Topic: CD ripping painfully slow on brand new PC (Read 54449 times)

kosmicken · « **on:** January 21, 2011, 06:52:14 pm »

The problem is exactly what the subject says. I'm ripping CD's to my library, and I'm getting average speeds of about 1.5-2x. I'm encoding using WMA, and I've tried several different constant bit rates, as well as VBR, and I've tried normal as well as secure rip. Switching from secure to normal brings it up to about 3x, but that's still pretty slow. The problem occurs whether CD rip speed is set for max, or even if I manually set it to 8x. I'm using an LG DVD/CD burner, model GH24LS50, and the specs say it is capable of 48X read for CD-ROM. Am I missing something?

MC 15.173 on Windows 7 Professional 64-bit.

Scolex · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2011, 07:14:37 pm »

edit: I should open my eyes I missed where you mentioned secure.

Have you checked speed using mp3 (LAME)?
I have never used wma so I don't know how slow that is
I have a 22x lite on and rip at 9-11x on a core 2 duo @ 3gHz and 8GB RAM @ 1066

kosmicken · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2011, 07:18:34 pm »

Here's another piece of info. For comparison, I tried using Windows Media Player. Ripping in the Windows Media format set for high quality VBR, I just ripped a 5 minute track in about 20 seconds! So the problem does seem to be with MC, not my hardware.

Scolex · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2011, 07:26:03 pm »

Do you have the personal rights management enabled?

kosmicken · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2011, 08:21:16 pm »

kosmicken · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2011, 09:12:24 pm »

I just noticed that you edited your post above to ask if I tried the mp3 encoder. Yes, I did. I tried several different bit rates, and I still get around 1.7x every time.

For now I will just use Windows Media Player to rip my CD's, but I want to get to the bottom of this. I can't find any reason why MC should not rip them just as quickly.

JimH · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2011, 09:18:09 pm »

Problems like this often turn out to be caused by a virus checker.

Ripping to WAV might tell you whether the problem is with the actual ripping or with the encoding.

kosmicken · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2011, 10:54:30 pm »

I tried uncompressed WAV and still the same problem.

How on earth could it possibly be related to a virus scanner, especially if the problem doesn't occur when I rip in WMP?

DarkPenguin · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2011, 11:40:06 pm »

As an aside I've a disc that MC locked up trying to read that I ended up ripping with WMP. Wasn't able to even make it to the ripping stage in MC.

Of the ridiculous number of discs I've recently re-ripped (could you make that less painful? I'd like my play counts.) it has been mostly 80's CDs that have give me grief. Otherwise everything else has ripped as expected.

DarkPenguin · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2011, 11:46:03 pm »

He's tried that.

[Matt: yes, I just edited my post -- I had missed his mention of secure mode]

Matt · « **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2011, 11:47:10 pm »

Quote from: kosmicken on January 21, 2011, 10:54:30 pm

I tried uncompressed WAV and still the same problem.

How on earth could it possibly be related to a virus scanner, especially if the problem doesn't occur when I rip in WMP?

You'd be amazed at what a virus scanner can slow down or break.

A good test would be to convert some WAV files to MP3 or WMA using Library Tools > Convert Format. Is that equally slow?

Also, try outputting to a different drive (like your C:\) drive.

Thanks, and let us know what you find.

Frobozz · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2011, 01:27:38 am »

You're not going to get 48x ripping speed doing a secure mode (or similar) rip that does error detection and correction. The programs that rip fast aren't doing error detection or correction. CDs with scratches or scuffs are probably going to rip slowly.

Some CD/DVD burning and similar tools install extra drivers that can interfere with the operation of other programs that use the CD/DVD drive.

One tool that can help identify drivers that are loaded and even identify a few that are known bad neighbors is ImgBurn. It's a freeware burning utility. As a side benefit it also lets you query a little bit of info about what CD/DVD related drivers are loaded.

Run ImgBurn and look to see if it notes any potential problems in its log window. You can also go to its Tools menu and look at "Filter Driver Load Order..." You can google the names of the filter drivers that are shown to see if any are known bad neighbors and find out what application possibly installed it. This info might help trace down the cause of the slow rips or might not.

Skogkatt · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2011, 03:03:54 am »

Based on my experience I suspect the problem could lie on the LG drive when used under MC.

My machine uses two CD/DVD burners: an old NEC which rips fast (up to 14X at the end of the disc), and a LG that rips painfully slow (2-2.5X - same disc) no matter what I do.
I have read somewhere that some LG drives slow down considerably when reading audio CDs to reduce the mechanical noise. The LG drive does what it is supposed to do when
playing a CD (silent!!!) but, unfortunately, does the same when ripping (silent but slow!), even when I set "max. read speed when ripping" under MC options.

To be honest I never tried to use the LG drive to rip using a different ripper SW as my NEC works flawlessly and fast under MC.

JimH · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2011, 07:36:05 am »

Quote from: DarkPenguin on January 21, 2011, 11:40:06 pm

As an aside I've a disc that MC locked up trying to read that I ended up ripping with WMP. Wasn't able to even make it to the ripping stage in MC.

What would you take for the disc?

tunetyme · « **Reply #14 on:** January 22, 2011, 11:11:58 am »

One of the things I have noticed with my Plextor Premium and 880SA is some discs have a lot of C1 and C2 errors. When this occurs the rip process slows down considerably.

I am a die hard EAC fan and I use the error correction mode. The best I can do is about 8x. I know MC has a great ripper but I am a creature of habit.

When EAC slows down to a crawl I know that the disc has some serious problems. I then check it with my Plextor Premium drive tools. I return the disc if it has any uncorrectable errors or a concentrated very high rate of errors in any portion of the disc. The Plextor Premium will check the the errors so I can provide proof of the poor quality pressing. When you have a high rate of errors it is difficult to accurately do error correction and the song or songs end up with a lot of distortion. This is very audible in some cases and in others you find that it is just irritating to listen to.

Some of the record companies try to squeeze out more pressings than the die can faithfully produce. I have found this to be true when a CD has been on the market for a long time and what you are buying is the later pressings. This creates a strong argument to buy a CD when it is first released.

Tunetyme

DarkPenguin · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2011, 11:17:02 am »

Quote from: JimH on January 22, 2011, 07:36:05 am

What would you take for the disc?

I'd just drop it off except it is winging its way back to Amazon.

Magic_Randy · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2011, 08:55:29 am »

Quote from: DarkPenguin on January 22, 2011, 11:17:02 am

I'd just drop it off except it is winging its way back to Amazon.

I had the same thing, but it was only one track out of 20k plus tracks I have. I did the same thing and sent it back to amazon but the replacement was the same. I'd send mine to Jim but I don't remember which CD it was.

DarkPenguin · « **Reply #17 on:** January 23, 2011, 09:42:19 am »

Quote from: Magic_Randy on January 23, 2011, 08:55:29 am

I had the same thing, but it was only one track out of 20k plus tracks I have. I did the same thing and sent it back to amazon but the replacement was the same. I'd send mine to Jim but I don't remember which CD it was.

If the new one fails I'll send it in.

kosmicken · « **Reply #18 on:** January 23, 2011, 11:35:08 am »

All of these seem like reasonable explanations and suggestions, except for the fact that I don't have this problem with speed when ripping the same CD from the same drive in Windows Media Player. Why would it work in one program and not another?

Quote

You'd be amazed at what a virus scanner can slow down or break.

Okay. Tried disabling it. Still slow.

Quote

A good test would be to convert some WAV files to MP3 or WMA using Library Tools > Convert Format. Is that equally slow?

Well, I don't think that's the problem. I just converted a 5-minute lossless WAV to WMA in about 10 seconds!

Quote

You're not going to get 48x ripping speed doing a secure mode (or similar) rip that does error detection and correction.

I don't expect to. But 8-10x would be nice, which is what I seem to get in WMP on this computer, and in MC on other computers.

Quote

Based on my experience I suspect the problem could lie on the LG drive when used under MC.

My machine uses two CD/DVD burners: an old NEC which rips fast (up to 14X at the end of the disc), and a LG that rips painfully slow (2-2.5X - same disc) no matter what I do.
I have read somewhere that some LG drives slow down considerably when reading audio CDs to reduce the mechanical noise. The LG drive does what it is supposed to do when
playing a CD (silent!!!) but, unfortunately, does the same when ripping (silent but slow!), even when I set "max. read speed when ripping" under MC options.

This sounds like a very reasonable explanation. When I have some time, I will pull out an old drive and install it on this machine and see how it performs. I will report my findings here. I still point back to my first sentence in this post, though.

Frobozz · « **Reply #19 on:** January 23, 2011, 08:33:52 pm »

Try comparing the rip speed using EAC (Exact Audio Copy) instead of WMP. WMP isn't a fair comparison since it doesn't do proper error checking/correction. Comparing against EAC is a more fair comparison.

Try ripping in MC using "Normal" mode instead of "Secure". Does it still slow way down?

EAC can do both secure mode style rips and burst mode style rips. Secure mode is the error checking/correcting method. Burst mode is more similar to the way WMP rips.

If you have the option and means, put two optical drives in your computer. Sometimes one drive may choke on a particular CD while the other drive won't. I have two drives in my music ripping computer. Sometimes one drive will rip a CD cleanly when the other drive chokes or slows way down or has uncorrectable errors.

kosmicken · « **Reply #20 on:** January 23, 2011, 11:13:08 pm »

Why does everyone seem to miss my mention of secure mode in my original post? To quote myself:

Quote

Switching from secure to normal brings it up to about 3x, but that's still pretty slow.

tunetyme · « **Reply #21 on:** January 25, 2011, 10:11:48 am »

Quote from: kosmicken on January 23, 2011, 11:13:08 pm

Why does everyone seem to miss my mention of secure mode in my original post? To quote myself:

I don't think anyone missed that statement. The issue is Winamp doesn't have very much credibility as a ripper here. Most of us use MC or EAC to ensure a good accurate rip. Secure mode will slow down the process considerably when you have a disc with a lot of C1, C2 or uncorrectable errors. Some rippers simply ignore the errors and breeze through the process. To get a fair look at what is going on perhaps you should rip 10 or so CDs and then we can see if this is a consistent problem or unique to your CD or drive.

Tunetyme

glynor · « **Reply #22 on:** January 25, 2011, 01:55:28 pm »

Just to check because sometimes issues come in pairs or threes...

What are the specs of the machine you're using? I'm just wondering if it isn't another case of the bad AMD SB drivers rearing it's ugly head.

Alex B · « **Reply #23 on:** January 25, 2011, 03:24:53 pm »

Quote from: kosmicken on January 23, 2011, 11:35:08 am

...But 8-10x would be nice, which is what I seem to get in WMP on this computer, and in MC on other computers.

...This sounds like a very reasonable explanation. When I have some time, I will pull out an old drive and install it on this machine and see how it performs. I will report my findings here. I still point back to my first sentence in this post, though.

I have tested some drives. The secure ripping speeds were from 2.9x to 12.7x in identical test conditions:
"Topic: Recommended drives for secure ripping. Test your drives & post the results".

Could you please try a test setup that is similar to mine and post your results in the linked thread? Thanks.

kosmicken · « **Reply #24 on:** January 27, 2011, 07:09:34 pm »

Quote

Try comparing the rip speed using EAC (Exact Audio Copy) instead of WMP. WMP isn't a fair comparison since it doesn't do proper error checking/correction. Comparing against EAC is a more fair comparison.

Alright. EAC in Secure Mode = 1.7x, same as MC15 in Secure Mode. EAC in Burst Mode = 25x. Now why can't MC in normal mode do that? As stated in my original post, with Secure Mode turned off, MC still only produces about 3x. Although Windows Media Player doesn't display the speed as it rips, it seems like it rips tracks just about as quickly as EAC in Burst Mode.

Quote

What are the specs of the machine you're using? I'm just wondering if it isn't another case of the bad AMD SB drivers rearing it's ugly head.

AMD Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition 3.2GHz
Asus M4A88T-EVO/USB3 motherboard
4GB RAM
WD Caviar Blue 160GB system drive
Seagate Barracuda 1TB documents drive
LG DVD burner Model GH24LS50

I hope to have time tonight or tomorrow to open up my system and throw in an extra drive I have lying around to see if it is, in fact, the drive.

tunetyme · « **Reply #25 on:** January 27, 2011, 08:10:47 pm »

If speed is your only concern then use a ripper that is the fastest for your drive. If you are ripping to an MP3 format I am sure that will be fine. If you are interested in lossles high quality "bit perfect" rip then use MC or EAC in the secure mode. It takes longer it's worth the wait. I am approaching 30,000 tracks that have all been ripped with EAC secure mode. I started using EAC long before discovering MC and accuracy is the most important task. While I am absolutely confident that MC provides an equally bit perfect rip I still continue with EAC out of habit.

Tunetyme

kosmicken · « **Reply #26 on:** January 27, 2011, 08:48:42 pm »

Ever since I have learned about Secure Mode (which was before this thread), I want to use it. No, I don't rip lossless, but I still want accuracy. And I want to use MC because I want to use a single program to manage every aspect of my library. I don't like having to use a few features in each of several similar programs to accomplish want I want. When it comes to media management, MC should be, and is, able to do it all.

DarkPenguin · « **Reply #27 on:** January 30, 2011, 12:45:54 pm »

Just adding a data point here. I'm into my final box of CDs and am averaging over 10x on secure rips. Oh, and Big Head Todd and the Monsters Beautiful World comes up with 2 apparently identical choices.

tunetyme · « **Reply #28 on:** January 31, 2011, 12:57:40 am »

kosmicken:

You may want to consider ripping to a lossless format. While I don't use MP3 format for anything it is my understanding from other threads that you can automatically convert and sync with your ipod from MC. That way you have a bit perfect backup of your CD in MC as well as the ability to copy your music to any format you wish.

Tunetyme

MrC · « **Reply #29 on:** January 31, 2011, 12:25:25 pm »

Quote from: kosmicken on January 27, 2011, 08:48:42 pm

No, I don't rip lossless, but I still want accuracy.

This seems self-inconsistent.

glynor · « **Reply #30 on:** January 31, 2011, 01:42:48 pm »

Quote from: kosmicken on January 27, 2011, 07:09:34 pm

AMD Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition 3.2GHz
Asus M4A88T-EVO/USB3 motherboard

That board is based on SB710, which is one of the "bad" AMD southbridge chips.

Check this thread for a possible solution: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=60918.msg411043#msg411043

If you are running in AHCI mode (or RAID mode) and you installed the "AMD Chipset Driver" that ASUS has listed on their website (or the OEM did if you didn't build that system yourself), then you could very well be hitting the problem with the AMD Southbridge drivers. If that isn't it (if you are SURE you are using the default Microsoft drivers), then I also see that ASUS has a BIOS listed for that board that has "Fix the issue that HDD size may be shown incorrectly when using HDDs bigger than 2.2TB" listed in the change log, which is certainly I/O subsystem related, and could also be impacting your issue. Make sure you are using the latest BIOS for the board (0306 currently).

Here is a description of the problem in more detail:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/13832/5

The article pertains to SB600, but AMD did not fix this issue fully until the current SB850 chips (you no longer need the hotfix to be able to install Vista, but the scaling problems are still present everywhere). The best bet is to run those chips in "Legacy" or "PATA Emulation" mode. If you can't because you need some AHCI features (hotswapping, trim, or command queuing), then you're much better off using the default Microsoft drivers. In the Device Manager in Windows, you want to see the drives hung off of a device called "Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller" and NOT off of something called AMD AHCI Compatible RAID Controller, AMD PCI IDE Controller, or anything with the word AMD in it.

glynor · « **Reply #31 on:** January 31, 2011, 01:43:54 pm »

Quote from: MrC on January 31, 2011, 12:25:25 pm

This seems self-inconsistent.

It is not. I rip in secure mode to high-quality MP3s for many sources. Just because you don't want to waste space using a lossless format (especially for stuff that isn't "high-priority"), there is no reason to have an inaccurate rip.

glynor · « **Reply #32 on:** January 31, 2011, 06:14:00 pm »

Oh... And replace the data cable to the drive. Just do it, they come bad, and they go bad (especially from being in one position too long and then being suddenly moved). SATA cables are better than the old IDE cables, but they're still relatively fragile. Either way, they cost nothing on Monoprice.

I've, personally, had weird issues with drives where I was pulling my hair out and going nuts. And, I've felt awful sheepish after replacing the stupid $1 cable and then suddenly everything works.

If all else fails, there are ways to test the drive and see what kind of error rates it is getting.

jmcafee · « **Reply #33 on:** February 19, 2011, 03:35:05 pm »

This is not a problem unique to the OP.

I'm glad to know I'm not going crazy, but I did lose 50% of my hair after spending 15 hours over the last 2 days diagnosing and debugging the same problem with the EXACT same LG Drive and OS as the OP (but my MB chipsets are Intel H55/H57).

The rips are really slow (about 2x), typically 1/2 to 1/3 as fast as ripping from a Lite-On iHOS104 on the same machine; audio analysis disabled.

Moved the drive to a different computer, changed cables, etc. I went so far as to install MC on a WinXP partition (several tests showed much faster rip with the same settings, but this needs to be verified). Tried enabling/disabling AHCI and reloading drivers without affect.

I resorted to installing EAC which seemed to rip secure a bit faster, and was also able to correct errors on one CD that MC reported as "Hard" and aborted ripping from the same drive.

I'm not sure if this is an issue with the OS, firmware, or the way MC interfaces with the drive. LG has not released any firmware updates for the drive.

For most rips I will continue to use MC because the workflow is superior. I'll pull out EAC for the rips that MC cannot overcome errors. And I'll be looking for a new drive.

tunetyme · « **Reply #34 on:** February 19, 2011, 06:02:10 pm »

Have you contacted the optical drive manufacturer with the problem?

Alex B · « **Reply #35 on:** February 19, 2011, 06:31:16 pm »

From my earlier reply:

Quote from: Alex B on January 25, 2011, 03:24:53 pm

I have tested some drives. The secure ripping speeds were from 2.9x to 12.7x in identical test conditions:
"Topic: Recommended drives for secure ripping. Test your drives & post the results".

Could you please try a test setup that is similar to mine and post your results in the linked thread? Thanks.

I guess many of us would be happy to buy a new drive if it is known to be a fast and reliable secure mode ripper. The problem is that we don't know which one to buy. According to my tests one of mine is quite fast, but it is an old model. I don't know what to buy next.

So, if you (anyone who reads this) have a drive that is fast in the secure mode (preferably a current model), please post your test results and comments in the linked thread. You can find my instructions there.

jmcafee · « **Reply #36 on:** February 19, 2011, 10:13:44 pm »

Quote from: tunetyme on February 19, 2011, 06:02:10 pm

Have you contacted the optical drive manufacturer with the problem?

No I have not. Good suggestion (it didn't cross my mind).

juice370 · « **Reply #37 on:** April 16, 2011, 05:08:17 pm »

Kosmicken, anyone else did you sort this issue?

Cheers
Ian

arttist · « **Reply #38 on:** March 22, 2014, 12:08:08 am »

I just built a I7 machine 32m ram with dual SSD's and the same stupid LG drive. I am wondering if it is the cache of 1.5 in size that is the problem I cant seem to get above 3x rip speed and my old sony drive would scream I think I will try to put my old sony in my new machine to see if i can get any better speeds

JimH · « **Reply #39 on:** March 22, 2014, 08:57:19 am »

Is an antivirus program checking the files you're ripping?

arttist · « **Reply #40 on:** March 22, 2014, 10:21:11 pm »

No the Anti Virus is not running It has something to do with the LG Drive I hooked up my old sony via usb and ripped a couple cds and could consistently get 7x-15x rip speeds. the LG would max at 5x but is usually showing 2.9x. I know what Im doing tomorrow ripping out the Lg SUPER MULTI INTERNAL 24X DVD REWRITER WITH M-DISC™ SUPPORT and replacing it with a tried and true sony

I know this was an old thread but 3x rip speeds was making me crazy

hope this helps anyone in the future

JimH · « **Reply #41 on:** March 23, 2014, 08:06:41 am »

If secure rip was set to on in MC for one drive, but not the other, that would make a difference.

arttist · « **Reply #42 on:** March 23, 2014, 05:10:02 pm »

everything was set exactly the same the only difference was the Lg Drive (GH24NS925)was internal and the other disc drive was attached as usb to test. I misspoke I thought this was a sony it is not to be correct it is a HP LightScribe GH15L.

I have removed the LG drive and installed the HP Lightscribe to the internal and hooked up the LG to the usb I am still getting the same results

I can only surmise that there is something in the LG firmware that is slowing things down

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Author Topic: CD ripping painfully slow on brand new PC (Read 54449 times)