Topic: playing DTS (Read 14778 times)

GreggP · « **on:** January 25, 2010, 09:04:10 am »

I've just recently tried playing some DTS 5.1 16-bit 44.1kHz audio files with MC14. These files have the extension 'DTS'. Since I am not connecting my computer to an A/V receiver (via S/PDIF) for external decoding, I figured it wouldn't work unless I had a DTS decoder for MC14.

I've searched and it doesn't look like there is a decoder input plugin for DTS, so I'll just have to use foobar2000 to play these files, which plays them without problems. However, in the 'Options->File Types' list for MC14, "DTS Audio (dts)" is included, file association is set to 'yes' and playback method is 'automatic'.

When I try to import a folder that includes files with the 'DTS' extension, they are not recognized. Shouldn't they import just like FLACs, WMAs and MP3s?

Matt · « **Reply #1 on:** January 25, 2010, 09:07:44 am »

Media Center can use any installed DirectShow DTS decoder.

You might try installing CCCP, which includes ffdshow and can decode DTS.

GreggP · « **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2010, 11:08:16 am »

I'm not a big fan of codec packs so I'm going to avoid CCCP. They can really mess up a system. I will try ffdshow though (funny, I thought I already had it installed). I assume I'll have to change my playback device to Direct Sound instead of ASIO, which is what I currently use?

Is there anything else I need to do to get MC14 to recognize the DirectShow DTS decoder?

Thanks.

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** January 25, 2010, 11:14:34 am »

CCCP has been reliable for us. Maybe you had a problem in the past, but we haven't seen one.

It's important to turn off the task bar notifications for Haali and FFDShow when installing CCCP.

GreggP · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2010, 11:33:22 am »

Jim -

I don't need to install a whole codec pack to get ffdshow. You can simply go to their sourceforge site and download it. They have an installer which makes it easy to install.

Now that I've downloaded and installed ffdshow, how do I get it to work with MC14?

Using the Plug-in Manager, I tried adding 'ff_libdts.dll' and it responded with "Failed to install plug-in." message. I also checked 'Add DirectShow DSP Filter', but none of the ffdshow stuff appears in the list.

Thanks for your help.

Yaobing · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2010, 11:40:46 am »

CCCP is not a huge codec pack, it includes only a few essential filters. For DTS, indeed you do not need to install the pack, FFDShow may be enough, except that you may need a DTS Source/parser filter which is not part of CCCP. However, the filters included in CCCP are very essential in playing quite a number of media types. That is why we do recommend installing it.

After installing FFDShow, or any other DirectShow filters, you do not need to "install them as plugins" in MC. You may need to select them as filters to use in MC. To do so, go to Tools > Options > File Types and select the file type you want to configure, and choose "JRiver audio engine (using DirectShow filters)" for Playback Method, then select filters from the drop down lists.

Alex B · « **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2010, 11:55:47 am »

In order to play raw DTS files you need to:

1. Have a suitable DirectShow source filter installed. Haali Media Splitter doesn't work with DTS files that are not in a supported container (dts in mka would probably work). Here is a source filter that works for me: http://ac3filter.net/projects/ac3file

2. Have a suitable DirectShow decoder installed. FFDShow and AC3Filter (http://ac3filter.net/projects/ac3filter) are fine. Sometimes it is advantageous to have both installed. For instance, you may want to use certain audio decoding settings for AC3/DTS video files and different settings for AC3/DTS music files. If you have two decoders installed you can use one with video files and the other one with audio files.

3. Configure the the DTS file type correctly:
Tools > Options > File Types > Audio > DTS Audio (dts)
- Payback Method: JRiver audio engine (using DirectShow filter)
- Source Filter: AC3File
- Other Filters: FFDShow Audio Decoder or AC3Filter

GreggP · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2010, 12:08:39 pm »

Yaobing-

Thanks for the additional instructions.

From 'Options->File Types', I selected 'DTS Audio (dts)',

changed playback method to "JRiver audio engine (using DirectShow filter)"*,

then set the source filter to 'AVI/WAV File Source'**,

and selected "ffdshow Audio Decoder" for 'Other Filters'.

* I also tried "JRiver video engine (using DirectShow filters)", and it didn't work. Besides, doesn't it make better sense to use the audio filter in this case. I am not trying to play video files, just audio DTS/WAV files.

**Also tried leaving this at 'Automatic'. The list does not include ffdshow and since the DTS is in a WAV, I thought this would be the best option.

None of these combinations work. When I try to play a DTS file, MC14 displays the message, "Unsupported File Type."

Thanks again for your help.

Alex B · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2010, 12:29:20 pm »

As I said, you must install the AC3File source filter (-- or another source filter that supports the DTS file format.)

In addition to my above reply:

4. Both decoders have a configuration panel for various settings. The default settings may be usable, but probably you should experiment with what works best for you.

GreggP · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2010, 12:42:17 pm »

Alex-

I also downloaded the latest AC3Filter,

set 'Playback Method' to "JRiver audio engine (using DirectShow filter)"

set 'Source Filter' to "AC3File"

and, set 'Other Filters' to "ffdshow audio decoder" (the only thing close to AC3file is "AC3 Parser Filter", which I also tried)

MC14 still responds with the message "Unsupported File Type" when I try to play a DTS file.

Thanks for helping out.
Gregg

JimH · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2010, 01:15:52 pm »

Is the file extension DTS?

Here's an article from our Wiki, thanks to glynor:
http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/DTS_WAV

Read all the way to the bottom.

GreggP · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2010, 01:50:54 pm »

Originally the file extensions was WAV, but I edited them and changed to DTS so they would play in foobar2000. When the file extension was WAV, they only sound produced was static. After changing to DTS, the music played in all its 5.1 channels with foobar2000.

I'll read the article, thanks for providing the link.

-Gregg

Update:

I'm working my way through the article and starting by trying to download the 'DTSWav Source Plugin from Hypercubemx'. Unfortunately the link takes you to a screen that says "Coming Soon in 2008." I think the wiki page needs some updating.

Other searches for DTSWav Source Plugin or Hypercubemx lead to the same page and message. I'll continue on to see if I can get it working without the DTSWav Source Plugin.

Yaobing · « **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2010, 02:01:40 pm »

Quote from: GreggP on January 25, 2010, 12:08:39 pm

* I also tried "JRiver video engine (using DirectShow filters)", and it didn't work. Besides, doesn't it make better sense to use the audio filter in this case. I am not trying to play video files, just audio DTS/WAV files

Absolutely. It was a typo on my part.

Alex B · « **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2010, 02:22:27 pm »

Quote from: GreggP on January 25, 2010, 12:42:17 pm

Alex-

I also downloaded the latest AC3Filter,...

...(the only thing close to AC3file is "AC3 Parser Filter"...

Just to be sure, did you realize that AC3File and AC3Filter are two separate filter programs? AC3File is a source filter and AC3Filter is an audio decoder. They have separate installers.

Quote

MC14 still responds with the message "Unsupported File Type" when I try to play a DTS file.

After you have the filters configured correctly you could try to play a new copy of one of the DTS files. Copy a file to a new location (or create a copy with different filename) and drag it to Playing Now for testing it. Perhaps MC "remembers" that the file was not playable and doesn't try again.

Alex B · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2010, 02:36:23 pm »

I uploaded a small 5.1 DTS sample file here:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OZ3ZY4PG (2.7 MB, 15 seconds)

It can be used for testing.

GreggP · « **Reply #15 on:** January 25, 2010, 02:40:14 pm »

Quote from: Alex B on January 25, 2010, 02:22:27 pm

Just to be sure, did you realize that AC3File and AC3Filter are two separate filter programs? AC3File is a source filter and AC3Filter is an audio decoder. They have separate installers.

I downloaded and installed 'ac3file_0_7b.exe' from http://ac3filter.net/projects/ac3file/releases.

glynor · « **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2010, 02:41:32 pm »

That wiki page I wrote up is OLD. It did work at the time, but it has not been updated in forever. I suspect that Alex might have more current and relevant information.

Quote from: GreggP on January 25, 2010, 01:50:54 pm

Originally the file extensions was WAV, but I edited them and changed to DTS so they would play in foobar2000. When the file extension was WAV, they only sound produced was static.

Then this is DTS sound in a WAV wrapper, just like my wiki page is dealing with. Alex, can AC3file/AC3Filter decode DTS info in WAV formatted files? FFDSHOW can certainly handle it. It actually looks like everything you need for DTS playback is pre-enabled in modern builds of FFDSHOW, and it has format support built-in for DTS.

Along these lines... What would be an easy way to transcode DTS-encoded 5.1 surround WAV files to something more modern, like 5.1 FLAC or something similar?

I have a large pile of DTS WAV files that I'd really like to get into a more useful and convenient file format.

GreggP · « **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2010, 02:52:53 pm »

Quote from: glynor on January 25, 2010, 02:41:32 pm

That wiki page I wrote up is OLD. It did work at the time, but it has not been updated in forever. I suspect that Alex might have more current and relevant information.

Then this is DTS sound in a WAV wrapper, just like my wiki page is dealing with. Alex, can AC3file/AC3Filter decode DTS info in WAV formatted files? FFDSHOW can certainly handle it. It actually looks like everything you need for DTS playback is pre-enabled in modern builds of FFDSHOW, and it has format support built-in for DTS.

Along these lines... What would be an easy way to transcode DTS-encoded 5.1 surround WAV files to something more modern, like 5.1 FLAC or something similar?

I have a large pile of DTS WAV files that I'd really like to get into a more useful and convenient file format.

The problem with transcoding from DTS-encoded 5.1 files to FLAC is the file size will increase with no audible improvement. I just converted a 42,440 KB DTS file to FLAC and the file size increases to 73,627 KB. However, it's pretty easy to do with foobar2000. You just have to make sure you have the correct plugins like the DTS decoder. With foobar, you can right click a file and pick 'Convert' which brings up their Converter Setup which allows you to choose the format like FLAC. I've been using it to convert 6ch 24-bit 96kHz MLP files from DVD-Audio discs.

For more info read my how to: http://amplioaudio.blogspot.com/2010/01/playing-and-ripping-dvd-audio-with-your.html. Later articles provide links to sample DVD-A material.

p.s., I like foobar2000 a lot, BUT its media library pales in comparison to MC. So I use foobar2000 for some things and MC for most playback. MC has a harder time with 24-bit and multichannel audio, so foobar2000 also works better with that.

Alex B · « **Reply #18 on:** January 25, 2010, 02:55:29 pm »

Quote from: GreggP on January 25, 2010, 01:50:54 pm

I'm working my way through the article and starting by trying to download the 'DTSWav Source Plugin from Hypercubemx'. Unfortunately the link takes you to a screen that says "Coming Soon in 2008." I think the wiki page needs some updating.

Other searches for DTSWav Source Plugin or Hypercubemx lead to the same page and message. I'll continue on to see if I can get it working without the DTSWav Source Plugin.

AC3File is supposed to be able to handle also "DTS in wav container". It should just work if you have changed the extension to DTS so that the DS settings can be set for that file type in MC. "DTSWav Source Plugin" should not be needed.

I am going to test that with my some of my archived DTS wav files, but they are off line and I need to first find them from my back up drives.

JimH · « **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2010, 02:57:20 pm »

Quote from: GreggP on January 25, 2010, 02:52:53 pm

MC has a harder time with 24-bit and multichannel audio, so foobar2000 also works better with that.

What files? Where are they from? I've bought a few files from HDTracks.com lately and not had any problems.

glynor · « **Reply #20 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:01:30 pm »

I got it figured out.

For DTS-WAV files (which are different than the sample file that Alex posted), all you need is FFDSHOW and a little configuration. For my testing, I used the sample DTS-WAV file available here (I tested with both files): http://www.diatonis.com/downloads_dts_ac3.html

1. Make sure you have FFDSHOW installed and working.
2. In MC, go to Tools > Options > File Types
3. Select DTS Audio from the Audio list, and choose JRiver audio engine (DirectShow) as the playback method.
4. Leave Source Filter set to Automatic.
5. Set Other Filters to ffdshow Audio Decoder.
6. Hit the Configure button and open the FFDSHOW Configuration Utility.
7. In the FFDSHOW dialog, select the Codecs "tab" from the left-hand nav.
8. Make sure the DTS decoder is set to libdts and the "check for DTS in WAV" option is ENABLED (should be by default with CCCP).
9. Scroll all the way down in the codecs list and set Uncompressed to "All Supported".
10. ??
11. Profit!!!

EDIT: Updated below.

That's it. Make sure the file extension for your DTS files is set to DTS, and then they should play back in MC just fine. However, this will BREAK "true" DTS files like the one Alex posted. Is that in an actual DTS container, or is it something else with DTS encoded audio inside it, Alex? I can't find much info on any standard DTS container anywhere (there's a lot of conflicting information).

Alex B · « **Reply #21 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:08:15 pm »

Quote from: glynor on January 25, 2010, 02:41:32 pm

Along these lines... What would be an easy way to transcode DTS-encoded 5.1 surround WAV files to something more modern, like 5.1 FLAC or something similar?

I have a large pile of DTS WAV files that I'd really like to get into a more useful and convenient file format.

FLAC would provide tagging support and native decoding, but as GreggP said the files would be a lot bigger.

Matroska (mka) could be one possibilty. I have created mka files from raw DTS files (demuxed from DVD video) with mkvmergegui, but I don't know if it can handle DTS in wave container.

Alex B · « **Reply #22 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:09:19 pm »

Quote from: glynor on January 25, 2010, 03:01:30 pm

Is that in an actual DTS container, or is it something else with DTS encoded audio inside it, Alex? I can't find much info on any standard DTS container anywhere (there's a lot of conflicting information)

You can get those by simply demuxing regular DVD audio tracks. I suppose they can be called standard DTS or raw DTS.

glynor · « **Reply #23 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:14:05 pm »

Quote from: Alex B on January 25, 2010, 03:09:19 pm

You can get those by simply demuxing regular DVD audio tracks. I suppose they can be called as standard DTS or raw DTS.

Ahh... It is the raw data stream, similar to an MPEG-2 Transport Stream file. That make sense.

Alex B · « **Reply #24 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:16:42 pm »

Quote from: glynor on January 25, 2010, 03:01:30 pm

However, this will BREAK "true" DTS files like the one Alex posted. Is that in an actual DTS container, or is it something else with DTS encoded audio inside it, Alex? I can't find much info on any standard DTS container anywhere (there's a lot of conflicting information).

Alternatively you can set wav decoding to happen through DS & FFDShow and change the filename extensions back to wav. In that case it might be better to convert the possibly existing real wav files to some lossless format.

glynor · « **Reply #25 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:22:38 pm »

Actually... I found that AC3File handles the WAV sources just fine. So, I'm going to modify my instructions above to:

1. Make sure you have FFDSHOW installed and working.
2. Install AC3File from here: http://ac3filter.net/projects/ac3file/releases
3. In MC, go to Tools > Options > File Types
4. Select DTS Audio from the Audio list, and choose JRiver audio engine (DirectShow) as the playback method.
5. Set Source Filter set to AC3File.
6. Set Other Filters to ffdshow Audio Decoder.
7. Hit the Configure button and open the FFDSHOW Configuration Utility.
8. In the FFDSHOW dialog, select the Codecs "tab" from the left-hand nav.
9. Make sure the DTS decoder is set to libdts and the "check for DTS in WAV" option is ENABLED (should be by default with CCCP).
10. Scroll all the way down in the codecs list and set Uncompressed to "All Supported".
11. ??
12. Profit!!

The beauty is that this will work BOTH for DTS encoded WAV files (DTS-WAV, like the sample I linked to above) and for raw DTS files like Alex posted. I just tested here on my system with both types of files and it works fine.

You could, of course, use AC3Filter instead of FFDSHOW for the decode filter, if you so desire. I don't really see much benefit to AC3Filter over FFDSHOW though, and it is just one less thing to install and maintain to use FFDSHOW instead.

glynor · « **Reply #26 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:25:50 pm »

I think when I get the chance, I'm going to just Foobar my existing DTS-WAV files into multichannel FLAC files. That seems like a much better long-term plan. Sure, they might be bigger, but I don't really care (disk space is cheap).

GreggP · « **Reply #27 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:36:00 pm »

Quote from: JimH on January 25, 2010, 02:57:20 pm

What files? Where are they from? I've bought a few files from HDTracks.com lately and not had any problems.

Some are files I've ripped from DVD-A discs. Some are SACD tracks that have been digitally ripped into PCM and converted to a compatible file format. Others are high resolution audio I've received or purchased from HDTracks, MusicGiants or Linn Records. I have more problems playing back high resolution multichannel FLACs than lossless high resolution multichannel WMAs. The problems are probably with the way MC uses the sound driver. I've tried default system drivers, ASIO and WASAPI. I have no problems with these files and foobar2000, which I have tried using WASAPI and just the primary sound driver. When I demo my equipment and play high res audio, I usually use foobar2000. When I just want to play music around the house, I use MC.

glynor · « **Reply #28 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:38:53 pm »

Gregg... Did you try my steps above and confirm that it solves your issue?

JimH · « **Reply #29 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:45:02 pm »

Quote from: GreggP on January 25, 2010, 03:26:01 pm

Others are high resolution audio I've received or purchased from HDTracks, MusicGiants or Linn Records. I have more problems playing back high resolution multichannel FLACs than lossless high resolution multichannel WMAs. The problems are probably with the way MC uses the sound driver. I've tried default system drivers, ASIO and WASAPI.

When you have time, please choose one of those and let me know where to get it. I'll buy one and see if we can't get it working for you.

I had trouble on one a few weeks ago in a demo until I changed the DSP Studio/Output Settings/Source bit depth.

Alex B · « **Reply #30 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:54:19 pm »

Quote from: glynor on January 25, 2010, 03:25:50 pm

I think when I get the chance, I'm going to just Foobar my existing DTS-WAV files into multichannel FLAC files. That seems like a much better long-term plan. Sure, they might be bigger, but I don't really care (disk space is cheap).

Ever heard about LossyWav or lossy FLAC?

(It is an effective way to compress lossless files to a smaller audibly lossless format that is still fully compatible with the existing decoders (e.g. FLAC). It doesn't add similar lossy artifacts like DTS, AC3, MP3 and all other usual lossy formats. It only reduces the bith depth when it can be done inaudibly. It may add background noise, but only when that is supposed to be masked by the audio content. In my experience DTS and DD convert nicely to lossy FLAC without any additional artifacs. Lossy FLAC may still be bigger than the highly compressed source format, but a lot smaller than a truly lossless format. More info: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lossywav)

GreggP · « **Reply #31 on:** January 25, 2010, 04:08:23 pm »

I'm still not having much luck after trying both glynor's suggestions (btw, thanks for jumping in to help out).

Something is very strange here. When I navigate to a folder that contains my DTS files, they appear in the list. In the far left column, instead of showing a musical note icon, it displays just a little dot. Now if I use Windows explorer to copy and paste one of these DTS files into the same folder, for example, I copied a file named "01-Movin In'.dts" and created "01-Movin In' - Copy.dts". Then, after navigating out of this folder and back into it, the new "01-Movin In' - Copy.dts" file is included in the list. However, the icon on the far left is the musical note and it can play. There is no difference between these two files except the file name. After checking the tags, I see that both show 'File Type' = dts. This would be really tedious, but I could just copy all of these, delete the originals and then rename the copies.

mojave · « **Reply #32 on:** January 25, 2010, 04:23:16 pm »

I have DTS audio files that play fine. Mine have an extension of .wav. When I tagged them I set their File Type as DTS. In Tool > Options > File Types I have the Playback Method for DTS set to JRiver audio engine (using DirectShow filter). The only filter I selected was ffdshow. In ffdshow under Codecs I have libdts selected as the codec for DTS. I also checked "Check for DTS in WAV" at the bottom of the page after I clicked on DTS. Also on the Codecs page, Uncompressed is set to "All Supported."

When I check the filter chain in GraphStudio, it shows the audio file, Wave Parser, ffdshow audio decoder, and the Default DirectSound Device.

Edit: I see that Glynor posted basically the same thing above. I skimmed the posts too quick before I posted. I will point out that rather than changing extensions of files, I found that it is easier just to change their File Type tag.

glynor · « **Reply #33 on:** January 25, 2010, 04:40:30 pm »

Quote from: GreggP on January 25, 2010, 04:08:23 pm

I'm still not having much luck after trying both glynor's suggestions (btw, thanks for jumping in to help out).

Something is very strange here. When I navigate to a folder that contains my DTS files, they appear in the list. In the far left column, instead of showing a musical note icon, it displays just a little dot.

The previous files had already been analyzed by MC and determined to be data type (the default if MC can't play them natively). If a file is set to the Data Media Type, MC WILL NOT even attempt to play it internally (though if you have another player associated with the file type in Windows, then it should open in that external player). You can either manually select these and change the [Media Type] tag from Data to Audio, or (more easily) just delete them out of your library and re-import them.

Sounds like your problem is solved, you just didn't know it yet.

GreggP · « **Reply #34 on:** January 25, 2010, 07:32:14 pm »

Quote from: glynor on January 25, 2010, 04:40:30 pm

The previous files had already been analyzed by MC and determined to be data type (the default if MC can't play them natively). If a file is set to the Data Media Type, MC WILL NOT even attempt to play it internally (though if you have another player associated with the file type in Windows, then it should open in that external player). You can either manually select these and change the [Media Type] tag from Data to Audio, or (more easily) just delete them out of your library and re-import them.

Sounds like your problem is solved, you just didn't know it yet.

Yup, I think I have it working now and like you said, it was probably working earlier, but because MC14 originally couldn't play them, it wouldn't play even after setting the file type correctly.

It's too bad these DTS files don't store metadata like FLAC, WMA, OFF, MP, etc., etc... I'm tempted to just convert to FLAC as well.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: playing DTS (Read 14778 times)