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[jakebake]

Hey guys I just installed the jriver trial a few days ago. I want to be able to control the library from my iphone and I found plugplayer. Now It will find my computer and if jriver is already playing something I can choose now playing and play or pause that song. If I go to browse library I can see my entire library but as soon as I pick a song it freezes and jriver crashes. I have an iphone 4.
What is going on?

[JimH]

Welcome to the forum.  Which version of MC are you using?  Complete version number please.

Are you running the servers in the options for Media Network?  Which ones?

What are you trying to play?  MP3?  Is conversion set?

Where are you trying to play?  To the iPod?

Our WebRemote and WebPlay will run on the iPhone.

[jakebake]

Welcome to the forum.  Which version of MC are you using?  Complete version number please.

Are you running the servers in the options for Media Network?  Which ones?

What are you trying to play?  MP3?  Is conversion set?

Where are you trying to play?  To the iPod?

Our WebRemote and WebPlay will run on the iPhone.

I am at work so I can't check some of the questions, but I am using the newest version MC 15.
Files I am trying to play are Apples lossless and Flac.
I'm not trying to play to my iphone.. that actually works though. I am trying to just use my iphone to control jriver.
How do I get to the webremote/webplay?

[chirpp]

Did you ever figure this out? 

Wiki is the best place to start.
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WebRemote

If you are just using for remote control, you just turn it on and browse to the correct port using your local ip scheme.  It works pretty well!  PP offers that you can control 1 device and tell it to stream to another device - your iPhone, another computer running MC with DNLA enabled.  But if you want it simple an just for remote control, webremote works well.

If you want to just use JRiver, and send to your iPhone, you'd have to use webplay. Then you would need to convert your audio files in order to send to the iPhone. Not to confuse it more, but if you use PP as a DNLA controller and also want it to send music to your iPhone (as I mentioned above) you will need to check the convert option in JRiver/DNLA section to convert audio.

Maybe I am confusing this even more, so sorry if I am!

[machtman]

Hi, I'm new to this as well. Using JRiver MC15 on a PC and PlugPlayer on my iPad, I can stream FLAC created with EAC to the iPad and then get reasonable sound from the iPad via an iStreamer DAC to my high end stereo. The lossless files created by JRiver are not quite as good and the ALAC lossless files ripped by iTunes are hopeless. However, I would like to be independent of JRiver and the PC once I've organized the playlists. I've read about MSIC as an interface to iTUNEs but that doesn't handle FLAC files.
Do I understand things correctly, that the FLAC files I am transferring from JRiver are being converted on the fly for the iPad? If so, is there some way I can convert and export them to the same level of quality from JRiver before transferring them to iTunes? Or even better, is there some way I can simply convert and export them directly to the iPad and store them there for playing at my convenience?

Sorry about these dumb questions but the sound difference between the EAC FLAC files and the iTunes garbage is so great that it is worth going to this extra effort. And the iPad connected to an iStreamer is producing audiophile quality music so that that is not a bottleneck any more either.

thanks
Mark

[JimH]

Welcome to the forum.

If I understand correctly, you're using the iPad as a sort of Renderer (Player) and piping the output to a separate DAC.

You might take a look at the article on DLNA on our wiki.  Just as a reference.

There are many simple DLNA Renderers available for around $100.  Our JRiver Id is one.

Conversion may or may not occur, depending on settings.  MC can stream WAV if that's what you need.

When you add a Controller like Plugplayer into the mix, its role is usually to start up playback from a DLNA Server to a DLNA Renderer including itself.  Conversion may or may not be ordered.

Any lossless format should be identical, if all else is equal.

[machtman]

Hi JimH,
Thanks for the rapid response. Indeed, I've been using the iPad as a renderer with PlugPlayer and it's working quite well. MC15 is doing a great job of converting FLAC files on the fly to the iPad. However, I wanted to be independent of JRiver when I am travelling and wanted to store the converted files in ALAC format on my PC such that I could transfer them by iTunes or a different program to the iPad. I have now found that MC15 can store ALAC files as well as FLAC files and transmit them by DLNA to the iPad and that I can convert directly to ALAC format with EAC instead of to FLAC, with no loss of quality. Since neither MC15 nor iTunes rips the CDs as accurately as EAC, this solution seems to be the best for me at the moment, ripping with EAC in ALAC format, storing and organizing with JRiver and rendering from there, and transferring a subset to the iPad for travelling and to avoid having to have the PC on all the time. What I still need to test is whether MC15 can transfer properly to iTunes to make the whole procedure less time consuming. If that works, then I will happily purchase MC15 as a form of keeping my CDs and other things organized, which I haven't yet done because I was still experimenting with the different solutions.

I was pleased to find that opening MC15 under a different username connected relatively quickly to the same database, and that I only had to give permissions to the other user for the directories with the files in order to get the DLNA server to work. The reason I don't want an independent renderer to the iPad is that I want to be able to control the music output while I am using the iPad for other things like eMail or reading, which now works quite well. And the iStreamer DAC I am using on the iPad is audiophile quality and also works quite well.

best regards
Mark

[JimH]

Since neither MC15 nor iTunes rips the CDs as accurately as EAC ...

MC in secure mode will rip exactly as EAC will.  There is no difference.  This has been discussed many times.

Maybe you mean that encoding is different.  Both EAC and MC can encode as FLAC or APE or WAV.  All will provide exactly the same bitstream when played.

[machtman]

JimH
I know you're busy and it's always hard to communicate with a beginner. And I also know that you have a problem with interacting with Apple products from some of your other posts. But you're not being responsive to my questions.
I need a way to get some of my ripped files in lossless format transferred to my iPad. EAC can use an external encoder called iTunesExplore to generate m4a lossless files that I can transfer to iTunes and my iPad without problems. The command line options are
-e "Lossless Encoder" -a "%a" -l "%g" -t "%t" -g "%m" -y %y -n %n -i %s -o %d -d

When I look at the Encoder options in MC15, there are a large number of encoders but I don't see any that obviously write Lossless files for iPads and iTunes. There is an option for an external encoder but it mentions %in and %out, which doesn't match what was using for EAC. I know that MC15 converts on the fly to a renderer but I need a way to actually transfer lossless files to iTunes. If MC15 works with iTunesExplore, please help me with the command line parameters. If one of the other encoders can write m4a lossless files, then please give me explicit instructions for that? Otherwise the statement that MC in secure mode will rip exactly as EAC does doesn't help if I can't convert to a format that can be transferred to my iPad.

thanks
Mark

[JimH]

I'm sorry, but my skills aren't a good match for your needs.  And most of your needs are not related to our software.  If you can't make our external encoder do what you want, I probably can't help you accomplish your goal.

An iPad should behave like an iPhone, and there are a couple of ways to get files onto iPhones.  One is our iTunes playlist sync and the other is this third party plug-in.

Otherwise the statement that MC in secure mode will rip exactly as EAC does doesn't help if I can't convert to a format that can be transferred to my iPad.

Ripping and encoding are two different functions.  You're treating both as one, and that's understandable since they often occur in sequence.

The biggest problem in this loop may be that you're trying to use an iPad for a purpose for which it is not well suited.  An inexpensive DLNA renderer might be easier and more satisfactory.

The second problem is that you've chosen an Apple codec.  Apple routinely makes it difficult for their customers to use other software and hardware.  FLAC or APE would be simpler, and then convert to high bit rate MP3 for playback if necessary.

[machtman]

We do seem to be a cross-purposes. I have the impression that I understand what you are saying but it seems to be a one-way street.
Specific responses:
1) You recommended the new JRiver ID. I've looked it up and the price sounds good and the general specs sound good. I'm even thinking of buying one. It sounds like a good and inexpensive solution of how to send music to my high end stereo from MC15.
Cons: I don't want to keep my computer running all the time.
I don't want to buy another computer just to run a media server.
I am already getting very good service via DLNA on my iPad using PlugPublisher as a renderer connected to an iStreamer DAC connected to my stereo system,  and I don't see why I should replace it by a different wireless DAC when my solution is working and multifunctional because I can also use it to send music stored on the iPad.

2) You stated that MC15 is as good as EAC and there is no difference in quality. I have now tested the quality on music ripped with EAC to FLAC format and to m4a format and by MC15 to FLAC format. There is no difference between the FLAC formats on the iPod as a renderer. MC15 is doing a very good job of translating on the fly. However, somehow the sound is slightly more distinct with m4a format (possibly because that is native iOS?). Again MC15 is doing a great job of sending m4a but m4a is as good if not better when copied to the iPad and played directly.

This window is jumpng and I'll continue in a second mail.
Mark

[JimH]

1.  Thank you.  You don't need to leave your PC running.  It only needs to run when you stream music.  It's possible to use servers other than PC's.

2.  Comparing the sound of FLAC and M4A is interesting, but it isn't a test of ripping.  It's a (subjective) test of the codecs.

For best sound, please take a look at the Audio Output Modes article on our Wiki.

It sounds from your last post, like you want to use the iPad as an iPod.  In other words, just play files from it directly to an amplifier.  For that, you only need a music player on the iPad, but you probably know that.

[machtman]

New window. Continuation.
So MC15 is doing a great job of ripping and converting to FLAC. However, when I try to send the FLAC files to iTunes and my iPad, which it recognized, they never arrive, probably because iTunes doesn't know about FLAC. So even if the quality of ripping of MC15 and EAC is equal, one of them (EAC) compresses directly to m4a, which sounds as good as FLAC and can be sent to iTunes and my iPad, and the other (MC15) doesn't.

One solution would be to use DLNA for everything, which is what you keep suggesting. DLNA is great, works well, gives me access to MC. But I don't want to keep a media server running continuously (see above). So MC15 is not doing exactly what I wanted, which is to save ripped files directly as m4a or ALAC. So EAC is more useful to me for ripping because it is less work. Furthermore, EAC is doing a much better job of finding the cover art in the internet than MC15. MC15 would immediately become more useful if there were a simple way to compress to m4a or alac format using an external program. But you wrote that your skills are not a good match for these needs. So what I will do is keep playing with the combination EAC for ripping, MC15 for storage and DLNA. I will also test whether I can transfer directly from MC15 to iTunes and my iPad once I have some more m4a files in MC15. If this works well for me, I will buy the full version of MC15 in the next few days and am still toying with the idea of buying your ID. But life would be a lot simpler if you supported an external converter that saved data as m4a format.

Thanks
Mark

[machtman]

Thank you. Yes, I realize I only need to leave the PC running when I stream music. What other servers are there?
I accept that comparing sound isn't a test of ripping. What I really look for is not the sound as such but for the depth of the stage and the dynamics and whether the music is clear according to source. I use the first track of John Cage's Works for Percussion recorded by Quatuor Helios in 1991 because it includes multiple instruments that are difficult to reproduce by stereo systems. I don't listen for warmth or anything except lack of distortion.

I want to use the iPad as an iPod while I am also using it for other things such as eMails, internet, reading books and lying on the sofa. Yes I am playing directly to an preamplifier via a 10 m cable and I am using the iPod app on the iPad to play music that I have stored on it. However, it only has 64 GB storage and the capabilities of the iPod app are limited so I can see using MC15 as my primary database and occasionally copying over a selection of m4a files to the iPod and otherwise using MC15 to browse through the whole CD collection. Is there another music player that would be potentially better for the iPad than the standard iPod player? I'm not all that enthused by the iPod player and would be just as happy to try a different app.

Thanks again for all the information.
Mark