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[jmone]

There have been 158 upgrades to V14 - each time I just install the new version and everthing is fine....no need to reconfigure, all my stuff is as it was setup and customised....I love it!

But what I hate is that every year or so we get a new Major Ver, eg V15, and have the "joy" of reconfiguring a "new" app, including many of it's internal settings, customisations, buttons, 3rd party plugins, 3rd party scripts.   "Restore Settings" does little to replicate these things well (in my latest attempt it does not even let me choose WASAPI), much less put my Custom TheaterView Buttons in or work with the scripts I've written to handled Blu-ray, etc etc.....

I'm happy to be told otherwise but my impression is that the move from a Point Upgrade to a Major Release is just an arbitrary line in the sand and there is no technical reason we "have" to have a "new" app (please let me know if this is wrong).   Really - its all a royal PITA.  I'd love a licencing model where you pay an initial Licence Fee that included the App and 1 year of Updates (eg your Initial $49.98 Purchase) then each year after that a renewal fee for the next 12months of updates (eg your $24.98 upgrade fee).....we could then just have MC always just install its updates to the same directory, registry settings, app name?  I really don't care if the Splash screen says it V14, 15 or 2010....

Thanks
Nathan

.....the good news is I can confirm MC it now longer crashes on "restore settings" but you still can not just "restore settings" eg "restore library" must also be checked or you get an error (eg my HTPC uses the Library Server so I don't want to restore a library just the settings.....)

[Alex B]

For commercial reasons, I think JRiver needs (and deserves) to have the about yearly boost of publicity and sales that is caused by the new version launch.

As long as the beta is considered experimental I think many beta users want to keep it separate. The new beta may look like a direct continuation of the previous version, but the separate program instance makes possible to experiment with wild ideas that might break compatibility with older builds.

I am sure that if the "restore settings" feature is not working properly many of the problems can be fixed, but perhaps not without our help. So, please, instead of telling that there are lots of problems, report exactly what did not work and if needed, provide instructions to reproduce each individual issue. The problem with installed third party components is obvious, but touching that would be like opening a can of worms. There is no way to know if the components are compatible with the changed and new features.

I think that in addition to having the settings stored in a library backup file the installer could provide a real upgrade feature for the first time install once the program is not anymore considered wildly experimental. Perhaps it would be easier to create the feature now when the program versions are not too far apart from each other and keep its existence in mind while the program is developed. However, that would possibly create a situation in which the installer would need to warn about incompatible third party components and perhaps have a mechanism to disable them if needed. (For instance, Firefox has that kind of system.)

EDIT

Personally, I did not experience any big problems with restoring the settings. The only issue was with my custom thumbnail location. MC15 copied the custom registry setting when the library backup file was restored and 760 MB of thumbnails were erased from my custom location so I lost them in MC14 too. I should have remembered that and either temporarily changed the path or created a new backup copy of the thumbnails so that I could have restored them for MC14 after pointing the path to a new location for MC15. I could copy the thumbnail files from one of the other PCs, but then I would also need to copy a slightly older version of my main MC14 library.

This is an example of customization that cannot be expected to be handled by the "restore" feature.

EDIT 2

....the good news is I can confirm MC it now longer crashes on "restore settings" but you still can not just "restore settings" eg "restore library" must also be checked or you get an error (eg my HTPC uses the Library Server so I don't want to restore a library just the settings.....)

You could create and back up a new separate library on MC14 and restore it to a new separate library on MC15. It would restore the settings that are not library specific. This library could be empty or perhaps include some imported files (I don't know if a library needs to contain files when it is restored).

[JimH]

Yours after a Red Wine (or two) ...

Two?

[JimH]

As long as the beta is considered experimental I think many beta users want to keep it separate. The new beta may look like a direct continuation of the previous version, but the separate program instance makes possible to experiment with wild ideas that might break compatibility with older builds.

Correct.  And it scares away people who shouldn't be using it.

No matter what we do, we take a little criticism (or a lot sometimes).  The system we have works well for us.  It took a while to get it to this point.

[MrHaugen]

I agree that it might be a pain to upgrade sometimes, but the new settings backup system should prevent the worst of it I hope. If it does not include all, we should inform what is missing.

One thing that have annoyed my a bit as well is the thumbnail building that is happening every time you restore a backup. If we could have a option to include THIS in the backup as well, you don't have to be a computer geek to prevent the thumbnail rebuild for hours and hours. I know that this can take a lot of MB's, and is not particularly needed or wanted in normal backups, but a way to do this the times you KNOW you have to restore, would be nice.

[Matt]

I am sure that if the "restore settings" feature is not working properly many of the problems can be fixed, but perhaps not without our help. So, please, instead of telling that there are lots of problems, report exactly what did not work and if needed, provide instructions to reproduce each individual issue.

Quoted for truth.

[hit_ny]

One thing that have annoyed my a bit as well is the thumbnail building that is happening every time you restore a backup. If we could have a option to include THIS in the backup as well, you don't have to be a computer geek to prevent the thumbnail rebuild for hours and hours. I know that this can take a lot of MB's, and is not particularly needed or wanted in normal backups, but a way to do this the times you KNOW you have to restore, would be nice.

Won't work with a restore, restore kills the thumbs cache

That's why the copy over has to be file for file and thats what the new versions do with the previous library.

[jmone]

Two?

It is always two officer!  ....you just change the size of the glass for the occasion

As usual - I'll happily post any specific bugs in the appropriate thread when I've got any specifics nailed.  This post was more about the entire process and end user as to go through.  For many, MC is now forms a part of an overall Media Eco System and it's not just a standalone app, the separate install means many thing now have to be deliberately updated and changed (both internally and external) as you can not install over the top. 

I'm still not convined that either the Commercial perspective or "Beta" tag precludes the technical ability to do an "over the top" install that has worked so easily for the last 158 times.

Thanks
Nathan

[drosoph]

Just a quick FYI -- All MC14 & MC15 settings are stored in the Registry.  Go to your registry, copy the keys for MC14 in both Local User and Local Machine ... export the .reg files, open in Notepad, do a replace of all MEDIA CENTER 14 with MEDIA CENTER 15 ... import back in.

Also, there will be a BIT of an issue with the library locations or anything localized that has the original defaults in the \Media Center 14\ directory structure.    Just go back in and change these, and it will work again.

Nothing to it!

Also, the reg key for the thumbnails I overwrote a LONG time ago to point to a mapped drive "T:\Thumbnails" so that I wouldn't have to keep moving it around.  This also allows me to map the drive remotely from all PCs in my house and we share the same thumbnails database (no need to recreate the thumbnails on everyone's PC). 

Even better, for MC14 and MC15, the library structure appears to be identical, so there was no rebuild and no issue with running them at the same time across the same library files ... no corruption (YET!)

[JimH]

... All MC14 & MC15 settings are stored in the Registry.  Go to your registry, copy the keys for MC14 in both Local User and Local Machine ... export the .reg files, open in Notepad, do a replace of all MEDIA CENTER 14 with MEDIA CENTER 15 ... import back in.

Since beta testers are (mostly) Real Men, it would be nice if you DO NOT do this, but instead try the new feature that imports settings to MC15 from a backup of MC14.  In MC 15, just restore an MC14 backup and check the option for settings.

[raym]

Also, the reg key for the thumbnails I overwrote a LONG time ago to point to a mapped drive "T:\Thumbnails" so that I wouldn't have to keep moving it around.  This also allows me to map the drive remotely from all PCs in my house and we share the same thumbnails database (no need to recreate the thumbnails on everyone's PC). 

I tried this long ago and it worked up to a point but I found that more than 1 client updating the same thumbs db eventually corrupts it and results in a loss of all thumbs. 

[gappie]

Since beta testers are (mostly) Real Men, it would be nice if you DO NOT do this, but instead try the new feature that imports settings to MC15 from a backup of MC14.  In MC 15, just restore an MC14 backup and check the option for settings.

im still suprised about how smooth that went.. what a relief.. and checking the settings after that is always good.. just in case, and you might stumble over something that you forgot, or was never interested in, or was added and you missed the briefing.
i think building thumbs is actually not that a problem as long as mc is not getting into video files to take screens. since they are taken in the first second they dont make me happy, so i turned the building of video thumbs of and added screenshots or even dummy shots for the ones i have not setup. building thumbs is not as heavy than. it takes time but it wont stall the machine as is happening when it gets its own screen from the files (playback stops and everything has to wait until its finished) but that was only 10 minutes for my 55 homevideo files.
 
gab

[jmone]

I'm going to go through the process of upgrade everthing by Monday to V15 and I'll update the post on what steps I go through etc:

Main PC / MC Server:  Should be straight forward as while this one is used to serving the rest and tagging, editing, adding etc it is used little for playback.  The following took about 40 minutes to do (and I recon I knew most of where to go and what to do):
* Install MC15 (express settings, all media options)
* Cancel Auto Import
* Go to Restore Library + Settings.  Find no recent Library.  Close MC15.  Run MC14 (press UAC lots).  Backup Library.  Close MC14.  Close LS.  Run MC15 (press UAC lots).  Restore Library and Settings
* Cancel Auto Import again

This did not take long and the results look OK.

* Close MC15
* Go to Apps folder and copy Thumbs DB from the MC14 folder to the MC15 folder for the same reg key...woops I moved to copied, do again
* Create a share to the MC15 library folder so other PC's can see it
* Pin MC15 to task bar
* Start MC15 (more UAC again)
* Check Settings and make a few changes (a couple of changes in my preferences, some are bugs - posted in other thread)
* Go to check/load plugins and FFDSHOW tries to load and MC15 crashes
* Rerun MC15 and think best to test playback at this stage.  All works fine (including TV and EPC) + filters are set as with MC14 (ffdshow loads fine)
* I only use two plugins (Last FM / EQDB), click on the link to the Web Page, find EQDB, download and install by clicking on the mjp file - says it installed correctly.  
* Having problems working out if the plug in are working.  Seems at some stage I've deleted some of my custom EQDB settings

Items still to do:
1) Check on my plug ins
2) Check DLNA / LS streaming and control is setup correctly once I've upgraded the other PC.

HTPC:  I expect this one to take longer as I've got 3rd party scripts running on this one.  [EDIT] OK - only about 5mins longer at around 45mins to update with much the same process as above, the differences were:
* MC14 Back up library from the Network Share Library
* Install MC15 - got a "Last FM is not the current version"
* In Library Mgr - rename the details of my Network Share Library to point at the new MC15 share from above.  Find I'd not set the permissions correctly - go to server, fix, do again
* In Library Mgr - try to delete the library that was restored as part of the install.  Can not do it.  Close and restart MC15 and now it will let the "Default" be transferred to Library Server Library
* Custom Theater View buttons came across - nice!  My "Library Sync Button" not working.  Change target app to from MC14.exe to MC15.exe in the Windows folder
* Run MC14 to turn off "Run on Windows Start-up"
* Edit script that runs MC14 (to MC15) when pressing stop when playing a Blu-ray disk in TMT

Kids Laptops:  Should be easiest of all [EDIT] - takes about 20min each.  The only difference on these is if you want to copy the Tumbnails I had to first "show" hidden files / folders to see the appdata area, do the copy, then rehide.


Edit: MMMMM can almost taste that big serving of Humble Pie - The upgrade took about 2 hours so while it is much slower than an over the top install it was not as bad as I expected....would hate to be a newbie trying all of this but then again a newbie is unlikly to have such a setup.

[rjm]

Also, the reg key for the thumbnails I overwrote a LONG time ago to point to a mapped drive "T:\Thumbnails" so that I wouldn't have to keep moving it around.  This also allows me to map the drive remotely from all PCs in my house and we share the same thumbnails database (no need to recreate the thumbnails on everyone's PC). 

Interesting idea. I was under the impression that MC performance is super sensitive to thumbnail cache speed and did not think it would work well accross a network.

I went a different path and maintain a copy of the thumbnail cache on each system which I update daily from the master. My cache size is over 2GB so syncing was a pain until I found a backup program that only copies the bits of the cache that changed and thus backup is fast and convenient.

[hit_ny]

Interesting idea. I was under the impression that MC performance is super sensitive to thumbnail cache speed and did not think it would work well accross a network.

I guess it depends on whether its a Gig network or not. Which works out to about avg 75MB/s transfer speed or ~25% slower than internal HDD read speed (upto SATA 3). Any congestion on the network and this access speed will come down. So my guess is it kinda works but can be slow some times.

Alex did not recommend it back in 2006

I have noticed that the library and especially the thumbnails folder need fast drive access to work smoothly. The best place is a fast internal HD or if the drive is external it should be connected with Firewire or USB2. A network drive or shared folder has always a lot slower access time and data transfer speed even on a fast wired LAN.

[Alex B]

* I only use two plugins (Last FM / EQDB), click on the link to the Web Page, find EQDB, download and install by clicking on the mjp file - says it installed correctly.  
* Having problems working out if the plug in are working.  Seems at some stage I've deleted some of my custom EQDB settings

Can you actually see these two plugins in Plugin Manager or in tree?

I can't use either of them.

Last.fm:

int_AudioScrobbler.dll is in the plugin folder, but it doesn't show up inside MC. I don't know if this is caused by the restored settings or if the same problem exist with the default settings. I tested if extracting the int_AudioScrobbler.dll and int_AudioScrobbler.mjp files from the installer package and installing the plugin separately would help, but it didn't.

EQdb:

MC15 displays the usual "Package was installed succesfully" message after runnig the mjp file, but the plugin does not appear inside MC.

[gappie]

Last.fm:

int_AudioScrobbler.dll is in the plugin folder, but it doesn't show up inside MC. I don't know if this is caused by the restored settings or if the same problem exist with the default settings. I tested if extracting the int_AudioScrobbler.dll and int_AudioScrobbler.mjp files from the installer package and installing the plugin separately would help, but it didn't.

i saw the same when after upgrading to 15.04.
this was the solution i found

for some reason last fm was missing in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JRiver\Media Center 15\Plugins\Interface\last.fm
i saved the mc 14 setting for this from the registry and changed 14 to 15 and ran it, and there it was, and is working again.

 
gab

[jmone]

Alex - exaclty the same experience from my end on two machines.  I did see a error msg on one install staying that the LastFM plug in is the wrong version.

Gab - thanks I saw that "fix" but I figure I'll wait to check a new installer package works OK with the JR lads get to it (posted in the V 0.7 thread)  I can live without both plug-ins for now. 

I'm also missing the WASAPI Output plug in - anyone else?

[gappie]

Gab - thanks I saw that "fix" but I figure I'll wait to check a new installer package works OK with the JR lads get to it (posted in the V 0.7 thread)  I can live without both plug-ins for now.  

it was not ment to be a fix, not here, not then, just trying to pinpoint the bug as good as i can.
 
gab