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[shAf]

When I use MC15 to play a DVD, my AVR is apparently not recognizing the audio stream properly for decoding.  That is, if I were to ask the AVR which type of encoded stream it's processing it simply states "PCM", and not (e.g.) Dolby 5.1.

For outputting audio via HDMI, is there a specific setting somewhere that I should be modifying?  Let me know if I can provide additional info regarding my system.

TIA 

[glynor]

Either MC itself or the DirectShow filters you are using for playback (probably FFDSHOW) is set to decode the multichannel sources rather than pass them through.

In MC, under Tools -> Options -> Video, make sure that Connection Type is set to Digital (Surround, supports AC3 and DTS).  You may also have to set the Playback Device to Default Windows rather than Same as Audio (otherwise the DSP settings you have, like JRSS 2.0, will apply to the output).

In FFDSHOW's Audio Decoder Config, make sure the Dolby Decoder is NOT enabled, and make sure the Pass-through options on the Output section are all enabled (though don't enable TrueHD and DTS HD if your AVR doesn't support those formats).

[jmone]

FYI - I decode all my bitstreams to PCM in the PC and send them over HDMI to the AVR, like all things there are:
Advantages to decoding to PCM on the PC:
- You can apply other Post Processing functions provided by MC's JRSS, Reclock, FFDSHOW, etc
- It is the same quality

Advantages to decoding to PCM on the AVR:
- The little lights on the AVR light up for the codec it is decoding
- Currently there is no freeware DTS-HD decoder for the PC
- It is the same quality

There may be some argument that the DAC stage is better on a particular device but, for the decompression from "CodecX" to PCM is the same regardless where it is done (it is just like unzipping a file).

Thanks
Nathan

The only downside is you don't see your pretty lights turn on.

[shAf]

Thanks for your help, and I'm sorry for a long post, but I'm in a pickle now, and want to provide as much info as you might need.

After playing with a few settings, I've accidentally enabled the HTPC's SPDIF out, which has apparently disabled HDMI out.  Now I cannot figure out if it's a MC15 setting that will bring back HDMI, or if it's a Windows XP setting ... I believe I've looked everywhere and tried just about everything without any luck.  If I configure the AVR's HDMI input to listen to the coaxial SPDIF input I have sound, but it would defeat any effort to configure the HTPC and AVR as suggested by jmone.  Even while I have sound, I still have DVD playback problems ...

MC15's video parameters for DVD playback (VOB, IFO) are currently all set to "automatic", and a DVD will play ... but as soon as I ask MC to reverse or fast forward, MC will crash.  If I simply restart MC again and try to play the DVD, it will play in a frame-by-frame slow motion, and only re-booting the computer will fix this.  When re-booted I still have the problems with Rev & FF.  DVD's were playing fine at one time, but my attempts at optimizing audio for DVD surround have messed things up and I cannot figure out how to return settings to where they were.  Is there a way to reset these parameters to "as installed".  I've tried removing MC15 (including registry settings), but that didn't work ...

I'm also in a quandry as to what information I can provide ... there are so many permutations of parameters, and that's for each of "Playback Method", "Audio decoders", "video decoders", "video rendoring" ... which is why they're all currently set to 'automatic' as a point to start.

So let me at least begin with glynor's and jmone's responses ...

Either MC itself or the DirectShow filters you are using for playback (probably FFDSHOW) is set to decode the multichannel sources rather than pass them through.

To begin with, I probably need to find a way to re-enable my HDMI, but I can also try to return all 3 (MC, DS, FFD) to their defaults (which is pass thru??).  Regarding FDDSow, I have it installed via the CCCP (2009-09-09) package, so simply disabling the 'Dolby decoder' is different what is shown at MC's help wiki.  I've never played with the CCCP settings, but they are everything is checked, except 'MT' (H.264/AVC), the SPDIF options, and "FFDShow Audio Settings" are set for '2/0/0 Stereo' with DRC disabled.

In MC, under Tools -> Options -> Video, make sure that Connection Type is set to Digital (Surround, supports AC3 and DTS).

... check!

You may also have to set the Playback Device to Default Windows rather than Same as Audio (otherwise the DSP settings you have, like JRSS 2.0, will apply to the output).

... set to "Default Windows playback device" ...

In FFDSHOW's Audio Decoder Config, make sure the Dolby Decoder is NOT enabled, and make sure the Pass-through options on the Output section are all enabled (though don't enable TrueHD and DTS HD if your AVR doesn't support those formats).

It is the CCCP UI, so I may need help specifically with the options it presents.  Or, you can feel free to tell me to uninstall CCCP and suggest a different installation of FDDShow consistent with what the MC Wiki believes is installed.  I also have other codecs intalled (that show under installed programs) ... "Haali Media Splitter", "CoreAVC", "XP Codec Pack 2.0.7.1", "DivX", "Ogg codecs" ... and then there's iTunes (for my iPod).  I could begin with un-installing everything, except what is required (suggested) for MC15 ... but I see no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater yet ... leastwise, not without advice.

Regarding jmones suggestions, I will consider decoding within MC playback ... but I do need to find a way to re-enable HDMI first.  I've even disconnected the coaxial input, configured the AVR's HDMI input for listening to its own audio, turned everything off and on, but still nothing ... WAAAAA!

Lastly, let me be frank ... I've been reluctant to use MC for DVD playback ... I've never been able to get it to work bug-free, all the parameters for setting MC up make my head hurt, and dedicated players (e.g., WinDVD) have worked out of the gate.  Still, I'd really like to make MC & DVDs work, so I appreciate all your help.  If I were to make a suggestion to JRiver, it would be to (1) create a "system info" applet that would encompass and categorize all settings, rather than what the current 'Help=>System Info' provides ... (2) create a way of saving a configuration (e.g., installation defaults) so that they can be returned to.  There's also much that I don't understand, so I hope you can be patient ... all your responses are helpful and are appreciated, and I can also hope my problems will help others!!

TIA 

[JimH]

I would install CCCP and set MC to automatic.   CCCP has a filter cleaner program that you might consider using.

Audio Playback should be set as in the "Audio Output" article on our Wiki.

See if that works, then tune things if you want to.

[shAf]

I would install CCCP and set MC to automatic.   CCCP has a filter cleaner program that you might consider using.

Thanks for a prompt response JimH!!  I noticed a new version of CCCP was available, so I uninstalled the old and installed the new.  Now if I check the CCCP parameters, 'MT' is enabled, but 'H.264/AVC' is not(?) ... and neither are 'DXVA H264' or 'VC1'.  A new setting under "Alternative H.264 decoders", 'CoreAVC' is not enabled either(?)  Is there an up-to-date Wiki article for this version of CCCP??

Audio Playback should be set as in the "Audio Output" article on our Wiki.

I've set that to 'Direct Sound' as per the Wiki's "Audio Output Modes" ... all video options are still at 'automatic' ...

I still have problems (see below), but I was able to get HDMI back by uninstalling the AMD driver for the Radeon card that supplies HDMI, and update the driver.  Now MC will play MP3 audio thru HDMI.

However, my first attempt at playing DVD resulted in a picture but no sound.  I checked MC's audio output settings again and noticed that "Output mode settings" was pointing to the device 'ATI HD audio rear output', which I didn't figure was correct, so I changed it to 'primary sound driver'.  When I tried to play a DVD ... still no sound and no picture!!  The last device is 'Realtek HD audio output', which gets my picture back, but no audio ... (note that FF & Rev are now working, so something has at least been fixed ...<g>...)

The weird thing is that setting the device to 'ATI HD audio rear output' allows for music audio to be sent out HDMI (or maybe it's just the rear?) ... the other device settings send audio out SPDIF, even the DVD audio(?)

So ... I'm not quite at the point of fine-tuning   

[glynor]

The only downside is you don't see your pretty lights turn on.

For the record, I agree with this completely.  Though, if you don't want effects applied, there is also little benefit to doing the decoding on the PC, so why spend the cpu cycles?

I know what's going on with your setup, or at least partially... But I'm too busy right this second to write up a response.  It sounds very much like you are over-thinking it a lot and doing much more work than is necessary.

Also, set the AMD HDMI Output as your Primary Sound Device in Windows.  I don't remember exactly how to do it in XP, but I think you can right-click on the Speaker Icon in the system tray and modify it from in there somehow.

[JimH]

Thanks for a prompt response JimH!!  I noticed a new version of CCCP was available, so I uninstalled the old and installed the new.  Now if I check the CCCP parameters, 'MT' is enabled, but 'H.264/AVC' is not(?) ... and neither are 'DXVA H264' or 'VC1'.  A new setting under "Alternative H.264 decoders", 'CoreAVC' is not enabled either(?)  Is there an up-to-date Wiki article for this version of CCCP??

Try getting it going with CCCP's default settings first before you make any changes.

Make sure you choose "automatic" in MC's options for the filetypes.

[jmone]

For the record, I agree with this completely.  Though, if you don't want effects applied, there is also little benefit to doing the decoding on the PC, so why spend the cpu cycles?

But I'm saving the ones in the AVR! 

[shAf]

Try getting it going with CCCP's default settings first before you make any changes.

Make sure you choose "automatic" in MC's options for the filetypes.

A response from the Rage3D Radeon forum suggested I disable the onboard audio (Realtek), and now I have audio out of HDMI exclusively.  The Realtek device still shows as "Realtek HD Rear Audio", which is a bit of a mystery, but all the channels are there and it does sound great!

Currently, I'm having the AVR apply its own DSP surround synthesis to the music audio, and I think I want it that way because it may be easier to "color" the genres appropriately.  However, I believe it'll be necessary to decode DVD audio with the HTPC (ala jmone), which leaves me with only a few questions towards fine tuning ...

(1)  Whether decoded withing MC, or passed thru HDMI for the AVR to decode, I'm not sure Windows XP is currently capable of the bandwidth.  What OS are you using jmone??

(2)  I assume knowledge (a tutorial?) regarding IFO decoding within MC is available at the Wiki ... I haven't found it yet ...  Or, possibly there is a "How to" topic in the "Sound Cards, DAC's, Receivers, and Speakers" forum? (... I haven't found that either)

(3)  I also hope that music (stereo) can be treated independently from encoded DVD bitstreams ... true?

Thanks again!!  

[glynor]

You don't need the HTPC to decode the streams, nor do you need to disable the Realtek output (though it wouldn't hurt if you won't be using it).

1. Set the Windows default playback device to the HDMI Audio Output, and configure Windows to "think" you only have two speakers (stereo mode).  That way, when a stereo source plays, Windows won't send blank channels to the other speakers, and the AVR will do the surround mixing.  Again, I don't know the exact procedure for doing this on XP anymore, but I know that you can do it.  Right click on the speaker icon in the system tray.

2. Set the CCCP Setup wizard to "No Mixing" mode on the first page.  Don't worry about the other stuff, the defaults are fine.

3. Open the FFDSHOW Audio Decoder Configuration tool (Start -> Programs -> CCCP -> Filters -> FFDSHOW Audio Decoder Configuration).

4. In the FFDSHOW tool, make sure that the Dolby Decoder is UNCHECKED.

5. Switch to the Output section (use the "tree" on the left of the tool), and ENABLE ALL of the Pass-Through options.  Do not encode to AC3.  You may also need to turn on the Resampler in FFDSHOW for this to work reliably, but probably not.

6. Set MC using the options I explained above.  You can configure the Music settings completely separately (I'd put the audio setting on WASAPI).

[shAf]

hello Glynor ... and thanks for your input ...

I'll certainly look at this suggestions, but I wonder how dependent they may be on my OS being Windows 7 (eg, WASAPI)?? ... my OS is Win XP (sp3)

My computer will support the 32bit version of Win7, but no one has yet implied there's any difference between 32bit and 64bit in this regard.

I also notice that my AVR can only apply its own DSP if I choose kernel streaming ... and I wonder what the side-effect of this will be(?)

Thanks again!! 

[glynor]

I'll certainly look at this suggestions, but I wonder how dependent they may be on my OS being Windows 7 (eg, WASAPI)?? ... my OS is Win XP (sp3)

With the possible exception of setting the Audio Output mode to WASAPI, none of what I suggested is affected by the OS at all (and the WASAPI thing doesn't have any effect on video playback).

[shAf]

1. Set the Windows default playback device to the HDMI Audio Output, and configure Windows to "think" you only have two speakers (stereo mode).  That way, when a stereo source plays, Windows won't send blank channels to the other speakers, and the AVR will do the surround mixing.  Again, I don't know the exact procedure for doing this on XP anymore, but I know that you can do it.  Right click on the speaker icon in the system tray.

I don't have control over Windows sound devices anymore, probably because I disabled the onboard Realtek audio ... but the default device is pointing to the Radeon HD audio ...

2. Set the CCCP Setup wizard to "No Mixing" mode on the first page.  Don't worry about the other stuff, the defaults are fine.

The only place I could find "no mixing" on the CCCP 1st page was under "FFDShow Audio Settings" ...

3. Open the FFDSHOW Audio Decoder Configuration tool (Start -> Programs -> CCCP -> Filters -> FFDSHOW Audio Decoder Configuration).

4. In the FFDSHOW tool, make sure that the Dolby Decoder is UNCHECKED.

... it is disabled ...

5. Switch to the Output section (use the "tree" on the left of the tool), and ENABLE ALL of the Pass-Through options.  Do not encode to AC3.  You may also need to turn on the Resampler in FFDSHOW for this to work reliably, but probably not.

All pass-thru options enabled ... however, note that "Dolby Digital (AC3)" is one of the pass-thru options, but AC3 also shows below under "Output format for uncompressed steams", and it is disabled ...

6. Set MC using the options I explained above.  You can configure the Music settings completely separately (I'd put the audio setting on WASAPI).

Thanks for your help with a very complex UI.  I'll post back and let you know if I've succeeded ...

Edit:  I believe it's working ... onscreen info for DVD audio indicates PCM, 192kHz,, 3/2/0.1, but nothing for bitrate or dialog ... I suppose I expected to also indicate the DSP type (e.g., Dolby Digital 5.1).  Does the MC control allow access to the DVD's audio options for selecting what's available? -- I could only find the main menu ...

Edit#2:  One thing of note is that my Yamaha AVR indicates that any post-decoding enhancements for "Movies" (e.g., "Drama, Action, ...) are "not available".  This in contrast to the music, for which the enhancements are available, but which are "not available" if I configure MC for anything other than 'kernel streaming' (e.g., Direct Sound, Wave Out)

[glynor]

The only place I could find "no mixing" on the CCCP 1st page was under "FFDShow Audio Settings" ...

Right.

All pass-thru options enabled ... however, note that "Dolby Digital (AC3)" is one of the pass-thru options, but AC3 also shows below under "Output format for uncompressed steams", and it is disabled ...

Yes.  This is correct.

Edit#2:  One thing of note is that my Yamaha AVR indicates that any post-decoding enhancements for "Movies" (e.g., "Drama, Action, ...) are "not available".  This in contrast to the music, for which the enhancements are available, but which are "not available" if I configure MC for anything other than 'kernel streaming' (e.g., Direct Sound, Wave Out)

I'm not 100% positive what modes you're talking about, but I think I know what you mean.  If they are what I think they are, they generally will not be available for encoded 5.1 formats like Dolby Digital and DTS-MA.  Dolby Digital, DTS, and all of the other "true" surround formats are already encoded with discrete speaker tracks, balanced the way the creator intended.

The whole idea of those "surround enhancement" modes is to expand stereo sources to surround.  Personally, for video playback, I generally like DTS Neo 6 better than the manufacturer specific ones, but maybe the ones on the Yamaha are very nice.  Either way, you will be able to use them when you play something that was recorded in stereo.  This will work as long as you have the default Windows playback device set to output only 2 channels (you did do this, right?).  With these settings, any time when there is no "native" 5.1 encoded track, and where MC doesn't specifically mix a 5.1 output (via JRSS for music), your receiver will receive a plain stereo feed via the HDMI.  It should auto-sense this and then switch to the surround expansion mode that you used last (at least that's what my Denon does).

[shAf]

The whole idea of those "surround enhancement" modes is to expand stereo sources to surround.  Personally, for video playback, I generally like DTS Neo 6 better than the manufacturer specific ones, but maybe the ones on the Yamaha are very nice.  Either way, you will be able to use them when you play something that was recorded in stereo.  This will work as long as you have the default Windows playback device set to output only 2 channels (you did do this, right?).  ...

As it turns out, having disabled the mobo's onboard audio removed any option for me to choose the number of speakers, so MC MP3 playback via HDMI must be defaulting to 2 channels.  However, this particular setting may have been contributing to my problems all along, because I had set it for 5.1 speakers believing Windows wanted to anticipate my listening experience(?)  It is not a setting that MC users may be aware of, but it would seem integral to whether or not they are decoding channels within MC, or handing the bitsteams off to the AVR for decoding.  I'm certainly thankful you took the time for sharing your knowledge!

Cheerios from a happy camper!! 

[shAf]

I believe it's working ... onscreen info for DVD audio indicates PCM, 192kHz,, 3/2/0.1, ...

I believe I spoke too soon.  The above is true, but I should be able to see whether it's been decoded to Dts or DD -- ie, in place of PCM, it should state "Dts" or "DD" if it's being decoded properly.

I did a test: (A)  I played a DVD via MC15 (using the HTPC's DVD drive), and my AVR reported "PCM".  Then, (B) I played the same DVD with a DVD player connected to the AVR in the exact same way as my PC (ie, HDMI to HDMI), and the AVR reported "DD" (for Dolby Digital 5.1).  The difference in sound was night v. day

My settings are IAW Glynor's & JimH's suggestions (above) ... would anyone else have something to contribute?

TIA 

[shAf]

... would anyone else have something to contribute?

... anyone? ...please!

TIA 

[glynor]

Can we get some screenshots of the different relevant settings...

I'd like to see MC's Options -> Video,  FFDSHOW Audio Decoder's config dialog, and MC's DSP Output Format settings dialog.

[shAf]

Can we get some screenshots of the different relevant settings...

I'd like to see MC's Options -> Video,  FFDSHOW Audio Decoder's config dialog, and MC's DSP Output Format settings dialog.

The screen grabs are below.  Hopefully it's enough info, but there are so many parameters beyond setting the video options to 'automatic' and deeper into CCCp or FDDShow.  Let me know if there's anything else to post ...

Now that MC16 is into the limelight, I hope that JR will support video a bit better in the sense of minimally providing a troubleshooting tool that goes after this very type of information gathering.

Lastly ... thank you Glynor for your interest and help!!! 

[glynor]

Almost enough... I need the FFDSHOW Audio Decoder configuration dialog.  That's perhaps the most important one.  In particular, I need a screenshot of the Output "section" of FFDShow's dialog.

[shAf]

Almost enough... I need the FFDSHOW Audio Decoder configuration dialog.  That's perhaps the most important one.  In particular, I need a screenshot of the Output "section" of FFDShow's dialog.

OK  

Edit:  Looking at these options, I see that not all "pass-though" options are enabled.  Could this be the problem ... because I doubt that I have actually tried to play any of those that are enabled(?) ... but why would some be enabled and others not?  It would appear I should at least try enabling "Dolby Digital (AC3)" and try again(?)  In any case, I'll look forward to your reply ...

[glynor]

AC3 and DTS (the two you have disabled) are much more common formats than any of the others.  They are the ONLY formats supported on DVD from that list, so that would seem to be a big portion of your problem.

Otherwise, you may want to check the 24-bit through 32-bit FP options, because otherwise it will use lower quality on output than your AVR can handle for decoded streams (mostly vanilla stereo files with no AC3 or DTS tracks).

Otherwise, all of those settings look good.

[glynor]

Also.... None of those options you have configured in the DSP Studio are enabled.  This is fine, really, as they'll only apply to music with your configuration anyway.  However, if you want JRSS to expand your stereo sources to 5.1, you'll want to turn that on (and leave it otherwise configured as-is).

[shAf]

AC3 and DTS (the two you have disabled) are much more common formats than any of the others.  They are the ONLY formats supported on DVD from that list, so that would seem to be a big portion of your problem.

I had high hopes last night, but unfortunately the problem remains.  That is, I made the suggested modifications to the FDDShow configuration, but if I play a DVD with the most recent MC15 and ask my AVR to show the decoded bitstream, it reports "PCM/192kbps//3/2/0.1" ... and if I play the same DVD using my DVD player, the AVR reports "DD/480kbps//3/2/0.1" (ie, Dolby Digital 5.1) and the difference is dramatic.

Regarding the FDDShow audio configuration dialog, I actually found 2 instances of it.  The dialog I showed previously was accessed via the Windows start menus (Programs=>CCCP=>Filters=>FDDShow audio), but I also found the same dialog via MC=>options=>Audio=>DSP output=>Audio decoders=>FDDShow=>Configure" ... and the strange thing was the settings were different!!  In contrast to the dialog previously shown, the settings that MC was apparently using (if using FFDShow when automatic was set) were all "passthru" decode types were enabled, but that only the 16bit "output format" was enabled.  Therefore, if MC was using FFDShow automatically, then it should have been working before.  I tried choosing FDDShow explicitly, but to no effect.  I tried a few other settings too, but they resulted only in painful noise coming thru the speakers.  One has to believe "there has to be a setting somewhere!?"

Let me back up to reaffirm that I am trying to output a proper DVD bitstream from my HTPC (XP-sp3) via HDMI to my AVR for decoding -- and my HDMI connection to the AVR is via a Radeon 5450 video card (driver up to date).  My only audio device is the Radeon because I disabled the Realtek device on the motherboard (which didn't work either -- it was sending audio out the SPDIF, which I didn't want).  My next efforts will be with the Rage3D Radeon forum, but troubleshooting MC also leaves me with questions regarding where it is getting its configuration information, or maybe my question is with FDDShow (or CCCP) regarding where it's putting its audio configuration(?)

Thank you Glynor ... I'll post back here if I think I have a pertinent question, or if I find the remedy ... stay tuned!  

[shAf]

I thought I'd put this topic finally to rest, although I'm sure it's not what a lot of people want to hear ...

I upgraded from XP to Windows 7 (64bit), and besides the only adjustment needed being pointing 'Audio Output' at the "HDMI device" (because DVD audio was quiet while it was set to "default device"), it played as advertised right out of the gate ... no codecs, no FDDShow, nothin' but MC16 ...

Granted, I may have seen the same results if I had re-installed XP from scratch, but I think the result would have been standard DVDs being played properly, but from my research into HD audio, audio drivers for XP weren't designed to handle the HD bitstreams that come with Blu-ray.

Finally, a happy camper ... and thanx to all those who helped 

[glynor]

I upgraded from XP to Windows 7 (64bit)

You'll be happy for lots of reasons other than this one.