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a great addition

4 (36.4%)

a pain in my elbow

6 (54.5%)

not bothering me

1 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 11

[gappie]

3000 something posts. my first poll 
ever since the automatic ordering of keywords has been introduced i get frustrated by the fact that i can not tag my files the way i want too. in this discussion:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=45174.0
matt says

Sorting of list-type fields was added by popular demand a while ago.

Feel free to voice your opinion.  We'll remove it if it's not popular.

the recent topic about thv stired my passion about it again: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59657.msg403386#msg403386

so.. what do you think. discus.. vote..

 
gab

[gappie]

to add.. just what i wrote in one of the threads mentioned above:
i would like to be a bit clearer on this one, and how mc treats this now wrongly. when you have added information via a plugin to, for instance, the actors.. kill bill will start its list with uma thurman. just clicking on the actors in the tag window will change this order and places uma thurman somewhere near the end, making the list in the info panel much less usefull.

 
gab

[rick.ca]

I had to vote "not bothering me" because "should be optional" was, ironically. not an option.

I'm sure there are many cases—like movie credits—where the order is significant and the list items should not be sorted. But if the order is not significant, leaving them unsorted is equally annoying. List fields should have a attribute that determines the sort behaviour.

This is probably too much to expect, but even for a list field that maintains the original order, it's often convenient—especially if the list is long—if they're presented alphabetically for editing purposes.

[Vincent Kars]

should be optional

My vote:
Sort: ASC/DESC/None

[gappie]

ofcourse.. optional as part of the settings of a specific field would be the best option. but since it has been a yes/no all the way.. it could be one of the solutions. 

I'm sure there are many cases—like movie credits—where the order is significant and the list items should not be sorted. But if the order is not significant, leaving them unsorted is equally annoying. List fields should have a attribute that determines the sort behaviour.

This is probably too much to expect, but even for a list field that maintains the original order, it's often convenient—especially if the list is long—if they're presented alphabetically for editing purposes.

the question is, how oft does that happen. we are talking about media data, not the clients database of a bank. so maybe in genres (when someone made that field) or styles. but even in keywords, there are so much more ways one would like to have his data.
in media, long lists are often credits or people on a picture. the order is part of the data, like with actors, and there is NO way to add that important value to mc, except from the outside. when one wants to have the data sorted alphabetically it is always possible via panes. but to keep them in the way they were ment is a no no.

 
gab

[rick.ca]

the question is, how oft does that happen.

Probably not very often. I can't think of any commonly-occurring circumstance where one would need to edit existing list data in the tagging window. But if it is necessary to change one item in a list that way, it would certainly be much easier to find (in a long list) if the list were sorted. (Sorted only in the edit box—the original order would be maintained.) I suppose it's not practical. Without the ability to toggle the sort order, it would be difficult to insert an item into the original order.

[gappie]

poll bump..
to show what the alphabetic ordering does.
the first image is the actor list of kill bill. the second shows how it looks when you only just click on actors in the tag window. there is no way to restore the order inside mc.



 
gab

[Matt]

This is a tricky one because our existing UI for editing a list-type field isn't setup to handle order nicely.

We're experimenting with a new UI that could handle ordering.  It's too soon to say when / if we'll hatch it.

[Matt]

We put together a new UI to edit list fields that supports order.

It looks like:
<click here to add>

• A
• B
• C

When you click to add, you get an auto-complete combobox.  You can drag-n-drop items to reorder.  You can right-click to get to a simple text editor.

But I'm not sure what to do when you have two files selected.  If one is "A; B" and the other is "B; A", and you add "C" (and optionally drag "C" to a position), what should the new order be of the two files?

[rick.ca]

But I'm not sure what to do when you have two files selected.  If one is "A; B" and the other is "B; A", and you add "C" (and optionally drag "C" to a position), what should the new order be of the two files?

Would it be possible to display "<varies>" for each position of the list where the items in that position are not the same? And then allow the same add behaviour—that is, insert the new item to a particular position in the list?

In most cases, only one record is going to be edited at a time. Or if multiple records are selected, the intent would likely be to make the list the same for all. So seeing "varies" is going to be a clue the selection is wrong, or that one record should be edited and the results copied to the rest. I don't see how you could program a more "intelligent" response—the user has to decide.

An alternative would be to simply not allow an edit in this case, but I'm sure some have a use-case for this sort of edit. I suppose the obvious one is you need to add one item to a bunch of records with varying lists. You accept it cannot be added in the "correct" position of each list in one edit, but you're willing to add it to the same position in every list.

What about changes for multiple files? Will it be possible to select an existing item in the list (including "<varies>" and change it?

BTW, is this going to apply to all list fields? If so, where there be a convenient option to sort the items alphabetically, if it's not an ordered list?

[leezer3]

An alternative would be to simply not allow an edit in this case, but I'm sure some have a use-case for this sort of edit. I suppose the obvious one is you need to add one item to a bunch of records with varying lists. You accept it cannot be added in the "correct" position of each list in one edit, but you're willing to add it to the same position in every list.

Definitely I'm afraid- I manually tag all my audiobooks, and it's often easier to add someone into multiple books at once.
I'll note that I'm not particularly bothered about sorting or not

-Leezer-

[gappie]

Thanks Matt for taking a look at it. at the moment im doing the tagging using an old mc12 version. mostly for albums adding or restoring musicians. most time it is per album though several songs my have some additional players. restoring the tags that mc 15 sorted alphabetically is fairly easy to do, though a bit clumpsy, just use the pane, select the files of the album and turn the tags off and on again in the right order. i think dragging and dropping in the tag/text window would improve on that. and i guess the way the panes work would then also not order automatically in the tag?

guess we have to play a bit with it first. im looking forward to that.

 
gab

[gappie]

But I'm not sure what to do when you have two files selected.  If one is "A; B" and the other is "B; A", and you add "C" (and optionally drag "C" to a position), what should the new order be of the two files?

ive been thinking a bit more about this one.
could it not show up when selecting those two files as:
<varies>;<varies>
in which case the C could be dropped on the second place.
now with:
A;B;D
A;B
it could also work that way? with a <varies> for the D and empty value...
but when adding the C at the end the result
A;B;D;C
A;B;C
should be
A;B;<varies>;C
right?

 
gab

[MrHaugen]

I like the idea of being able to drag and drop to change order. I also vote for the option to have sort options for this fields. Desc, Asc and no auto sort.

I'll vote for the "pain" option thing for now. Because I know it will be, once I start to use real movies and series meta data.

[gappie]

i want to thank the few who participated in this poll. 

and most of all thanks to matt for the new interface. i just uninstalled my old mc 12 for tagging list fields because mc 15 is keeping the tag order again as i intended, and even better, has a great interface for input and maintenance of list fields.

i close the poll because the question does not make sense anymore.

 
gab