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[JimH]

I removed the thread on how to increase MC visibility.  It turned into a feature request thread.

I thought that these two posts had some valuable insight.

Jack Wallstreet:

...

2. Visibility, while a problem, is not an answer in and of itself to more sales.  I think the MC  interface and options are very intimidating and even if well advertised, MC will lose out to Itunes and WMC most of the time due to a non-obvious playing interface and scary options.  Suggestion: Have a much better "initial/beginner" user interface, probably one that more mimics Itunes or WMC.  Have a switch that turns on or off advanced features.  It needs to work and give the appearance of working right out of the box.  MC doesn't do that now to casual users.

3. The free MC is a way to get people introduced.  I like that but I don't know if it is effective in eventually generating revenue without a clear hook to a paid version.  And if the hook is to disable common features, why would anyone use the free version instead of Itunes and WMC.  I like the free version as a marketing concept (if it is current), but maybe others have ideas on how to use it more effectively to generate revenue.

4. Visibility - I'll look to others to cover this.  I agree it is an issue.  I think that ensuring good user comments on some of the boards is important.  I think that addressing the first 3 issues will help get the reviews (but there may be are other ways to get the good reviews also).  People always have Itunes and WMC (etc).  If they are happy with them, there is no reason why they should switch or try something different.  There MUST be a hook to get people interested in MC or visibility will not last, no matter what is spent or the resources used.  I think the existing hooks are flexibility, power, etc., and while that is valuable, it is of limited interest.

Lasse_Lus:

I read on the MC frontpage: Music, photos and video YOUR way -- all from a single software program! Connect your PC to your home entertainment hardware and control it all with a remote! Load your music on your iPod while you watch TV! All with one easy-to-use program -- MEDIA CENTER!

if you ask me, widen it ..i see so much unused potential in the MC software but still it's only focusing on the three above in bold..why not give the future users some new ideas ? use it for everything..

for me MC has become the "heart" of everything i do..i started with music, then images..but today i use it for organizing almost any stuff like my RSS feeds, scripts, different kind of transactions..i create "photo" tasks for remember the milk..i have started with a wine database and will also include my stocks and fundings..

i don't expect or maybe even want to use MC like evernote..BUT the new evernote (3) is (kind of) like MC but so so poor..they have taken ideas from MC like smartlists, but they are so simple so you can't use them..i dont say that you should be a notetaker, but i say there is potential because you have so many good things in MC that nobody can compete with...

i have worked 10 years in the financial industry, mostly with reports, system and reconciliation..and i know that MC could be used there and in many other business and do great stuff..  problem it's a musicplayer at the top..

for me MC is not a just player.. it's a database with fantastic potential and you can do almost anything with it, of course there is a need for a multi user environment..

[gappie]

i think the first question is what jrivers things what its customers base is, and secondly, how much 'new' customers she needs.

it is clear that a lot of people wont need anything more than itunes or wmp or any other of the free programs. and those people will never be a potential customer for mc.
but there are some that are looking for a media player with a robust and customizeable database that can do also a lot of other things that the free players also do, and more, most of the time. so the question is where those users might start looking for something like that, or how they could know that something like that even excists. and how big this group of people is.

the question is not how to make the software as easy as itunes but for a few dollars extra.

the potential users are, imo, people who look for more power and options to play and manage their media with a nice interface. and only those potential users need to know about it. its not the whole itunes community that has to know the name, because then mc will get lost between all the others. but the name of jrivers media center should go around in the places where the potential clients might look as a serious piece of software that is worth its money and that the time someone invests in it is worth it.

ah well.. just my incoherent thoughts on this subject.

 
gab

[Daydream]

"The medium is the message". As a high-concept observation, we are witnessing the paradigm in effect with MC. It doesn't matter if it was intentional or not. The way MC embeds itself in the middle of your digital resources, creating a permanent state of ready-to-deliver for whatever crazy ideas you might come up with, this in itself alters the perception of the resources in question. Because of that MC is ahead of the curve and is difficult to explain it to plain users.

These said users (potential future MC customers) are not helped from either side. From the outside they are brainwashed by MS, Apple and the likes with techniques of "and we'll make it easy for you, to the point you don't need to think, you don't need a brain". From the inside we're not helping much either (in spite of wiki, a very well organized forum, etc, we are a highly-technical place to be). And here comes my first suggestion.

1) People need to SEE MC. Screenshots galore, YouTube clips, active content, web 2.0. I got 6 entries when I searched JRiver Media Center on YouTube. Come again? Where's the love? Where are the people showing off their Media Centers built around MC? We need that. We need to SHOW that is possible to control your media center with unrivaled flexibility. Better than other solutions.
For the pros we need to SHOW that there is room to invent crazy cool solutions - so that if I went to great length to control the lights in the house with my iphone/itouch, I can also control MC with the same device, if I really want.

2) The gloss, the bling, the one thing that will get somebody hooked. MC does too many things. Pick one and advertise it. I would choose the "MC" in MC for obvious reasons. It's not a trick or anything, is just about opening one door for people to come in, not 15 at once that will get them confused. Allow for a gradual realization of what's available. There's a small  problem there: we don't have something to rival let's say, the Aeon skin for XBMC. I'm no designer, but regarding the 10ft interface I sometimes wonder if JRiver wasn't influenced by the websites concepts when putting together their own (vertical approach to certain elements). Bottom line we have a lot but we need a way to SHOW it (off), to get the idea across in a catchy, non-technical way.

3) Target certain high-profile online communities. On AVSForum (with its >330.000 registered users) I didn't see anything poignant about MC. Stickies are about other MC solutions. Engadget did they ever wrote anything about MC? I can't find it. On Lifehacker I was appalled; not only MC didn't win the last couple of the "favorite Media Center" hive-five articles, it wasn't even mentioned. I've seen sites not being able to cope with the traffic after being mentioned on Lifehacker.

Just brainstorming. I'm well aware some things are not as easy as writing them down.

[Mr ChriZ]

I agree with what Daydreams written.

[jmone]

Nice topic for anyone doing their MBA at the moment......

There are probably a 100 ways people found MC, my own journey was that I could not play mpg files with DTS tracks using anything based on the MS File Splitter, so I moved though all the Theater View type apps I could find...MCE, MediaPortal, Nero etc but they all had one issue or the other.  I just stumbled on MC by mistake and I've never left since!

I have to say that before building “MC’s Visibility”, you need to answer the question “In What?”.  It all depends on where you want to take MC and what you see your “sustained competitive advantage” is (see got an MBA term in!).   As this marketplace continues to mature we will see a couple of Generalist titles dominate the mass market (MS, Apple etc) and specialty titles that provides some “extra” that particular market segments need.  MC will have to have all the “me too” features AND provide the extras in whatever segment you want to market to.  Once you have this you can then press each of your claims in the appropriate segment (hit the Audiophile, HTPC, etc etc forums, target specific reviewers, advertisement…. Whatever is appropriate for that segment).

There are so many different market segments you need to look at what you’re competitive position in each is then look at targeting each segment to drive this “Visibility”.  As an indication of MC’s current market “Visibility” I’ve just used Wikipedia as an example for a couple of market/market segments that pop to mind:
* Overall "best" media player:   far to much work/expense IMHO as the marketplace is so crowded....MC is one of many at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_player_(application_software) or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_media_players
* Audiophile Market: Press you claims in the forums around WASAPI / ASIO, large collection mgt, etc  MC is not even listed at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Stream_Input/Output
* Videophile Market:  Likewise the flexibility in the customisable DirectShow filter is good but competition such as MPC is developing more and more customisation for the Videophile.
* ITunes Replacement:  I’m not an IPOD user but MC seemed to attract a lot of Apple users, but this seems to have fallen off???  MC is one of many at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_iPod_managers and there is little apparent differentiation.
* Media Center:  Lots of interest in the HTPC market but need to differentiate from the big players (MS MC, Media Portal) – MC gets a mention in the links  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_center
* Media Server:  MC has a partial solution (no video transcoding for example) so will struggle against specialty products like TVersity.  MC is not even listed on the Wikipedia page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPnP_AV_MediaServers

Like with many of your competitors, a big issue is that MC still has a few holes that mean users will have to get used to other products and this just invites your customers to swap camps.  Eg If (like me) you have Blu-ray disks and you want an HTPC front end then MS MC + Arcsoft TMT may be a better choice.  If I’m IPOD focused then ITunes may be better.  As these holes get filled in by your competitors you face the risk of churn from MC to these titles.

Thanks
Nathan

[rjm]

I am an advocate that wants JRiver to be healthy and grow. I have tried to create MC customers by persuading family and friends. Unfortunately with little success. What I conclude from my poor track record is that MC is best suited for, and most appreciated by, serious media collectors. Perhaps it is time to acknowledge this and really go after this segment of the market.

I believe there are a bunch of serious media collectors in the world that do not know about MC and would switch if they got the right message.

Some of the key messages should be:
- fast and lean
- handles really BIG libraries
- no compromise multi-media: music, photos, video, dvd, TV, books, podcasts, YouTube
- HTPC ready
- power tagging and renaming
- extreme UI customization
- power playlist and search tools
- responsive development team with new features every week

After writing the above list I went to the JRiver home page and its detailed feature page. None of the above points jumped out at me.

From where to send the message? Wherever media collectors hang out. Places like TPB, Demonoid, avsforum, Doom9, and Slyck.

So how to get money out of these people? The best way in my opinion is to provide some truly valuable service that requires use of a JRiver server to deliver the service. Forget about charging for a proprietary database like YABD. But provide some tools for pulling tag data from a standard database like AMG or IMDB, now your talking. How can you legitimately force these services through your servers? Because the scripts will have to change frequently to keep pace with changes on the target sites.

What about further differentiation to help target this audience? How about an integrated BitTorrent client? With a customizable search box for your favorite torrent sites. And auto tagging and renaming when downloads complete.

Or what about a really nicely integrated dvd -> h264 rip tool?

I suspect many of these ideas are not compatible with JRiver's values, but thought I'd throw them out anyway because they might work.

[)p(]

I am an advocate that wants JRiver to be healthy and grow. I have tried to create MC customers by persuading family and friends. Unfortunately with little success. What I conclude from my poor track record is that MC is best suited for, and most appreciated by, serious media collectors. Perhaps it is time to acknowledge this and really go after this segment of the market.

I believe there are a bunch of serious media collectors in the world that do not know about MC and would switch if they got the right message.

Some of the key messages should be:
- fast and lean
- handles really BIG libraries
- no compromise multi-media: music, photos, video, dvd, TV, books, podcasts, YouTube
- HTPC ready
- power tagging and renaming
- extreme UI customization
- power playlist and search tools
- responsive development team with new features every week

After writing the above list I went to the JRiver home page and its detailed feature page. None of the above points jumped out at me.

I agree and on a personal level that list would have convinced me to become a user much more then the info now on the jriver website.

I think a better presence in communities that power users frequent is one of the keys to get better exposure to them. Maybe become a sponsor on some of these key websites and forums. This could create both some goodwill towards and focused exposure for jrmc.

peter

[p7389]

I think a better presence in communities that power users frequent is one of the keys to get better exposure to them. Maybe become a sponsor on some of these key websites and forums. This could create both some goodwill towards and focused exposure for jrmc.

peter

Yes, sponsoring som audophile forum would be a great way to go, I believe. You could also increase your price by 5-10, but offer users of the sponsored site(s) the same amount in rebate...

[hit_ny]

I am an advocate that wants JRiver to be healthy and grow. I have tried to create MC customers by persuading family and friends. Unfortunately with little success. What I conclude from my poor track record is that MC is best suited for, and most appreciated by, serious media collectors. Perhaps it is time to acknowledge this and really go after this segment of the market.

Pretty much been the same experience for me. I must say since the introduction of the free version i've found ppl much more open to trying things out.

When i post in threads where people ask about ideas i always ask them if they are happy with their chosen solutions. If they are i leave it at that. It makes no sense evangelising here as it risks getting taken the wrong way.

Its when they say they are not happy or have overgrown their existing solutions that the door opens. Its when the media acquired reaches the point where file explorer & chosen media player become unwieldy. At which point it dawns that maybe a tags based system is more scalable than a filenaming system because it additionally permits several new ways of viewing the same data.

There is still the barrier of data entry, it has to reach such a painful point where the incentive of perceived benefit overcomes the monotony of data entry. You can try automated solutions but there is only one way to get it all right and to your satisfaction.

There is certain demographic i've noticed, MC appeals to old FARTS 

Its rare to get someone in their low 20s to like this sort of system. Just too much work and not enough flash. Nah, its function-follows-form with that lot 

[p7389]

Its rare to get someone in their low 20s to like this sort of system. Just too much work and not enough flash. Nah, its function-follows-form with that lot 

I'm in the 20-25 age bracket. But I still agree with you, most wouldn't bother. I'm truly aghast as seeing some peoples media organization. They download everything, to begin with, and then they navigate the download folder where they keep everything in a big mess and launch their music from the file explorer. It's absolutely incomprehensible! But I do think that I'm a very different music listener compared to these peope as well.

It goes without saying that visibility for this bunch of clowns is a waste of effort...

You need to be a bit of a nerd and have some OCD tendencies I guess 

[leezer3]

I'm in the 20-25 age bracket. But I still agree with you, most wouldn't bother. I'm truly aghast as seeing some peoples media organization. They download everything, to begin with, and then they navigate the download folder where they keep everything in a big mess and launch their music from the file explorer. It's absolutely incomprehensible! But I do think that I'm a very different music listener compared to these peope as well.

It goes without saying that visibility for this bunch of clowns is a waste of effort...

You need to be a bit of a nerd and have some OCD tendencies I guess 

I'm 22 
My drives are a mess, everything's stored in MC instead though- I've never seen the need to neatly organise the folders when everything can be found in the DB far more easily.


Visibility wise, a couple of main points:
1. The homepage will provide any users initial impressions, and IMHO it needs a little work.

• Just on the homepage, there are two different versions of the MC logo- This screams inconsistency.
• The central image with the mouseover hovers is nice, but why aren't they clickable?
• The clickable screenshots are again nice, but I'd make a few changes here. You've got nice slideshow templates in Pix01, why not add these to a slideshow along with a few others & some description.
• The complete features list- Nice, but wants categorising, and almost as importantly detail. For example, "Customizable View schemes -- Best file organization of any jukebox"- Where is the detail?
  

Can provide plenty more with a little thought, but I'd seriously consider spending a little time working on the site.

2. Forum frequenting- A horrible subject TBQH. You'll find nasty fanboys cropping up all over the place, and more often than not the reccomended stuff will come from an 'old boy'. I wouldn't count on this for anything much really, and quite possibly a hiding to nothing.

For those complaining about Wikipedia, edit it yourself
Added us to the ASIO page FWIW.

-Leezer-

[benn600]

I'm 21 but find others my age very unlikely to be interested in MC.

[ThoBar]

Google "iTunes replacement" or "itunes alternative"  ... you get zip for MC. If you're going after the non-itunes loving market, getting your google rank up for those two search terms would probably be a good way to start.

Though this wont help visibility... moving YADB from user-contributes to a more comprehensive database would be nice. Merging MC with Performer may be the way to do this, and to also grab a bit of market. I like the look of performer and where it's heading, but it needs ALL of MCs functionality and to be available globally.

[p7389]

I'm 22 
My drives are a mess, everything's stored in MC instead though- I've never seen the need to neatly organise the folders when everything can be found in the DB far more easily.

Yeah, but then I'd say you do organize. Just not on the level of filestructure. You've moved beyond that

MC can do it for you as well, once the DB is set up.

I had missed this Performer thing. I don't like it It dashes my pipe dream of MC integrating streaming from Spotify...

As for the homepage. Yes, it is quite pitiful. It's the kind of website that would make me dismiss the program without even trying it out, if the website was my only source of information.

By the way, looking around a bit in regards to MC visibility on the web... CNET have a review of 11, and it's not exactly glowing either...

The bad:
Cumbersome and difficult interface; frequent crashes during testing; new image editor is poor; new text indexing and searching is difficult to set up.

The bottom line:
With each version, Media Center adds more features but never addresses the interface problems that have made it cumbersome and difficult. We like the idea of using one app to control everything, but we'll gladly stick with Windows Media Player and Musicmatch.

You should get them to have a look at 13, and actually give it a proper test

[hit_ny]

As for the homepage. Yes, it is quite pitiful. It's the kind of website that would make me dismiss the program without even trying it out, if the website was my only source of information.

But  isn't this more an indictment of the kind of user that is more impressed by flash over function, than what the product actually is ?

JRiver figured best thing was to let ppl take MC on a test ride and then make up thier own minds. I've yet to hear anyone come up with a better alternative to that.

I think word of mouth is instrumental in getting ppl to try out MC than its homepage. And there have been some excellent comments so far in this regard.

My experience & willingness to try out the new certainly has been influenced to a large extent by what my peers recommend.

There is one ace JRiver has over the majority of other media managers. Take a look at this page. If that list continues to grow, feel bullish on their future prospects..

[p7389]

But  isn't this more an indictment of the kind of user that is more impressed by flash over function, than what the product actually is ?

Touché.

Just the other night I read a passage in The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen that I actually do think hold true quite a bit of truth:

"The beauty of the Internet was that Chip could post whole-cloth fabrications without troubling to check even his spelling. Reliability on the Web was ninteny-eight percent a function of how slick and cool your site looked...." (pg 504)

Awareness does not equal absolute immunity.

And as for exploring MC by trying out the trial, of course that's the best way. But it needs to get to that point as well. And even then, as has been noted, MC is a bit imposing in the beginning 

I might also add that I wouldn't want a flashy... flash site. Just more information, a clearner presentation and better structure. What I think isn't the problem though. It's what the prospective users think. I'm already a convert 

[JimH]

Just the other night I read a passage in The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen that I actually do think hold true quite a bit of truth:

"The beauty of the Internet was that Chip could post whole-cloth fabrications without troubling to check even his spelling. Reliability on the Web was ninety-eight percent a function of how slick and cool your site looked...." (pg 504)

(From The New Yorker magazine)

[datdude]

i would tend to agree that mc is best suited for power users.   not because it is difficult to use necessarily, but because apple/microsoft is a known quantity and u arent going to beat that until you start having tv commercials across the world in prime time.

Focus on the coolest craziest ideas that make managing and playing media, easier and funner.  Period.

That's what I would do if I was master and commander.