Topic: new Theater View background system called 'Themes' (Read 19205 times)

Griff · « **on:** September 28, 2009, 07:06:38 pm »

Hi Matt, another great creation for Theater View.

One small prob.

http://pix01.com/9f@GzVU

A number of months ago you released "Theater View Background" playlist.

That was neat, especially when you leave the playlist empty and get

a random show of cover art and images.

Prior to that we had Smoke, aka Dynamite, aka ect.

(VIDEO BACKGROUND -- Ours and Guest favorite)

This is getting kind of sticky, when changing background modes.

So Im "ASSUMING" that "Themes" is an attempt to put them in one place

for easy selection.

And youll move this to Theater View for selection from there.

Or am I dreaming again.

Matt · « **Reply #1 on:** September 28, 2009, 07:32:00 pm »

We're throwing darts, hoping one will stick.

Tonight's dart is the idea of integrating context-sensitive still images into the background.

Next we'd like to make changing colors or backgrounds in Theater View more like picking Windows wallpaper and less like editing XML.

rick.ca · « **Reply #2 on:** September 28, 2009, 08:46:12 pm »

Quote

Tonight's dart is the idea of integrating context-sensitive still images into the background.

WOW! I like it!

I think there's a lot of potential in this approach. It avoids the problems of other suggestions that would involve using images too specific in nature. Most importantly, it provides a pleasing and impressive result—without me having to do anything. Applying it to video will be more challenging, but I suppose images of actors could be used the same way as images of artists are used for music. Then all we'll need is for it to analyze photos and play appropriate background music while displaying them.

gappie · « **Reply #3 on:** September 29, 2009, 02:04:13 am »

very nice, and fairly easy to change the pics and to add to categories. i like it...

gab

maybe adding a 'default' image could be nice for those places images?

MrHaugen · « **Reply #4 on:** September 29, 2009, 02:08:54 am »

So, what exactly is context-sensetive images, and where are they picked from? I'd have a problem if I don't have images in my library, or do you support a set of images with MC? I'll check later on my test computer.

When I first saw this, I automatically thought of stock images of music, video and image related images to be shown when we are in the corresponding views. Series backgrounds would also do great here, but again... it would need to have series art, and MC does not currently support that in a good way.

rpalmer68 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 29, 2009, 07:11:24 am »

Quote from: gappie on September 29, 2009, 02:04:13 am

very nice, and fairly easy to change the pics and to add to categories. i like it...

OK, you got me... how??

gappie · « **Reply #6 on:** September 29, 2009, 08:58:29 am »

Quote from: rpalmer68 on September 29, 2009, 07:11:24 am

OK, you got me... how??

under skins>thv in the program files there is folder theme. you can change the pics there, or add for instance one called: playing now. or: news.

i have not tested yet if a new install will overwrite the images. but i would not expect that.

gab

MrHaugen · « **Reply #7 on:** September 29, 2009, 05:01:21 pm »

I LIKE it! Nice addition. Really smooth. This only works for Root items? I tried to make a series.jpg and entered the series view, but it did not change. The root item is Video.

raym · « **Reply #8 on:** September 29, 2009, 05:10:43 pm »

Quote from: Matt on September 28, 2009, 07:32:00 pm

Next we'd like to make changing colors or backgrounds in Theater View more like picking Windows wallpaper and less like editing XML.

I like the sound of this a lot. Customisation via the XML (for those who dare, like me) is still important for placement of items etc but colour and background customisation through a GUI interface would be well received I'd imagine, Also, I really miss the degree of customisation that used to be possible in previous versions (MC12/13). For example, it's no longer possible to define context sensitive images for the main menu and text colours (for highlighted items say) is also not possible anymore either.

Maybe we could finally get more than just time and zone id show up on the main page too? I'd like to put the date on there for example.

Cheers.

Matt · « **Reply #9 on:** September 29, 2009, 06:19:04 pm »

With tonight's build you can mix videos into the theme.

raym · « **Reply #10 on:** September 29, 2009, 06:44:35 pm »

Looks awesome Matt.

I originally posted this in the build thread coz I didn't realise Griff already raised it ... Background images only seem to fill part of the screen. The right third of the screen isn't covered..

[EDIT] perhaps this is intentional? So that the info panel isn't obscurred?

Matt · « **Reply #11 on:** September 29, 2009, 07:15:08 pm »

Quote from: raym on September 29, 2009, 06:44:35 pm

I originally posted this in the build thread coz I didn't realise Griff already raised it ... Background images only seem to fill part of the screen. The right third of the screen isn't covered..

I think it's an aspect ratio thing. Images are placed at the top left below the header. The right and bottom edges fade out softly. They're drawn so that aspect ratio is preserved. No cropping is done to make the image fill the screen.

rick.ca · « **Reply #12 on:** September 29, 2009, 08:05:24 pm »

Should I be seeing the audio/image/video default images at some point (in their respective views)? So far, it seems whenever a default image is called for, the "subway" image is used.

Default images, BTW, can be manually cropped/resized to fit one's monitor resolution. But I assume before this is finished, multiple images will be provided and the appropriate set selected. As for the downloaded images, I think the way they're being handled is the best choice possible. I suppose restricting images used to a certain aspect ratio range would be possible, but I don't see any compelling reason to do so. The fading in and out of images of different sizes is part of what makes it visually interesting. I should point out I favour the list style with the list on the left and the covers on the right. The drawing of the images from the top left works particularly well for that list style, but perhaps not for others.

raym · « **Reply #13 on:** September 29, 2009, 11:24:42 pm »

Quote from: rick.ca on September 29, 2009, 08:05:24 pm

The drawing of the images from the top left works particularly well for that list style, but perhaps not for others.

Exactly. For list views, it looks ok coz you have the info panel on the right but, a view full of thumbs with a background that only partially fills the screen looks a little odd to me.

By the way, I'm mostly talking about artist images that appear while browsing audio (man, this is awesome!). I've actually removed the default images for now and MC still honors my default background (as defined by the skin in use). I love this!

Cheers.

rick.ca · « **Reply #14 on:** September 30, 2009, 12:51:19 am »

Quote

Exactly. For list views, it looks ok coz you have the info panel on the right but, a view full of thumbs with a background that only partially fills the screen looks a little odd to me.

Maybe the image handling could be different depending on the view style in use. If that's feasible, my suggestion would be to do it so the area not filled by the image is most likely occupied by thumbnails...

list with thumbnails—drawn from the top left, as they are now.
thumbnails only—drawn from the bottom and centred horizontally.
list only—drawn from the top right.

gappie · « **Reply #15 on:** September 30, 2009, 02:18:01 am »

this is fun.. very well done..

in playing now, am i right it only works when there is only one artist in playing now? i think it would be amazing when it would pick the images of the artist of the song that is playing, or which song has focus? when in playing now only, ofcource.

thanks a lot.

gab

some extra thoughts. i guess the images are taken from google images? could it be an idea to add some music sites like last fm or something like that to the search. when i look to for instance derek bailey, i always get the pictures of this small baby that died when he was a few months old,

not say what i get with the band called massacre (i know terrible name, and no, its not Death metal).
will listen to my carla bruni record a bit more often though.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #16 on:** September 30, 2009, 03:46:02 am »

So, where is the text actually picked up? Root it self and the root items is used, but can we also use this for Artists, and individual series? Which tags is read from? Is the file caption used?

gappie · « **Reply #17 on:** September 30, 2009, 04:45:00 am »

i tried to add an avi in the background, and that worked nicely. also tried a mov, which didnt, maybe as expected.

gab

gappie · « **Reply #18 on:** September 30, 2009, 05:16:31 am »

Quote from: gappie on September 30, 2009, 02:18:01 am

i guess the images are taken from google images? could it be an idea to add some music sites like last fm or something like that to the search.

or maybe add an option to look inside mc first, inside a smartlist or something like that, so people can use their own collection of images of artist. and that would give some new interesting new possebilities..

thanks for keeping me of working this morning.. its nice.

gab

marko · « **Reply #19 on:** September 30, 2009, 07:23:02 am »

Indeed. Some "Image currently unavailable" messages showing up from Flickr there too.

On the whole, the system works really, really well. Excellent results for Avril Lavigne and Bob Dylan for example.

They're too easy though, and the system tried, and failed, when I gave it artists such as 'Texas', 'The Associates', 'T'Pau', 'ABC' etc. etc.
"Turin Brakes" returned some nice vehicular photos, along with with some artist photos, so not a complete failure there.

No pornography so far, so not all bad, and the system seems also nicely disabled for multi-artist albums, which makes sense.

Good stuff so far though, very impressive.

-marko.

Matt · « **Reply #20 on:** September 30, 2009, 09:22:24 am »

The images come from Google Images and htbackdrops.com. We're open to suggestions for other sources.

It would also be possible to play YouTube videos or similar in the background, although the quality of online video is still so low I don't think it'd look too sharp.

Quote from: marko on September 30, 2009, 07:23:02 am

Indeed. Some "Image currently unavailable" messages showing up from Flickr there too.

Have you noticed an artist name that shows one of these? I think we could probably filter them out.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #21 on:** September 30, 2009, 09:57:29 am »

Yes, it downloads images from other sources. Just figured it out. Nifty!

Would it be possible to use user chosen images? I've tried to copy images to the skin/theme folder but it don't work even though I have the correct name for the artist in the filename. The reason is that some things like series would be cool to have ONE good image background to. Not random stuff that might not look as good.

Griff · « **Reply #22 on:** September 30, 2009, 11:02:55 am »

Looks good Matt

Thanks for adding Video to last night build

Images:

3264x1840

http://pix01.com/Ef@J8011

I dont know

?

Video:

Fills screen

http://pix01.com/Ff@sf4I

Is there any reason you are using AVI as a default?

I see problems with this.

(dont see anything in XML to change)

In the past with testing, I found wmv was the best when it came to quality and speed with MC.

Anyway, have a video playing in say like TV, now travel through the roller bars

notice the video keeps restarting?

also if you try using a mpeg youll get an Action Window.

Thanks for great work.

rick.ca · « **Reply #23 on:** September 30, 2009, 04:14:34 pm »

Quote from: Matt on September 30, 2009, 09:22:24 am

Have you noticed an artist name that shows one of these? I think we could probably filter them out.

Dire Straits produces a "File not found" image from picturepush.com...

Matt · « **Reply #24 on:** September 30, 2009, 04:25:14 pm »

Build 77 adds the ability to have multiple themes installed. You switch between them in Options > Theater View.

It also allows making, sharing, and installing other themes.

As an example of other themes, here's a higher resolution version of the included scheme that will look sharper:
http://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/beta_c3po/theme/Default%20(high%20resolution).zip

Here's a silly Napoleon Dynamite skin that shows using a video:
http://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/beta_c3po/theme/Dynamite.zip

Using build 77, download the zip files above, then pick Options > Theater View > Theme > Install theme from zip file...

Thanks for the continued feedback.

rick.ca · « **Reply #25 on:** September 30, 2009, 04:39:03 pm »

Quote from: MrHaugen on September 30, 2009, 09:57:29 am

Would it be possible to use user chosen images?

Or maybe a way to kill two birds with one stone...

Instead of, or in addition to Artist, use search terms found in a designated list field, where the "search terms" may be URL's as well as words. If only URL's (which could point to local files) were provided, only those specific images would be used. Also allow NOT terms, so saving the term -car for Genesis tracks would result in more of the band and less of the Hyundai.

Even with such a mechanism, however, it would be preferable if there were a way to restrict inappropriate images globally (e.g., don't uses images of cars for any music artists).

Matt · « **Reply #26 on:** September 30, 2009, 05:02:51 pm »

Next build will filter out images with these fingerprints:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/219747/1024/Zene/Dire-Straits---Love-Over-Gold---Recto.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1132/536455557_3e6d81ccd2.jpg

Let us know if there are others.

gappie · « **Reply #27 on:** September 30, 2009, 05:21:54 pm »

i think it is really nice, but i do believe there should be a way to set or filter out images, or let the user overrule a search and use some from its own computer. i just made a random list with artists from my library, 20 artists, and only 2 had nice images, a few had some, a lot had none. allen holdsworth, for instance, i get cars and some score, maybe a drummer who played with him ones, and a guitar that maybe has his name on it, but not himself.

joe sachse: i get nothing but some other guy with the same family name, i know there are some images on the net, but, i think, the search wants only images from a certain resolution, so i get no hits. with classical music i get mostly scores.

what i already mentioned, massacre, those images alone would be reason for me to not use this feature.

even the record from Carlos Santana & John McLaughlin gives me images, that are more close, like paco de lucia and miles davis, and a bit from those two.

and what with for instance the most influencel german band in rock history: can. or OM, or how about the japanese artist: UA. ever listened to the japanes progrock band : Bondage Fruit. i know now that there are people doing that to fruit.

gab

datdude · « **Reply #28 on:** October 01, 2009, 12:11:13 am »

I realize this is experimental, but how do I just not use a theme and have my skin look that way it did in the prior builds?

If I select 'no theme', there is no background image or animated image.

Thanks

fitbrit · « **Reply #29 on:** October 01, 2009, 01:39:35 am »

I'm a fan of Seal's music. However, when in Seal's albums, I'm getting background images of some cute, furry aquatic animal. Some of Seal's music is clubby, but most is not, so those critters are a bit out of place.

I should add that I love the Themes idea, and it's executed beautifully, even in the default theme.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #30 on:** October 01, 2009, 03:12:32 am »

Adding artist or band in the searches might solve lots of this?

Quote from: rick.ca on September 30, 2009, 04:39:03 pm

Or maybe a way to kill two birds with one stone...

Instead of, or in addition to Artist, use search terms found in a designated list field, where the "search terms" may be URL's as well as words. If only URL's (which could point to local files) were provided, only those specific images would be used. Also allow NOT terms, so saving the term -car for Genesis tracks would result in more of the band and less of the Hyundai.

I like this idea! A search terms field would be sweet. Then we could mix online and local content, and easily separate video and music for instance.

Matt · « **Reply #31 on:** October 01, 2009, 09:21:42 am »

Quote from: datdude on October 01, 2009, 12:11:13 am

I realize this is experimental, but how do I just not use a theme and have my skin look that way it did in the prior builds?

Party's over

gappie · « **Reply #32 on:** October 01, 2009, 11:10:12 am »

Quote from: Matt on October 01, 2009, 09:21:42 am

Party's over

that is a pity.

was fun though

gab

datdude · « **Reply #33 on:** October 01, 2009, 11:25:19 am »

Quote from: Matt on October 01, 2009, 09:21:42 am

Party's over

Yeah, I'm a party pooper, sorry.

Don't get me wrong though, if I spent some time and came up with my own theme, I would probably use it, but for now, I just want to have what I had!

darichman · « **Reply #34 on:** October 02, 2009, 02:16:24 am »

Hey this looks really great!

Quote from: Matt on October 01, 2009, 09:21:42 am

Party's over

I hope it's not going away! I think there's a lot of potential here!

I don't have MC for a few weeks, so haven't been able to try it out...

Would it be possible to find images from the library using custom searches for the theme background, in a way similar to the way we specify which info panel to show for theater view -- we could have particular search results (the images) showing for particular criteria (the contents of the view) for each view

Eg. If [Media Sub Type]=Movie then show images meeting the search criteria =[Movie Title]
This could show backgrounds which match the name of the movie.
If no search results are found, then your standard defaults could just be used.

Is this possible?

rpalmer68 · « **Reply #35 on:** October 02, 2009, 03:27:21 pm »

Quote from: darichman on October 02, 2009, 02:16:24 am

Hey this looks really great!

I hope it's not going away! I think there's a lot of potential here!

I don't have MC for a few weeks, so haven't been able to try it out...

Would it be possible to find images from the library using custom searches for the theme background, in a way similar to the way we specify which info panel to show for theater view -- we could have particular search results (the images) showing for particular criteria (the contents of the view) for each view

Eg. If [Media Sub Type]=Movie then show images meeting the search criteria =[Movie Title]
This could show backgrounds which match the name of the movie.
If no search results are found, then your standard defaults could just be used.

Is this possible?

I agree, I'm not a big fan of automatic image selection from the net, but to be able to have images selected from the library based on criteria woud be really cool.

So when I browse into my Frasier TV series I get a Frasier background that I have selected.

Richard

gappie · « **Reply #36 on:** October 02, 2009, 03:55:02 pm »

i also agree. when this beautiful feature gets combined with the power of the mc library for organizing media, so in this case images and videos as background. i think it could be marvelous.

gab

jmone · « **Reply #37 on:** October 02, 2009, 04:10:52 pm »

I've not had the time to explore this fully but I really like what I have seen so far.

leezer3 · « **Reply #38 on:** October 02, 2009, 05:34:54 pm »

Haven't really had a chance to test this yet, but a couple of concerns-
1. Sites with hotlink protection. These can sometimes add some quite nasty stuff.
2. Are you filtering out small images at all? I'd probably dump anything below about 100x100 px as too small and blurred to be of any use.

Cheers

-Leezer-

JimH · « **Reply #39 on:** October 02, 2009, 05:47:52 pm »

Quote from: Matt on October 02, 2009, 05:17:39 pm

15. NEW: Theater View allows selection of a background color and overlay image strength for themes.

This is a fantastic change. Thanks, Matt.

Picture attached.

rpalmer68 · « **Reply #40 on:** October 02, 2009, 05:49:27 pm »

Very cool Jim, do the waves move?

JimH · « **Reply #41 on:** October 02, 2009, 05:50:11 pm »

Not in mine, but I think you could do that with a video now.

Matt · « **Reply #42 on:** October 02, 2009, 05:53:26 pm »

Here's a free water movie if anyone has an iStockPhoto account:
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup.php?id=6055863

Just download it and drop it in a theme folder. I think it'd be neat to make a theme with lots of clips like this, but the download size would be a problem for us since the whole thing could easily be 100's of megabytes.

JimH · « **Reply #43 on:** October 02, 2009, 06:08:16 pm »

I put some screenshots on Pix01.

gappie · « **Reply #44 on:** October 03, 2009, 04:47:31 am »

with 79 i got a flickr message. in case you wanne know. its from marc ribot.

gab

PS: same with tracy bonham, i dont know how i could find which image it is.
i also dont mind the flickr message much.

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #45 on:** October 03, 2009, 06:09:15 am »

I like where this is going... but at the same time I would like to see something else along side it moving faster.
I find the slow movement through the images gives me an uneasy feeling, like watching the second hand on a clock ticking when your waiting for something really important.

MrC · « **Reply #46 on:** October 03, 2009, 12:27:48 pm »

I agree with the comments about pulling images from the net in Playing Now. The random nature of the pics seem out of place. I'd like to be able to have playing now select from images that are appropriate for what is actually playing now.

It also seems like a never ending task to maintain a blacklist of images.

datdude · « **Reply #47 on:** October 03, 2009, 01:24:50 pm »

Quote from: Matt on October 02, 2009, 05:53:26 pm

Here's a free water movie if anyone has an iStockPhoto account:
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup.php?id=6055863

Just download it and drop it in a theme folder. I think it'd be neat to make a theme with lots of clips like this, but the download size would be a problem for us since the whole thing could easily be 100's of megabytes.

What formats besides .mov does it accept? Can it work for the Dreamscene format: http://www.wincustomize.com/skins.aspx?skinid=794&libid=50

Daydream · « **Reply #48 on:** October 03, 2009, 03:22:38 pm »

Quote from: darichman on October 02, 2009, 02:16:24 am

Would it be possible to find images from the library using custom searches for the theme background, in a way similar to the way we specify which info panel to show for theater view -- we could have particular search results (the images) showing for particular criteria (the contents of the view) for each view

Eg. If [Media Sub Type]=Movie then show images meeting the search criteria =[Movie Title]

Most elegant, I'm with you. That's where things would come together, especially for users having big local collections that will act as movies posters, backgrounds, artists images, fanart, etc.

From a different angle - is there any advice regarding the size and resolution for the images used? Is there a difference in format decoding time (JPG, BMP, PNG) that would matter? Can't say I've noticed anything from limited testing but I'm curious if I need to 'adjust' my local resources.

Really pleased with this new feature!

neFAST · « **Reply #49 on:** October 03, 2009, 03:26:49 pm »

Found nice video backgrounds here:
http://www.dreamscene.org/gallery.php?page=1&Cmd=Show&site=3D_animation#downloadgallery

If you have other sources please share!

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Author Topic: new Theater View background system called 'Themes' (Read 19205 times)