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[dcwebman]

Running version 114 which is why I didn't post in the 15 forum. I have all my songs on a NAS and need to analyze about 4000. I started it up expecting to come back later and see they were done but when I did was surprised that only a few had been done. This message was displayed:
"Media Center encountered errors while tagging and moving files. Check that the files exists, are not read-only, and are not in use by other programs."

And underneath that:
"The last several files have caused errors. Processing has been halted."

I have tried a few times to do the remaining ones. The last time there were 3695 to do and after only 15 songs, I got those messages. That definitely is not time for the NAS to spin down or anything so it can't be that. I have tried analyzing 2 at a time and then 4 at a time with the same results.

Any suggestions on how I can get all the songs analyzed?

[dcwebman]

Version 115 is doing a little better. I may get up to 100 files without it stopping. With MC constantly writing to the NAS, it can't be that the NAS detects no activity and goes to sleep. No solution?

[JimH]

A flakey drive?  Try local files.

[dcwebman]

It's a RAID drive so if I have a flakey drive, I assume I would need to swap drives. I was expecting the response would be to use local files but are you really expecting one to copy 4000 files to the local drive, run analyze, and then copy back, all the time being in the same folder structure?

[JimH]

It's a RAID drive so if I have a flakey drive, I assume I would need to swap drives. I was expecting the response would be to use local files but are you really expecting one to copy 4000 files to the local drive, run analyze, and then copy back, all the time being in the same folder structure?

Just copy enough to trigger the problem you reported.  That will tell you whether it's the drive or not.

[dcwebman]

Well this wasn't fun. I determined the best way to copy the files to the local drive was to use the Find & Replace to change the drive letter of the NAS to C: for some of the files. This started moving the files and then I realized why it was so slow. The gigabit network card went bad in the desktop so I had to resort to wireless which meant 54Mbps.

I selected 256 files to copy and it finished so I started analyzing the ones that were now on C:. After 222 songs I got the same error messages.

But then after trying analyze on the remaining 34 files, it didn't work. This is because for some unknown reason those files were not moved to C even though the library was updated. I went into panic mode because the files weren't on C and I thought they had been deleted but luckily they were still on the NAS. Problem there.

I did a Find & Replace on those again a couple times to get them to C and then the Analyze finished. One last Find & Replace to move all back to the NAS.

So there is definitely one problem here and that is the copying of files was incomplete even though the library was updated.

I'm really hoping there is nothing wrong with my NAS drive and I kind of doubt it, but am thinking there's more of a problem with MC updating the NAS when connecting via the slow wireless speed. I'll have to replace the LAN card before I bother analyzing the rest of the thousands of files.

[JimH]

To summarize, it appears to be a problem with the network card, and not an MC problem.

[JimH]

There was a similar problem a couple years ago that was solved with a setting change.  Something about jumbo frames, I think.  Try the "Weird Problems" thread in my signature.

[gvanbrunt]

There are quite a few optimizations that some network cards have that can cause havoc. Jumbo Frames is probably the best known. From personal experience the issues can be quite nasty to track down and caused our email to be out for 36 hours. A few years ago we moved a domain controller to a new piece of hardware. Everything was working fine. Then all of a sudden the mail server (Exchange) stopped working. Every thing else on the network worked fine. Long story short, this escalated all the way to the top of the support chain at Microsoft and we were all stumped. Everything worked between the domain controller and Exchange except for certain LDAP calls that Exchange used to find domain controllers. Someone suggested playing with network card settings. I disabled all the optimizations and voila, it started working. The villagers (other managers) stopped circling with their torches and pitchforks outside the IT office. My neck still has the noose marks on it...

Anyway, check these on both the client and the NAS (if you can). I would also wonder why the gigabit card isn't working either... that could be related to your problem.

[JimH]

Nice story!

[dcwebman]

To summarize, it appears to be a problem with the network card, and not an MC problem.

I wouldn't say this is entirely true. MC should not have updated the library with the new path if it was not successful in moving the files.

There was a similar problem a couple years ago that was solved with a setting change.  Something about jumbo frames, I think.  Try the "Weird Problems" thread in my signature.

I looked in all my properties for my network card, and I can't find the word "jumbo" anywhere. I didn't have any luck searching online either. If jumbo frames are turned on, then it came that way by default. The wireless driver is a Atheros Communications 802.11 a/b/g/n Dualband Wireless Network Module. The NAS has never been changed and never had a problem with previous versions of MC so I doubt it's any network setting on that.

Anyway, check these on both the client and the NAS (if you can). I would also wonder why the gigabit card isn't working either... that could be related to your problem.

We had a lightning strike a couple months ago that seemed to come through the network lines and fried our Uverse box, a network switch, TV, Slingbox, and apparently the network card in this one computer, hence requiring me to use the wireless card in it.

I'm not saying the wireless card in this desktop isn't using jumbo frames and that's the problem, but I'm doubtful. When I get home I'll hook up to the NAS with my laptop wirelessly and see if it dies there too during the analyze.

[JimH]

We had a lightning strike a couple months ago ...

Aha!

[dcwebman]

Aha!

And that means.....

[JimH]

Your hardware is suspect.  Sorry.  I'm sure it was a blow, but if you had a lightning strike that fried some of your equipment, there are probably more problems lurking.

Please copy 1000 files or so to your hard disk and try analyzing again.  Just to eliminate the network and NAS from the equation.

[dcwebman]

Your hardware is suspect.  Sorry.  I'm sure it was a blow, but if you had a lightning strike that fried some of your equipment, there are probably more problems lurking.

Please copy 1000 files or so to your hard disk and try analyzing again.  Just to eliminate the network and NAS from the equation.

We already went through this (read above). MC is incapable of doing a move of all files successfully to the local drive. Unless there is a better way than Find & Replace to correctly "copy" the entire directory structure to the local drive and then back again without changing anything in the path or filenames. Note: I only need to copy the files that have not been analyzed which is why I can't really do it in Windows Explorer.

[JimH]

We already went through this (read above). MC is incapable of doing a move of all files successfully to the local drive. Unless there is a better way than Find & Replace to correctly "copy" the entire directory structure to the local drive and then back again without changing anything in the path or filenames. Note: I only need to copy the files that have not been analyzed which is why I can't really do it in Windows Explorer.

Copy using explorer.  It doesn't matter if some have been analyzed.

[dcwebman]

Since I have over 27,000 files and I would have to determine which ones to copy with explorer, I decided to try another tactic so there was only one variable (MC) instead of multiple variables (network, card, and NAS). I imported all new songs into MC 14.0.156 and then tried the Analyze. It did over 1000 files with no problems at all before I stopped it.

With MC 15.0.115 I did an update Library from tags with no problems.

I think we can determine since 14 worked fine, there definitely is a change between that version and 15 that causes the Analyze problem.

[JimH]

Since I have over 27,000 files and I would have to determine which ones to copy with explorer, I decided to try another tactic so there was only one variable (MC) instead of multiple variables (network, card, and NAS). I imported all new songs into MC 14.0.156 and then tried the Analyze. It did over 1000 files with no problems at all before I stopped it.

With MC 15.0.115 I did an update Library from tags with no problems.

I think we can determine since 14 worked fine, there definitely is a change between that version and 15 that causes the Analyze problem.

MC15 is faster than MC14.  There may also be configuration differences. 

[gvanbrunt]

If you read my story above you'll notice that almost everything did work correctly except for one particular LDAP call. Most LDAP calls worked correctly. This dumbfounded some very intelligent and experienced people and we decided to try the network card thing even though not one of us thought it would work. We did it just to cover all the bases. So never say never. It could be a timing issue that has crept up for various reasons and now your network driver no longer works. That could be at the "client" or the "server" end.

Jim is trying to figure out a way to take the network out of the equation to see if the files analyse from the local drive. One method of troubleshooting is to reduce to basics and gradually increase the complexity until it again fails.

Also just because MC thinks the files were copied, doesn't mean it's at fault. If the OS "told it" they were copied (which I'm guessing it did) than it is working correctly. MC like all programs get the OS to "do it's dirty work" through API's. So that would likely include copying files to analyse them etc. The problem may be at a lower point then the program itself and in my experience weird things like this usually are.

[dcwebman]

I guess I'm in a no-win situation here. My local drive is not big enough to copy all these files to then do an analyze. MC can't copy the files and I'm sorry, but don't set the library field that the files copied if they really didn't. There certainly is a way to verify if the files did get moved or not, an "if file exists" API. I was thinking about doing what others have done and have a working folder for files that haven't been processed yet allowing MC to move them to the correct locations after, but now I have to think twice about that if the move doesn't really work 100% of the time.

I took the network out of the equation because it works with 14 but not 15 showing there is nothing wrong with my network setup. If I had been able to do the analyze successfully from the local drive, then the response would have been it's something in your network, not MC.

MC 15 is faster then 14 - fantastic. But obviously something changed in the Analyze code section that is affecting this functionality.

[gvanbrunt]

First, if the OS reports a file has been copied but does not in fact copy, there is something really wrong with the driver or hardware. It isn't up to MC to waste time confirming what the OS has already told it. If it were to do this "double-check" for every operation it would be much slower than it is. Furthermore, even if it did do the check a 2nd time, it certainly won't help your situation when there are actually deeper issues than MC.

Using 14 does not take the network out of the equation, but it does confirm the fact that it is not the files themselves that are the issue.

I don't believe MC has done much with the Analyze code at least from what I remember reading from the change logs. However this does not mean that other code on which Analyze uses has not change. The fact is some timing has changed, however that is not the issue and does not indicate something wrong it.

Lets look at this in another way. If thousands of MC users have it working without issue, but only one user who has sustained lightning damage reports the issue, where do you think the problem is? Also consider the fact it looks like the OS isn't even copying files correctly.

With that said here is what I would suggest:

1. Make sure you are running a computer that is not infected by a virus. I've seen all kinds of weird issues when newer viruses do Kernel patching etc to hide from virus scanners. If you don't have a scanner on that computer, there is a good chance you could have become infected. There is a tool called HijackThis you can get on the internet. If you run it and PM me a log I can take a look at it.
2. If you do have a scanner, try disabling it temporarily and do a analysis. It may contributing to timing issues with some driver or other.
3. Make sure no other software is running besides MC. Close all other applications and everything in the taskbar.
4. Make sure you have the latest drivers for your computer. That includes chipset, drive controller, video card, audio, network, etc.

Thanks about all I can think of for now. Let me know how it goes.

[dcwebman]

OK, I think I have it figured out. I added a gigabit network card, installed 118, tried the analyze and immediately got the error messages. Seeing reports of some crashes with that build I was going to try a previous build but debugged a bit more by taking smaller chunks of songs. Even with about 10 songs, it still gave the errors. I gave up for the day to wait for the next build but the next day decided to try again.

This time the songs I selected gave the errors but when I went to rename some of them individually, some of them said they couldn't be found. Running the broken link smartlist it turns out there's around 150 that aren't found. I'll need to fix those.

I then did a search with the text wizard to show only those files that weren't missing and ran Analyze again. I'm up to 434 so far with no problems except every so often it seems like MC is hung but after a couple minutes sitting like that, it will start again. I'm doing this externally using LogMeIn and it's disconnecting me every couple minutes, probably during those times MC takes over all system resources and seems like it's hung.

So this explains why MC 14 had no problem. I imported songs so it only got songs that actually existed. I guess there are 2 problems that comes out of this experiment:
1. MC doesn't always move files correctly but still updates the library. This may be related to the not exists files because it was the same artist that had some of the failed copies. For some reason there were duplicate files under his albums, some existed and some not. Only half the ones showed in the library that were moved but really weren't. I can't recall if they were the non-existent ones or not because I didn't realize there was that situation at the time. But regardless, none of the files under that particular album were moved to the local drive when I did the operation.
2. MC needs to have a better message during Analyze instead of what is given if files do not exist (sorry I can't copy them from the top of this thread since they were chopped off).

EDIT: OK, now I see my first message with the error messages after I saved the post. It does say there are some files that might not exist but out of the thousands of files, I wouldn't know what those are. But this last build when I was seeing the messages, I only saw the second message "The last several files have caused errors. Processing has been halted."

[gappie]

i can not say anything about the analyzing, but there are surely problems with copying files using mc, using the copy etc utility or the my computer tree. also when using local drives only. have reported 2 or 3 times about it too.

what are you using.. im on xp seeing this.

 
gab

[Matt]

1. MC doesn't always move files correctly but still updates the library.

Please post details about how to reproduce, like how the files were moved inside Media Center (library tool, in-place edit, drag-n-drop in My Computer, etc.)

2. MC needs to have a better message during Analyze instead of what is given if files do not exist (sorry I can't copy them from the top of this thread since they were chopped off).

I see the word "Error" for missing files.  That seems reasonable.

[gappie]

well.. speaking before my turn.. when you use  the my computer tree its easy to reproduce. make a folder called test on one disc, with some files in it, audio or images, make a folder with the same name on an other disc with nothing in it. turn autoimport on for the second disc and move the test folder from the first disc to the second via my computer in mc. mc will create a 'copy of test' folder without a reason, looses its connection to the files moving leaving it in the database on the original location and import the second in the copy of folder new.

just to get a taste for it

 
gab

edit: maybe i should add, when autoimport is off, you dont find the files again unless you go into windows explorer searching for them. that was how i found it some weeks ago, loosing 25 albums in mc that i just copied that way. the procedure above i just did to reproduce..

[dcwebman]

Please post details about how to reproduce, like how the files were moved inside Media Center (library tool, in-place edit, drag-n-drop in My Computer, etc.)
I see the word "Error" for missing files.  That seems reasonable.

I used Find & Replace with Rename to change the mapped drive letter of the NAS to C: to move the files. I have autoimport turned off. This last go'round happened on Win7 64 bit.

If you get the Error message with the name of the missing files that's great. However, the last time I just got the message "The last several files have caused errors. Processing has been halted" displayed multiple times for the number of files I was trying to analyze at the same time. That doesn't help me figure out what files were a problem.

[Matt]

well.. speaking before my turn.. when you use  the my computer tree its easy to reproduce. make a folder called test on one disc, with some files in it, audio or images, make a folder with the same name on an other disc with nothing in it. turn autoimport on for the second disc and move the test folder from the first disc to the second via my computer in mc. mc will create a 'copy of test' folder without a reason, looses its connection to the files moving leaving it in the database on the original location and import the second in the copy of folder new.

This particular report will be fixed in build 121 and later.

Step-by-step instructions like that are very helpful.  Thank you.