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Author Topic: Quiet HTPC guide  (Read 5228 times)

Siafu11

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Quiet HTPC guide
« on: July 29, 2009, 09:20:22 pm »

I've glanced around the hardware forums a few times and saw numerous questions here and there about HTPC hardware, software, etc. Hopefully I can add some insight about setting up an HTPC based off my own experiences.

I'll start with my current setup, how I got there, and struggles I've had with the initial configuration. Most of you could probably skip this part.

Hardware:
Thermalrock Mystic case (a carry-over from the previous media center -- no longer sold, and for some good reasons).
Athalon 4850e.
Gigabyte 780g motherboard (780g was touted for having great energy saving capabilities -- but I've yet to be convinced of that).
4gb corsair XMS2 ram.
Hauppage TV tuner (which I have yet to actually use...).
2x WD Green 1tb hard drives (one for media, one for backup).
1 G.skill 64gb solid state drive (windows partition, programs, etc).
LG Blu-ray player.
Sapphire 4830 w/ accelero heatsink.
Zen 400 fanless power supply.
Scythe Ninja Mini CPU cooler.
2x Noctua 92mm fans.
2x Noctua 80mm fans.
ATI Remote wonder II.
Logitech DiNovo Mini.
Logitech gamepad.

Software:
WinXP 32 bit.
MC13.
Eventghost.
Speedfan.
Prime95 (To verify max. temps. won't get out of hand).
FurMark (Same as above)

Goals:
Silent or near-silent.
Low idle power consumption (I leave it on 24/7).
Perfect home theater integration (meaning you can do nearly everything from the 10-ft interface....I have yet to actually achieve this).
Some gaming capabilities.
Make cable TV obsolete/save on some monthly payments. (a little ambitious, but with sites like hulu, should be possible. Again, haven't really achieved this).

My idea of a perfect media center is something that can replace DVR (and possibly cable TV altogether), any console gaming system, and any dvd/cd player. Unfortunatly, that is a bit out of reach at this point in time.

Putting it together:
My old case had two 60mm fan slots. I previously had silen-x in those slots, but they were not quiet enough. I realized that silent 60mm fans simply do not exist, and left those slots open. Initially, I only had a CPU fan in the case, but the temps got out of hand. I blame this partly on the rather warm-running 4830. After about 2 weeks of tweaking, I ended up with 4 fans total. One in front of the power supply, one intake fan, one on the CPU, and one to cool the video card. My motherboard only has 2 fan headers that are capable of controlling fan speed, so two fans are connected via a splitter into one header, and the other two fans into the other header. The accelero cooler was simply massive and too tall to fit in my case, so I had to remove a few fins and bend the heat pipes at the top. The case did not exactly. The CPU cooler was also in the way of a support brace, so I had to "revise" the case a bit with a pair of channellocks. There was also not a spot for a fan in front of the power supply (which also ran a bit warm, being fanless), or the video card, which was initially intended to run fanless. So I added some furhter "revisions" to mount the fans. Needless to say, this project turned into a month-long hackjob.
The decision for the solid state drive came about because of two reasons, neither being speed. My current hard drive ran warm, and actually competed for space with the motherboards 24 pin header. Enter the SSD. It was the size of a 2.5" laptop drive, and produced absolutely no heat, thus added no heat to the system. I realized early on that I had to be aware of each component that contributes to the overall heat buildup of a low-airflow system.
After the hardware was done, it was time to set up the software.
Speedfan is a very important tool when it comes to creating a silent system that still has adequate cooling when needed. I set it up to disable two fans (power supply and intake fan) unless a certain component hits 60 degrees C. The other two fans go down to 40% speed on system idle (keeping the system temp at 55 degrees C, some may argue that this is pretty warm, and it is, but I am confidient that it is well within spec. of the components inside). This keeps the system silent enough that you cannot hear it unless you walk within a meter of it and listen closely.
Eventghost is a macro program. I use this to integrate the Remote Wonder II with MC13. I also use it to switch between displays and close internet pages that are opened through MC13. I plan on also using it to load/close video games, when I get to that point. So that is basically what my setup consists of right now. The only video game I have tried out so far is GRID, which can be played on high res, low settings, and in my opinion still looks better than Xbox360 graphics, thanks to 4x antialiasing, which I don't believe the xbox360 employs.
Overall, the system sucks down about 70 watts while idle or playing music. I don't have it go to sleep mode because I also have squeezecenter on that system and a squeezebox in my bedroom that I play music through at night.



Onto the actual guide....

Let me start by saying that http://www.silentpcreview.com/ is an incredibly useful resource when it comes to these kinds of systems, especially when it comes to picking out silent hardware (power supplies, video cards, fans, etc).


Hardware

Motherboards
Right now I would recommend against using an intel Atom board, with the exception of possibly the nVidia Ion platform. This is because most common Atom platforms cannot play 1080 video without stutter. The other major downside to this is Adobe flash. The Atom simply does not handle flash content very well, especially video. I do not have any personal experience with the Via Nano processor, so I can't comment on that. It is meant as a competitor to the Atom. The key difference I can see is that the Nano platform supports PCI-e expansion slots. If you wanted to add a video card to circumvent the 1080 playback issue, that is do-able, but remember that both platforms only support one useful expansion slot, so you must make a choice between an audio card and a video card.
Aside from that, any ATX, microATX, or itx board is up to personal preferences. As long as the motherboard supports cool'n'quiet mode (or whatever intel's alternative is), S3, or c1e you should be fine. Those are all power saving options that will save on the monthly electric bill. If you plan on using onboard graphics, I believe nVidia chipsets are the way to go, as most of those are able to output surround sound through HDMI. Current ATI onboard graphics only output 2 channel through HDMI. Not sure about intel.
Also be mindful if how many fan headers have the voltage/PWM modulation. The more the better, otherwise you may have to resort to a fan cable splitter.

Processors
Anything that has a low TDP rating will work. Remember that this not only sucks down less power, but also minimizes the processors heat contribution to the rest of the system, which may open up options for a fanless CPU cooler. I believe even low end sempron/celerons can play back 1080, as most of that content is offloaded onto the graphics chip these days.

Video
Onboard will suffice as long as you don't plan on playing games or doing anything 3d intensive. If you planned on playing some games, I would recommend the 4770. Nvidia users can speak up for what their best alternative is, but I believe it would be somewhere in the GTS 250 range. Try to avoid ones with reference cooling designs, as they are generally the loudest. If your motherboard doesn't have onboard graphics, then the very low end ATI 4380 or nVidia 9600gt will be more than enough. I'd recommend finding one that is fanless, to take the guesswork out of potential fan noise.

Audio
I can't make any recommendations here. I personally use the onboard spdif optical connector, and that works fine for me. The issue I have with the current lineup of audio cards is the drivers. Every one of them seems to have some sort of driver problem, or compatibility issue, or simply loses driver support entirely over time.

Ram
At least 2gb DDR2. Pretty simple here.

Hard Drive
Again, personal preference. If you can afford an SSD and keep most of your media on a NAS, go with that. It has a small footprint and adds no heat to the system.

Power supply
Anything that is 80 plus certified to save power consumption. Especially if you leave the HTPC on all the time. Check http://www.silentpcreview.com/ for the most silent. Anything above 400W is most likely unnecessary.

Case
Any case that has 120mm fans slots is best. At a minimum, 92mm fans. 80mm silent fans do not provide enough airflow to be effective, unless you are using a very low wattage system. If you have a mini-itx case, a silent 80mm fan may be acceptable, as those systems generally have much less power consumption than an ATX system.

Fans
Avoid 60mm and below completely. They provide minimal airflow at maximum noise. 120mm fans are ideal. I would recommend any Noctua, Panaflo (Rexus fans on Newegg), Nexus, or Scythe S-flex fans. Most other "silent" fan brands are not truely silent, have overrated airflow ratings, or are generally unreliable.

CPU/GPC coolers
Aftermarker is always better than stock. If you can get away with fanless, use it. I would especially recommend aftermarket coolers that let you swap fans, in case the aftermarket fan is also too loud for your liking.


Software

MC 13/14
No explaination necessary...

Speedfan
This program lets you control fan speeds based on system temperatures reported by the motherboard. It is essential for a quiet HTPC. With the system idle, use speedfan to adjust the fan speeds to the maximum temperature you are comfortable with running your system at 24/7.

Prime95/Furmark
You only need this software for the initial setup. Use these to stress the system 100% and monitor temperatures. Use speedfan to adjust fan speeds so you obtain the maximum system temperature you are comfortable with. Your system will probably never be stressed this hard, but it is good to be cautious, and find the maximum fan speed you need under these conditions.

Eventghost
This is an ideal program for remote integration. You can set your remote to do anything that can be commanded via hotkeys, and also do some more advanced things. For example, I use it to get around a MC glitch that occurs when switching displays of different resolutions by minimizing MC, swapping displays, waiting about 10 seconds or so for my TV to auto-adjust to the new input, and maximizing MC back to theater mode.


Hope this helps! Good luck on your next HTPC build.....
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newsposter

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Re: Quiet HTPC guide
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2009, 10:24:31 pm »

you contradict yourself about a half-dozen times between motherboards, cpu, and video.
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Siafu11

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Re: Quiet HTPC guide
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2009, 07:02:07 am »

I am not sure what contradictions you are seeing, but perhaps some parts could be more clear.

This was intended as a universal guide, so I tried to cover all bases.
So for example, if you wanted to play games on your HTPC, you should go with an ATI 4770 or nVidia GTS 250. If games aren't your thing, stick with onboard graphics. If you already have a motherboard you want to use that doesn't have onboard, then just get a low-end, fanless video card.
Another example: if you want a small HTPC, then mini-itx is the way to go. Otherwise, most HTPC cases take microATX.
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JimH

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Re: Quiet HTPC guide
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 07:06:50 am »

Thanks very much for taking time to write this up and post it.
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benn600

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Re: Quiet HTPC guide
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2009, 12:14:56 pm »

Quote
MC 13/14
No explaination necessary...

Could you elaborate a bit?


 ;D
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Daydream

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Re: Quiet HTPC guide
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2009, 04:09:13 pm »

Right now I would recommend against using an intel Atom board, with the exception of possibly the nVidia Ion platform.

Indeed I would say this Zotac would do the trick.
If only somebody could clearly confirm if the GeForce 9400 integrated on that platform does 7.1 PCM over HDMI.
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newsposter

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Re: Quiet HTPC guide
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2009, 04:30:26 pm »

intel atom and nvidia ion are separate platforms.  separate cpus and chipsets.  different manufacturers. not a good idea to say 'no atoms with the exception of an nvidia ion'.  ??  The gpu comparison is similarly confused.

Intel released (about 3 months ago) a dual core atom that does a very, very nice job with media streaming.  The original single core atom is getting a little long in the tooth (as embedded systems go) but at the faster clock speeds, there isn't much it can't do (including 1080p).

As far as cases go, I've used this model for the past 3-4 builds;

http://www.apextechusa.com/products.asp?pID=144

nice looking, nice airflow, good power supply, nice and quiet.
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Siafu11

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Re: Quiet HTPC guide
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2009, 07:24:10 pm »

intel atom and nvidia ion are separate platforms.  separate cpus and chipsets.  different manufacturers.

nVidia Ion is just an Atom processor paired with a 9400M northbridge. As far as I know, all other manufacturers of Atom boards use some variation of Intel's 945G northbridge, which uses Intel's GMA950 graphics chipset. The specific Atom model used on each platform varies from manufactuer to manufacturer. Refer to http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-ion-atom,2153-9.html for information regarding 1080 playback, and note that the review is using a single core atom. Also, according to Adobe, Flash 10 utilizes hardware acceleration, so the Ion platform should also handle that better.

Intel released (about 3 months ago) a dual core atom that does a very, very nice job with media streaming.  The original single core atom is getting a little long in the tooth (as embedded systems go) but at the faster clock speeds, there isn't much it can't do (including 1080p).

I can't speak for the dual core Atom. Do you have any benchmarks/reviews/videos that proves this can handle 1080p and high def. flash videos without stutter? Also, I have never seen a retail motherboard offering any Atom above the 1.6ghz clock speed. If you know of a retail motherboard that offers a 2.0ghz Atom, or know of a motherboard that lets you overclock it to that speed without a voltage bump or significant heat increase, let us know. This is also something I would like to see some benchmarks/reviews/videos of.

Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely nothing against Atom systems. They are good at what they are intended for -- the netbook market. I have a Lenovo S10 laptop (that uses Intel's Atom platform) I use on a daily basis. However, given my experiences with the laptop, this is where I came to the conclusion that the Atom platform is unsuitable for HTPC use. The dual core may be a game-changer -- I don't know.

The gpu comparison is similarly confused.

The guide wasn't intended to compare GPUs, simply suggest a setup based on the system builder's requirements.

Indeed I would say this Zotac would do the trick.
If only somebody could clearly confirm if the GeForce 9400 integrated on that platform does 7.1 PCM over HDMI.

I agree, that system does look ideal for a small HTPC. When you buy it, be sure to give us some input on your experiences.   ;D

Could you elaborate a bit?


 ;D


That must have been a typo, I meant to say itunes.  ::)
Seriously though (and maybe I'm just too picky), I think it would be nearly impossible to create a fully-featured, seamlessly integrated HTPC without MC and Eventghost. All the other media center software seems to need some pretty heavy modification before it reaches the seamless integration point.

Thanks very much for taking time to write this up and post it.
You're welcome. Hopefully this is helpful to everyone here. I think there would be decent market demand for a pre-configured HTPC that provides out-of-box home theater integration. If only someone would create a retail product like this....*hint hint*
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JimH

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Re: Quiet HTPC guide
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2009, 07:44:48 pm »

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Magic_Randy

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Re: Quiet HTPC guide
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2009, 09:16:03 pm »

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JimH

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Re: Quiet HTPC guide
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2009, 07:16:31 am »

Active but slow moving.
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Magic_Randy

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Re: Quiet HTPC guide
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2009, 08:43:14 am »

Active but slow moving.

Maybe for Christmas. ;D
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Messiahs

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Re: Quiet HTPC guide
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2009, 11:49:57 am »

Maybe 780g is not the best choice (2d performace bug & deinterlacing)... perhaps better wait for 785G.


first small test:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3599&p=1
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