Topic: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote (Read 101536 times)

JimH · « **on:** June 03, 2009, 10:49:09 am »

[Edit -- this feature is now available in MC14]

For the Ten Foot Couch Potato mode, we're thinking about taking advantage of the low cost of Netbook PC's to control a Home Theater PC.

Here's how it would work:

1. A copy of MC would be installed on the netbook and on the HTPC across the room.

2. At startup time on the netbook, MC would connect to the HTPC's library. (This is similar to what now happens when you use Library Server in MC.)

3. You could then use the netbook's MC to select what you wanted to play and to start playback, but audio and video would come from the HTPC, not the netbook.

I'm interested in whether this might solve a problem for some users.

Notes:
a. The PC wouldn't need to be a netbook, but it would need to run Windows.
b. The remote could be in another room (office PC starts playback on the living room HTPC).
c. Playback on both is probably possible.

)p( · « **Reply #1 on:** June 03, 2009, 11:41:59 am »

Oh YESSSS!

I have asked for this a few times. I now use remote desktop to get close to the feel of having the native mc gui on a tablet, in my case the Nokia n800. With the introduction of the dropdown panes this has been working very well. But running the mc gui on the tablet itself would make it even more stable and user friendly. I will certainly use this feature when I upgrade my n800 to a new tablet. Perfect would be a tablet with a slightly larger screen then my n800 running windows 7 and a nice looking docking cradle for charging...

peter

AoXoMoXoA · « **Reply #2 on:** June 03, 2009, 12:45:45 pm »

we have only been asking for this type of function for like ages

Please! Yes!

This is perfect!

Pjotr · « **Reply #3 on:** June 03, 2009, 01:45:34 pm »

Good idea! At the moment I am running MC13 on a netbook as an audio player in the living room. It is connected to a NAS that stores my music data. Libraries are stored on the NAS as well. That serves me very well

But please resolve THIS (repeated HERE). Up to now not much action/reaction from the Citizens of the Universe

Something to take serious on a netbook with a limited screen area IMHO.

SeaDrive · « **Reply #4 on:** June 03, 2009, 01:50:15 pm »

I just asked about this last week. I think it would be a great feature!

newsposter · « **Reply #5 on:** June 03, 2009, 03:12:10 pm »

[//thick mode on//]

Why not use a remote terminal client to connect to the HTPC? If necessary, set up the remote session as another zone.

/think mode pause, awaiting input/

JimH · « **Reply #6 on:** June 03, 2009, 03:13:51 pm »

Quote from: newsposter on June 03, 2009, 03:12:10 pm

Why not use a remote terminal client to connect to the HTPC? If necessary, set up the remote session as another zone.

WAF. But, to each his/her own.

DiiPii · « **Reply #7 on:** June 03, 2009, 06:24:48 pm »

YES YES YES

could we also control vid playback (please)

MerlinWerks · « **Reply #8 on:** June 03, 2009, 07:41:57 pm »

I'd definitely be interested in this. I would have bought a netbook months ago if I could find one with the features I want (ASUS 1000HE) that comes in something other than a fingerprint-magnet glossy finish. The consumer electronics industry seems to have an obsession with piano black finishes that simply doesn't make sense. Sure it looks awesome, until you actually want to use it...

Sorry for the mini rant

Listener · « **Reply #9 on:** June 03, 2009, 08:05:56 pm »

I'd be very interested in this feature for audio. I'd use standard UI mode on the netbook or laptop to control playback on my music PC.

I'm using a 15.4" screen laptop as a remote control now. I use UltraVNC to take over control of my music PC. This works but it is quite clunky and doesn't handle remote control in several zones.

Bill

zxsix · « **Reply #10 on:** June 04, 2009, 07:12:52 pm »

Also this begs for some write access from the client.
Primarily for ratings but could expand to other tags.
Should be protected to similar prompt that happens when in a pane view and you click a checkbox and pane tagging is disabled, for protection to make sure no unwanted tag changes are made.
Also should respect the /READONLY switch on the command line so it could be blocked from certain workstations.

imugli · « **Reply #11 on:** June 04, 2009, 07:32:30 pm »

Could this support multiple instances? For instance, could I connect to and control MC instances on multiple HTPCs?

Am thinking...
Netbook (or TabletPC) in central area of house. Control what happens in Kids room (TURN THAT INFERNAL RACKET DOWN!) and start a movie in the lounge with all 3 using different PCs and instances of MC...

Then taking it one step further again, could I control the Zones connected to each instance. Eg. my lounge HTPC runs my external courtyard speakers off a separate zone.

JimH · « **Reply #12 on:** June 05, 2009, 06:21:48 am »

I split MrHaugen's post to a new thread called Netbook Remote and Multiple Zones.

Please use that thread for discussion of extending the remote to multiple zones, etc.

The first step is creation of a remote control. Nothing more. After that is working, we'll look at extending it.

Netbook Remote is a substitute for an ordinary remote, and intended for use from across the room.

There are many other use cases, like wall panels that can control the whole house. That's not the purpose of this change. Yet.

WinoOutWest · « **Reply #13 on:** June 05, 2009, 01:17:01 pm »

I would love this as well. Been an MC user since 9 and 95% of the time it is running on the living room HTPC/TV. I currently use NetRemote on multiple PDAs but this would be great! Especially if we could edit the tags/library. With the main library running constantly from 6am - 1am it is a PIA to update tags and work in MC from the couch. Edit capabilities for me would make this killer!

Cheers!

dcwebman · « **Reply #14 on:** June 05, 2009, 01:33:50 pm »

This definitely looks enticing, especially since I found a refurbished netbook online for about $180. That's the cost of a decent remote. Now make it control my other devices and I'll be happy!

fitbrit · « **Reply #15 on:** June 05, 2009, 02:28:01 pm »

Quote from: dcwebman on June 05, 2009, 01:33:50 pm

This definitely looks enticing, especially since I found a refurbished netbook online for about $180. That's the cost of a decent remote. Now make it control my other devices and I'll be happy!

Exactly what I was thinking! At the least it needs to be able to control my receiver's volume when watching movies (SPDIF/HDMI) or listening to music.

morrison · « **Reply #16 on:** June 05, 2009, 03:57:51 pm »

Good news. I use with MC many tablet devices

hit_ny · « **Reply #17 on:** June 05, 2009, 11:58:55 pm »

Quote from: newsposter on June 03, 2009, 03:12:10 pm

[//thick mode on//]

Why not use a remote terminal client to connect to the HTPC? If necessary, set up the remote session as another zone.

/think mode pause, awaiting input/

I've been doing this for many years now, it will still be faster in response time compared to the solution proposed.

But you can't do anything with the other PC which is what this proposal will supposedly solve ?

)p( · « **Reply #18 on:** June 06, 2009, 01:17:47 am »

Quote from: hit_ny on June 05, 2009, 11:58:55 pm

I've been doing this for many years now, it will still be faster in response time compared to the solution proposed.

But you can't do anything with the other PC which is what this proposal will supposedly solve ?

If its a windows pc you can also remote desktop and login under a different user. You can still use the pc as normal from a different account. That's how I have set it up.

peter

Daydream · « **Reply #19 on:** June 06, 2009, 01:56:46 am »

Quote from: )p( on June 06, 2009, 01:17:47 am

If its a windows pc you can also remote desktop an login under a different user. You can still use the pc as normal from a different account. That's how I have set it up.

peter

Windows PC is too generic. With a Windows Server OS you can do multiple RDP sessions. Otherwise you can't, unless you hack the Terminal Server libraries (on XP).

hit_ny · « **Reply #20 on:** June 06, 2009, 02:25:48 am »

Very good, so this proposal will be good for those with XP home then.

Is there anything else ?

ChrisRainman · « **Reply #21 on:** June 06, 2009, 02:34:24 am »

Great idea

Up to now I am still not happy with my "MC based home entertainment center" as there seems to be no external control device perfectly fitting to MC.

When adding such a feature, I would propose to also add a kind of "view manager". As netbooks normally have a small screen with a resolution of 1024x600 all my view schemes would not work on a netbook. And swtiching them or duplicating them with less columns is also a mess.

A solution with view modes allowing to switch to a completely new set of view schemes, split views etc. would solve this problem very easy.

I am pretty sure that this issue must apply for many users. My big screen for tagging and organizing MC stuff is 24". It's easy to imagine how my MC screen would look on a netbook...

JimH · « **Reply #22 on:** June 06, 2009, 06:51:14 am »

I've just posted an MC14 Preview on this board.

adamsp70 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 06, 2009, 10:28:01 am »

Absolutely bloody marvellous!

Worth the price of admission by itself.....

richard.e.morton · « **Reply #24 on:** June 06, 2009, 11:11:21 am »

It would be fantastic if this supported a touch interface, maybe a variation on the theatreview... this would enable MIDs to be used as a nice interface to MC.

swinster · « **Reply #25 on:** June 06, 2009, 12:45:31 pm »

Would this work on Windows Mobile OS? Could it be made to work on this OS?

I would like to see a simple hand held device with a touch screen used as a remote - such as the new generation of touch phones. I have just got an HTC Touch Diamond 2 and this would be ideal.

Netbooks are still far to clunky to be used as a remote - and certainly will NOT pass WAF!!!

Even though the touch phone remote would be good, maybe the best type of device would be a minimum 7" touch panel display. I would like to be able to get something like a Crestron or AMX touch panel, but without the ludicrous cost of these devices. Is there anything out there that would to the same job?

JimH · « **Reply #26 on:** June 06, 2009, 03:15:24 pm »

Quote from: swinster on June 06, 2009, 12:45:31 pm

Would this work on Windows Mobile OS? Could it be made to work on this OS?

Don't know. Probably not without modification, but we've been wondering the same thing.

Quote

I would like to see a simple hand held device with a touch screen used as a remote - such as the new generation of touch phones. I have just got an HTC Touch Diamond 2 and this would be ideal.

Theater View should work now with touch screens. iPhones are of course, the wrong OS.

Tolga · « **Reply #27 on:** June 06, 2009, 05:12:36 pm »

my two cents (sorry for repeation, haven't read all posts).

Scenario:

music stored at the server, accessed using cheap client computers:

Proposal:

The following functionalities should be combined seemlessly.

1. play the music at the server.
2. play music locally at the client.
3. (Optional) Send the music to another client.

Interface idea:
Those three options could be just different zones in the client computer.

More functionality:
The client user should be able to change tags/playlists in the server. (ideally only with additional write privileges)
There should be some mechanism to resolve change requests of multiple clients, but the first client should not
lock writing ability of other clients while being idle (I found that this was a problem in most MC 13 solutions).

JimH · « **Reply #28 on:** June 06, 2009, 05:50:11 pm »

Quote from: Tolga on June 06, 2009, 05:12:36 pm

Scenario:
music stored at the server, accessed using cheap client computers:
...

The following functionalities should be combined seemlessly.

1. play the music at the server.
2. play music locally at the client.

#2 has worked for many years, by running Library Server on the server and using MC's ability to connect to it.
#1 is what this thread is about.

Quote

3. (Optional) Send the music to another client.

I can't think why you would want that since the client can already use #2 above to connect to the server.

Quote

The client user should be able to change tags/playlists in the server. (ideally only with additional write privileges)

This is a difficult change because of multiple users.

GrantDG · « **Reply #29 on:** June 06, 2009, 06:47:21 pm »

Some shameless self promotion...

Have you seen this?

(Almost) Full remote control - with no need for a 2nd MC instance...

This includes full remote editing:

Quote from: Tolga on June 06, 2009, 05:12:36 pm

The client user should be able to change tags/playlists in the server. (ideally only with additional write privileges)

swinster · « **Reply #30 on:** June 06, 2009, 07:44:24 pm »

Quote from: Tolga on June 06, 2009, 05:12:36 pm

The client user should be able to change tags/playlists in the server. (ideally only with additional write privileges)
There should be some mechanism to resolve change requests of multiple clients, but the first client should not
lock writing ability of other clients while being idle (I found that this was a problem in most MC 13 solutions).

Quote from: JimH on June 06, 2009, 05:50:11 pm

This is a difficult change because of multiple users.

This is why a proper client/server structure needs to be employed, possibly running something like SQL for storing information.

JimH · « **Reply #31 on:** June 06, 2009, 07:51:41 pm »

SQL is not nearly fast enough. MC's database is tuned for media and for speed.

swinster · « **Reply #32 on:** June 07, 2009, 05:53:07 am »

Quote from: JimH on June 06, 2009, 07:51:41 pm

SQL is not nearly fast enough. MC's database is tuned for media and for speed.

Ok, but there has got to be an alternative to allow for true client server updates/edits with locking of records and roll-backs etc. I did look at Nexus DB as an embedded DB for a project a while back. I'm sure there are others

JimH · « **Reply #33 on:** June 07, 2009, 07:21:43 am »

Asus has a new Eee PC coming that looks like it would work well for this.

http://www.asus.com/News.aspx?N_ID=Qoky5bTcRplYluPj

[via Engadget.com]

JimH · « **Reply #34 on:** June 07, 2009, 08:24:46 am »

Here's a three minute demonstration video of how the remote works:

http://pix01.com/ub@ciM3

Pjotr · « **Reply #35 on:** June 07, 2009, 08:48:29 am »

Quote from: JimH on June 07, 2009, 07:21:43 am

Asus has a new Eee PC coming that looks like it would work well for this.

Yes it is

It would be great to run MC with a small touch screen EePC Netbook in Theatre view, or any other view specially adapted to a touch screen interface, either locally hooked to a server that stores the media or as a remote interface.

These Eee’s also come with a SSD. If you intend to promote them and write software for these things, please take into account the limited space on the C:/ disk. That means: Don’t store variable user data on C:/ and do not use the registry for variable user data (that can be better done with a proper .ini file IMHO). And oh yes, the small screen area. MC14 is still not adapted to it (or it is still not fixed ………….) After that is fixed these Netbooks are great with MC. But that are just details ...

swinster · « **Reply #36 on:** June 07, 2009, 12:54:27 pm »

Quote from: JimH on June 07, 2009, 07:21:43 am

Asus has a new Eee PC coming that looks like it would work well for this.

http://www.asus.com/News.aspx?N_ID=Qoky5bTcRplYluPj

[via Engadget.com]

I'd like to know the expected price of this. Can't think that its just a little bit overkill and I bet it will be in excess of £500.

Does anyone know of any cheaper alternatives?

BillT · « **Reply #37 on:** June 07, 2009, 03:55:32 pm »

The cheapest way to get a touch screen netbook would be to buy a touch screen from Hong Kong and fit it to a netbook yourself. You do need to be dextrous and prepared to take the risk of damaging the netbook though!

Another option would be the Samsung Q1 series. The original is no longer available but I think the Q1 ultra with a 1024 x 600 7" screen is still sold. Should be a bit less than £500. As a remote control they should be more usable than a netbook as they don't have a keyboard to get in the way.

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #38 on:** June 07, 2009, 05:22:33 pm »

I'm impressed with how well the machine on the right interfaces with the hob at the back.
How it knows that with certain music, I need a hot drink and starts heating the kettle

dgilgonzalez · « **Reply #39 on:** June 08, 2009, 03:11:17 am »

This is really a good idea!!!

When do you think it will be ready?

Daydream · « **Reply #40 on:** June 08, 2009, 03:19:18 am »

$675 if you convert the advertised price for the UK launch. No word yet when and how much it'll be in US.

Chad · « **Reply #41 on:** June 08, 2009, 10:47:16 am »

Quote from: swinster on June 07, 2009, 12:54:27 pm

I'd like to know the expected price of this. Can't think that its just a little bit overkill and I bet it will be in excess of £500.

Does anyone know of any cheaper alternatives?

Gigabyte has a smaller, older, cheaper alternative, the M912. Guy in my office has had one for several months, really nice piece of hardware.

swinster · « **Reply #42 on:** June 08, 2009, 04:44:33 pm »

Started looking at the Philips Pronto touch screen remote - but for £1500 no thank you.

What about the Archos 5 or 7 Internet Tablets - these run Linux so an MC remote service would need to be developed for Linux (although not sure how simple/possible this would be) - but they are also ** cool devices.

The Archos 5 can be had for just over £200 and the 7 for under £300

Stargazer · « **Reply #43 on:** June 08, 2009, 09:32:27 pm »

Hello Jim,

Ok..... I have been using 'NetRemote' from Promixis for remote control of MC from another desktop.

I had not planned on looking at MC14 since you said it was very early in development, but after reading this I had to take a look. I installed MC14, on both my media server (MS Home Server) and on my Win7RCx64 system.

And of course you know there are problems, but its off to a great start.

I would be using this feature every singe day, if it becomes a full feature.

Please add my vote to .. PLEASE work on this.

Thanks!!!
Doug

JimH · « **Reply #44 on:** June 09, 2009, 08:39:44 am »

Here's an example of what hardware will make possible in the next few years. (from engadget.com)

As a touchscreen remote, it could switch between displaying buttons and graphical information.

glynor · « **Reply #45 on:** June 09, 2009, 11:09:34 am »

I just thought I'd say a huge thanks. I haven't had time to fully investigate this yet (I've been having a crazy two weeks in the lead-up to leaving for a week long vacation for Bonnaroo), but this looks like exactly what I asked for over in that other thread.

So, I'll give you a preliminary and as-of-yet untested "Thanks a lot!"

Listener · « **Reply #46 on:** June 09, 2009, 12:57:41 pm »

Jim,

I tried the V14 preview Tremote feature. I think it will be useful to me. Thanks for adding a feature I and many others have requested and will enjoy.

There are some odd omissions in the preview:

- The playing now display on the remote PC doesn't show what's playing and with progress.

- The volume control slider and the Play/Pause and Stop buttons don't work.

- The display on the server PC does not change to fit what's displayed on the remote PC.

I'll be interested to see how the finished versions works.

Thanks again.

Bill

JimH · « **Reply #47 on:** June 09, 2009, 01:03:16 pm »

Quote from: Listener on June 09, 2009, 12:57:41 pm

Jim,

I tried the V14 preview Tremote feature. I think it will be useful to me. Thanks for adding a feature I and many others have requested and will enjoy.

There are some odd omissions in the preview:

- The playing now display on the remote PC doesn't show what's playing and with progress.

- The volume control slider and the Play/Pause and Stop buttons don't work.

- The display on the server PC does not change to fit what's displayed on the remote PC.

I'll be interested to see how the finished versions works.

Thanks again.

Bill

Bill,
Thanks for the feedback. Volume control should be working in the next build. Maybe a couple other things. It will probably take 4 or 5 builds to get it to the point where it's pretty useable.

Would you (or anyone else) please describe how you expect to use this? It might help us implement it more effectively.

Thanks,

Jim

DiiPii · « **Reply #48 on:** June 09, 2009, 01:44:21 pm »

well here's how I intend to use it:

Scenario 1) control audio output from my HTPC from the kitchen using my HP touchsmart that sits there

Scenario 2) use my Fujitsu tablet as a wifi remote from anywhere in my house

Listener · « **Reply #49 on:** June 09, 2009, 02:03:52 pm »

Quote from: JimH on June 09, 2009, 01:03:16 pm

Thanks for the feedback. Volume control should be working in the next build. Maybe a couple other things. It will probably take 4 or 5 builds to get it to the point where it's pretty useable.

Would you (or anyone else) please describe how you expect to use this? It might help us implement it more effectively.

At present, I (mostly) play music from one dedicated Music PC in my home office running MC 12. I have 3 zones defined in MC for 2 PCI soundcards and a USB audio device. Each audio device plays music in a different room: office, library and living room. In the office, I can use the use MC 12 directly. (Or my wife can use UltraVNC to operate the Music PC UI from her computer in the office.)

In the library. I currently use a laptop running UltraVNC to control the UI of the Music PC. I'd like to use the Tremote instead of a VNC client. From the Tremote, I need to be able to

- change from one view scheme to another to select music.

- Look at at the Playing Now list.

- Look at the Recently Ripped and Recently Imported lists to pick something I just got.

- See what's playing and how far along I am in the current selection. (duration and position.) I can't see the MusicPC from the library so I need the playing now info displayed on the Tremote.

- Use the Play/Pause and Stop buttons. I use that a lot. I occasionally use the Rewind, Fast Forward and the position slider to jump around in a file. I never use the volume control; it is always set at the max.

- Change the current zone from the office to the library. It would be a huge annoyance to have to walk back to the office to change the zone; I'll probably use the Tremote even without this feature but I'll be calling you names every time I have to get up and walk back to the office.

- Customize the Tremote menus so that I've got the same set of commands on the bottom menu that I have on MC on the Music PC.

Using the VNC client requires fairly frequent horizontal and vertical scrolling to see all of the screen image on the Music PC. I think that the Tremote should fit properly on the laptop screen. I'd also expect UI actions to be smoother and less clunky with the Tremote as opposed to the VNC client.

I think that my wife might use the Tremote. The VNC client is just too techy and clunky for her to use.

--- my advanced wish list
It would be very worthwhile to be able to use more than one Tremote with each one controlling playback on a different zone. I realize that this might be in a later, more ambitious project but I'm reporting what I'd use.

It would also have great value to me to be able to fix any tag error from the Tremote. I find that being able to fix a tag error immediately makes the editing process painless. I realize that this functionality gets into the multi-user issue.

Bill

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Author Topic: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote (Read 101536 times)