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[DarkPenguin]

I think they made me sign one of these when I worked at Xiotech ...

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=18526

[JimH]

I think they made me sign one of these when I worked at Xiotech ...

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=18526

From the article:

After a string of suicides, Apple has become alarmed and has pressured Foxconn to seek solutions to stop the deaths.

Pay Foxconn $2 more per iPad and make certain that the employees get half of it.  Show them that someone cares about something more than an iPad.

[glynor]

Other than it being fun to pick on Apple for no real reason, I don't understand why this is a story at all.  (I mean, I understand why it is a story over at DailyTech, which is a sensationalist rag, but I'm more talking about the mainstream media.)

Foxconn is a MASSIVE company, which makes parts for literally every consumer electronics and computer company in the world.  They employ over 800,000 people.  Even if you assume the rate will continue in a similar fashion for the rest of the year, 13 suicides in 6 months among 800k people is actually WAY below the average suicide rate for all of China, the US, Canada, and all sorts of other countries (most of them, really).

As of May 28th, there were 13 reported suicide attempts among all Foxconn employees, resulting in 11 deaths.  Even if you only count their employees at the massive Foxconn "city" in Shenzhen, there are over 300,000 employees there total where they make Sony PSPs, Android phones, iPads and parts for most every other consumer electronics device on the market.  This means that if you extrapolate this out over the course of a year, it would result in around 26 deaths total for the year.  This seems high until you realize that the average suicide rate in the US (as of 2005) is 17.7 per 100k, so by our standards, there should be 53 successful suicides among those 300k employees assuming an average rate.  Rates among high-stress jobs in the US are even higher (NYC police suicides are around 29 per 100k according to a recent study).  Reliable data isn't available for China, but the last "official" numbers available (from 1999) is still a rate of 13 suicides per 100k people.

I think it is good that Foxconn is taking so many steps to prevent the suicides among their low-paid employees.  Maybe we could instead focus our efforts on trying to stop the extremely high suicide rates in our military (which was over 20 per 100k last year and that doesn't even account for the nearly 5x more that attempt but don't succeed).

It is sad that sometimes people, especially those in high-stress jobs and environments, lose hope and take their own lives.  But blaming this on Apple is political and nothing more.

[glynor]

Upon further reflection, I guess I was wrong (or at least a bit harsh).  It is just really sad that those people, any people, have such difficult and unnatural working and living conditions.  This coverage actually seems to have worked out for the greater good.  These news stories, and the PR issues they entail, have pressured the electronics makers here, and it seems to be having some effect: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37392216

That's good.  We should pressure these companies to improve their worker's lives and build a sustainable middle class.  The market sure doesn't seem to be capable of doing it on it's own.

It's really just DailyTech that ticks me off.  They absolutely are a bunch of sensationalist d-bags.

[DarkPenguin]

Apple is the Devil.

[glynor]

Like Elaine?

[hit_ny]

Foxconn is a MASSIVE company, which makes parts for literally every consumer electronics and computer company in the world.

Exactly, Apple gets its name out there but HP & Dell just send letters of concern.

Nothing wrong with HP or Dell, but if its Apple then its wrong 

[DarkPenguin]

Who said their was nothing wrong with HP or Dell?

[hit_ny]

Nobody, but that's the impression one is left with when at the outset Apple has its name splashed out there.

[prod]

Apple nurture a more personal connection between the company (products) and the customer, quite successfully - they have quite the loyal following unlike relatively faceless corporations such as HP, Dell, whose customers will happily move on to another product and not look back. I think that makes them rather more vulnerable to attack.

In this instance it may appear unfair to single out one company, but this makes Apple no less culpable. Any company involved in any form of exploitation should get a solid thumbs-down, and efforts to expose exploitation should be encouraged (though the results should also be cynically and critically investigated) - rather than putting up smokescreens, e.g. "yes but other companies do it as well". It may be an extreme example, but there's a certain amount of denial going on that reminds me a little of stories of wartime Germany, that is, the general feeling or even certainty that something very bad is happening but we're not certain we want to address it properly, because to do so may be wholly against our own self-interests. Probably a daft analogy, but anyone who enjoys eating meat but has gone (or thought of going) "veggie" will know these conflicting feelings well .

[hit_ny]

Agree that the 'everybody does it' excuse is a weak one. But don't think thats what Glynor nor myself were trying to suggest.

I'm referring to the initial articles that had Apple involved here. There was a similar report a few months back about an employee involved with iPhones commiting suicide, that one sort of quietened down after a bit before this one surfaced again, with Apple leading the pack.

The message one is left with is Apple consistantly chooses to do business with companies that exploit their workers.

If the intention is to highlight poor working conditions, putting out a big name like Apple may do the trick, but it seems unfair. Foxconn is the one building these gadgets, conditions must be similar with other product lines for different vendors as well.

Will note here that subsequent articles I read did mention others so at least the coverage became more balanced later.

[KingSparta]

>> The message one is left with is Apple consistently chooses
>>  to do business with companies that exploit their workers.
Many Companies Do To Some Extent

If Not In Production Levels, It Is In Low Wages.

In The Current Market, Companies Can Use Up A Employee, And Trade Him In For A New One When Set Levels Are Not Met.

Since Our Economy Is Going Thru "The Obama, Change" And Unemployment Is High Companies Have More Workers That Need A Job So There Selection Is Higher.

Currently I Must Work From 07:00 am To 7:30 pm Or Later, 6 Days A Week Or I Could Lose My Job (I Am A Manager) Our Workers Must Work Similar Hours If Not More.

It Is All About Getting More For Less, Never Mind Leaving The Worker In Rubble On The Curb.

[MrC]

Here's an interesting article:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_38/b4195058423479.htm