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[maid]

What filters are best for MKV playback.

Mine are a bit twitchy.

[jmone]

MKV is a container that can hold just about any Video or Audio codec you can think of (as well as subtitles, chapter info etc etc).  I use:
- Haali Media Splitter
- FFDSHOW for Audio and Video
- Haali Video Renderer

Thanks
Nathan

[aksdb]

DivX comes with a MKV splitter as well.

[maid]

Thanks for the help I will try those settings.

[221bBS]

I would install a codec pack.

CCCP is recommended by JR.

http://cccp-project.net/

I like K-Lite.

http://www.codecguide.com/index.html

[maid]

I use cccp and coreavc

[221bBS]

Bit curious as to what type of MKV you are having trouble with? Are the videos 1080 by chance?

[maid]

No they are not.

They are my own conversions with DVDFAB.

Cheers

[MrHaugen]

You can't beat CCCP in conjunction with CoreAVC imo. It's fast to install and set up the CCCP (default works for most people). Most stuff works with CCCP, and CoreAVC is the only codec I have successfully gotten a completely stutter free picture from 1080P content.

[Britinva]

So what are the best DVD to MKV converters?

I've been using Handbrake

[gappie]

So what are the best DVD to MKV converters?

I've been using Handbrake

the user daydream suggested a while back MakeMKV, its free and works nicely. been happy with that ever since.

 
gab

[Daydream]

the user daydream suggested a while back MakeMKV, its free and works nicely. been happy with that ever since.

Just an update on that, since probably the author of MakeMKV considers that now his product is full-featured, it's not completely free anymore. DVD and AVC disc handling are still free, Blu-Ray (meaning dealing with encryption and creating MKV) requires a license ($50). At least that's the way I understand it.
As a user of AnyDVD I can live just fine with a pre-final version since I don't require any other encryption handling options. Just mentioning.

[maid]

I can still see a slight jump maybe I am being to critical.

[jmone]

I can still see a slight jump maybe I am being to critical.

...not critical...but the start of the obsesion that bits as all (smooth playback)!

Do you mean by jump a regular video stutter every xx seconds while the audio is fine?

[maid]

Yes i think so its almost like when they turn their heads its jerky but its oh so slight lol

You are right I think this does become an obsession.

I used to covert to AVI but thought MKV may be better, what are your thoughts?

[jmone]

AVI and MKV are just containers are really don't have much to do with how the Video and Audio streams that they contain are played. 

Issue #1: What you may be seeing is the issue where the refresh rate of your TV or Monitor is not an exact multiple of the frame rate of your Video stream.  The bigger the screen the more you notice the issue.

If you have a MKV with a 24fps Video Steam, then unless your TV is working at 24, 48, 72, etc hz then your Video card will have to repeat some frames which some people notice.  Eg here in PAL land, if my TV is on 50hz (as normal) and I play at 24fps Video, it will display all frames twice per second BUT 2 frames will have to be played 4 times.....

Issue #2:  There is an internal "clock" used by the PC and HW Players that is used by the Video and Audio Renderers to keep everything in syc.  Unlike with HW Players, the PC uses the Audio stream as the master clock and therefore has to occasional either drop and add a Video frame to keep the two in sync.

The first thing you may like to look at is a process to change your Refresh Rate to match a multiple of your Video Frame rate.  To do this you can set in MC the "Playback Info" that will instruct MC to change the display frequency (and resolution, cropping etc etc) for each video independently.  The other way is you can use Reclock as your Audio renderer that will automatically read the refresh rate required from the media and through a script then change the frequency required.  The second thing that Reclock does is that it change the clock around so that the Audio is the stream changed to keep pace with the Video playback.

All the above is a gross oversimplication of things but welcome to the obsession.

Have fun
Nathan

[maid]

Hi Nathan.

Where is this in MC (set in MC the "Playback Info)

[jmone]

Have a read of this in the Wiki http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/Video_Playback_Customization

[jmone]

also http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/Customisable_Video_Playback

[maid]

Thank you

[jmone]

let us know how you go

[Mr ChriZ]

Regarding Reclock Jmone, do you not get the problem like I described here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=56874.0

It was causing my thumbnails to build really slowly.

[jmone]

Regarding Reclock Jmone, do you not get the problem like I described here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=56874.0

It was causing my thumbnails to build really slowly.

Missed that post sorry - Could be that in the Config Recock app --> Advance Settings Tab --> I have JRWorker set to "Never Load".  Give that a shot as then you have reclock for playback and not for when it adds no value (or in your case makes it worse!)

Thanks
Nathan

[MrHaugen]

You'll notice the stuttering most in great panoramic movements. I like to watch the start of Batman - Dark Knight in 1080P. When the movie zooms in on the building. The panoramic movement in the first Lord of the Rings movie is also great. Where you get a long and uninterrupted panoramic view of the Hobbits Shire or what ever their home is called.

If you set up things correctly (mostly default settings in my case), this sould run very smooth. Note that you probably NEVER gonna get a perfect movement on a computer tough. Standalone DVD og Bluray players have some good hardware which computers and software just can't match I guess.

[flac.rules]

You'll notice the stuttering most in great panoramic movements. I like to watch the start of Batman - Dark Knight in 1080P. When the movie zooms in on the building. The panoramic movement in the first Lord of the Rings movie is also great. Where you get a long and uninterrupted panoramic view of the Hobbits Shire or what ever their home is called.

If you set up things correctly (mostly default settings in my case), this sould run very smooth. Note that you probably NEVER gonna get a perfect movement on a computer tough. Standalone DVD og Bluray players have some good hardware which computers and software just can't match I guess.

I dont agree, you get stuttering on all 24 fps-material, the framerate is just to low. However you get worse stuttering if you don't run your computer at 23.97 fps. But if you do that, its not better or worse than stqndalone players.

[jmone]

I dont agree, you get stuttering on all 24 fps-material, the framerate is just to low. However you get worse stuttering if you don't run your computer at 23.97 fps. But if you do that, its not better or worse than standalone players.

We all go to the movies and never complain about how stuttery it all was....and it is all shot at 24fps.  Certainly there is a good discusion that lower resolution / higher frame rates (eg 720/50 or 60p) is more suited to Sports broadcasting but for Movies, it all is shot in 24p.  Also the slight differences between 23.97 and 24 is easily handled by today's equipment (both PC and CE) and is a red herring for most seeking smooth video playback.  The two factors you need are:
1) Refresh Rates = Frame Rate (or a multiple)
2) Ability to keep Audio and Video in sync by adjusting the Audio playback (not the Video)


Edit - that said there are still some issue with PC HW / SW over CE Devices, eg Intel's G33/G35 does not support 24hz correctly, there may be filter issues, lack of processing power etc etc that can all cause stutter.  Also some source content is poorly encoded (I used to use Planet Earth (BBC verions) as a test disk for its great pans etc but found that some judder is in the source as it was recorded at a mix of resolutions and frame rates then encoded as 1080/24p).  I just watched a Blu-ray movie and it was perfectly smooth for the entire playback on a 60" TV, and I am a judder noticing fanatic!  The net is full of half truths and individual perceptions on this stuff so take my advice with a grain of salt as and I'm sure I am no different!

Edit2 - FYI my setup is TMT3 for Blu-ray playback, using Reclock to set the refresh rate to 24hz(ish) and keeping the Audio sycned to the Video (not the other way around), outputting over HDMI from a ATIHD5450 to a Yami V2700 and onto a Pio 60" Plasma.  I get full resolution Audio and smooth 1080/24p playback.

See the thread at http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=55171.0 for more on Blu-ray and MC

[flac.rules]

We all go to the movies and never complain about how stuttery it all was....and it is all shot at 24fps.  Certainly there is a good discusion that lower resolution / higher frame rates (eg 720/50 or 60p) is more suited to Sports broadcasting but for Movies, it all is shot in 24p.  Also the slight differences between 23.97 and 24 is easily handled by today's equipment (both PC and CE) and is a red herring for most seeking smooth video playback.  The two factors you need are:
1) Refresh Rates = Frame Rate (or a multiple)
2) Ability to keep Audio and Video in sync by adjusting the Audio playback (not the Video)


Edit - that said there are still some issue with PC HW / SW over CE Devices, eg Intel's G33/G35 does not support 24hz correctly, there may be filter issues, lack of processing power etc etc that can all cause stutter.  Also some source content is poorly encoded (I used to use Planet Earth (BBC verions) as a test disk for its great pans etc but found that some judder is in the source as it was recorded at a mix of resolutions and frame rates then encoded as 1080/24p).  I just watched a Blu-ray movie and it was perfectly smooth for the entire playback on a 60" TV, and I am a judder noticing fanatic!  The net is full of half truths and individual perceptions on this stuff so take my advice with a grain of salt as and I'm sure I am no different!

Edit2 - FYI my setup is TMT3 for Blu-ray playback, using Reclock to set the refresh rate to 24hz(ish) and keeping the Audio sycned to the Video (not the other way around), outputting over HDMI from a ATIHD5450 to a Yami V2700 and onto a Pio 60" Plasma.  I get full resolution Audio and smooth 1080/24p playback.

See the thread at http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=55171.0 for more on Blu-ray and MC

I can only speak for myself, but i clearly see that movies at the sinema are stuttery, and I suspect other people does it too, when you run material at 60 fps, people says things like "it looks like a documentary" and the sort. Because they are used too the stuttering of 24 fps in the cinema.

My point about framerat was just that you should nmatch the source, the source is 23.97, so might as well run refresh rate at 23.97 instead of 24, at least my GPU supports this fine.

[jmone]

My point about framerat was just that you should match the source, the source is 23.97, so might as well run refresh rate at 23.97 instead of 24, at least my GPU supports this fine.

I agree - pick whatever refresh rate is "the same" or a multiple of the source.  (FYI - No card actually does exactly 24, 23.97 regardless of what the control panel says and it does not matter.  Over the years I've tried tiny changes to low level settings to advance and retard the real frequency around these figures and on a system that judders, it does not remove it, it just changes the frequency and length.)

[glynor]

I can only speak for myself, but i clearly see that movies at the sinema are stuttery, and I suspect other people does it too, when you run material at 60 fps, people says things like "it looks like a documentary" and the sort. Because they are used too the stuttering of 24 fps in the cinema.

I did a terrible job trying to explain this, and I'm going to stop and try again later.  What you are almost certainly seeing, however, is an effect called strobing that is part of the actual recorded frames on film or the video file.  This has to do with the way a film camera's shutter works, and is generally much more apparent in slightly-too-fast pans, or telephoto pans of a lot of scenery.

[maid]

Funny played an MKV last night no stutter.

I have no used reclock yet as I have read too many bad things about it.

Where does one set the refresh rate?

[jmone]

Funny played an MKV last night no stutter.

Great - no need to change anything then!

I have no used reclock yet as I have read too many bad things about it.

 Non that I know off.

Where does one set the refresh rate?

In MC? or with reclock or ??

[flac.rules]

I did a terrible job trying to explain this, and I'm going to stop and try again later.  What you are almost certainly seeing, however, is an effect called strobing that is part of the actual recorded frames on film or the video file.  This has to do with the way a film camera's shutter works, and is generally much more apparent in slightly-too-fast pans, or telephoto pans of a lot of scenery.

I don't know the exact reasons, but 24 fps is clearly not as smooth in movement as higher framerates, and it makes a lot of sense, 24 fps is very low, and clearly picture would be better (better, as in more lifelike), with higher framerates.

[jmone]

I don't know the exact reasons, but 24 fps is clearly not as smooth in movement as higher framerates, and it makes a lot of sense, 24 fps is very low, and clearly picture would be better (better, as in more lifelike), with higher framerates.

I agree.  Unfortunatly the film industry still shots in 24p... also while most shot for TV content is 50 or 60hz, it is interlaced.

[shAf]

What filters are best for MKV playback.

Mine are a bit twitchy.

I too have trouble with MKVs.  I've been able to play most with the CCCP package, but few still refuse to play properly (ie, sound only).

Can I ask ... why MKV?  IE, if it's just a container (eg, AVI), what are its advantages (eg, over AVI)?

[Daydream]

Can I ask ... why MKV?  IE, if it's just a container (eg, AVI), what are its advantages (eg, over AVI)?

Are flames allowed if people are asking too basic questions? I'm kidding.

AVI was invented by MS in early 90s to deal with the AV realities of that time. Without going to great lengths of technobabble, let's just say that you can't push everything you want into an AVI file and still make it play properly. The format specs just doesn't allowed for many features that today's users might need. It had a problem with files over 2GB in size. The Open DML Avi was invented to overcome that. Then these guys came with moderns codecs, there are variable bitrates for both audio and video. Over-simplifying, in a  file of given length, the 100.000 video frame is not right next to the 100.000 audio frame. But you need to keep the video playing in sync with audio, and at the same time deal with other things that have been put inside the container.

Which in these days means that I may want to put lossless audio in it, and 16 subtitles (if I'm part of the fansub scene), I want to add chapters, I may even want to add ordered chapters that play in sequence different versions of the movie (the equivalent of seamless branching on a DVD), I'd like to link certain files by some explicit logic, I may want to even embed other binaries inside the container - fonts, picture covers, 3 elephants, etc.

Also from a dev. point of view, I don't want to worry that the format I'm working with won't be able to deal with some crazy cool audio or video format that will be invented tomorrow. MKV allows for that, because that's the way it was put together as a container.

That's what makes MKV robust, versatile and flexible. 3 things that AVI isn't. If certain users are still living in the confined world of 350MB Xvid+mp3 encodes, they should open their eyes, the AV world is a lot bigger today. And way more complex.


After I wrote the above, I decided to add a part 2, which is less on the point and more political (hehe). Not aimed at anybody specifically... or aimed at everybody, any way you like it. There is a reason why CCCP is recommended. Because doing these 1-to-1 clarifications (OK, maybe 1-to-15, depending how many people will read this) it pains the people that do know, to no end. Because there appears to be an unlimited number of people that don't know, that come and ask again. However, there is only one way to become master of your own domain, and that is by learning. By reading. And not by blindly installing a thing and then throw your hands in the air in utter joy or despair depending if the "magic" of the newly installed thing worked or not.

[glynor]

Political and ideological considerations aside, one technical reason many people prefer the MKV container to, say, the MP4 container, is that MKV fully supports embedded AC3 audio, and the ISO spec for MP4 does not (though there are ways to do it, they are hacks and not universally supported by complaint players).  There are a few other issues with the MP4 container (mostly releated to chaptering and soft-subtitles), in addition to it's comparably limited codec support.

AVI is old and has lots of technical problems.  One of the more common modern problems (not overcome completely by the Open DML AVI extensions) is that support for AVC (H.264) compression is limited and problematic because of limited support for B-frames.  Newer versions of FFDSHOW and x264 can overcome these problems, but it requires you to take special steps when encoding the video.  There is also no official support for embedded metadata or tags (again, hackable, but not universally supported).  There are many other limitations of AVI as well: fast-seeking can be problematic, they are not streamable, and they can't have menu systems and interactive content (without third-party extensions that may or may not be supported on the playback device).

So, it comes down to this... Why not just use a modern container format?

[maid]

I must say I read most of the stuff on this forum and have learned a lot and there are many very helpful people here.

Thanks to all those who have helped.

[jmone]

So, it comes down to this... Why not just use a modern container format?

MKV is a great container, the only issue I have is the lack of support by many CE devices.

[glynor]

MKV is a great container, the only issue I have is the lack of support by many CE devices.

Agreed.  If I'm encoding using H264 and AAC or MP3 audio (usually stereo), I tend to use MP4 containers because they are a bit more universally compatible.  Works nice for many CE devices if you choose your profiles well, and works well with a Wowza or Adobe streaming server.  If I'm encoding with surround AC3 audio, in 1080 or 720p, for use primarily on my HTPC or some other computer-based playback system, then I tend to use MKV.  For cutting, I tend to use ProRes MOV intermediary files (or DVCProHD if I shot it myself), since I'm a Final Cut guy.

I left the AVI container behind when I stopped using XviD.

[maid]

I have encoded Avatar and when they pan over the trees it is jumpy.

Where do I check my Video frame rate?

[Daydream]

I have encoded Avatar and when they pan over the trees it is jumpy.

Where do I check my Video frame rate?

For the only 2 people on the planet that haven't see Avatar yet, video framerate data is on the Giant tree, first column, secondary ring! What the flip, this was supposed to be common knowledge!  



...Either in the decoder filter - where available, say ffdshow (DXVA) -> Info & CPU section, or check the renderer filter (EVR, etc) for the Average frame rate achieved. That is while you play; a broken DirectShow filter chain will make matters worse. MediaInfo is good to check the file itself, without playing. While unlikely, check to see the file didn't get encoded with other specs then originally intended.

[jmone]

It could be a few things.

1) As daydreams suggests your PC/SW may be stuggling with decoding the high bit rate scene.  What CPU, Memory, and Video Card do you have?  Also post your filter information (while playing, right click --> direct show filter --> copy to clipboard)

2) What is the source material, DVD / Blu-ray / other and what format is your Video Card outputting, eg 1920x1080 @ 60hz how is it connected to your TV/Monitor?

[maid]

You can't beat CCCP in conjunction with CoreAVC imo. It's fast to install and set up the CCCP (default works for most people). Most stuff works with CCCP, and CoreAVC is the only codec I have successfully gotten a completely stutter free picture from 1080P content.

I am using 2008 CCCP I have tried updating to the new beta but I get conflicts with my av amp. Do you know the correct setting to use Spdif??

[maid]

MKV is a container that can hold just about any Video or Audio codec you can think of (as well as subtitles, chapter info etc etc).  I use:
- Haali Media Splitter
- FFDSHOW for Audio and Video
- Haali Video Renderer

Thanks
Nathan

What do you put in the other filters as there are so many?? you say FFDSHOW audio and video which ones??

[jmone]

FFDSHOW consists of two filters, one for Audio and one for Video.  One of the benefits of FFDSHOW (apart from the active open source comunity development) is that these two filters handle just about every Video and Audio codec out there PLUS it has a ton of inbuilt post processing options.  There is some argument that some specialised filters are better for particular codecs (eg CoreAVC for x264 Video) but in practice I find FFDSHOW is all you need as a starting point.  The downside of FFDSHOW is that if has so many options you can tweak if is not for everyone. 

Along with the Haali splitter, the CCCP codec pack includes FFDSHOW with some of the settings tweaked so in practice you should be good to go.  I'd only be installing other Filters if there is something you particularly need that is not in CCCP.  I must admit that I've uninstalled CCCP (along with most other filters/filter packs) as I now periodically install the updates from:
- FFDSHOW: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ffdshow-tryout/ with its forum here http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=120465
- Haali: http://haali.su/mkv/
+ some specialised filters for particular transcoding tasks

I know it is tempting to keep installing filters in the hope it will fix some issue, but I've found the opposite in that keeping the number of filters on your system to just the ones you need really helps. 

[maid]

FFDSHOW consists of two filters, one for Audio and one for Video.  One of the benefits of FFDSHOW (apart from the active open source comunity development) is that these two filters handle just about every Video and Audio codec out there PLUS it has a ton of inbuilt post processing options.  There is some argument that some specialised filters are better for particular codecs (eg CoreAVC for x264 Video) but in practice I find FFDSHOW is all you need as a starting point.  The downside of FFDSHOW is that if has so many options you can tweak if is not for everyone. 

Along with the Haali splitter, the CCCP codec pack includes FFDSHOW with some of the settings tweaked so in practice you should be good to go.  I'd only be installing other Filters if there is something you particularly need that is not in CCCP.  I must admit that I've uninstalled CCCP (along with most other filters/filter packs) as I now periodically install the updates from:
- FFDSHOW: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ffdshow-tryout/ with its forum here http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=120465
- Haali: http://haali.su/mkv/
+ some specialised filters for particular transcoding tasks

I know it is tempting to keep installing filters in the hope it will fix some issue, but I've found the opposite in that keeping the number of filters on your system to just the ones you need really helps. 

Thank you so much for the info.

I was asking which filters to use when setting up JRiver for playing MKV

[jmone]

Thank you so much for the info.

I was asking which filters to use when setting up JRiver for playing MKV

Your MKV files are actually a "container" that can have multiple tracks inside it such as Video, Audio, Subtitles, Chapters etc etc.  You system needs the ability to both OPEN then MKV container, AND the ability to handle that multiple Video, Audio formats that can be inside this.  As a minimum, you will need something like:
1) Haali Splitter - this will read and open the MKV File, then send the Video and Audio tracks to any compatible Video and Audio Filter Decoder Filter you have on your system such as:
2) FFDSHOW - these will then decode the Video and Audio tracks and send them to any compatible Video and Audio Renderer Filters (which will already be installed on your systems but will be either be VMR, EVR, or Haali Video Renderers for Video and Directshow or WASAPI for Audio and these are the bits that sent the finished Video and Audio to your TV / Receiver or Monitor / Speakers)

[maid]

Is this acceptable?

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8058/67431386.png

[jmone]

For what it is worth, here is mine:

[maid]

Fantastic. thank you. Do you use those if you are using passthrough