Topic: Windows 7 Snap (Read 5525 times)

Nicholas T · « **on:** January 19, 2010, 05:05:51 pm »

Why doesn't MC14 window dragging behave nicely with auto snap/expanding in W7 like all my other apps?

It's a little annoying that it's the only app that I can't just drag (expanded) around my 3 monitors as I please or use auto dock to the side of a desktop.

Thanks,
Nicholas

benn600 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2010, 06:19:11 pm »

I hate this new feature in Windows 7. I only discovered what it was trying to do from the commercial on television. I would drag windows around and they'd instantly maximize...what a pain. I must admit that I may start liking it down the road but for my first few months with 7 I was very upset.

Being this is Win7 visual problems, I am seeing a lingering issue that I last tested with .127. In theater view with the taskbar hidden, I still see a thin strip (a pixel or two) of the taskbar.

Nicholas T · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2010, 06:28:25 pm »

You can switch the auto snap/expand off if you don't like it.

Personally, I absolutely love this feature. It saves a lot of clicks and I think it comes into it's own with multiple monitors.

benn600 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 20, 2010, 09:23:39 pm »

I find that multiple monitors doesn't work! If I want to use the side-by-side feature they advertise on the commercial, I can't! I can only get the left and right monitor to each get a window. How do I drag to the edge of my left monitor??? I tried this several times...

StFeder · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2010, 04:42:15 am »

I have the same thing with two monitors.

Valisystem · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2010, 12:32:07 pm »

Re: using Snap on multiple monitors. I was frustrated by this too until my teenage son showed me a trick he stumbled on. Instead of dragging with the mouse, hold the Windows key on the keyboard and hit the left and right arrow keys to snap the active program to the left or right side of the monitor. With dual monitors, you can actually move a program across the monitors - start with the program on the left and hit the right arrow repeatedly to march it across the screens, for example.

Bruce Berls
http://www.brucebnews.com

HiFiTubes · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2010, 02:13:09 pm »

Quote from: benn600 on January 20, 2010, 06:19:11 pm

I hate this new feature in Windows 7. I only discovered what it was trying to do from the commercial on television. I would drag windows around and they'd instantly maximize...what a pain. I must admit that I may start liking it down the road but for my first few months with 7 I was very upset.

Being this is Win7 visual problems, I am seeing a lingering issue that I last tested with .127. In theater view with the taskbar hidden, I still see a thin strip (a pixel or two) of the taskbar.

Amen, glad to read we can turn it off. it's horrible. Just double click the title bar to max. Now I can't even put windows near the edge with the geniuses at MS taking over. You'd think the default behavior would include a delay....

benn600 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2010, 02:56:17 pm »

Quote from: Valisystem on January 21, 2010, 12:32:07 pm

Re: using Snap on multiple monitors. I was frustrated by this too until my teenage son showed me a trick he stumbled on. Instead of dragging with the mouse, hold the Windows key on the keyboard and hit the left and right arrow keys to snap the active program to the left or right side of the monitor. With dual monitors, you can actually move a program across the monitors - start with the program on the left and hit the right arrow repeatedly to march it across the screens, for example.

Bruce Berls
http://www.brucebnews.com

So this adds some UltraMon features or any of those other multiple monitor programs.

Nicholas T · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2010, 05:03:38 pm »

I didn't know about the windows button/arrows feature. Now I love it even more!

I don't understand you naysayers. The ability to move a maximized window from one monitor to another just by a grab (of a large title bar always at the absolute top of screen which I don't even need to visually find), drag and drop technique takes me 10ms and a single click. Compared to
1. Position mouse over little restore button,
2. Click
3. Reposition mouse over now moved restored window's title bar.
4. Click and drag to 2nd monitor
6. Position mouse over little maximize button
7. Click.

It has made managing my windows on a 3 monitor setup easier and faster. Perhaps this feature shines more relative to the number of monitors you have (which I use constantly), how much time you spend on a computer and how sore your hands get from mouse use. I'm throwing windows around constantly and this feature makes it pleasurable (think minority report) instead of feeling like I'm fighting stupid windows.

BryanC · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2010, 06:02:10 pm »

I've been using this feature for years on my nix box. The funny thing is that all of the people in the distro community were berating M$ to add a similar feature to Windows 7. They actually did, and now I guess some windows users are complaining about it?

I personally love the feature. It is absolutely perfect for my scientific research, where I'm manipulating data between programs and need to see both at once (waiting for that second 26" monitor,

).

Daydream · « **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2010, 07:10:07 pm »

Quote from: ntrevatt on January 21, 2010, 05:03:38 pm

I don't understand you naysayers. The ability to move a maximized window from one monitor to another just by a grab (of a large title bar always at the absolute top of screen which I don't even need to visually find), drag and drop technique takes me 10ms and a single click.

It takes me 7.5ms with the free version of DisplayFusion.

Nicholas T · « **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2010, 08:05:54 pm »

Anyway, the topic is getting off track.

The original question was, why doesn't this feature work in MC14 and can it be rectified?

The fact is their are users who appreciate this inbuilt windows feature and having one app that doesn't exhibit standard behavior is not nice.

HiFiTubes · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2010, 07:45:05 am »

Quote from: ntrevatt on January 21, 2010, 08:05:54 pm

Anyway, the topic is getting off track.

The original question was, why doesn't this feature work in MC14 and can it be rectified?

The fact is their are users who appreciate this inbuilt windows feature and having one app that doesn't exhibit standard behavior is not nice.

True, sorry to have offered a diatribe instead of a solution. Hope it gets resolved for your sake.

Matt · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2010, 09:33:52 am »

Snap only works for windows that use a standard Windows frame. Media Center does not.

I wish Microsoft hadn't done this, or at least given a custom framed window a way to opt-in. We haven't seen information on this, but if anyone knows something we don't, please let us know.

Some users might say "switch to a standard frame", but removing dependence on Windows is a design direction for us and it's unlikely we'll reverse this just to enable snap.

Nicholas T · « **Reply #14 on:** January 22, 2010, 03:34:02 pm »

Quote from: Matt on January 22, 2010, 09:33:52 am

Snap only works for windows that use a standard Windows frame. Media Center does not...

Why doesn't MC use a standard Windows frame?

Quote from: Matt on January 22, 2010, 09:33:52 am

I wish Microsoft hadn't done this...

Why? I'm obviously not the only user who finds this feature productive.

Quote from: Matt on January 22, 2010, 09:33:52 am

Some users might say "switch to a standard frame", but removing dependence on Windows is a design direction for us and it's unlikely we'll reverse this just to enable snap.

Your product, your decision. I'm obviously one of the "please switch to a standard frame" advocates. There must have been strong reasons not to follow standard design so I'm wondering what they were?

Thanks for your reply.

JimH · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2010, 03:46:01 pm »

Sorry, but details of some things we do are not public.

benn600 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2010, 04:25:28 pm »

Could it be that a standard frame is more likely to require the Windows title bar and box without the ability to skin it as fully? Another possibility is performance. I find that the highly customized display of MC is still fast and responsive compared to other skinned programs. iTunes, for example, has always been a nightmare on a PC with window redrawing.

I'm just saying that dragging windows is the problem. Giving a new keyboard shortcut that isn't use (Windows ...) is fine with me. I will try that and may very well start using it more.

I tried Windows + arrows and I do like that feature. This is an example of an unobtrusive change that works fine. I, and many others, often drag windows way off screen as a temporary way to hide them while still seeing part of the window (for reading text or something like that). So dragging them around with constant snapping is a pain.

Nicholas T · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2010, 09:07:31 pm »

Fair enough. Topic closed.

danrien · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2010, 09:57:22 pm »

media center does support some similar behavior - for example, it will 'dock' to an edge if you are close enough, which I find more useful in many situations than aero snap (in fact i use a program called allSnap to implement this behavior in pre-Vista OS's) - altho aero-snap is much faster to use (no window resizing required) when u want to read/edit 2 documents side by side.

benn600 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 23, 2010, 06:25:54 pm »

I started using the Windows + Arrows shortcut keys and really do like them. Thanks for the tip! I have two monitors at the moment but did have three a few years back. I found the 3rd had a greatly diminished value of return. Plus, I switched to monitor speakers not long ago and don't have the desk space. Maybe when I revamp my workspace, which I plan to do around summertime. I was actually thinking of a third monitor that would be directly connected to my PC. So my Mac would have two connected and my PC would have three. This way I could always see MC even if I'm using my Mac.

I still wish my KVM could switch dual monitors independently...

Nicholas T · « **Reply #20 on:** January 23, 2010, 07:16:13 pm »

3 monitors - couldn't live without them. Would add a 4th if I had the room. I'm trying to figure out how I could mount one above my current ones. The more monitors the less I have to switch between windows. Perhaps it's my aging brain but I find it helps my focus and efficiency.
I think the diminishing returns on extra monitors theory (which I have read elsewhere) is bumpkin (for me). Again, I think it depends on who you are and how you use your PC. Stock traders don't have 4-6 monitors because it looks cool! It's because it makes their life easier and working more efficient.

JimH · « **Reply #21 on:** January 23, 2010, 07:23:53 pm »

I think this gets you six:
http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/products/gxm/th2go/

No personal experience with it....

benn600 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 23, 2010, 08:12:09 pm »

As a web developer I definitely couldn't live without two. I think as I progress I am starting to question more and more why I don't add a third back in. I know! 2 shared between my Mac & PC + a dedicated monitor for each! Two 30" side by side with two smaller mounted above them for MC / chat windows on my Mac. Now THAT is an idea.

The only trouble is that two anything-less-than-30" monitors above the 30"-ers will look awkward. FOUR? lol. I guess that would do MC justice. But iChat windows? I'd probably find other uses I guess.

The Matrox products look intriguing. However, the 3-monitor unit doesn't support large monitors and I don't think multiple small monitors equals a huge monitor. I use a 24" and 21" monitor with combined pixel surface area greater than a high-res 30"

benn600 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 23, 2010, 08:28:43 pm »

I was looking around and ran across the three-monitor single stand. What an idea...now I'm starting to think up what improvements I can make to my work space. Having moderately sized monitor speakers does pose some issues that I will have to work around.

Maybe the right way to do this is 6 monitors. 3 desk level with 3 above them. The bottom three and top center would all be KVMed. The upper left and right would each be dedicated to one or the other computer.

Otherwise, how do you take 3 monitors + the 3 monitor stand and somehow add a dedicated to each system? The only way is a second row of monitors and placing 2 up there would be strange. Different angles, etc. I wonder how much a 6 monitor stand costs.

What is the advantage of having 6 average sided monitors with all the added cost of video cards and stands when you could get one huge, high res monitor? I personally can think of some pros and cons but what does everyone else think?

Okay, Windows 7 snap from bottom right (right-aligned) to upper left (left-justified) on 6 monitor setup. How many keystokes? Windows + arrow NINE! am I right on that?

Rob L · « **Reply #24 on:** January 25, 2010, 08:42:26 am »

Of course the other thing about the snap feature is that widescreen is now so prevalent, and you can use it to divide the screen in half easily. I'm writing this on my huge barely-small-enough-to-be-called-a-laptop, and have a TV program running in a window that's snapped to half the screen, while using the other half to surf.

I did some testing of other apps that have "non-standard" GUIs. One (SonyEricsson PC Suite) supports Aero Snap totally.

Another app supported it partially - to my surprise. It supports it for maximising and minimising, but not for snapping to the sides of the screen.
A couple of others only supported it for minimising. I guess because they're not windows that can be resized.

I couldn't really see any developer documentation about it, though. I guess there must be some kind of windows event raised when you press the key combinations, though, so you'd at least be able to intercept those and get a partial implementation.

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Author Topic: Windows 7 Snap (Read 5525 times)