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[matt00]

Currious to know why accuraterip is not supported?
Thanks,

[JimH]

Didn't we just have this discussion?

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=58494.0

[Vincent Kars]

You mean you do think offset correction is nonsense and as a consequence no use to use http://www.accuraterip.com/?

[JimH]

I wouldn't call it nonsense, but I don't see a problem.  MC's Secure Rip detects and corrects errors.

Maybe you could post a couple of tracks ripped with MC and another ripper that is, in your opinion, superior just to see if anyone can tell which is which.

[Vincent Kars]

Personally I do think a couple of zero’s make zero difference.
I don’t think there is much difference between ripping software as most are able today to rip in secure mode. Test like these http://www.designwsound.com/dwsblog/?page_id=535 corroborates this point

However, one (of the many) audiophile worries  is the quality of the ripping.
Submitting the result of your rip to the AccurateRip database can tell you if your result matches those of others (assuming that others all ready have ripped the same CD).
This I do think a useful  additional safeguard that might even console the audiophile mind.

[matt00]

Personally I do think a couple of zero’s make zero difference.
I don’t think there is much difference between ripping software as most are able today to rip in secure mode. Test like these http://www.designwsound.com/dwsblog/?page_id=535 corroborates this point

However, one (of the many) audiophile worries  is the quality of the ripping.
Submitting the result of your rip to the AccurateRip database can tell you if your result matches those of others (assuming that others all ready have ripped the same CD).
This I do think a useful  additional safeguard that might even console the audiophile mind.

I total agree...and by making a few simple additions to MC15 you can make it the industry standard for listening, copying, and converting music files for the audiophile community!

[sunfire7]

However, one (of the many) audiophile worries  is the quality of the ripping.
Submitting the result of your rip to the AccurateRip database can tell you if your result matches those of others (assuming that others all ready have ripped the same CD).
This I do think a useful  additional safeguard that might even console the audiophile mind.

+1

[Frobozz]

This I do think a useful  additional safeguard that might even console the audiophile mind.

That would be the reason for adding AccurateRip to MC.  To console the audiophile mind.

I do admit that I like ripping with EAC or dBpoweramp and seeing the AccurateRip report saying the rip is good.  Especially if I'm ripping a used CD that has obviously bad scratches.  In practice though it is very rare to have such a CD rip without errors in EAC or dBpoweramp yet fail AccurateRip.  And in those cases the CD is so obviously badly scratched that it won't go by unnoticed and you can check it using different rippers just for sanity.

An interesting bit is that the dBpoweramp ripper was designed around AccurateRip.  It uses the AccurateRip data to help speed up the ripping.  If it reads the first pass and it agrees with AccurateRip then there is no need to re-read anything and the rip can proceed faster.  EAC doesn't take advantage of that info.  The only goodness EAC gets from AccurateRip is the warm feeling of the verification against AccurateRip after the rip is done.  No harm, but not much real benefit.

I've been playing around with the MC15 ripper out of curiosity.  It has been doing well with scratched CDs.  I've used CueTools to verify the MC15 rips against AccurateRip and the rips verify.  MC15 handles pregap differently so you need to make a manual correction in CueTools to correct for the size of the pregap if you want to verify against AccurateRip.  But that's just a slight difference in offset and location of track changes.  Not a big deal unless you can hear the difference of 32 frames of silence added to the beginning or end of a track or the difference in 32 frames of offset in the case of gapless track changes.

I still need to experiment with badly scratched CDs from the local library (the local library is a great source for scratched test CDs).  Compare how well MC15 does against EAC and dBpoweramp.  In my experience the difference of whether EAC or dBpoweramp does better on a particular scratched CD depends more on the CD drive being used than the software as long as the software does re-reads and other aggressive error correction during the rip.  Some scratched CDs will rip in EAC but not dBpoweramp.  While others will rip with AccurateRip verification in dBpoweramp but not EAC.  Can't say which ripper is better because neither is always better.

So in the real world the only purpose of AccurateRip in MC would be to improve audiophile karma.  Not that such karma wouldn't give me a good feeling after a rip.

[Frobozz]

I total agree...and by making a few simple additions to MC15 you can make it the industry standard for listening, copying, and converting music files for the audiophile community!

Depending on how the MC ripper is coded, what assumptions were made, and other factors, it could be more than just a simple addition to add support AccurateRip.  It could require a big rewrite of the ripper.

AccurateRip can be used for free for non-commercial programs.  Commercial use though requires licensing and I have no idea what the terms for that would be.  Certainly a factor for J River if they were to add AccurateRip.

[Listener]

Using the AccurateRip database could make secure ripping faster for those CDs in the AccurateRip database since you could get a secure rip from a single read at top speed.  If I'm ripping a lot of CDs, that improvement in speed would look very interesting. That feature would be an atttractive addition to MC.

However, I have not found that using AccurateRip adds to my confidence in secure rips.  The technique of reading CDs twice and comparing the results works very, very well in practice.

The AccurateRip mechanism uses the offset value of a CD drive in calculating the AccurateRip checksum for a track. The presence or absence of an extra milliseconds of zero samples at the beginning of a music file is no big deal.

> I total agree...and by making a few simple additions to MC15 you can make it the industry standard for listening,
> copying, and converting music files for the audiophile community

MC as a CD ripper is already a rational choice for a thinking audiophile.  It is much easier to set up than EAC and dBpoweramp and ripping is well integrated with tag editing and playback.

> This I do think a useful  additional safeguard that might even console the audiophile mind.

Chasing the favor of the ignorant, irrational audiophiles who make the most noise about sound quality is a fool's game.  Your software might be the flavor of the month now but then some charlatan will come along with an unbelievable claim of the next breakthrough and your solid work is so very last month.
 
Bill

[Vincent Kars]

Chasing the favor of the ignorant, irrational audiophiles who make the most noise about sound quality is a fool's game.

Hi Bill
This is one of those rare occasions I have to disagree
There is a massive post on AA about this subject and of course some do hear a striking difference between rips with and without the right offset.
This is what I call a audiophile difference: having such a discerning hearing that you are able to hear things which are not there.
So I couldn’t resist to make a small joke about the audiophile mind.

However, what AccurateRip is doing is not uncommon.
We use hardware and software and most of the time it works flawless but not all of the time.
Often sites offering software for download also publish the MD5 enabling you verify the integrity of the download. An additional safeguard.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it is a money question.
The database owner is Illustrate, the makers of dbPoweramp.
J River probably has to pay for incorporating AccurateRip.

I do think dbPoweramp has a clever business model. You get access to AMG for a year. After a year you have to renew your licence ($5).
This keeps the product price down and offer the user a choice and probably generates some additional revenues.
What about MC15 with
-additional AMG licence
-additional AccurateRip licence

[Listener]

Vincent,

> This is one of those rare occasions I have to disagree

No problem.  I certainly respect your opinion.  I think you misunderstood what I wrote.

> There is a massive post on AA about this subject and of course some do hear a striking difference
> between rips with and without the right offset.

That thread was a perfect demonstration of my point.  One guy screwed up, misinterpreted what happened, refused to do a proper experiment, admitted his ignorance of how secure ripping and the AccurateRip  process worked. To the end of that thread, he  proclaimed his discovery. Dozens of lemmings got all excited for a week or two.  Now the breakthrough has been forgotten.

> However, what AccurateRip is doing is not uncommon.
> We use hardware and software and most of the time it works flawless but not all of the time.
> Often sites offering software for download also publish the MD5 enabling you verify the integrity of the download.
> An additional safeguard.

My remarks were based on my experience.  I began using the AccurateRip database with dBpoweramp when it became available.  Secure ripping has been reliable with or without AccurateRip confirmation.  While an AccurateRip match may improve your level of confidence, a secure rip that doesn't match results in the AccurateRip database is an unnecessary false negative.

> The database owner is Illustrate, the makers of dbPoweramp.
> J River probably has to pay for incorporating AccurateRip.

Probably so.

> I do think dbPoweramp has a clever business model. You get access to AMG for a year.
> After a year you have to renew your licence ($5).
> This keeps the product price down and offer the user a choice and probably generates some additional revenues.

AMG = All Music Guide, a different company.  I don't know how much of the $ 5 / year goes to AMG.

The AccurateRip database is separate from the AMG tag database.  You can go on using dBpoweramp without access to AMG without paying $ 5 / year..

> What about MC15 with
> -additional AMG licence
> -additional AccurateRip licence

AMG does provide composer tag information for classical music.  However, it isn't formatted in a useful way for me and the other tags are not formatted the way I wanted them to be either.

I already said that I think that the increase in ripping speed would be a useful benefit for MC.  I don't think that paying $ 5 /year for it makes sense to me as a consumer.  Bundling Accuraterip into MC for a small one time charge makes more sense to me.

Bill