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[lalittle]

After my system has been running for a while, the drop shadows on MC13 pop-up windows suddenly become pure black instead of the normal "soft shadows."  The result is that the right and lower edges of these windows become fully opaque, pure black edges with a hard "corner" on the lower right.

I've been unable to determine the pattern to when this happens, but rebooting or logging off/on always fixes it for a while.  After some time, however (perhaps less than an hour), the incorrect drop-shadows return.  I just saw this happen again tonight -- the only thing I had done since the last time the shadows displayed correctly was browse the web.

This has been happening for the last few nvidia driver releases.  I'm using a Geforce 8800GTS 512.

Larry

[lalittle]

I just confirmed the exact same issue on a different system running MC12.  This other system is also running a Geforce 8800GTS 512, but it's currently running an older driver.

I don't see any other graphics issues in any other programs, including the drop shadows on the Windows XP pop-up balloons.  Drop shadows always look normal except in MC after the system has been running for a while.

Both systems are XP Pro SP3.

Larry

[lalittle]

It seems like the only factor that causes this is simply waiting for enough time.  I checked before going to bed and the shadows were normal.  When I got up I checked it before doing much (if anything) on the system, and the shadows where black strips again.  The fact that I'm seeing it on two different systems is significant, and I'm wondering if it's an XP only thing given that a lot of MC users use Vista now.  I can say that I've seen this for quite a while now.

Can anyone offer any assistance with this?  It's a fairly ugly effect, and it was a little embarrassing the other day when I was showing somebody MC and had to reboot to fix it.  It would have been even more embarrassing if they had seen that the problem always returns later.

Thanks,

Larry

[lalittle]

Still happening -- same thing with MC14.  Is there possibly a graphic setting I'm missing or a way turn just turn the shadows OFF in MC?  As I mentioned, the issue is unique to MC -- drop shadows under popups in other programs all look fine.  I also tried turning off the Windows "Show shadows under menus" option and the MC issue remained.  What about nvidia settings -- is there perhaps an advanced setting in the nvidia control panel that might fix this?

Is anybody still using XP that could perhaps help me out with troubleshooting this?  I see it on BOTH of the systems here, both of which are running XP and nvidia cards, so it's not unique to one system.

Does JR still test on XP systems for longer periods of time?  As I mentioned above, it's never an issue after a new boot -- I have to use the system for a day or two (for normal things like web browsing) before the issue starts again, but it always eventually happens.

Thanks,

Larry

[lalittle]

Does anybody have any feedback on this?  It's still happening on all my XP systems and all versions of MC I try (12, 13, and 14.)  I haven't yet seen this on my Vista system, which leads me to believe that it might be an XP specific issue.  Since all of my "main" systems are still running XP, this issue effects me every day.  As long as the system is on for a while, it happens.

Thanks,

Larry

PS.  Could one of the moderators possibly move this thread to the MC13 board where it might be seen by more people?  I could repost it there, but I thought it would be easier if the whole thing was moved.

[marko]

Hi Larry,
I'm running on Windows XP SP3 here, using a GeForce 8800 GTX 768 and nvidia driver version 182.08

I tend to leave this system running 24/7, its current uptime is 264930 sec (3 days, 1 hours, 35 min, 30 sec)
and it's longest uptime so far, is 1167190 sec (13 days, 12 hours, 13 min, 10 sec)

I've not replied earlier, because I have never encountered this problem (assuming that by 'pop-up windows' you mean things such as tooltips). That's despite Photoshop repeatedly telling me that there's a problem with my display driver so it's disabled the advanced display options!!! Perhaps there's something in that, I don't know, everything else, games included, seem to work just fine ?

-marko.

[lalittle]

Hi Larry,
I'm running on Windows XP SP3 here, using a GeForce 8800 GTX 768 and nvidia driver version 182.08

I tend to leave this system running 24/7, its current uptime is 264930 sec (3 days, 1 hours, 35 min, 30 sec)
and it's longest uptime so far, is 1167190 sec (13 days, 12 hours, 13 min, 10 sec)

I've not replied earlier, because I have never encountered this problem (assuming that by 'pop-up windows' you mean things such as tooltips). That's despite Photoshop repeatedly telling me that there's a problem with my display driver so it's disabled the advanced display options!!! Perhaps there's something in that, I don't know, everything else, games included, seem to work just fine ?

-marko.

Thanks for the response Marko.  When you say that "it's disabled the advanced display options," do you know what options it's referring to?  I'm not sure if this means something in Photoshop, or something in the display driver settings.  I have PS CS3, and I haven't seen any such message.

Like you, I don't have any problems in anything else -- all my other apps including several games work fine.  It's just MC that gives me these issues, and as I mentioned the same thing happens with 12, 13, and 14.  You are correct that it's the little "tool tips" that do this, as well as the song info pop-up that you get when mousing over a track.

Thanks,

Larry

[marko]

CS4 does drop-shadowy things, and grids over zoomed in images. It uses OpenGL for that all that stuff, apparently!

Every so often, it complains that "there's a  problem with my display driver" and disables the settings for it. These are photoshop settings, use/don't use, not driver settings.

-marko.

[lalittle]

I've found a repeatable pattern to this issue.  It appears to be some interaction issue between Internet Explorer 8, Zonealarm Forcefield, and MC.  If I open a Zonealarm "protected" browser with IE8 (which means that Forcefield is active), MC has the pure black shapes for shadows.  If I close IE, the MC shadows are normal.  If I open an "Unprotected" browser (meaning that Forcefield is NOT active), the MC shadows are still normal.

This is repeatable with MC13.

I'm using Zonealarm Extreme, which uses the 1.3.153.0 build of Forcefield.  I'll report this to Zonealarm, but given that it's MC that's malfunctioning, I doubt that any fix will be pursued by them.

Thanks again for any feedback on this,

Larry

[JimH]

Larry,
It looks like Zonealarm is affecting the video driver.  Maybe overwriting video memory.  It isn't something we can fix.

Jim

[lalittle]

Larry,
It looks like Zonealarm is affecting the video driver.  Maybe overwriting video memory.  It isn't something we can fix.

Jim

It's note-worthy, however, that MC is the ONLY program that gives me this issue.  Lots of windows apps have drop-shadows under the pop-ups (including Windows itself), and they all work fine.  Since only MC has this issue, wouldn't this at least imply that MC is doing drop-shadows differently that other apps?

Can anyone really say at this point that it's Zonealarm and not MC that is "causing" this issue?  Frankly, I would bet that it IS in fact Zonealarm's fault, but since it's an "interaction" issue, either program could be the actual culprit, and a fix could therefore potentially come from either side.  I'm pretty sure that Zonealarm's response will be that it's an MC issue, and that it is therefore something that THEY can't fix.  This is the problem with software interaction issues -- it's pretty easy to just assume that it's the "other guy."

Might there be some test I could do in MC -- perhaps some sort of logging -- that could potentially help point to the source of the issue regardless of whose "fault" it is?  My fear is that neither side will look into this, and I'll be stuck in the middle with no chance for a fix.  Does MC utilize IE in any way for it's browsing, and could this be causing the issue somehow?

Thanks again for any thoughts on this,

Larry

[JimH]

It's note-worthy, however, that MC is the ONLY program that gives me this issue.  

That's like saying that the Golden Gate Bridge caused your car to have an accident since that's where it happened.

Try updating DirectX from Microsoft.

[Peter_T]

That's like saying that the Golden Gate Bridge caused your car to have an accident since that's where it happened.

Which could be valid if it was repeatable by many drivers. 

[JimH]

Which could be valid if it was repeatable by many drivers. 

I think it would need to be all drivers.  Many drivers are bad. 

[Matt]

What dialogs have a dropshadow?  The unskinned File Open dialogs are the only ones I'd expect to have a shadow.

And it's not really an "interaction" with equal blame.  We don't touch other processes or system APIs.  Zone Alarm apparently does.

[lalittle]

Please note that I agree that the "fault" most likely lies with ZA.  I'm simply pointing out the patterns, and noting that while many programs use drop-shadows under pop-ups, MC is the only one that has this issue.  The key to solving this could be to figure out what MC is doing different when it comes to drop shadows.  One other interesting thing I noticed is that when I go to MC's "File > Open Media File" and mouse over the files or folders in the list, the drop shadows for the file info pop-ups appear normally.  I guess this is because this is a "windows-based" window.  It's just the "MC-based" pop-ups that have the incorrect drop shadows.

What dialogs have a dropshadow?  The unskinned File Open dialogs are the only ones I'd expect to have a shadow.

You mean in Media Center?  All of the "tool-tip" pop-ups have shadows -- i.e. mousing over the play controls or several of the items in the main tree such as "Audio," "Start," or "Playing Now."  Also, the little "info" pop-ups that you get when mousing over a song have shadows.

And it's not really an "interaction" with equal blame.  We don't touch other processes or system APIs.  Zone Alarm apparently does.

No argument here -- I'm just trying to find a solution.  Even if the fix has to come from ZA, it would still help if I could figure out what it is that is different about the way MC does drop shadows.  If I could figure this out, it could point to what it is that ZA is doing that is interfering with MC.

Thanks again for any help here,

Larry

[lalittle]

I downloaded and ran the latest DirectX installer from MS.  It said that the latest version was already installed, and that no installation was necessary.

Larry

[Matt]

You mean in Media Center?  All of the "tool-tip" pop-ups have shadows -- i.e. mousing over the play controls or several of the items in the main tree such as "Audio," "Start," or "Playing Now."  Also, the little "info" pop-ups that you get when mousing over a song have shadows.

Interesting.

Those are cheater drop-shadows, meaning they're built by grabbing a static picture of what's on the screen and painting over it.  We grab the screen, copy from it, and release.  I can't think why it'd fail, or why zone-alarm would change it.

Double-check the handle and GDI object count in Task Manager for Media Center next time it happens to make sure they're not really high. (over 1000)

[lalittle]

Interesting.

Those are cheater drop-shadows, meaning they're built by grabbing a static picture of what's on the screen and painting over it.  We grab the screen, copy from it, and release.  I can't think why it'd fail, or why zone-alarm would change it.

It's the "Forcefield" component of ZA that causes this.  FF is a "browser sandbox" feature that makes the browser (IE or Firefox) run in a "virtual" space, preventing malware from effecting the "actual" system.  Opening an "unprotected" browser opens the browser without FF protection, at which point the MC shadows are normal.  I'll check to see if it's the "virtualization" component of FF (which is the "main" aspect of it) that causes the issue.

Double-check the handle and GDI object count in Task Manager for Media Center next time it happens to make sure they're not really high. (over 1000)

For the MC13 exe file, the GDI count hovers around 300, and the "Handle" count is in the upper 300s.  They appear to be roughly the same without an IE window running.

Is there any MC log info that might help?

Thanks,

Larry

[JimH]

Is there any MC log info that might help?

Larry,
This appears to be purely a zonealarm problem.  We'll be happy to try to assist them in any way, but I doubt there's anything we can do.

Jim

[lalittle]

Larry,
This appears to be purely a zonealarm problem.  We'll be happy to try to assist them in any way, but I doubt there's anything we can do.

Jim

I'm sure that anything I can tell ZA about this will be extremely helpful -- i.e. any clue I can give them about why MC is effected in this particular way.  I'm not sure that simply reporting the issue to them will be very effective without any details.  Since shadows look normal in other apps, MC is obviously doing "something" different when it comes to shadows, so this is what I'm really curious about.

Even if the fix has to come from ZA, I'm still hoping that information from JR (or MC logs) might be able to help point to the "reason" for the issue.

Thanks,

Larry

[MrC]

Ask them to install MC and reproduce the problem.

ZA is an *intrusive* program, intercepting normal operations, and as such, needs to work out the edge cases.  The ZA folks know how to debug these types of problems; that's their business.