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[datdude]

1) Make Performer available from Theater View
2) Add in Last.fm like (not necessarily from last.fm) radio functionality that streams relevant recommendations from Peformer to me.
3) The streams should allow customizable channels based on genres/moods/tags
4) Should be tailored to play music not in my local MC Library.  If I play music from Performer, it should know what I like but only play music I don't have.
5) And of course have the ability at any time to download the song.

That would be the killer music subscription service for me.

[darichman]

I'm very keen, but am not in the US... I'm a bit hesitant to try a proxy.

I know you'll have an official line on this, and I'll bet getting licenses for global distribution would be an absolute nightmare. Are there any future plans for developing this beyond the US?

[JimH]

I know you'll have an official line on this, and I'll bet getting licenses for global distribution would be an absolute nightmare. Are there any future plans for developing this beyond the US?

No comment, but don't say I've said that.  I'll have to deny it.

[darichman]

I'll try to keep it under wraps.....

[raym]

Same here... I won't say a word  .  Sadly, a bit useless to me too while only available in the U.S. but here's hoping......

[ThoBar]

I'm very keen, but am not in the US... I'm a bit hesitant to try a proxy.

I know you'll have an official line on this, and I'll bet getting licenses for global distribution would be an absolute nightmare. Are there any future plans for developing this beyond the US?

If someone would like to PM me with a decent proxy, I'd be your friend for life

[JimH]

If someone would like to PM me with a decent proxy, I'd be your friend for life

Did you try a direct connect?  Not that it would work ....

[park]

I too will try it when it comes to MC14. There is not a single alternative mp3 store to itunes in Japan. Not one.

[park]

Some Feedback:

1. Since the web page is quite sparse, it seems the real power in browsing the store lies in the category drop down boxes. I didnt even notice them until I started searching for a better way to browse the store. I think the need to be more prominant.
If it were possible, the best way to browse the store for me would be using library views. Seeing pages of cover art rather than long lists of text would encourage me to click on different artists and albums.
If not possible then perhaps you could have the category panes docked in the view, with a one click option to make them collapsed (drop down).

2. The positioning of elements and links seems to be broken. Notice the location of the "more" links. (attached image)

3. This screenshot of the "Jazz>Popular>more" page looks pretty bad. Plus there are only 2 songs in it. (attached image)
I also searched for Bill Evans which led to a page, but with no songs, and the same with Dave Brubeck. Infact there hasnt been any songs for any of the artsists I've searched for so far.

4. Choose an artist in the artist drop down menu, and then windows crazy with it "click" sound while MC loads that artist's page.

[JimH]

1. Since the web page is quite sparse, it seems the real power in browsing the store lies in the category drop down boxes. I didnt even notice them until I started searching for a better way to browse the store. I think the need to be more prominant.
If it were possible, the best way to browse the store for me would be using library views. Seeing pages of cover art rather than long lists of text would encourage me to click on different artists and albums.
If not possible then perhaps you could have the category panes docked in the view, with a one click option to make them collapsed (drop down).

Try a search for an artist, then follow similar artists, or play radio.

I also searched for Bill Evans which led to a page, but with no songs, and the same with Dave Brubeck. Infact there hasnt been any songs for any of the artsists I've searched for so far.

I searched for Bill Evans and found around 1200 files, not including his trio, etc.

Maybe you're only searching Popular?

[park]

It produces a list of grouped albums that are empty.

[MrC]

I agree with Park on this.

If users have to work hard to find music, you lose buy opportunities.  I found the drop downs, select Jazz.  I see the New (Releases) section, and click More. I was given a list of 20 albums, only 12 different than what was already shown on the previous page) and all their tracks.  But then what?  How do I get the next 20?  How can I see cover art for the 100 newest albumbs from that genre, and not long track lists?  This is a missed opportunity.

I see I can pull down a very long list of artists, but that misses the point.  You *really want* flashy cover art in front of peoples faces (the list is also nice as a supplement).  Since I can't see how to get the next 20 New albums, I leave this section, and decide finding new Jazz releases is too much work, so I'll go elsewhere where it is easier.

Track details should be hidden until you want them, or drill into an album.

Sub-genres would be nice.  I'm not too keen on seeing Kenny G on the same page of new Jazz as Stan Getz or Miles Davis.  That's too broad a grouping.

I don't understand the New category.  Norah Jones' "Come Away with Me" album is pushing 8 years, so New either means new CD pressing, or new to Performer.   It would be nice to have New to Performer, New CD/MP3 Releases, and/or New Albums (eg. first release of any form).  I used to keep up with new CDs when they came out, to audit them, and there are other sources that have very good data on this.  Since they offer music sampling/downloads, you wouldn't want me to buy elsewhere, right!?

There is a lot of white (grey) space - instead of Top 5 songs, show 10, or show other relevant / useful boxes that entice.

[datdude]

Well, I think it's a good start and hope it sticks!

[park]

I hope it sticks too.

Testing it at home I get a full bio of bill evans and a list of albums with songs in them. It might be an IE6 thing. At work I still use IE6.

[JimH]

  I found the drop downs, select Jazz. 

Don't use the drop downs.  Use the search.  We may remove the drop downs to prevent confusion.

[park]

I tried to create an account just to see if I could, and I could!

However, whenever I try to play a song, it tries to aquire license then gives up and does nothing.
When trying to download a song it says that my device isnt supported and tht there is a problem setting up my computer to aquire a license.

I subscribed to the $12.99 a month plan.

[JimH]

The basic subscription won't let you transfer files to a portable device.

You should be able to stream full length songs on your PC.  Does that work?

[park]

No. Everything's broken. It gives me the device error when I try to purchase an album. Streaming doesnt work either. It says "Aquiring license" in the top staus window then stops.

[JimH]

Stand by.

[Matt]

No. Everything's broken. It gives me the device error when I try to purchase an album. Streaming doesnt work either. It says "Aquiring license" in the top staus window then stops.

I'm not sure what's happening.

Could you try individualizing by visiting this site in IE:
http://drmlicense.one.microsoft.com/Indivsite/en/indivit.asp

Then restart the player and see if it's any better.

You could also try an MP3 purchase if you have a $1 to burn to see if you have any better luck when DRM is out of the picture.

Thanks.

[park]

Went to the microsoft page and upgraded my license. No change. Still no streaming playback. I will reboot and see if that changes anything.

Downloading the mp3 worked. I figured that the download would be mp3 by default. It ought to be. That would have been a nasty surprise if I'd been left with a wma file.
Is there a way of downloading a whole album in one go as mp3 without going to amazon?

[MrC]

Don't use the drop downs.  Use the search.  We may remove the drop downs to prevent confusion.

Those were a *good* thing!

But search on What?  I wanted to see New Jazz releases.  Goal: Once a week I'd like to see what new CDs were released.  As a dumb customer,  I don't see how a search solves this.

I think my point was simple enough: do you want to arbitrarily limit your customer's ability to see loads and loads of music by expecting them to work hard at finding it (and be MC wiz kids)?  Or would you like to present them with endless supplies of visual candy!  Minimally, there should be a More button that advances the canned search that showed the first 20 albums to the next 20 albums.

The Masses really, really want a Show Me More button.  Amazon gets this right.

[park]

A little more feedback:

1. When doing a search, it would be good if all the info were links so there were an easy way to jump to the album, artist etc.

2. It would also be good if there were a way to sort albums for an artist in date order.

I agree with MrC. I havent seen one thumnait on the webpages that has made me click on it yet. It would be good if the web pages were full of the artists already in the user's library, or if possible "similar artists" to those in the user's library.

[park]

Went to the microsoft page and upgraded my license. No change. Still no streaming playback. I will reboot and see if that changes anything.

Downloading the mp3 worked. I figured that the download would be mp3 by default. It ought to be. That would have been a nasty surprise if I'd been left with a wma file.
Is there a way of downloading a whole album in one go as mp3 without going to amazon?

Restart of computer didnt make any difference.

[darichman]

I just... moved to Kansas and made an account for the 12 day free trial, but I think I'm having the same problem as park.

The first time I tried to play a file, it prompted me to download the windows DRM individualisation thingy. Once that had finished, I restarted. Now when I play a file I get a pop-up saying DRM License Acquisition Error.

[jmone]

I just had a play.... and was very surprised I could!

1) Jim - I'm not sure you will be thrilled but you can subscribed from anywhere in the world (I'm in Syd Aust).  No need for any US based proxy servers or anything fancy, just create your account and leave the US "state" as whatever.....it accepts both non-US IP addresses and non-US Credit Cards.
2) I too have the same "DRM License Acquisition Error" if logged in and trying to stream a song with both a Win7-64bit and a Vista-32bit PC.  Purchasing an MP3 is fine however, so is the 30sec clips.

I think the integration is nicely done but a couple of comments:
1) Don't shoot the messenger (I know it is a sore point) but no apple support cuts a big part of your target market out
2) Personally I want lossless tracks so I'd rather purchase the CD over any of the current MP3 based services (but that is just me and I know that most will take accessibility any day)
3)I’m a “browser” not a “searcher” so I agree with other comments in this area - eg that the first thing I did was try to browse album covers.  So I clicked on “Rock” and was amused to see that listed under “New” was cutting edge releases like Pink Floyd, Metallica and a others over 10 years old.  Pressing ahead I then  clicked on “more” but only got a list of Songs grouped by 20 x Album.  I was expecting to see a list of Rock Albums sorted by released date…..I’d also suggest you want a list of Albums that only displayed the songs when you click on them.
4) You need to add this to TheaterView - it would look great!

Thanks
Nathan

[Alex B]

May I suggest to add an informative advertisement that would show up when the Performer store is clicked in the tree? Currently it appears to directly start a download (14+ MB) without first giving any indication of what it is about. If Internet is not available or the connection is blocked by a firewall the tree node doesn't work at all.

In addition to showing a brief summary of the Performer Subscription system (this should be available even if the computer is not connected) it should provide a link to a more complete online performer store information site, a "start using" button that would download the needed software components (is it just the database?), and also a button that would hide the store from the tree (it would switch it off in the plugin manager and it would be possible to make it available again).

[JohnT]

Went to the microsoft page and upgraded my license. No change. Still no streaming playback. I will reboot and see if that changes anything.

Could you send a log file to 'johnt at jriver dot com'?  <edit> Just enable logging and exit the player, then restart, login (or auto-login if that's how you selected), then try playing a track from the store, then send the complete log.</edit> Thanks!

- John

[jmone]

Sorry - I've been away, Log file now sent.

[JohnT]

Sorry - I've been away, Log file now sent.

For some reason, I didn't receive your email. Please send again to johnt at jriver dot com. Record the entire session from start up of the player through shutdown.

Thanks.

[park]

John,
Can confirm that songs now stream properly on my home computer. I have jumped around a few artists and done some seaches and it all plays fine.
Artist Radio seems to be working well too.

One quesiton,
Is there a way to buy an album in mp3 format in one go? (Not using amazon, because they reject my ip address)

[park]

Spoke too soon. I wasnt logged in, so it was playing me 30 sec clips.

emailing you a log now which shows me logging in and then trying to play a file.

[jmone]

For some reason, I didn't receive your email. Please send again to johnt at jriver dot com. Record the entire session from start up of the player through shutdown.

Thanks.

Resent (I did not get an error the first time...and e-mail looks OK address looks ok).

[JimH]

Build 58 fixed a store problem with XP.  Thanks for the logs, Park!  

Vista may still not work correctly, though both my Vista machines now work.  I had to log out and back in on one to get it working correctly.

You should be able to play on up to 3 machines, but only on one at a time.

If anyone else has a problem, please turn on logging in Help and exit the program.  Then start up again and log in.  Play a track past the 30 second mark, stop and send a log to johnt at jriver, and a copy to matt at jriver.

Thanks for your help and patience with this.  We will adjust any accounts accordingly.

[park]

I'm still having problems on both my machines (build 58). On the home one (vista, ie7) it the store correctly shows tracks in albums and artists and searches, but stalls at the "opening" stage when I try to play one (cover art is briefly visible in the action window).

My work machine (winXP, ie8) wont even show any tracks. You can navigate the store, but any time there show be groups of tracks, there is just an empty list.
I should mention that my work PC isn't downloading windows updates properly either. It stalls on the download part and fails each time. After sorting that out, I'll try the store again to see if the two problems were related.

[JimH]

Did you try logging out and back in?

Re windows updates, the disk isn't full is it?

[jmone]

No change - DRM Error - logs sent (Win7 64-Bit RTM)

EDIT - Same problems on Win7 32-Bit RTM

[JimH]

Microsoft's licensing sometimes need to be renewed.  They call it individualization.  Here's a place to start:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/320150

I believe they changed it recently.  We may not be completely up to date.

[jmone]

Microsoft's licensing sometimes need to be renewed.  They call it individualization.  Here's a place to start:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/320150

I believe they changed it recently.  We may not be completely up to date.

I don't understand where you want us to "start", this link is really old "Article ID: 320150 - Last Review: September 8, 2005 - Revision: 5.1"

[JimH]

Try this one:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925705

Windows Media Player may also update the security layer.  Running WMP may be enough.

[MrHaugen]

This is so cool! Finally it's in MC
I'll have to try the two proxy apps I found earlier, because I can't get any albums or tracks to show.

[jmone]

Try this one:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925705

Windows Media Player may also update the security layer.  Running WMP may be enough.

No change...DRM Error

[JimH]

JohnT is out this week, so it will be Monday before we can look at this again.  Sorry.

It might be worth trying Performer Media Center (top of this board).  It would help us to know if it behaves differently.  The same account should work.

[jmone]

No probs - I've send logs to JohnT who said he would be away.

[JimH]

We also pulled the store out of last night's build so we can hopefully get a build we can move to the MC14 board.  As soon as we do that, we'll put it back in.

[raldo]

With several million files, I understand that the following might be difficult, but:

Would it be possible implement tree browsing in the performer node, similar to standard views.

In other words, if you have two or three standard performer view schemes, download the contents of a node once you click it? Maybe you could limit to one open node at the time. Limit the number of images, etc.

[KingSparta]

DRM Error

Same Here

[jmone]

Couple of Q's while I wait to try it out regading the DRM on these files:
1) What format / bit rate are the tracks (eg WMA 256k??)
2) Are the tracks only streamed or are they downloaded (eg are they downloaded/streamed each time you play them)
3) If they are downloaded can you play them on other MC clients on your network, over Lib Serv etc?
4) Can you sync to handheld devices

Thanks
Nathan

[ThoBar]

Also:

Can you change which 3 machines have access to the music?

[JimH]

I'm moving this to the MC14 board.  The Performer store is now in MC14, beginning with build 69.