Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[jmone]

It was asked a few weeks ago what our mission was, and I said "any media, anywhere, anytime".

Excelent News Jim - Blu-ray here we come!

[JimH]

Excellent News Jim - Blu-ray here we come!

Blu-ray is a pipe.  There are many pipes.  What matters is the media.

(I'm watching "Fellowship of the Ring", so the world has taken on a lot of meaningless meaning.)

[jmone]

Blu-ray is a pipe.  There are many pipes.  What matters is the media.

(I'm watching "Fellowship of the Ring", so the world has taken on a lot of meaningless meaning.)

Ahh the fun of definitions.....do you mean "any content, anywhere, anytime" as I've "mostly" understood media as the thing content is stored on....

[JimH]

Media is media.  News media isn't about the paper or the airwaves.  It's about the media.

Media is the Message.  It doesn't matter what pipe delivers it.  Seinfeld on Internet is Seinfeld on DVD is Seinfeld on TV.

[jmone]

Media is media.  News media isn't about the paper or the airwaves.  It's about the media.

Media is the Message.  It doesn't matter what pipe delivers it.  Seinfeld on Internet is Seinfeld on DVD is Seinfeld on TV.

I disagree...the deliver mechanism ("pipe") is a critical control point to being able to access the content ("media") you want...A "paper based media/pipe" of a newspaper is not much use to a blind man.  If the content you want to watch (Seinfeld) is on a "pipe" your player does not support......it's of no use.....

Actually - all this is splitting hairs - I applaud such a mission of "any media, anywhere, anytime" as it is an all encompassing promise of working towards a vision of allowing us users the ability to watch our content regardless of how it is delivered, stored, or transmitted from its' source for our consumption at a time and place we determine.  Technically, fulfilment of this vision will require MC to work towards the ability to:
- Play all content
- Enable Timeshifting
- Enable Formatshifting
- Enable Placeshifting

In this vision Blu-ray support is just one of many and I don't mind if the answer is "not yet, too expensive, too small a user base etc", BUT I'm not so keen on a dismissive "it's not a part of the vision..."

[datdude]

Media is media.  News media isn't about the paper or the airwaves.  It's about the media.

Media is the Message.  It doesn't matter what pipe delivers it.  Seinfeld on Internet is Seinfeld on DVD is Seinfeld on TV.

I disagree.  Each 'pipe' has its own unique abilities (postivies and negatives) and should be considered when delivering certain types of media.

Seinfeld on the Internet could be much more interactive than on T.V. or DVD, but it may not be easily consumable, i.e. you can't easily save it to your PC, there could be problems with codecs and other browser issues,  and it may or may not be in a high quality format depending on your bandwidth.

Seinfeld on TV, means that it is very easy to use, you get the latest episodes (assuming it is a new show), but you have to have commercials.

Seinfeld on DVD means you don't have commercials and it is very easy to use, but you don't get the latest episodes and likely no interactivity.

If we add in blu-ray, then you get higher quality and potentially more interactivity with BD-Live.  There is no way you are going to get BD quality over the Internet right now.  Even Amazon Video On Demand HD is not as good as a Blu-Ray Disc, visually that is.
 
I am willing trade a little bit of visual quality for ease of use however, but in the end if I love a movie, I will definitely purchase the Blu-Ray for higher quality and bonus content.

[jmone]

I am willing trade a little bit of visual quality for ease of use however, but in the end if I love a movie, I will definitely purchase the Blu-Ray for higher quality and bonus content.

I agree with datdude especially the quote above which demonstrates that each user places their own weighting on what they want in convenience and quality (and trade offs they may want to make) in combination with the Content they are consuming.  I too may trade off quality for convenience to see a particular TV Episode by downloading it, but as I've now 200+ Blu-ray/HD-DVD discs, quality is clearly something I'm unwilling to trade off.

[jmone]

JRiver's mission for MC is "any media, any time, anywhere, "

I spent a bit of time today thinking this statement from Jim through and created a pic outline what I think it means.  I see a diverse environment where MC sits at the middle, accepting all forms of Content regardless of how they are Delivered (accessed or stored) and delivering it for Consumption "anywhere, anytime".  An example of this may be, that I want to watch a Video:
- that it is stored on a DVD ISO on my NAS (any media)
- on my WinMo Phone (anywhere)
- while traveling to work on a train (anytime),

I also tried to make a table of what bits are missing, needs improvement etc (but had to paste a pic in as I could not work out the code in the post to do a table).  While there are bugs to fix, better integration required, and features to add (Library Server, DLNA, Blu-ray support etc) the only major piece from this vision missing is a Video Transcoding engine (what ever happened to Yaobing TV?).  I'm sure this is incomplete, inaccurate etc but it seems to me most things are almost there to successfully perform the following for Video and Audio content:
- Formatshift
- Timeshift
- Placeshift
- Deviceshift

EDIT - You can not see the attached pics if you are not logged in - so linked them below to make the visible to all.

[JimH]

I revised our mantra slightly:
Any media, any time, any place

[JimH]

In this vision Blu-ray support is just one of many and I don't mind if the answer is "not yet, too expensive, too small a user base etc", BUT I'm not so keen on a dismissive "it's not a part of the vision..."

I don't mean to dismiss Blu-ray.  My reluctance is based on a couple of things.  When we investigated a year or two ago, it was $50,000 to join the club.  And a vetting process.  The other problem is that I think digital delivery will overtake it before it goes mainstream.

I don't mean to say that we flatly won't do it. 

[MrC]

Media is media.  News media isn't about the paper or the airwaves.  It's about the media.

Media is the Message.  It doesn't matter what pipe delivers it.  Seinfeld on Internet is Seinfeld on DVD is Seinfeld on TV.

Hmmmm, media, plural of medium, is not the message or content.  It is the container, transfer mechanism (wire, channel) or form!

http://www.answers.com/topic/media-technology-1
http://www.answers.com/media

And from each medium, various forms of expression are made possible.

Let's not destroy another word please! :-)

[JimH]

In common usage, as opposed to Latin, media is an inseparable mix of content and delivery.

The news media, the example above, would be disappointing if the paper that arrived on your doorstep had no ink.

"Media is the message" was my distorted reference to Marshal McLuhan and his "The medium is the message" statement.  Maybe you missed the 60's.

-- The Word Butcher

[Daydream]

The mantra Jim used, it works well, just like a nice hook to a song . I would take it though as a mission, a thing to strive for, not a 100% certainty that would be delivered to everybody's door, tomorrow. Plus that number with 4 zeroes that Jim mentioned falls in line with my guesses; given the Blu-Ray framework I wouldn't push for it either: too much money and energy for a very intricate return, with a questionable public outcome.

Actually for the fun of it I'll argue the opposite: I don't want Blu-Ray support! I would cry bloody murder if Blu-Ray support is implemented since that would imply too many resources were spent on it when they could've been use somewhere else! Eh, now I said it!

Expanding: I've watched the US Open at Flushing Meadow (yeah, that's tennis, a sport apparently on the rise again in US even if I can't find anybody to play with). The online near-HD broadcast beat the s&%* out of what any network ever did for a sport broadcast. With impossible simple design, everything was ready to be interactively overlayed on screen at any time: match stats, status on 5 arenas at once with sequenced 1 sec refreshed screenshots on each; picture in picture with what's going on on a second court beside the one on the main view; fan chat, etc. All within 1Mbit/s stream! THAT was an experience. That was 2009.

By comparison, aiming for a fixed disc, with content that can be barely accessed, let alone put to work in an environment that would allow one to make personal decisions, looks simplistic and passe. They had one chance with the BD-Live thingie and that still remains the thing people will sacrifice first when it comes to Blu-Ray.

[rick.ca]

I won't pretend to understand McLuhan, but I thought he meant the opposite. As the article says, "McLuhan's insight was that a medium affects the society in which it plays a role not by the content delivered over the medium, but by the characteristics of the medium itself." So, for example, nothing has changed about music or movies, yet we are profoundly affected by advances in technology that have changed and provided new ways for us to see and interact with such content—as well as information about the content. What the idea suggests to me is we shouldn't get too carried away with the notion MC is a "media manager." It is—or it needs to be—an integral part of an evolving "media" that's more about our relationship with the content than the content itself.

In the end, such ideas may not change what needs to be done. Blu-ray, for example, as a format doesn't have any relevance to the idea. It may need to be supported, however, as one of the many mundane things MC needs to be able to do to satisfy the "any media" objective. That's because there's a big in the relationship to the content that MC facilitates when it's "all media" rather than (for example) "all movies, except those on Blu-ray."

[JimH]

50 years ago, McLuhan was probably right.  Owning the New York Times was a franchise for delivering news in the NY metropolitan area.

Now the NY Times competes with salon.com or HuffPost or the g-men.

[rick.ca]

50 years ago, McLuhan might have said something like, "The New York Times is the message. It doesn't matter what they print." Today, he would say "The Web is the message. Content doesn't matter." The truth of the idea is more obvious today than it was then. So you just need to figure out how to make MC the message. Because Blu-ray doesn't matter.

[tunetyme]

My recollection of McLuhan was the image of driving a car down the street with the windshield completely blacked out.  The only means of navigating was the rear view mirror. 

We don't look where we are going only where we have been.

Tunetyme

[dcwebman]

The other problem is that I think digital delivery will overtake it before it goes mainstream.

This topic is getting too deep for me but I just wanted to put in my 2 cents and disagree this one item. I would say that blu-ray is already mainstream, well at least my definition. You can find it any of the stores and pretty much everything coming out now is coming out on blu-ray too. I don't plan on having the most powerful computer sitting next to my entertainment center with huge drive space available so I can play downloaded high-def media, but the PS3 I bought last Christmas works beautifully for this and I can play some pretty cool games too.

[jmone]

While Blu-ray is OT in this thread, I see from the BDA newsletters (http://www.blu-raydisc.com/en/Press/Blu-rayDiscNewsletter.html) and press conference in Jan this year (http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/08/live-from-the-2009-blu-ray-disc-association-press-conference/), and wikipedia
- As of June 2009, more than 1000 Blu-ray disc titles are available in Australia, 2500 in Japan, 1500 in the United Kingdom, and 2500 in the United States and Canada
- 100Million Blu-ray Discs in 2009 Projected Sales
- 8% of US households have a BD Player (quickets take up of related technology at the 3 year since launch mark)

The most interesting stat for JR however is how many PC's have a BD Drive.....as this is your target market....4 Million PC Users all with BD Drives this year....

[jmone]

....and 1 in 10 discs sold is a Blu-ray (http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php)

[jmone]

I don't mean to dismiss Blu-ray.  My reluctance is based on a couple of things.  When we investigated a year or two ago, it was $50,000 to join the club.  And a vetting process.  

Yup that is option 1, you would be up against PowerDVD, Arcsoft TMT, Nero, etc

I like option 2 (the approach taken by MS Media Center) - Provide support to Integrate these players INTO MC.....

The other problem is that I think digital delivery will overtake it before it goes mainstream.

Others agree that VOD will start to take over (http://www.tvpredictions.com/blustudy020509.htm), but 2017+ is a looooong way off....

Still, Kagan estimates that Blu-ray disc sales will reach $13.1 billion in revenue by 2014 and $15.6 billion by 2017. Additionally, Blu-ray player sales will jump from $255.4 million in 2008 to $1.3 billion in 2010 and $6.9 billion by 2013.

After 2017, Kagan says Video on Demand services, including digital downloads over the Net, will begin to take over the home video industry.

“VOD services will continue to improve in both technology and content over the next decade and begin to draw consumers away from Blu-ray and DVD by 2017,” Holden said, according to Home Media Magazine.