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[rob77]

Hi,

I recently purchased a Scarlatti Upsampler to connect my Scarlatti Dac and Clock to my dedicated audio pc and downloaded JRiver, as I proved with previous equipment that it sound great, apart from having a very nice interface.

Now I am trying to use the Upsmapler with Wasapi. While with Asio4all it works fine, with Wasapi there is no way I can get it work fine. I followed all the indications for JRiver from the dCS computer guide recently published, but the best result I achieved was by setting the buffer to the minimum allowed (0,05) and not 0,50 as indicated.

Sound quality is great and far better than Asio4all, but from time to time (say once in minute more or less) I get very annoying clicks and pops.

I set Win7 according to the guide and I also optimized the OS by disabling many functions and processes, but there is no way I can get rid of this annoying problem.
I also read a couple of threads in this forum about the same problem with dCS, but for me all the advices given  did not work.

Does anyone managed to make this setup work?

Thank you in advance for any advice!

Roberto

[JimH]

Welcome to Interact.  Here's a page where you might find some things to try:
http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/DAC_Settings

[rob77]

Hi Jim,


thanks for your quick reply. Unfortunately I have already checked this document and applied the suggested options, but the result does not change.

[JimH]

What is the full version of MC that you have?

MC15.0.49 is at the top of this board.

Here's another thread on Scarlatti:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=57088.0

Have you tried dCS?  We had another problem (pops and clicks) with one of their DAC's and it turned out to be firmware.

[rob77]

I downloaded the Full version of MC 15 yesterday, so it must be the latest.
As for the firmware, I received my Scarlatti upsampler a few days ago (and I am sure it was coming from the factory, it was not in stock at the retailer) so I suppose it should be the latest firmware version. Beside that, a friend of mine purchased along with me the upsampler and the results are the same, no way of having Wasapi work fine, while for Asio there are no problems.

[JimH]

Go to Help/About.  You'll see the version there.  If you don't have build 49, please try it.

Does it work with Windows Media Player and WASAPI?

[rob77]

I will check the firmware version and will also try with Windows Media Player, as I never tried it.
I tried with foobar and Wasapi and the result is much worse that MC and Wasapi.
I will let you know.
Thanks again.

[JimH]

Please confirm that you tried this:

"You will need to select 24-bit in DSP Studio. High end DACs seem to like 24-bit data. They don't like the default WASAPI option "Present 24-bit data in a 32-bit package". "

[rob77]

already tried.

[JimH]

Go to Help/About.  You'll see the version there.  If you don't have build 49, please try it.

What build are you using?  49 is current.

[rob77]

I confirm I have the current version (49).

[rob77]

Hi,

with the last release of MC, Wasapi is working fine with all 16/44.1 files. Hi res files still have problems, less noticeable and frequent than before.
I hope in the future the problem will be completely solved, I simply do not want to use othe player than MC!
Unfortunately I am facing another problem: I use to control my pc with my iPad via Remote Desktop (via WinAdmin application) and when using Wasapi, as soon as I connect to the pc with my iPad, the music stops and it is impossible to play any file via Wasapi. If I switch to Asio4all, no problems, everything works fine with the iPad. The error message I get is as follows:
"Media Center Encountered errors while trying to play the last several files. Please make sure that the path in your media library points to the right location.
Error details:
Playback could not be started on the output "Wasapi" using the format '44100hz,24 bits per sample, 2 channels'.
This output format may not be supported by your hardware. You can use DSP Studio to change the output to a compatible format.
Also make sure that your system has a valid sopund playback device and that it is properly configured in playback options."

Any suggestion?
Thanks in advance for any advice!

Roberto

[Alex B]

... Unfortunately I am facing another problem: I use to control my pc with my iPad via Remote Desktop (via WinAdmin application) and when using Wasapi, as soon as I connect to the pc with my iPad, the music stops and it is impossible to play any file via Wasapi. If I switch to Asio4all, no problems, everything works fine with the iPad. The error message I get is as follows:
"Media Center Encountered errors while trying to play the last several files. Please make sure that the path in your media library points to the right location.
Error details:
Playback could not be started on the output "Wasapi" using the format '44100hz,24 bits per sample, 2 channels'.
This output format may not be supported by your hardware. You can use DSP Studio to change the output to a compatible format.
Also make sure that your system has a valid sopund playback device and that it is properly configured in playback options."...

WASAPI Exclusive is literally exclusive. Only one program at a time can output audio through it. Probably Remote Desktop connects to the Windows audio interface. If the standard, shared mode is already in use then WASAPI Exclusive cannot work.

However it is odd that already playing music "stops" (...or do you mean that no further files can be played?). I think the first application should continue reserving the audio channel and the later applications should be blocked as long as playback is active. This is what happens to me when I use Terratec's native ASIO driver on XP. ASIO is similarly eclusive. I have not tested this on Windows 7 yet.

[Vincent Kars]

Does it work with Windows Media Player and WASAPI?

The answer is no because WMP doesn't support the WASAPI interface.

[JimH]

The answer is no because WMP doesn't support the WASAPI interface.

That would be news to me.  I see you debating this with Zach from Microsoft here:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsmedia.player/browse_thread/thread/9cf7be7ed07b4efe?pli=1

He's a pretty knowledgeable guy.  So are you, of course....

[JimH]

I use to control my pc with my iPad via Remote Desktop (via WinAdmin application) and when using Wasapi, as soon as I connect to the pc with my iPad, the music stops and it is impossible to play any file via Wasapi. If I switch to Asio4all, no problems ...

You might try using WebRemote to control MC.  It will run in a browser on the iPad.

Read more here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=7.0
or on the wiki.

[rob77]

WASAPI Exclusive is literally exclusive. Only one program at a time can output audio through it. Probably Remote Desktop connects to the Windows audio interface. If the standard, shared mode is already in use then WASAPI Exclusive cannot work.

However it is odd that already playing music "stops" (...or do you mean that no further files can be played?). I think the first application should continue reserving the audio channel and the later applications should be blocked as long as playback is active. This is what happens to me when I use Terratec's native ASIO driver on XP. ASIO is similarly eclusive. I have not tested this on Windows 7 yet.

It really happens that way: I am playing a file via Wasapi and as soon as I connect via remote desktop it stops playing. And there is no way to play any file via Wasapi and remote desktop. It is really frustrating as the improvement is noticeable but I cannot remotely control my pc/library.

[Vincent Kars]

He's a pretty knowledgeable guy. 

Zachd is an excellent source indeed ( http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html)

As far as I know, WMP only supports DS and no way to change this.
Well, be glad because WASAPI support was one of my reasons to switch to MC.......

[Vincent Kars]

The Scarlatti up-sampler is one of the first of a steady growing number of new USB audio devices using asynchronous USB.
Normally (adaptive mode) the PC times the data.
An asynchronous node times the data out of the PC. The idea is that if the DAC times the data out of the PC, you can work with a fixed clock and you don't need a sample rate guesser. This solution is supposed to eliminate all input jitter inherent to adaptive mode.

At one hand Scarlatti uses the native mode Windows USB audio drivers. No reason to expect it to behave different from other USB audio devices.
On the other hand, as the DAC does the timing, it probably assumes the data to be send the moment it ask for it.
I wonder how this interacts with the buffer management by MC15

I wonder what happens if you try Foobar/WASAPI or StealthAudioPlayer http://andy-audioplayer.blogspot.com/2009/11/stealthaudioplayer-with-cue-sheet.html
If they fail to , the problem might be the dCS driver in the upsampler

[rob77]

I have tried with Foobar and the problem is the same, no way of using Wasapi correctly. Now, with the last release, MC works fine but only with 16/44.1 file, not with high res files.
The only program that seems to work properly with Wasapi is Mediamonkey. I was suggested to use a particular wasapi plugin by Adionsoft" and this way Mediamonkey works.
The problem is that I do not want to use Mediamonkey, I prefer MC.
I am also pretty sure that part of the problem lies in the Scarlatti Upsampler, and I think will come soon, in a way of firmware update.

At the moment I have plenty of ripped cds, therefore I can accept for the time being to use wasapi for the ripped files and Asio4all for the hd files. The Scarlatti upsampler/ combo does such a good job that ripped files sound amazingly well.

I used to control my pc with an iPad and remote desktop, now the problem is that with Wasapi set, as soon as I start the remote connection, the sound stops. I guess it has something to do with wasapi settings related to the exclusive use of audio devices. Mediamonkey presents the same issue, therefore it is not a problem of MC, but maybe some settings in Windows 7, that I could not figure out yet.

[Vincent Kars]

I used to control my pc with an iPad and remote desktop, now the problem is that with Wasapi set, as soon as I start the remote connection, the sound stops.

That the sound stops sounds plausible to me.
Win (except for the server versions) doesn't allow for more then one user.
So the moment RDP starts, the PC user is logged off and the RDP user is logged in.
This of course killes all applications including MC

But if I do understand correctly, the RDP user is not able to play using WASAPI.
You might check the RDP properties (local sources) but then I'm talking RDP from 1 PC to another. If you have a second PC this might be an option to check if this is iPad related or RDP

BTW: are you using RDP (The windows remote desktop) or is it a VNC client?

[gappie]

I think the first application should continue reserving the audio channel and the later applications should be blocked as long as playback is active. This is what happens to me when I use Terratec's native ASIO driver on XP. ASIO is similarly eclusive. I have not tested this on Windows 7 yet.

for me on asio with xp, this reserving is not what happens. when i startup an application that also wants to use the asio channels, the playback of mc will fall out, or start stuttering, sometimes depending on what has focus.

It really happens that way: I am playing a file via Wasapi and as soon as I connect via remote desktop it stops playing. And there is no way to play any file via Wasapi and remote desktop. It is really frustrating as the improvement is noticeable but I cannot remotely control my pc/library.

when you look at the settings for the remote desktop, you can set how sounds are used from the remote. would it make any difference when you set that to using no sounds?

just an idea
 
gab

[Alex B]

That the sound stops sounds plausible to me.
Win (except for the server versions) doesn't allow for more then one user.
So the moment RDP starts, the PC user is logged off and the RDP user is logged in.
This of course killes all applications including MC...

I forgot that. Thanks for reminding. Compulsory user switching is actually the main reason why I don't use MS Remote Desktop. I prefer to use VNC instead. I want to be able to access the PC and the running programs also locally. I have a Windows 7 PC that I control mostly through UltraVNC server & client. Its small LCD monitor is normally not powered, but I can always quickly switch it on when I happen to be nearby.

[HiFiTubes]

You can use Rivermote, or the built-in WebRemote feature of MC with your iPad. You won't get PC control but I have used an UltraVNC app for my iPhone before so check that out.