Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[glynor]

EDIT: This issue has been determined to have been "caused" by incompatibility between MC14 and Windows 7's Custom DPI size setting.  See below for more details...

I've finally taken the plunge and installed Windows 7 on my HTPC (I still have my old WinXP drive intact so I can roll back if I want to).  It mostly went well, but I'm having a serious problem with MC...

The Windows Taskbar won't "disappear" properly when MC is in fullscreen mode.  When I go fullscreen in all of my other players on the system, the taskbar disappears as you'd expect, but not in MC (using the latest current build, of course).  The same applies to using MC in Theater View.  The Taskbar is still stuck there on top of Theater View.

Every once in a while I can get it to "cover" up (but I'm not sure why, when, or how this works), but most of the time it is there no matter what I do.

I'd seen this a few times on both my laptop (using the RC of Windows 7 currently) and on my Office machine (now using the RTM), but never as bad as on the HTPC.  On those other machines, I could usually click on the playback window with my mouse (to bring it to the front) and then the taskbar would go "underneath" the full screen display as expected.  This isn't working on my HTPC, and the taskbar is visible 100% of the time.

(In other news, it appears playback using CoreAVC and MC is broken in with the Windows 7 RTM.)

[glynor]

FYI: When I send a detached display fullscreen, it correctly hides the taskbar.  Of course, that isn't very useful here because you don't have the play controls at the top of the screen like regular Full Screen view, and it doesn't help Theater View at all.  But either way, that works (even if I turn off the  "Detached Display is always on top" option), so something is different between the two playback methods.

Also, I figured out how to override the new built-in h264 decoder and force Windows 7 to use CoreAVC.  It is a bit of a hack, but I might post it in another thread tomorrow.

EDIT: Heck, it's already tomorrow... http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=53995.msg367497#msg367497

[glynor]

Here's a screenshot of playback in Fullscreen View (Display View) and another with Theater View, both with the Taskbar active...

[dcwebman]

Just a curiosity question here is I wonder if it does this on the 32 bit Win7 too? I decided even though my laptop is 64 bit, I'm installing the 32 bit version. I got tired of all the programs that didn't support Vista 64 bit and having to find similar programs that would. Plus it's not like I need lots of power on my laptop anyway. Now my desktop quad-core is getting the 64 bit version.

[glynor]

I've seen it on my Windows 7 RC install on my laptop, which is 32-bit.  As mentioned above, the problem is far more persistent on my HTPC (of course, where it is most important), but I have seen it on my laptop too.

I haven't done serious testing on it like I did with my HTPC, though, and the RC and the RTM have some differences where it comes to video playback.

[JONCAT]

I am seeing this as well and other issues which I believe are related to Windows 7; things get sticky.

1. At times the Tile links won't show.
2. Drop down windows won't work.
3. Full screen mode gets severe tearing when mouse is moved to make control bar appear.
4. Control bar does not always appear.
5. Track Info plugins don't work (white screen).

Windows 7 x64.

DC

[glynor]

Interesting...

I'm not seeing most of those other problems (I'll have to check them systematically).  In fact, I'd actually say that the Control-Bar works better in Windows 7 than it ever did in XP (I saw many of those issues with the "half-visible" control bar, tearing and whatnot in XP, but not anymore).  I'll try to test some more things to see if I can reproduce them.  What specifically do you mean by "drop-down windows won't work"?

I also wonder if some of this has to do with graphics hardware (I doubt that this is the cause of the Taskbar thing, but it certainly could be the problem with some of the other things in that list)...

This system (my HTPC) has a fairly high-end GPU in it.  General hardware:

1. Core 2 Quad Q9550 @ 3.5GHz
2. 4 GB DDR2 RAM
3. AMD HD 4870 512MB GPU (Catalyst 9.9 drivers, the most recent version)
4. Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P Motherboard (latest Intel Chipset and Storage drivers)

[JONCAT]

Drop-down menus in MC, for Tabs.

My fear is that it is my onboard graphics solution for this mini-ITX AMD board.

Jon (aka Dr. C)

[glynor]

My fear is that it is my onboard graphics solution for this mini-ITX AMD board.

You may want to try updating to the latest Catalyst.  Just for good measure...

[JONCAT]

I think I did last week and it broke my HDMI audio (as usual)

On gray screens I see sparklies...not good.

I have tried RivaTuner to make sure I'm at 60hz. I should just RMA the board I guess.

DC

[glynor]

I think I did last week and it broke my HDMI audio (as usual)

You do have to make sure to also update the HDMI Audio driver.  I find the most stable one is the one directly from RealTek on their web site: http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/

Again, though... We're somewhat off topic.  I'm very glad that someone is able to reproduce the taskbar issue.  This makes MC completely unusable on my HTPC until it is resolved, so it is pretty serious, I'd say!

[Daydream]

This is not much help since I have no actual facts that would solve this issue (maybe play a bit with the taskbar state, to autohide and back) but I don't see the taskbar problem, not on my desktop or my htpc. Various ATI 48xx cards, Catalyst 9.9, Win7 x64.

Full screen video stays on top at all times, normal or detached. The taskbar doesn't show up unless I press the Win key.

[glynor]

This is not much help since I have no actual facts that would solve this issue (maybe play a bit with the taskbar state, to autohide and back)

I've tried that...  No luck.  There doesn't seem to be any "Always on Top" option for the taskbar like there was with Windows XP.  I do really suspect this is a MC-specific issue, since I'm not seeing it any any other applications at all (including MC itself if I detach the display).  Still, one thing I am curious about...

I wonder if it is possible that it could be my Keyboard/Mouse combo.  That's something that is substantially different on my HTPC from my other systems.  I have a Microsoft Bluetooth keyboard mouse combo here.

[Matt]

I don't get this on Windows 7 x64 either.

Any other clues?

[leezer3]

Not seeing anything on Win7 x64 either I'm afraid.
Machine specs:
E6320 @ 2.5ghz, 4gb RAM, ATI 3870, two monitors.
I'm wondering if this is related to your CoreAVC hack, as something is clearly up the creek there.

I've got a BT keyboard I could borrow from the HTPC (XP) if anyone else thinks it would help, but I can't see how this could have any effect whatsoever- AFAIK, all new keyboards should show up as HIDs.

Cheers

-Leezer-

[glynor]

Def not the CoreAVC hack or most anything else.  MC was the THIRD app I installed after CPUz and CoreTemp (which I have on all my machines).  Before even drivers or codecs or anything, this happened...

[glynor]

I'm going to try a full nuke-n-pave back (using a third hard drive) to a completely clean install of Windows 7 on this box, with no peripherals or anything, and see if I can figure this out.

[JONCAT]

I don't see this issue on my system any more; I hadn't noticed it consistently as you have.

What's running in your systray? Is that flag a windows update?

On a side note, I just crashed MC14 with an .mov. I made the window non-full screen and lowered it down below the task bar; this is on Vista at work however.

This is a dual-display. when I click on my other monitor, a small piece of the taskbar becomes visible on the full screen video display, and then I can not make the MC control bar display when I move to the top of the screen.



DC

[glynor]

What's running in your systray? Is your taskbar locked or unlocked?

Locked currently, though I tried it both ways.  There doesn't seem to be an option to set the Taskbar to Always on Top like there was in XP.  As far as my Systray, the only thing VISIBLE (not hidden) are the defaults and Process Explorer.  I have PE running on all of my systems, including those Windows 7 boxes that have no real issues.

I'm going to try it completely stock in a few minutes.  The Install is currently "completing..."

I just crashed MC14 with an .mov. I made the window non-full screen and lowered it down below the task bar; this is on Vista at work however.

This is a dual-display. when I click on my other monitor, a small piece of the taskbar becomes visible on the full screen video display, and then I can not make the MC control bar display when I move to the top of the screen.

I have Windows 7 x64 Pro on my system in my "man office" (in the basement), which has dual-displays, and I don't see any issues like that.

I'll report back in a few minutes... It is booting 7 for the first time right now...

[JONCAT]

This work PC is brand new. I did all updates, Office updates, etc. and MS Word 2007 crashes every time I save and close a doc.  I need to start looking for a fix.

My mistake was choosing Vista vs. XP.

DC

[glynor]

I just booted Win7 for the first time, installed MC, and opened Theater View.  Taskbar was HIDDEN, as it should have been.

I'm going to go back to the original Win7 install now and completely nuke my MC install (including trashing all of the Reg entries and everything) and see if I can get it working.

EDIT:  I just booted back to the "old-new drive" and nuked all of my MC14 settings, folders, and registry settings; and then uninstalled.  I've just reinstalled and opened it for the first time and Theater View properly hid the Task bar.

I haven't loaded my library yet though, or tried it multiple times...

EDIT AGAIN: The second time I launched (with no other changes) it went back to the way it was originally... 

[glynor]

Unfortunately, no... The second launch (still everything the defaults, not even registered yet) it failed to cover up the task bar.

I'm going back to my "new-new drive" to try again in my fresh install of Win 7.

[JONCAT]

DOH! 

[JimH]

There doesn't seem to be any "Always on Top" option for the taskbar like there was with Windows XP.

Maybe MS moved it.  They do that once in a while.  It's sure what this sounds like.

[JONCAT]

I found a lame workaround to disable taskbar always on top.

First set taskbar to autohide. Start Task Manager, kill explorer.exe, taskbar will then disappear and no longer occupy space.

http://www.sevenforums.com/general-discussion/2796-keep-taskbar-always-top-2.html

[glynor]

In truth though, I want the Taskbar set to "Always on Top".  That's how I had it in XP, and that's how I'd prefer it to stay in Win 7. When you disable "always on top" for the taskbar, then other applications are able to cover it up when they are in normal windowed mode (it is effectively "part of" the desktop area).  That's not what I want...  I just don't want it on top when MC (or other applications) are in "fullscreen" mode.  This should work.  It works on my other machines and it worked fine in XP. 

However, good news here... I think I figured it out...

More testing, then I'll report.  I've been faked out before on this...

[JONCAT]

Nice. Let us know what you come up with. Seems like MS dropped the ball on this.

DC

[glynor]

Yep.  I can now reproduce it and correct it at will.  

And, I don't think this is Microsoft's fault, or some other piece of software either...  This time it is squarely on JRiver (or at least, it really seems to be).  I only wish I had figured it out before I got the system almost completely re-installed (for the third time).  I was going through and installing everything I use, one piece of software at a time, checking it after every install.  And it was consistently working fine on the new install.

I was through reinstalling all of my drivers and all of my "little utilities", and I was about to go through an install the "big" applications (Acronis 10, Office 2007, and all of those types of apps).  I was skeptical that any of the "major" pieces of software were causing it, so I was beginning to feel completely stumped.  Basically, I had decided to give up and just be happy that the "new install" didn't exhibit the same problem, get everything back to how it was, and then live with it.

Now, to explain something briefly... This system is normally hooked up to my HDTV in my living room via a DVI-HDMI cable.  Today, I'm working on it using a different monitor, but it is still a 1080p HDMI monitor (I wanted to keep as much the same as possible).  The one difference, of course, is that the monitor I'm using in my testing today is much smaller (24" instead of 50") and it sits on a desktop instead of in my living room.  This turned out to be important...

So, just 20 minutes or so ago, I was sitting there waiting for something small to download (a new version of SyncBack), and trying to think of what to do next.  Since I had now pretty much given up on the Windows install I did over the weekend and settled on going forward with my new, fresh install, I decided to actually go in and do my Display Customization tweaks in Windows.  You know, the silly stuff like setting the desktop Wallpaper, turning on the "My Computer" and "Users" folder icons for my desktop, and stuff like that... And while I was in there, even though I didn't need it today while sitting two feet from my monitor, I decided to set my normal Display DPI size settings so that it'd be all ready to go when I hooked it up to the HDTV tonight.

So, I opened up the Displays Control Panel in Windows 7, set it to Medium size (125%) and hit OK.  The system made me log off and back on again as normal.  And then, after looking at it, I remembered that I had tried that setting and it still wasn't quite big enough, so I went back into the Displays Control Panel and went to Set Custom DPI Text Size.  Typed in 135% and hit Apply.  Again it had me log off and back on again, and then it looked how I wanted it on my HDTV.

I was about to continue installing stuff, including Office and whatnot, but I decided that it'd be a good idea to check MC before I started.  I knew I hadn't really done any installs in the interim, but since I'd logged off and on a few times, I figured it'd be a good plan to double-check it.

So I opened MC up...

I immediately noticed that MC was acting completely funky about "snapping" to different sizes, and remembered this from the weekend.  After I set the custom DPI size, MC refuses to resize properly (it snaps all weirdly to sides of the display that aren't there and just generally acts like a pain).  Previously I had decided that this didn't matter much, since I always use MC Maximized on my HTPC, so who cares...  But then I started to get excited.  It was actinv weird.  Perhaps this was a sign... So I maximized MC, and hit F11 to open Theater View, and...

Whammo!

The Taskbar stayed on top.

I tested it a few more times, played some video, and it continued to "misbehave".  So I exited MC.  Went back into the Displays Control Panel and set the Text Size back to Medium (non-custom).  Logged off/on, opened MC, and presto-chango... The Taskbar hides properly!

This totally makes sense.  One of the things that was confusing me is that I really installed MC early in the process over the weekend.  It is nice to listen to music while I'm working, so I threw MC on there (like I said) as the third application I installed in the process.  However, one of the very FIRST things I did was customize the DPI size, to make working from the couch easier to deal with.

So, of course, I saw the issue the whole time.  Since I was working at a desk with a smaller monitor this time, I never bothered to do this, and so never reproduced the problem!

So, I've subsequently rebooted back to my old-new hard drive (the one from the weekend that has everything ready to go on it), changed the DPI size back from Custom 135% to Medium 125% and again, presto-chango, the problem is GONE.

[glynor]

So... Too long, didn't read:

MC14 does not work right if you set a custom DPI Size in Windows 7 (this probably applies to Windows Vista too, though I have not tested it).  Setting one of the "XP-Style, stock" DPI sizes (100%, 125%, or 150%) is fine, but if you go into the Custom box and type in a size, which is one of the fancy new features of the Aero UI, it breaks MC in a few different ways, including the Taskbar being stuck on top even in fullscreen mode.

As I mentioned above, all the other applications I've used do not exhibit this behavior, so this is a specific incompatibility between this Windows Aero feature and MC.  But still, it is easy enough to work around once you know it happens.

Still, it would be nice to be able to use the custom font scaling sizes in Windows 7.  That's a feature I was quite excited about for my HTPC when switching to Windows 7, and is something very nice to be able to use.  Hopefully this can be fixed.

[HiFiTubes]

I followed this post awhile back, and I too noticed that you must enable XP-Mode.

What I mainly noticed, as I don't use Theater View, was how bad the resulting scaling was making toolbar menu fonts look really bad.

I'm currently dealing with what I think may be a similar issue, and will do a little more testing before reporting back.

Have you had any focus issues since setting to XP-mode (i.e. losing Tile links or scrolling ability)?

[glynor]

I do often have focus issues, but I don't think it is connected to font scaling.  I've always suspected that it has much more to do with the background Thumbnail generation than anything else.

Quite often though I "return" to MC's main UI (after stopping fullscreen playback, for example), with the Standard UI maximized but for some reason not the "foreground" application (which means my remote control stops working).

[HiFiTubes]

Quite often though I "return" to MC's main UI (after stopping fullscreen playback, for example), with the Standard UI maximized but for some reason not the "foreground" application (which means my remote control stops working).

This is where I work most of the time, and I constantly experience this. I can cause it to occur many ways, playing with the task bar or going full screen for example. MC isn't generating, analyzing, and playing, and it's not hard to reproduce here. I've noticed MC has real trouble remaining as the foreground app.

[glynor]

I suspect, as Jim indicated in another post on the subject, that most of these issues are caused by DirectShow filters that load their own taskbar UIs and steal focus.  In particular, I know Haali and FFDSHOW can do this.  I've not yet really hunkered down and tried to figure it out.  I understand that this may be "the other application's fault".  However, the designers of the "other applications" would probably argue that MC is using their filters in a non-standard way (especially when building thumbnails) and that it needs to be dealt with on JRiver's side of the fence.

I'll say this though... If you play files in Media Player Classic, which behaves similarly (it loads FFDSHOW and Haali icons in the tray), you do NOT lose focus when you stop playback.  So, they've figured out some way to handle it.

I DO think there is a way that JRiver could deal with this issue without insisting that we cripple our DirectShow filters by disabling the task-tray notification icons.  Why can't MC just "re-steal" focus when (a) fullscreen playback stops, (b) an external thumbnail generation process finishes and MC was in the foreground when it started, or (c) when MC is currently maximized and the play-state changes?  This seems like it would probably solve 90% of the problems and would not require us to hobble our DirectShow plugins!

I understand that we also don't want MC stealing focus from our other applications willy-nilly, but it seems like a careful balance can be created, rather than an all-or-nothing approach (with the current default seeming to be nothing).

[JimH]

I suspect, as Jim indicated in another post on the subject, that most of these issues are caused by DirectShow filters that load their own taskbar UIs and steal focus.  In particular, I know Haali and FFDSHOW can do this.  I've not yet really hunkered down and tried to figure it out.  I understand that this may be "the other application's fault".  However, the designers of the "other applications" would probably argue that MC is using their filters in a non-standard way (especially when building thumbnails) and that it needs to be dealt with on JRiver's side of the fence.

I'll say this though... If you play files in Media Player Classic, which behaves similarly (it loads FFDSHOW and Haali icons in the tray), you do NOT lose focus when you stop playback.  So, they've figured out some way to handle it.

It may be the difference between an application that is multi-threaded (MC) and one that is not.  I don't know that for certain.

[HiFiTubes]

I had this problem tonight after loading into Locate Internally.

MC still needed to build the small thumbs next to the audio files. When it was done I still had no mouse control; only until I min/max'd MC did it work again.

This is with a library free of video files. I'm rarely switching out of Standard View to cause this; it's occurring as I try to rip CDs and tag them.

[glynor]

When it was done I still had no mouse control; only until I min/max'd MC did it work again.

This sounds like something else entirely... When I "lose focus" I never lose mouse control.  I'm talking about MC not being the "foreground application" anymore (so keyboard and remote control input no longer works).  Mouse control is unaffected because as soon as you click on MC's UI, it is brought to the foreground.  In fact, when I lose focus, that's how I have to fix it (by clicking on the UI with my mouse).

I'm not sure that your issue is a MC issue.  Are you using any kind of weird control scheme?  Any strange mouse drivers?

[HiFiTubes]

My experience is becomgin progressively worse.

Max MC. Then bring up a half-max Explorer folder over MC to look at a filename.

I click on a field in MC, and the Explorer Window remains!

I can scroll but the focus is on the folder window. ?

I'm doing things like Drag and Tag and will then lose control over MC menus, mouse-wheel scrolling, but I can select things like fields in Panes.

After one Drag and Tag I actually had an Explorer folder window jump in front of MC for no reason.

I'm at a complete loss.

This system has an onboard HD3200 that is fully updated at can do 1080p without a hitch (DXVA for some material works too).

[HiFiTubes]

I can re-create this problem with 100% of the time. If I open Taskbar Properties and return to MC, the keyboard or mouse control is lost.

If I tick a checkbox to toggle an option for the Taskbar, and return to MC all focus is lost, and I must min/max MC to regain.

Other weirdness:

1. MC maximized
2. Bring up Taskbar from auto-hide.
3. Right-click Windows icon to bring up properties.
4. Select okay.
5. MC is minimized to taskbar.

Is anyone running Windows 7 x86 or x64 (what I am using) at 1920x1080 to test this?

I am running with Aero disabled, taskbar not hidden (or hidden),  standard DPI, and Aero Peek turned off. All disabled/stock settings were arrived at after attempts to fix the problem.

[HiFiTubes]

Think my issue may be caused by RiverMote (99%) sure; I'll contact the developer.

[JimH]

Think my issue may be caused by RiverMote (99%) sure; I'll contact the developer.

Thanks for reporting your finding.

[glynor]

Is anyone running Windows 7 x86 or x64 (what I am using) at 1920x1080 to test this?

I am running with Aero disabled, taskbar not hidden (or hidden),  standard DPI, and Aero Peek turned off. All disabled/stock settings were arrived at after attempts to fix the problem.

It sounds like you figured it out, but... So you know...

I am running Windows 7 x64 at 1080p on 2 different machines (two different monitors, one is my HTPC attached to a HDTV, the other is my office machine with a 24" 16:9 monitor).  I also have a Vista x86 machine that I use occasionally with MC on my computer at the office that has two monitors, the primary is a Dell 24" 1080p monitor.  And, lastly, I have my laptop with Windows 7 RC x86 (for now, I'll be installing the x64 build when I move it over to the release version of Win 7), though its screen is a lower resolution.  Otherwise, though... I keep the eye candy turned on (Aero, etc).  My DPI settings are all standard except for my HTPC, which is described above.

I'm not seeing any mouse control issues with MC at all on any of those machines, aside from a very rare crash of MC (I am running Beta builds).

[newsposter]

does the custom dpi problem manifest itself in aero and if aero is disabled?

is the problem more severe or changed if the video chipset is Nv, ATi, or Intel?