sampling frequencies are enabled. For example, I did not have 44.1 and 192 enabled, but both formats played fine at the correct frequency as verified on the Integra when WASAPI is used.

[andy o]

Andy,

when autoswitching works, as was the case with realtek and reclock and ati and jrmc, it doesn't seem to matter what sampling frequencies are enabled. For example, I did not have 44.1 and 192 enabled, but both formats played fine at the correct frequency as verified on the Integra when WASAPI is used.

Thanks. I know that works, I was just stretching it, because I have ruled out everything except

1. the receiver(s)
2. having it at 192kHz/24bit, 1080p by default in Vista, which is how jmone and mrcorbo had it.

Everything else can be accounted for, except less likely things like motherboard, memory, hard drives and other unrelated stuff.

Right now I can't test any unfortunately. I don't want to have to use the Ati drivers just to get it, and my stupid curious mind would be nagging me as to why it didn't work for me.

[jmone]

Well I'm going to be giving the ATI HDMI drivers in Cat9.3 onwards a go as it does not have the stutter problem and I recon that they will keep these drivers being updated but I'm not sure if Realtek will anymore...  The compromise for me is:
1) Silent Stream:  If nothing is playing then nothing is being sent (eg my Receiver swithes back to 2.0 Analog from 2.0 / 5.1 PCM / DD / DTS etc).  This is not a big one for me as I don't care about hearing Windows sounds etc but I know some will.  It may also have the benefit of clearing the buffer.
2) 32-Bit Support:  Reclock's 32 Bit IEEE/Float does not work so I've set reclock to use the same input / output bit debth and disabled 32-Bit output in FFDSHOW.  As I don't have any 32-Bit source material I'm not sure I care at present.

Appart from that it all seems to work pretty well...