Topic: Can MC Read VORBIS_COMMENT in FLAC files? (Read 8888 times)

winterminute · « **on:** March 14, 2009, 05:31:58 pm »

I'm using dbPoweramp to rip all my CDs. I don't know if this is a wacky way of doing it, but they write all the metadata into a VORBIS_COMMENT section. At least according to metaflac, but the FLAC format is new to me, so maybe this makes perfect sense

Either way, I'd like to have some of these values show up in MC. I tried creating a new field with a value of: "replaygain_album_gain=", but MC just shows an empty field.

I assume if it works for one of attributes below it should work for any of them, is that correct?

One of the reasons I want this is so I can use AccurateRipDiscID to help weed out all my duplicates. This way I can see what I ripped with dbpoweramp vs who knows what.

METADATA block #1
type: 4 (VORBIS_COMMENT)
is last: false
length: 579
vendor string: reference libFLAC 1.2.1 20070917
comments: 18
comment[0]: replaygain_album_gain=-8.3 dB
comment[1]: replaygain_album_peak=0.988647
comment[2]: AccurateRipResult=AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 94) [9703FCD6]
comment[3]: AccurateRipDiscID=012-001797ba-00ded309-8b0cc40c-1
comment[4]: Title=The Boogie Bumper
comment[5]: Artist=Big Bad Voodoo Daddy
comment[6]: Album=Big Bad Voodoo Daddy [Interscope]
comment[7]: ALBUMARTIST=Big Bad Voodoo Daddy
comment[8]: Genre=Swing
comment[9]: Date=1998 02 24
comment[10]: UPC=606949029029
comment[11]: Style=Retro Swing
comment[12]: replaygain_track_gain=-9.2 dB
comment[13]: replaygain_track_peak=0.988647
comment[14]: TRACKNUMBER=1
comment[15]: TOTALTRACKS=12
comment[16]: DISCNUMBER=1
comment[17]: TOTALDISCS=1

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2009, 05:52:01 pm »

Why don't you rip with MC?

And why do you want Vorbis comments?

Your life would be a lot simpler to use MC and APE.

winterminute · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2009, 08:32:15 pm »

Hi Jim - My understanding is that dbpoweramp is the best ripper available right now and MC doesn't come close. MC is the best media management tool, but is a pretty average ripper at least from what I've read. I didn't pick Vorbis comments, that's just what DBPA uses. I poked around the settings, but didn't see any other way to store the data. Maybe there is another tool that can copy these fields into fields that MC can read.

Thanks...

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2009, 09:01:17 pm »

Quote from: winterminute on March 14, 2009, 08:32:15 pm

Hi Jim - My understanding is that dbpoweramp is the best ripper available right now and MC doesn't come close.

Based on experience or opinion?

You'd be best to try it for yourself. MC has no betters in ripping. There are several old threads on this.

winterminute · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2009, 09:31:23 pm »

I'll be honest, I can't hear the difference between MP3s encoded at 320 and 160, but my wife can nearly every single time with different encoders - it is truly amazing. When I set out to re-rip my whole CD collection once and for all, I did a bunch of research and it seemed like there were really only two options recommended: dbpa or EAC and dbpa has a pretty awesome metadata story. This was based on advice from friends as well as places like hydrogen.

I'm not really intersted in re-ripping my whole collection, but I'd be interested to hear MC's approach to ripping CDs and I suppose if the reasons were compelling I could be talked into it. With that on a side thread, any ideas how I can make use of the metadata that dbpa writes?

Listener · « **Reply #5 on:** March 15, 2009, 03:27:23 am »

I've been using FLAC files with MC 11, 12 and 13 for nearly 3 years. I've ripped CDs with EAC, CDex and dBpoweramp and imported the resulting Flac files into MC. However, most of the time I have used MC itself to rip CDs making Flac files. I ran byte-by-byte comparisons and found that secure ripping in MC produces the same audio stream as ripping in EAC when either program is able to rip with confidence.

You should be able to import your Flac files and the Vorbis Comments will be recognized by MC. Sometimes files ripped and tagged by another program will have non-standard characters that may not be handled in the same way by MC. This is one reason to prefer using the same program for ripping CDs, tagging the resulting files and doing library management and playback.

When MC imports Flac files, it matches the title in a comment to a library field name. Be sure that your tags match standard library fields or define your own user library fields.

Jim may recommend APE files but Flac files work just fine in MC.

Bill

winterminute · « **Reply #6 on:** March 15, 2009, 07:09:48 pm »

I've been running some side-by-side tests and while the files aren't identical, both dbpa and mc produce nearly identical file sizes and are both able to rip securely. However, dbpa has AMG integration which provides a lot more metadata (i.e. Styles) so I think I'll stick with that. You say that MC should be able to read vorbis comments, but I can't seem to get it to work. For instances, AccurateRipDiscID shows up in the VORBIS_COMMENTS block, but creating a field in MC for AccurateRipDiscID is always empty.

Also, for what it is worth, MC writes metadata to the same VORBIS_COMMENT block when ripping to FLAC so it is kind of odd that Jim wanted to know why I was using Vorbis comments.

JimH · « **Reply #7 on:** March 15, 2009, 07:43:02 pm »

Quote from: winterminute on March 15, 2009, 07:09:48 pm

... creating a field in MC for AccurateRipDiscID is always empty.

The field name must be identical.

)p( · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2009, 01:06:15 am »

Quote from: JimH on March 14, 2009, 09:01:17 pm

Based on experience or opinion?

You'd be best to try it for yourself. MC has no betters in ripping. There are several old threads on this.

Its not the ripping itself...but dbpoweramp has the best meta data lookup, it uses 4 Internet meta data providers simultaneously to get the best info for tagging.

peter

rosie · « **Reply #9 on:** March 19, 2009, 07:28:13 am »

MC reads FLAC tags for sure, which (I guess?) are allways in "Vorbis comment" format, which again - by definition - support any tag name in any format (www.xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html). So getting MC to read then should - in mind mind - only be a question of definning then 100% correctly or I am totally wrong here?

I have been using MC for a few years (MC12 at the moment, but I'll most likely upgrade as I just learned that the MC12 FLAC YEAR tag bug has been corrected) but it's ripping module doesn't give me all the options I need (e.g. I can not control the names of the folders for each cd).

JimH · « **Reply #10 on:** March 19, 2009, 08:05:39 am »

Quote from: rosie on March 19, 2009, 07:28:13 am

... ripping module doesn't give me all the options I need (e.g. I can not control the names of the folders for each cd).

In Options/File Location/Ripping... , you can set the location. The default is "Folder rule: [Artist]\[Album]"

rosie · « **Reply #11 on:** March 19, 2009, 08:09:05 am »

I know, but for compilations and multi-disc albums Easy gives me better options for storing, further as I remenber it Album artist is not supported while ripping. just upgraded to MC13 BTW, cool new features, looking forward to play with it.

Alex B · « **Reply #12 on:** March 19, 2009, 08:23:33 am »

Quote from: rosie on March 19, 2009, 07:28:13 am

MC reads FLAC tags for sure, which (I guess?) are allways in "Vorbis comment" format, which again - by definition - support any tag name in any format (www.xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html). So getting MC to read then should - in mind mind - only be a question of definning then 100% correctly or I am totally wrong here?

Correct. You can create an AccurateRipDiscID library field (without the equal symbol in front of the text string) and MC will read the file tag. If the file is already imported you need to do "Update Library (from tags)".

Quote

I have been using MC for a few years (MC12 at the moment, but I'll most likely upgrade as I just learned that the MC12 FLAC YEAR tag bug has been corrected) but it's ripping module doesn't give me all the options I need (e.g. I can not control the names of the folders for each cd).

Quote from: rosie on March 19, 2009, 08:09:05 am

I know, but for compilations and multi-disc albums Easy gives me better options for storing, further as I remenber it Album artist is not supported while ripping. just upgraded to MC13 BTW, cool new features, looking forward to play with it.

You can use the "Album Artist (auto)" field:

Quote

I have used "Easy CD-DA Extractor" for ripping (to FLAC) and converting (to what ever format my latest gadget prefers) for quite a few years now and I like it. Why is Easy not mentioned in regards to "best" ripper, I mean does it have a "known" quality or speed issue?

MC and EAC (Exact Audio Copy) have the so called secure ripping mode that tries to reread the possibly bad sectors and creates a log file. The last time I checked, Easy CD-DA Extractor didn't have a similar feature. Here's a screenshot of the secure mode settings:

Alex B · « **Reply #13 on:** March 19, 2009, 08:48:16 am »

You can also add the Disc number field to the filename rule and to the "rip details" view. However, MC seems to have a bug (or a design flaw) in this view. When a Disc number or any other field is added to the "rip details" view the column setup is not stored. The next time the view is opened the columns are reset to the default.

Some of the default columns like "stack icon" or "bitrate" are completely useless when audio CDs are ripped. Here is a screenshot of the columns that I would like to see by default:

Click to enlarge.

rosie · « **Reply #14 on:** March 19, 2009, 08:52:18 am »

Thx a lot, sounds like I got to give it another try as ripper.

winterminute · « **Reply #15 on:** March 20, 2009, 12:28:21 am »

Jim, you were right all along. I thought MC kept the tags and library in sync as part of a background process. I realized that after I added the field definition all new files had the value, so it was easy to tell MC to refresh from tags and now all of the Vorbis_Comments fields are readable.

Also, the FLAC Date bug... Is that when MC strips out the Month/Day when re-saving tags?

rosie · « **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2009, 03:18:31 am »

I have been playing arround with MC as ripper and I have a few comments/questions:

1) I ripped Death Row Greatest Hits (Disc 1). In Easy I can select the tag and folder name of "Multiple Artists" as I want (I have been using "Various") but in MC it only stores in the "(Multiple Artists)" folder, which is still ok as I always cn rename the directory if I want to. It's a two disc compilation and in Easy I can make it to save in subfolders CD1, CD2 etc. before ripping (so it would be \Various\Death Row Greatest Hits\CD1) - it is not a show stopper but is it possible in MC?

2) Further in Easy I can add Disc Number before ripping - is this possible in MC somehow or would I need to add it after ripping?

3) When I wanted to rip Disc 2 MC didn't find any information about it (which Easy does) - Can I control "Update from Online Database" so I decide which database to use? Which one is being used as default?

Some background info: I have my FLAC collection on a 1 TB QNAP TS-109. I use MC for playback on my laptopn and (since last week) I use Squeezebox (the Duet model) for playing music on my stereo (a great system BTW!). So what I'm trying to design is an optimal MC/SB rip/tag/organize/play solution with no other software involved (post-tagging/tag management, where I currently use Mp3tag, is the next thing on MC I'll look into).

Alex B · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2009, 03:38:47 am »

1) & 2)

In the rip details view you can create a column setup like the one in my screenshot.
Add the "Disc #", "Album Artist" and "Album Artist (auto)" columns there.
You can select all files and fill a value in the Album Artist field (e.g. Various) if you want to override the automatic value in the Album Artist (auto) field.

An easy way to select the files and get the text cursor in the correct column is to use the right-click "lasso" selection feature on the field you want to edit and press F2.

As I said, there is a bug and the column setup is not saved. For now, you can save it as a preset and load it back before starting a new rip session. (Right-click the column header area to access the Presets feature.)

3) MC can access only its own database. It can read the CDplayer.ini file, so if you have a program that can find the correct info and save it to CDPlayer.ini you can import that data to MC before ripping the CD. Some MC users use the freeware Player program for that.

rosie · « **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2009, 03:52:37 pm »

Thanks, just tried it. Cool with the presets feature and the lasso trick. First I couldn't find cdplayer.ini (Player doesn't say where it is saved) but it is under C:\Windows and apparently MC looks there as default so you don't have to think about it. BUT... don't know if it is only this CD but Artist = "Various Artists" and Name = "<Artist> - <Name>" so I have to manually move Artist names from the Name tag and over to the Artist tag.

Alex B · « **Reply #19 on:** March 24, 2009, 05:53:36 am »

Storing track info to "CDplayer.ini" is a very old standard from the times when playing a physical audio CD was about the only sensible thing you could do if you wanted to play music on a PC. It does not support "various artists" CDs well and MC cannot interpret individual track artists if they are included.

I hope you don't have many various artists CDs that are not already in the database that MC uses.

You can right-click the "CD" icon in "Drives & Devices" in the tree to access the "update from online database", "update from CDPlayer.ini " and "submit to online database" features. In my opinion these functions are quite hidden there and their existence is not obvious.

A feature request to JRiver: please add buttons for these functions in the rip details window.

rosie · « **Reply #20 on:** March 24, 2009, 03:35:41 pm »

As I am done ripping all my albums it is not a big issue really. BTW the bug you talked about doesn't seam to happen for me!? My column setup seams to be saved...

Don't know if you are familiar with Mp3tag but I am curious to here from people who do in regards to the question: does MC provide all the tag management and editing that Mp3tag does?

Alex B · « **Reply #21 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:23:15 pm »

Quote from: rosie on March 24, 2009, 03:35:41 pm

BTW the bug you talked about doesn't seam to happen for me!? My column setup seams to be saved...

Suddenly also my setup is saved. Before reporting the problem as a bug in the release thread I did all kinds of tests and each time the ripping view was reset to the default when I came back from another view. I really don't know what is going on.

Quote

Don't know if you are familiar with Mp3tag but I am curious to here from people who do in regards to the question: does MC provide all the tag management and editing that Mp3tag does?

These two programs are based on a different philosophy. MC is a database based program. It stores everything in its database. It can store file metadata and statistics even if the file format does not support tags, including videos, pictures and documents. Mp3tag is a specialized audio file tagger that supports only physical file tags.

As audio file taggers these two programs have a bit different features, but both are excellent taggers. I use mainly MC, but sometimes also Mp3tag for special operations. I have posted a few replies in which I explain how Mp3tag can be used for specific tag conversions in addition to MCs built-in tagger.

rosie · « **Reply #22 on:** March 25, 2009, 12:33:54 am »

So what view is prefered for tagging purposes? I mean, I am familiar with "presets", which are cool but what are they compared with a "view"? I guess the best would be a single section/pane view that looks like a straight forward Mp3tag list without any grouping etc. but it seams like MC allways have a top an a buttom section or? I am a little lost with the various options I most say.

rosie · « **Reply #23 on:** March 25, 2009, 01:07:49 am »

Ok, I guess I found out that a "preset" is just a combination of collums whereas a "view" is much more. When creating a custom view (which can be saved in a prefered location on the disk) a preset can be used. So what is the listing to the left under Audio (Artist/Album, Disc Location etc.)?

I would still like to hear about the best view to "replace" Mp3tag (I guess I need to learn how to use Expression Columns using the Expression Editor...)

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Author Topic: Can MC Read VORBIS_COMMENT in FLAC files? (Read 8888 times)