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[seldenr]

I searched the Boards and found a similar problem that someone else encountered, but there was no answer (and an old post) so I thought I would ask for some help from the experts!

I ripped an old CD as a flac file.  It is Frank Zappa's "Bongo Fury".  Mostly live, so several of the songs (tracks) segue into each other without silence or a break.

However, when I play the album in MC there is a second or so of silence between songs/tracks, which does not exist on the CD.  More like the system hangs between tracks that segue into each other.  The music is continuing and then for about a second there is dead silence then the next song starts.  Whereas on the CD there is no break between the tunes.

I went into the Tools/Options and tried a few options.  The Direct Sound Settings buffering makes no difference (I tried with 0.5 buffering and with 6.0 buffering). 

On "track changes" I have selected "gapless" which I understand should play the CD as is.  I have no effects on and I think most everything else is set to default.

I typically play my "albums" (CDs) as they are, and that's what I would like to hear.  Can someone help me get rid of the "hang" or silence between the tracks? Thanks!!!

[Frobozz]

Try the following settings
Tools >> Options >> Audio >> Track Change

Switch Tracks Gapless
clear (untick) the option for "Do not play silence (leading and trailing)"
set (tick) the option for "Use gapless for sequential album tracks"

I'm guessing you have the "Do not play silence" option set.  That will mess up gapless playback for many tracks that fade out to near silence but are intended to flow smoothly (gapless) to the next track.

It should all work with those settings if the CD was ripped using a ripper that preserves the proper gap info and that doesn't do other nasty stuff (like normalizing or trimming silence or discarding any pregap audio).  If you ripped with Media Center, EAC, or dBpoweramp you should be fine.  Otherwise re-rip the CD using Media Center.

[seldenr]

Frobozz:

Thanks so much for the help!!!  But no, the "do not play silence..." box is not checked, since I like to listen to albums all the way through just as they are on CD (and ripped vinyl). 

However, I did not have the box checked for "use gapless for sequential album tracks".  I checked that box, restarted MC and tried it again.  It still hung between tracks (one time it was just under a second of silence, but another time it was almost 2 seconds of dead silence) where there should have been continuous music (they segue from one song to the next).

If it helps, the CD that has the problem was ripped using MC, with copy mode set to "secure" (which at least for me means it rips at 1.9x speed, taking a long time).  I save the files in the FLAC format, since I prefer a higher quality file.

Any more suggestions?  I certainly do appreciate it!

[Matt]

I'm a little puzzled, because it sounds like you're doing everything right.  I do have two thoughts:

1) Open one of the FLAC files in Media Editor (included with Media Center) and zoom to the front and end.  Is there silence?

2) Are you playing from a slow source, like a NAS?  If so, try increasing the pre-buffering time in Options > Audio.

Thanks.

[seldenr]

Hey Matt:

To your second question, no, I am running on my laptop from the hard disc.  Could it be too slow?  I also clicked the box to have the file run from memory, but it still hung.

I tried to open the file in Media Editor, but it gives me an error message "Error decoding file".  That is strange since I ripped it from CD using MC, as a flac file.

By the way, I really appreciate the help.  I purchased MC since I read in Stereophile (and also TAS) that MC is a better program than iTunes for audio reasons.  I have a rather nice home system and am planning to eventually use MC as a media server program to use in that system.

So thanks for the help!

Oh, and if you like I can email you the file.  It is about 10meg (a short tune).  Maybe you might find something wrong with it.

[Frobozz]

MC is better than iTunes for a lot more than just audio reasons. 

I wonder if the files for that album have gotten corrupted in some way.  One possible way is that they've somehow gotten ID3 tags (the tag format used for MP3 and a few other formats) written to them.  FLAC files use Vorbis Comments for tagging, not ID3 tags.  Unfortunately there are some tools that can write ID3 tags to a FLAC file.  The result is a non-conforming FLAC file that can cause playback problems.

One way to check the tags is to use a free program called Mp3Tag.  Despite the name it does more than just MP3 tagging.  It will handle FLAC and many other formats as well.  Open the file in Mp3Tag.  The third column is labeled "Tag" and tells you what type(s) of tags are in the file.  For FLAC files it should say "FLAC (FLAC)".  If it mentions any ID3 tags or other formats then the FLAC file is non-conforming and may be corrupted.  If you do have the wrong type of tags it is possible to get Mp3Tag to rewrite the tags to proper FLAC tags and to remove the errant ID3 tags.

MC15 also has some tools and ways of investigating the tag info in a file.  I just use Mp3Tag usually cause I'm more familiar with it.

Second question: Do you get playback glitches at other times, other than just at track changes?  For example blips or pauses in the audio in the middle of a song?

[Matt]

Make sure you're testing using build 15.0.132, available at the top of this board.

We haven't heard about the issue with Media Editor failing to open a FLAC file.  Hopefully the new build will solve that problem, allowing us to trouble-shoot the gapless issue.

Thanks.

[seldenr]

Guys:

First I must thank you for the effort you put in to help customers.  Fantastic and much appreciated!

I thought I had the most recent version, but it was a couple months old, so I upgraded to 15.0.132, but the gap still occurs in the recording I mentioned.

However, the good news is that I went through my music collection and found another album that has songs that seque into each other, and they play just fine!  That tells me that there is a good chance that MC is not the cause of the problem. 

I do also note that this other album was ripped in Window Media Player (a year or so ago), using the wma format.  So, to keep from wasting your time, I will try the Mp3Tag program you mention.  If that works then I will let you know.  If it does not I will try to re-rip the disc, and if that does not work I will rip it using wma format.  One of those is bound to work and then I will let you know how it turns out.

Thanks so much!!

By the way, about a year ago I purchased an iPod Touch, which I understand Apple has "engineered" so that it cannot be synced with anything by iTunes.  A very unfriendly, if not anti-competitive, behaviour.  If you have a suggestion for an email address at Apple, I would be glad to remind them of these facts.

First, I have some experience with antitrust issues, and would like to send them a "friendly" reminder of why they might want to reconsider their position.  Why? (1) There are a few people that might be interested in taking on just such a high profile target, and (2) they need to hear from people like me that otherwise like their products, but if they do not allow us the freedom to choose our own music server, then we are happy to take a look at the competition! 

Thanks for your help!

[glynor]

By the way, about a year ago I purchased an iPod Touch, which I understand Apple has "engineered" so that it cannot be synced with anything by iTunes.  A very unfriendly, if not anti-competitive, behaviour.  If you have a suggestion for an email address at Apple, I would be glad to remind them of these facts.

First, I have some experience with antitrust issues, and would like to send them a "friendly" reminder of why they might want to reconsider their position.  Why? (1) There are a few people that might be interested in taking on just such a high profile target, and (2) they need to hear from people like me that otherwise like their products, but if they do not allow us the freedom to choose our own music server, then we are happy to take a look at the competition!  

It does stink.

Unfortunately, it would be hard to prove that they exercise monopoly power in the portable media player market.  While they do certainly control nearly all of the "handheld MP3 player" market, that doesn't consider that pretty much every phone on the planet can serve as a MP3 player in some capacity (and smartphones even do it pretty well), and the variety of other personal media players and game systems that have similar functions (Archos, Sandisk, and the Sony PSP for example).  If you exclude phones, portable game systems, and other PMP systems... Well, that is a pretty strictly defined market, and the courts are typically not eager to define markets so narrowly.  If you include those other products, not only is Apple not a monopoly, but they aren't even the market leader (that would still be Nokia).  If Apple isn't a monopoly, they can be as anti-competitive as they want.

The best response is going to be to vote with your wallet, but Apple has responded to customer requests in the past.  Writing to Steve Jobs himself will at least ensure that someone at Apple reads it.  However, complaining to Apple about anti-trust though is just going to make them file your letter in the circular file.  They have lawyers who advise them on legal matters.  Random Internet People probably rank pretty low on the "legal advice" scale.

[JimH]

First, I have some experience with antitrust issues, and would like to send them a "friendly" reminder of why they might want to reconsider their position.  Why? (1) There are a few people that might be interested in taking on just such a high profile target, and (2) they need to hear from people like me that otherwise like their products, but if they do not allow us the freedom to choose our own music server, then we are happy to take a look at the competition! 

Great.  You could try starting a thread here:
http://discussions.apple.com/category.jspa?categoryID=149

If you post a link, maybe someone else will want to back you up.

[glynor]

Great.  You could try starting a thread here:
http://discussions.apple.com/category.jspa?categoryID=149

If you post a link, maybe someone else will want to back you up.

Unfortunately, Jim, Apple representatives don't monitor the Apple Discussion Forums very well unless one of the moderators notices a post and forwards it up the chain (rather than deletes it).  Those moderators aren't Apple employees by-and-large, they are mostly forum regulars that have been elevated to super-user status.  They ain't J River!

The most effective ways to send Apple feedback are:

1. If you have an Apple Hardware product (like an iPod) call AppleCare.  I have done this and explained that I'd like to be able to use my third party applications to directly sync my media on my iPhone.  This gets passed on.  Apple listens to people who actually call AppleCare.  Remember how they mentioned the AppleCare statistics at the AntennaGate presser?  It may help to ask for a supervisor before you explain yourself.

2. Larry posted a great set of links to the different Feedback forms Apple provides for their products.  If you'd rather write than call, this would be the best means by far.

iPod Classic:  http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipod.html

iPod Touch:  http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipodtouch.html

iPhone:  http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

The main page for selecting another product (like iPod Nano or Shuffle) is:  http://www.apple.com/feedback/

3. Another option that has actually been shown to work over and over again: Write a letter to Steve Jobs.  It can be an email, but actual physical letters really can work as well.  This is true especially if you send the letter via a package carrying service (FedEx or UPS) rather than USPS.  Even I get tons of piddly promotional junk and vendor "hello letters" in my regular mailbox at work, but if I get a FedEx, it comes to me directly from our receiving department and I have to sign for it.  I open those myself.

Another REALLY effective thing to do is to CC second-tier executives in your message (both physical ones and emailed correspondence).  While Steve Jobs gets a TON of email, and all of his email goes through the Executive Customer Service department, if you also send a copy of your letter to Bertrand Serlet (Senior VP of Software Engineering) or Scott Forstall (senior VP of iOS Software), you might actually get their eyes on the letter.  This means the issue could end up being discussed at their next meeting, which is exactly what you want.

Steve Jobs' email address: sjobs@apple.com
Other @apple.com email addresses seem to follow the same pattern, but executives may have "secret" internal addresses.

Corporate mailing address:
1 Infinite Loop
Cupertino, CA 95014

4. Lastly, apparently contacting the Executive Customer Support team directly can be very effective.  The Consumerist has posted this strategy:

1) Call Apple Corporate: 408-996-1010
2) Ask the operator for Gene (like denim) Teluse, VP of Customer Care. She is Apple's highest ranking customer service agent, and she reports directly to Steve Jobs.
3) Leave a nice message, include any Apple Case/Repair numbers you might have, or your machine's serial number, and a callback number.
4) Wait ~24 business hours for one of Ms. Teluse's minions to call.
5) Calmly explain your story, and what you want Apple to do.

It is very important to remember if you do this, that you aren't calling to berate Apple and tell them how you think they are doing something wrong or with a poor strategy.  They won't listen to any of that.  What you want to do is call them and explain this: "I'm a customer.  I have an iProduct X.  I like it, but it isn't currently meeting my needs because I am unable to sync my media to it using J River Media Center instead of iTunes.  I need the third-party application instead of iTunes because it provides X" (and pick some feature that iTunes doesn't, like maybe FLAC support, or audiophile quality playback, or whatever).  The point is, that you want to make it about YOU AS A CUSTOMER, not about THEM AS A COMPANY.  Make it a customer service issue, and they will respond to it as such.  Make it about their corporate philosophy, and they'll ignore you as a fanboy or crackpot.

[seldenr]

Fantastic advice and I will do just that.  You are correct.  Calling to berate them and tell them they are bad will get you nowhere.  Asking politely, with good reasons and arguments, will sometimes get a better response.  Here in Texas we say "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar".  Works with me personally as well.  If you ask nicely, I will try very hard to understand that 2+2=5.  If you are rude and tell me I am a bad guy then I will never agree that 2+2=4.

Anyway, back to the original problem.  Guess what?  I removed the old files (the whole CD) from MC and from my disc, and reloaded it.  As you can imagine, it now works fine.  I have no idea why, but your original assessment must have been correct.  Some how or another the original files must have become corrupt.  I am quite sure it is no reflection on their owner.

So except for being able to sync to my Touch,  I am a grateful, and happy, camper.

And when get a minute I will look into the provided links and give Apple a call.  If no success, then my next device will be a Droid.

[glynor]

Interestingly... One of the Engadget guys got to ask Steve Jobs a couple questions at the "Back to the Mac" event the other day (where they launched the new Macbook Air and announced the OSX App Store).  One of the questions they asked was very interesting!

They asked if Apple was going to allow iOS devices to "sideload" apps in the future, following the new OSX App Store model rather than the existing iOS App Store model.  Steve's response?  "We are not announcing that at this time."

Just to explain, Apple announced a new App Store for regular OSX applications.  This will be a curated, Apple-managed store just like the App Store for iOS.  The difference is, of course, that as an OSX developer you can still distribute your applications via traditional means, AND use the App Store if you want.  This is important because Apple curates the App Store and rejects apps that do things they don't like (porn, duplicating functionality, etc).  In iOS, the App Store is your only choice (unless you jailbreak).  In OSX, that will NOT be the case.  Of course, if the OSX App Store is a success, it will be in a developer's best interest to get into the App Store (because the potential for sales will be much higher, and updates and payment processing is simplified dramatically).  But Apple is not going to force anyone to be in the App Store.

That's the way, I'd argue, it should be for iOS as well.  I understand their reasoning and why it isn't, but I disagree.  It would take away a HUGE advantage of competing platforms if they removed that restriction.  Since they are doing this with the new OSX App Store, it stands to reason that they are at least considering that action for iOS.

Steve's response was, of course, a non-denial, denial.  But still, it wasn't "NO" and Steve is certainly not shy about shooting down ideas and questions that he feels have no merit.  So... There is a little hope.

If that happens, well then, there's nothing to stop someone from building an iPod "competitor" app for iOS that you could use instead of the iPod app, and sync to via whatever means the developer offers!  Hey, I can dream, can't I?