Topic: Tree in MC14 (Read 5357 times)

dcwebman · « **on:** June 09, 2009, 07:30:16 am »

We have a nice clean tree now in MC14. My question is what is the most used item in that tree? I would dare say that it is Playing Now. If that is the consensus, then please move it to the top of the tree. Then users can find it easier and I can remove my Playing Now items in my toolbars.

zxsix · « **Reply #1 on:** June 09, 2009, 07:26:04 pm »

How about the ability to rearrange the main branch order by drag/drop or an options menu in the settings screen?
Then to each their own?

Also would like to have the Playing Now branch for each zone available in the tree.

Playing Now
- Zone 2 (Living Room)
- Zone 3 (Pool Patio)
- Zone 4 (Garage)
- Zone 5 (Master Bedroom)

ThoBar · « **Reply #2 on:** June 09, 2009, 07:54:21 pm »

Yep, for me, playing now should be at the top.

Also, isn't it time we rip Television out from under Drives and devices?

bennyd · « **Reply #3 on:** June 10, 2009, 05:14:31 am »

I totally agree that it should be at the top

park · « **Reply #4 on:** June 10, 2009, 06:19:19 am »

I'm not seeing any animation in the tree. I was expecting to see items smoothly expanding and collapsing. Instead, things just seem to jump around.

Also, there must be a better way of expand a viewscheme to show the child viewschemes than that tiny little twirly arrow. Maybe we could ditch the indents on the viewschemes (since the are already differentiated by different icons to the root items of the tree) and there could be a down arrow at the right edge of each viewscheme to signify it has children. A second click anwywhere on that viewscheme title would cause it to expand.

I'd say the media types need an icon or something on them too. Or mabe they could be pure graphics with no text labels.

JimH · « **Reply #5 on:** June 10, 2009, 06:51:12 am »

Quote from: park on June 10, 2009, 06:19:19 am

I'm not seeing any animation in the tree. I was expecting to see items smoothly expanding and collapsing. Instead, things just seem to jump around.

Scrolling is animated now.

Berto · « **Reply #6 on:** June 10, 2009, 12:17:21 pm »

Quote from: confishy on June 09, 2009, 07:54:21 pm

Yep, for me, playing now should be at the top.

Also, isn't it time we rip Television out from under Drives and devices?

I fully agree!

marko · « **Reply #7 on:** June 10, 2009, 02:19:34 pm »

Back when v12 was just a baby, I was quite vociferous about this. 'Playing Now' jumping around in the tree was rather irritating at the time, and there was a thread similar to this one simmering away nicely.

I have to say though, I've gotten quite used to the media type filters being at the top. I placed a 'Playing Now' button on my toolbar, and better than that, I learned the Alt+2 keyboard shortcut, both methods take me directly to Playing Now, and are extremely easy to locate and use.

-marko.

johnnyboy · « **Reply #8 on:** June 10, 2009, 05:49:10 pm »

I agree about being able to re-arrange the tree.
I've been re-naming my view schemes to::

1. blah
2. blah new
3. blah whatever

purely so I can get them in the order I want them - I'd REALLY like to be able to just drag re-order the items in the tree into the order I want them in.
I dont see a down side to this?

MrHaugen · « **Reply #9 on:** June 11, 2009, 05:31:15 am »

When we are touching the subject I first want to ask a question. WHY have the icons of Audio, Video and Images been removed??
Visual representation of something is not often a bad thing. Any good reasons why it has been removed?

Over to the topic of discussion here, I think that the placement of Playing Now is just fine as it is. Library parts is the major stuff here and should always be at the top imo.

One idea I like very much is this one though:

Quote from: zxsix on June 09, 2009, 07:26:04 pm

Playing Now
- Zone 2 (Living Room)
- Zone 3 (Pool Patio)
- Zone 4 (Garage)
- Zone 5 (Master Bedroom)

It would make it a lot easier to switch zones and add tracs etc. to one zone.

Stargazer · « **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2009, 10:59:58 pm »

Just a thought.... You can customize the top menu bar. I have been adding the 'Playing Now' option to the end of the menu bar since I think at least MC 12. Easy access.

dcwebman · « **Reply #11 on:** August 19, 2009, 07:04:29 am »

I have to bring this up again, sorry. With the possibility of another item in the tree above Playing Now, Playing Now is buried in the middle of the tree. Forget the workarounds like putting Playing Now in the menu bar. To have a really clean look, especially for the new user, Playing Now needs to be the first item in the tree. Or as others have suggested, give the ability to rearrange the major items in the tree. Please.

hit_ny · « **Reply #12 on:** August 19, 2009, 09:31:07 am »

Quote from: marko on June 10, 2009, 02:19:34 pm

I learned the Alt+2 keyboard shortcut

This is the main way for me to get to PN for a very long time now.

Using the tree to get there is waay too slow

rossp · « **Reply #13 on:** August 20, 2009, 03:34:57 am »

+1 for television button

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #14 on:** August 20, 2009, 07:36:45 am »

Quote from: MrHaugen on June 11, 2009, 05:31:15 am

When we are touching the subject I first want to ask a question. WHY have the icons of Audio, Video and Images been removed??

I preferred them being there to. I'd have preferred to have moved away from the tree and have an icon driven system or at least make the tree less used.
Maybe even an apple iphone menu type system.
In my opinion the icons were something that made MC12 look more modern than previous editions.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #15 on:** August 20, 2009, 08:14:42 am »

Quote from: Mr ChriZ on August 20, 2009, 07:36:45 am

I preferred them being there to. I'd have preferred to have moved away from the tree and have an icon driven system or at least make the tree less used.
Maybe even an apple iphone menu type system.
In my opinion the icons were something that made MC12 look more modern than previous editions.

Yes. Icons, and graphics in general, looks a lot better than piles of text. A system with icons might be a hit. Works better for touch screen as well. A default with icons, and a way to switch to text mode would even make the ones that needs other categories happy I think.

Matt · « **Reply #16 on:** August 20, 2009, 11:52:48 am »

Regarding the look of the tree, we're open to ideas. Please post (or send to matt at jriver dot com) any mockups.

It must remain functional and have text. Overlays, buttonization, spacing, grouping, etc. are all possible.

Thanks.

Tanguero · « **Reply #17 on:** August 20, 2009, 12:15:41 pm »

Quote from: zxsix on June 09, 2009, 07:26:04 pm

How about the ability to rearrange the main branch order by drag/drop or an options menu in the settings screen?
Then to each their own?

I'd love to have that.

eba · « **Reply #18 on:** August 20, 2009, 05:18:34 pm »

I've been wanting an option to hide the tree permanently, and have the action window slide out independently since ages ago. I absolutely hate trees, so personally I'd like to see it put in a tree museum and replaced with a parking lot

Here's my quote from the MC13 idle gossip thread...

Quote from: eba on December 20, 2007, 05:23:14 pm

....

why couldn't everything in the tree be shown like this?
Quick mockup:

This would give a separate selector for every view [so it wouldn't be so easy to change the wrong one if using multiple columns or rows], and would save space usually taken up by the tree.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #19 on:** August 21, 2009, 02:08:13 am »

This would be great for those that use columns or rows with for example library and playing now. I do not believe this should be a default, but it would be neat if such an alternative existed.

Listener · « **Reply #20 on:** August 21, 2009, 11:30:16 am »

Another alternative for easy access to Playing Now: Add it to the bottom toolbar menu. (Right click on the toolbar/status area at the bottom of the MC window to customize the toolbar.)

My bottom toolbar menu has

Recently Imported
Zones
Import
Rip Disc
tag
Playing Now

I use icons + text but icons only might suit others.

I'd like to add a Library button but the customize toolbar dialog doesn't offer that choice at present.

Bill

bunglemebaby · « **Reply #21 on:** August 21, 2009, 12:31:27 pm »

Quote

Regarding the look of the tree, we're open to ideas.

For my preferences, the tree is already pretty close to what I want. My only real thoughts on changing/updating it are:
-Allow customization of the ordering. The order/placement preference really is a personal thing, there's no two ways around it.
-Allow icons (preferably customizable ones) on the root level views.

In terms of something new altogether, I could also see some merit to a completely icon driven navigation system on the left there. I'm thinking similar to the way drilling down into a cover art based view scheme works now. (for example now: List of genres, choose a genre get a list of Artists, choose and artist get a list of albums, etc) Now change that over to a hierarchy of view schemes. It's still very tree like in nature, but would allow for big beautiful icons to be used instead of all text based selections. I can imagine there'd be a few kinks to work out in something like this, but it could yield some nice eye candy and it would feel pretty similar to navigating in Windows Explorer without the "folders" tree open.

As I mentioned though, I'm most interested in being able to more fully customize the tree that's there now. It's already functional, but when I'm trying to find my full album view scheme late at night it can sometimes make my eyes go googoo...

-JB

leezer3 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 21, 2009, 05:52:09 pm »

Perhaps a slightly random observation, but I'm sure there are others who simply don't use Playing Now, thus dumping it at the top is a PITA

I'm all for allowing re-arrangement of *everything* in the tree, and the ability to add custom icons to any entry would be nice too.

-Leezer-

dcwebman · « **Reply #23 on:** August 24, 2009, 07:56:41 am »

Quote from: leezer3 on August 21, 2009, 05:52:09 pm

Perhaps a slightly random observation, but I'm sure there are others who simply don't use Playing Now, thus dumping it at the top is a PITA

I'm all for allowing re-arrangement of *everything* in the tree, and the ability to add custom icons to any entry would be nice too.

How can you use MC without using Playing Now? Everything goes through there including images. But regardless, allowing re-arrangement of the tree by the user is the preferred way to go.

Listener · « **Reply #24 on:** August 24, 2009, 10:05:16 am »

Quote from: eba on August 20, 2009, 05:18:34 pm

I've been wanting an option to hide the tree permanently, and have the action window slide out independently since ages ago. I absolutely hate trees, so personally I'd like to see it put in a tree museum and replaced with a parking lot

Here's my quote from the MC13 idle gossip thread...

I like this idea of adding Audio to the dropdowns at the top. Then you could simply hide the tree and leave it hidden. This seems to be a simple improvement that does not take away the tree view for those who want it.

I don't use the action windows at all so I'd like to be rid of it.

I use the Tag window for all my tagging work so I'd like to leave it permanently visible and available.

Bill

leezer3 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 24, 2009, 11:14:02 am »

Quote from: dcwebman on August 24, 2009, 07:56:41 am

How can you use MC without using Playing Now? Everything goes through there including images. But regardless, allowing re-arrangement of the tree by the user is the preferred way to go.

Hitting the Play button

I have absolutely no need to access Playing Now when everything is run from my library views and playlists. Yes, MC uses it internally, but I have no need to click on it!

-Leezer-

hit_ny · « **Reply #26 on:** August 25, 2009, 01:37:59 am »

Quote from: leezer3 on August 24, 2009, 11:14:02 am

Hitting the Play button
I have absolutely no need to access Playing Now when everything is run from my library views and playlists. Yes, MC uses it internally, but I have no need to click on it!

Isn't it more work to do it this way ?..unless you use another master playlist of sorts.

With PN you just queue stuff up and forget.

Quote from: Listener on August 24, 2009, 10:05:16 am

I don't use the action windows at all so I'd like to be rid of it.

I use the Tag window for all my tagging work so I'd like to leave it permanently visible and available.

Isn't AW the tagging window ?

MrHaugen · « **Reply #27 on:** August 25, 2009, 02:25:59 am »

Quote from: hit_ny on August 25, 2009, 01:37:59 am

Isn't AW the tagging window ?

The tagging IS not the action window, but it's contained in the AW. At least that's what I thought.

I like the idea of a drop down list my self, but it would introduce a few problems. 1. Drag and Drop sync window would be gone. 2. Tagging Window would be gone. Things would now need one more click. Some of this could be fixed with having those windows on the left of the screen when these options is used only.

I'm kind of thinking more about a tree menu with more icons and better categories my self though. I'll see if I can make an example when I get that HTC Hero Android phone. Maybe it'll give me some ideas.

park · « **Reply #28 on:** September 23, 2009, 12:44:35 pm »

Quote from: eba on August 20, 2009, 05:18:34 pm

I've been wanting an option to hide the tree permanently, and have the action window slide out independently since ages ago. I absolutely hate trees, so personally I'd like to see it put in a tree museum and replaced with a parking lot

Here's my quote from the MC13 idle gossip thread...

I like the action window as a graphical ui. I wouldnt want to see it disappear into a menu. I think that the tree/ action window "pane" has a lot of uses, but it's stuck in the "windows explorer" era. Its' items need to glow, expand/contract, have related actions all grouped into the same place etc.

One example of what I mean:
Click on a viewscheme. The view updates, but then the tree becomes almost instantly redundant, until you want to change view again.

Here's what could happen.
Hover over a viewscheme item and it gives you a popup thumbnail showing you what kind of view it is (Tiles view, panes, 3D) and how many albums are in it. Maybe even how it is sorted.
Click to select the view. The title expands with the previous info on it, plus the "View as" and "Sort by" links. The "View as" menu might not even need to be a menu. It could actually show a list of the categories as links so you start your browsing right there.

One more example:
You click on the Performer store item, and it expands to show some links like "Recently played" "Favorites" "Recently searched" etc.

Finally...
The library tools are one of MC's biggest selling points. They are just so old that we forget how central they are to new users who are doing a lot of organization to their library. They need to have their own entry in the action window. New users need to see graphically that there are ways to move things around on your hard drive without leaving MC, and those tools for getting cover art etc.

park · « **Reply #29 on:** September 23, 2009, 12:48:28 pm »

One last thing...

At the bottom of the list of views (underneath the "Connected media" view) there should be one more item called "...Create new view".

At the moment, we have to right click on an existing view and then click on "Add a new view" which is a bit weird. "Add new view" needs it's own space.

Listener · « **Reply #30 on:** September 23, 2009, 01:09:33 pm »

A number of people have described how they use MC UI features and how they want the UI to look and operate. Those people do not agree. I think the right conclusion is that we need more ability to customize the UI.

If i could customize the UI more, I would immediately

- move ripping status info into the device view - no more little window that obscures the tagging window.

- send the action window to Siberia.

- keep the Tag Window visible all the time.

- prune the tree as I wish.

- Add a button to change libraries in the bottom toolbar.

That's a start. I'd love to keep refining the UI as new ideas came to my mind. When I update to a new version of MC, I'd want all my customizations to be transferred automatically.

I'd like to make UI just right for me without forcing my changes on anyone else. I certainly don't want to live with someone else's idea of improvements that make the UI worse for me.

Bill

JimH · « **Reply #31 on:** September 23, 2009, 01:18:37 pm »

Quote from: Listener on September 23, 2009, 01:09:33 pm

- prune the tree as I wish.

You can do that now with Options/General/Advanced/Features.

And ... you've hurt the Action Window's feelings.

Listener · « **Reply #32 on:** September 24, 2009, 01:12:09 am »

Quote from: JimH on September 23, 2009, 01:18:37 pm

You can do that now with Options/General/Advanced/Features.

I'd like to do more. For example, After I removed television under devices, I have only my DVD drive. I want to promote it so that it is always visible rather than being tucked under devices.

I'd like to remove the Performer Store line.

Under services and plug-ins, I like to remove all the stores and last.fm.

Quote from: JimH on September 23, 2009, 01:18:37 pm

And ... you've hurt the Action Window's feelings.

Poor baby.

Bill

kurushi · « **Reply #33 on:** September 24, 2009, 01:28:16 am »

Hi
I'm agree icons are more easy and clean but i don't like the old icons maybe an option to choose them? specially in the computer tree.

bunglemebaby · « **Reply #34 on:** September 24, 2009, 06:06:06 am »

Quote

I'd like to remove the Performer Store line.

Under services and plug-ins, I like to remove all the stores and last.fm.

You can do both of these now. I forget where the Performer check box is, but I've seen the options path posted around here someplace. The stores and last.fm can be removed via the plug-in manager. There are show/hide options for any of the plugins visible in the tree.

Quote

I'd like to do more. For example, After I removed television under devices, I have only my DVD drive. I want to promote it so that it is always visible rather than being tucked under devices.

On the converse it probably makes sense for some people to have Television promoted and the DVD drive buried away.

I guess what gets me about the tree customizing thing, is that with so many things customizable to exterme extents in MC why is this something that isn't (yes, it is a little customizable)? Clearly the tree isn't a make or break feature (or...it works ok as is) but it is one of the most commonly used features for man MC users and it would seem that everybody using it has their own take on what works well and doesn't. I don't think I actually had an explicit point here, so I'll just stop now.

-JB

JimH · « **Reply #35 on:** September 24, 2009, 06:53:00 am »

Quote from: Listener on September 24, 2009, 01:12:09 am

I'd like to do more. For example, After I removed television under devices, I have only my DVD drive. I want to promote it so that it is always visible rather than being tucked under devices.

I'd like to remove the Performer Store line.

Under services and plug-ins, I like to remove all the stores and last.fm.

You can "remove" Performer and other stores in the Plug-in Manager by using "Hide".

Listener · « **Reply #36 on:** September 24, 2009, 04:10:57 pm »

Quote from: JimH on September 24, 2009, 06:53:00 am

You can "remove" Performer and other stores in the Plug-in Manager by using "Hide".

Thanks, Jim. I removed some more stuff.

There is some stuff in Options/General/Advanced/Features that I am reluctant to uncheck because I don't understand what the effect will be. I've tried searching the Wiki but it seems to be incomplete and out of date.

I think that MC would be much more accessible if you could customize the tree with a direct and uniform method. (for example, right click on a menu item and choose "Hide" from the context menu.)

---
I have been trying to turn off tree browsing too. I struggled for awhile before understanding that I wanted to uncheck "Support browsing" in the customize view dialog and leave "Allow Tree selection" checked.

For me, it is very attractive to get a program to work the way I want it to. Such customization is at the top of my wish list for every program I use. Better documentation is the next item on the list (Providing an explanation of the program's conceptual framework and providing detailed how-tos are usually needed more than improvements to individual command documention.)

Bill

glynor · « **Reply #37 on:** September 24, 2009, 06:51:33 pm »

You're clearly wrong.

The Tree is awesome.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Tree in MC14 (Read 5357 times)