Topic: madVR wiki thread (Read 81280 times)

madshi · « **on:** March 01, 2011, 07:32:50 am »

1. What is madVR?

madVR is a video renderer, which you can use as a replacement for the Microsoft stock renderers VMR7/9 and EVR.

2. Where to get it?

Here you can always get the latest version:
http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

You may also want to check out the doom9 development thread, where new versions are announced and discussed:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228

3. Installation

(1) Unzip and copy the madVR folder to the folder you want it to be installed in, e.g. "C:\Program Files (x86)\madVR".
(2) Run "install.bat".
(3) Do not rename, move or delete the madVR folder.
(4) You may want to give the "settings.bin" file write access rights for your current user, otherwise madVR might not be able to store settings. (This will be fixed in a future version.)

4. Limitations

(1) rotated displays (portrait vs. landscape orientation) don't work yet

5. Benefits

(1) madVR pretends to be a game, not a video player. This bypasses many GPU driver problems.
(2) Highest quality algorithms for chroma upsampling, scaling, color conversion etc.
(3) Highest bitdepth processing with final dithering stage for banding-free quality.
(4) Built in complex display calibration capability (if you have your own meter).
(5) Automatic switching between windowed and exclusive mode for tearing free playback.
(6) Carefully implemented presentation algorithm to achieve smooth motion playback.
(7) more to come...

6. Requirements

- Windows XP, Vista or Windows 7.
- A fairly fast DX9 GPU. NVidia or ATI preferred. Intel works, but is really slow.
- CPU must be fast enough for software decoding.

7. Recommendations

(1) Recommended MPEG2 decoder for movies is the "DScaler IVTC Mod", which is able to automatically convert 1080i60 movies to 1080p24 in perfect quality.
(2) For NVidia GPU owners I recommend to create custom resolutions. That makes sure that the GPU output is untouched. With the default HD/SD output modes, the GPU driver stretches the data behind madVR's back which can result in banding problems.
(3) For ATI GPU owners PowerStrip can be used to create custom timings (only until 5xxx, unfortunately 6xxx is not supported by PowerStrip).
(4) ATI GPU owners please use "RGB Full" as the output format. With "RGB Limited" or "YCbCr" output there can be banding problems.

8. Official 1080p CEA timings

For NVidia custom resolutions and ATI PowerStrip tweaking, here are the official CEA timings you should use for the various 1080p formats:

Code: [Select]

Refresh Rate, Horizontal Active Pixels, Front Porch, Sync Width, Back Porch, Total Pixels, Vertical Active Pixels, Front Porch, Sync Width, Back Porch, Total Pixels, Pixel Clock
23.976Hz, 1920, 638, 44, 148, 2750, 1080, 4, 5, 36, 1125,  74.2500 / 1.001 (= 74.175824175824175824175824175824)
24.000Hz, 1920, 638, 44, 148, 2750, 1080, 4, 5, 36, 1125,  74.2500
25.000Hz, 1920, 528, 44, 148, 2640, 1080, 4, 5, 36, 1125,  74.2500
50.000Hz, 1920, 528, 44, 148, 2640, 1080, 4, 5, 36, 1125, 148.5000
59.940Hz, 1920,  88, 44, 148, 2200, 1080, 4, 5, 36, 1125, 148.5000 / 1.001 (= 148.35164835164835164835164835165)
60.000Hz, 1920,  88, 44, 148, 2200, 1080, 4, 5, 36, 1125, 148.5000

As you can see, the pixel clock for the very important 23.976Hz and 59.940Hz refresh rates are "wild", and unfortunately neither ATI nor NVidia allow us to enter enough decimals to get near to the optimal refresh rates. PowerStrip allows finer control to get near to these optimal values. With NVidia you may have to trick a little. E.g. personally, I've modified the "Vertical Total Pixels" number a bit. That allowed me to get nearer to 23.976Hz. But if you modify these values too much, your display might not understand the signal, anymore, and go out of sync. So you may have to experiment a little. You can use the madVR OSD (press "Ctrl + J" to activate) to check how near you got to the optimal refresh rate, cause madVR shows a very exact measurement of the refresh rate.

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** March 01, 2011, 08:18:41 am »

I'd like to add that, in addition to producing the best video renderer, madshi has been a pleasure to work with. He's been extremely generous in sharing his knowledge, so we've learned a lot.

Thanks!

madshi · « **Reply #2 on:** March 01, 2011, 09:54:44 am »

Thanks for the nice words, Jim, I appreciate that...

nedam · « **Reply #3 on:** March 01, 2011, 12:34:23 pm »

Is there anything else I must change in MC or ffdshow for this renderer to work? I have changed the Video Renderer in Video settings to madVR but get the error "It appears that your system is not configured correctly for DVD playback. Additional software....." when I try to play a DVD. I have tried different combinations within settings but nothing seems to work. I am able to play a video in Media Player Classic using madVR so it must be something I need to do but am ignorant of in MC or ffdshow. Any suggestions?

Win 7 32 bit
NVidia GeForce 8800 GS
Media Center 16.036

Thanks

JimH · « **Reply #4 on:** March 01, 2011, 12:38:22 pm »

MC 16.0.39 is available at the top of this board.

Check the playback settings for DVD under Video and under File Types.

nedam · « **Reply #5 on:** March 01, 2011, 02:43:31 pm »

Jim thanks for the response. I upgraded to 16.0.39 and it did not change anything. The playback settings are the same under Tools-Options-Video as they are under Tools-Options-File Types and then choose DVD Video. Everything Automatic except Video Renderer is set to madVR. Should any setting be different? Do I need to change anything in ffdshow?

Thanks

JimH · « **Reply #6 on:** March 01, 2011, 02:46:53 pm »

There are some ffdshow comments in the first post.

nedam · « **Reply #7 on:** March 01, 2011, 03:16:13 pm »

I did try checking deinterlacing in ffdshow and even changed a few settings around (not that I had any idea what I was doing) and nothing seems to solve the issue. I see nothing else for me to try but I am not familiar with ffdshow and its settings. As I mentioned earlier it works in Media Player Classic so I assume it is not a video driver issue. I will keep trying.

Thanks

madshi · « **Reply #8 on:** March 01, 2011, 03:33:01 pm »

Well, one of the current limitations is that the MS DVD navigation filter doesn't like madVR. Maybe that's the problem you're running into. Does playing the VOB files directly (or any non-DVD video file like wmv, mkv, avi etc) work? And can you play a DVD with full menu in Media Player Classic?

mojave · « **Reply #9 on:** March 01, 2011, 03:39:15 pm »

Nedam, in Limitations #4 above it says that the Microsoft DVD navigator refuses to work. This means that you can't use the MadVR renderer for DVD playback. I use EVR as the renderer for DVD. If you rip the DVD to a single VOB file, you can rename the file with an extension of .mpg and then you can use MadVR.

Edit: I was typing this while madshi posted.

nedam · « **Reply #10 on:** March 01, 2011, 03:55:03 pm »

That does seem to be the issue. I was unaware that Microsoft DVD navigator was involved so had no idea what madshi had noted would affect me. Thanks for for the information I will give EVR a try.

Thanks - mojave, madsh and Jim for the response.

Nedam

madshi · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2011, 02:53:57 am »

FWIW, there are 2 workarounds for the navigation problem, both described in this thread:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=159492

Use at your own risk, especially the system file replacement...

Arbiter · « **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2011, 07:37:06 am »

Quote

Recommended MPEG2 decoder for movies is the "DScaler IVTC Mod", which is able to automatically convert 1080i60 movies to 1080p24 in perfect quality.

Where can we download the Dscaler IVTC Mod? I searched google for it but i couldn't find any working links.

madshi · « **Reply #13 on:** March 02, 2011, 08:15:55 am »

Here's the original DScaler IVTC Mod thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=596942

There are working download links in the last page of the thread.

Arbiter · « **Reply #14 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:12:43 am »

Thanks a ton, madshi!

I also want to thank you for making the best video renderer ever! I didn't know about madvr until JimH mentioned it in a post and now that i'm using it, i can't believe how i was "stuck" with EVR and other renderers in the past.

flac.rules · « **Reply #15 on:** March 03, 2011, 01:51:54 am »

I am sorry if my question are stupid, my knowlengde in this field is limited. But madVR is a renderer (i assume the renderer is the program drawing the picture on the screen), that has additional functionality that the decoder usually does (ffdshow in my case), like resizing? And the powerstrip part, is it needed for me? I have a ati 5750, and it supports 23.97, do i need to mess around any more with power-strip, timings and so on?

madshi · « **Reply #16 on:** March 03, 2011, 02:02:39 am »

Quote from: Arbiter on March 02, 2011, 09:12:43 am

Thanks a ton, madshi!

I also want to thank you for making the best video renderer ever! I didn't know about madvr until JimH mentioned it in a post and now that i'm using it, i can't believe how i was "stuck" with EVR and other renderers in the past.

Glad you like it!

Quote from: Elvis133 on March 03, 2011, 01:51:54 am

I am sorry if my question are stupid, my knowlengde in this field is limited. But madVR is a renderer (i assume the renderer is the program drawing the picture on the screen), that has additional functionality that the decoder usually does (ffdshow in my case), like resizing?

Correct. Although it is not usually the duty of the decoder to resize. ffdshow doing that is rather unusual. Most decoders do just decode and nothing else. The video renderer is the best place to do resizing. madVR resizes in higher bitdepth and quality than ffdshow. E.g. ffdshow resizes in 8bit integer per channel, while madVR resizes in 32bit floating point per channel.

Quote from: Arbiter on March 02, 2011, 09:12:43 am

And the powerstrip part, is it needed for me? I have a ati 5750, and it supports 23.97, do i need to mess around any more with power-strip, timings and so on?

If you can run a full movie through without any frame drops/repeats then you don't need to mess around with PowerStrip etc. It depends on how well ATI's default 23.976 mode works on your PC. With a bit of luck it's already near enough perfection that manual tweaking isn't necessary. Furthermore, if you enable MC's new "VideoClock" feature, you won't have to mess around, anyway, because "VideoClock" makes sure that no frame drops/repeats will occur. It comes with a small cost, though: Audio quality might suffer a tiny little bit because VideoClock resamples audio.

flac.rules · « **Reply #17 on:** March 03, 2011, 02:21:47 am »

Thanks for good information. Is there a program or utility that can measure if i get drops or repaets? Or can i do it via MC? So i know if need to engage the videoclock-function?

madshi · « **Reply #18 on:** March 03, 2011, 02:26:01 am »

The madVR OSD (press Ctrl + J) counts frame drops. It doesn't count frame repeats currently, though. That will come in a future version. You can ignore frame drops that happen during the first 5 seconds of playback. There will probably be a few. After a couple of seconds playback you should have no further frame drops, though, if the GPU refresh rate perfectly matches the audio hardware clock.

jmone · « **Reply #19 on:** March 03, 2011, 02:35:38 am »

Let me add my thanks to Madshi and Matt. It was a pleasure to see them work together and help push MC's Videophile credentials.

On a well setup system with a correctly calibrated TV the results are just 1st rate. The other feature recently added that should not be overlooked is MC's ability to resample audio so that video frames are not dropped/added (eg reclock like) though I'm still stuck with reclock till an auto frame rate change feature is added to either madVR or naively in MC.

Thanks again,
Nathan

flac.rules · « **Reply #20 on:** March 03, 2011, 05:24:39 am »

Thanks again for info, seems like it will be a bit easir for people like me to setup proper video-playback with good quality in windows. Because, framkly, it can be quite difficult to understand at times, with filters, encoders renderes, palyback-software and so on.

BryanC · « **Reply #21 on:** March 03, 2011, 08:58:09 am »

Looks like my low-powered HTPC setup doesn't have enough juice. What are the best setting to change in the madVR config to lower the requirements on the GPU? My HTPC is CPU heavy w/ bad graphics (Intel 945GM) that doesn't support hardware acceleration. Since madVR doesn't support DXVA, I thought the GPU requirements would be quite low.

madshi · « **Reply #22 on:** March 03, 2011, 09:07:14 am »

DXVA is usually a fixed circuit that has nothing to do with game/shader/math power. madVR does not use DXVA, instead madVR uses pixel shaders and texture reads to perform the rendering, just like games do. A game does not run faster because it doesn't use DXVA, so madVR won't do that, either. Think of madVR as a game, not a video renderer.

Intel GPUs are really slow on pixel shaders and texture reads. I'd suggest to switch chroma upsampling to "bilinear" and to switch luma up/downscaling to "mitchell-netravali". Hopefully that will allow you to playback at least 1080p24 movies fluidly?

BryanC · « **Reply #23 on:** March 03, 2011, 10:58:35 am »

Those settings didn't quite make it fluid, but by changing them all to Bicubic, it does seems to work. I have no idea if this is a better solution than using the default EVR....

madshi · « **Reply #24 on:** March 03, 2011, 05:18:24 pm »

Something better for Luma than Bilinear would really be nice. You could try disabling some of the "trade quality for performance" option to check if that helps. If not, you may have to live with Bilinear, or use EVR instead. Can't really say which is better: madVR with Bilinear or EVR with a better scaling algorithm. You'll have to trust your own eyes on that. FWIW, I have some thoughts on how to improve performance a bit with a future madVR version, which *may* allow better scaling algorithms to be used with Intel GPUs, too, but I'm not 100% sure how much performance I can squeeze out and I also don't have a release date for that future version. Some other things to do first.

JimH · « **Reply #25 on:** March 04, 2011, 09:39:17 am »

A little madVR / JRiver discussion on AVSForum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1172653&page=11

Ekpen · « **Reply #26 on:** March 05, 2011, 09:31:13 am »

Greetings:

I want to interface Dscalerivtc041105.zip with my setup. I see another version Scaler5ivt251206 and anothe Madvr. Which version should I use? It looks like the Dscalerc04115.zip contains the script that should be used with Madvr or the 251206.

Will this work on setup with Bluray /3D disk and Satellite?
Where do I put the script, if at all this script should be used with MC16? "Extenal Program? .
Thanks.
Ekpen

madshi · « **Reply #27 on:** March 06, 2011, 06:41:02 am »

Script? What script? You need to install stock DScaler5 0.0.8, then replace the files with those from DscalerIVTC041105.zip and Dscaler5.IVTC.251206.zip. Simply use the files which are newer from those 2 zips. Afterwards tweak the settings to enable 24p output. That should be all you need to do.

JimH · « **Reply #28 on:** March 06, 2011, 07:17:10 am »

In the AVSForum thread, 8:13 posted a couple of screenshots for configuring MC and ffdshow.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20102144#post20102144

He asks, "I wonder how many people are using madVR."

SteveGoff · « **Reply #29 on:** March 08, 2011, 11:51:23 am »

This is a great development. Media Center 16 is my favorite audio app, but I've been wanting to try it for video as well. My movies and TV shows are mostly stored as MKV files. What would be the best settings for playback method, source filter, other filters, and video renderer? My computer is running Windows 7, 64 bit, and has an i-530 and AMD HD 5450. I've installed the latest version of MPC-HC, with the latest ffdshow. I'm running HDMI out to an Integra DHC-9.9, which can decode TrueHD and DTS Master Audio. I also have video with multichannel flac.

madshi · « **Reply #30 on:** March 08, 2011, 12:10:11 pm »

You're asking a lot of questions...

I'll try to sum up:

source filter:
I'm using the Haali Media Splitter for MKV. Not sure on which splitter is best for TS/m2ts. Haali Media Splitter and internal MPC-HC splitter both have different problems. Maybe the LAV Splitter is already the best choice? Not sure. For external FLAC files of course madFlac...

video decoders:
I'm using CoreAVC for h264 decoding, but ffdshow seems to work just fine, too, maybe a tiny bit slower. Of course you can also use GPU hardware decoding, but it has its limits and is sometimes less stable in my experience. If you plan to use madVR, you need to use a software decoder, anyway, at least with the current madVR version. For VC-1 I recommend the MS decoder. It works well for progressive content. Rather slow for interlaced content, unfortunately. For MPEG2 movies I recommend the DScaler5 IVTC Mod. For MPEG2 video content (sports, movie concerts) I'd suggest ffdshow.

audio decoders:
madFlac for FLAC. ffdshow for everything else. Eventually CoreAAC for AAC, if you prefer a commercial solution.

video renderer:
You are asking in the madVR thread. So what answer to you expect?

SteveGoff · « **Reply #31 on:** March 08, 2011, 12:32:16 pm »

Thanks! I'll try these settings.

mojave · « **Reply #32 on:** March 19, 2011, 10:23:10 pm »

madshi, you should probably add JRiver Media Center V16 to your list of programs on the Doom9 thread.

Quote

(1) First of all you need to use a media player which supports using madVR as a renderer. Your choices are currently MPC HC, Zoom Player and KMPlayer.

madshi · « **Reply #33 on:** March 20, 2011, 03:12:55 am »

True, will do that, thx.

Oh, and btw, one limitation is now gone, madVR v0.45 just got enhanced subtitle support.

madshi · « **Reply #34 on:** March 20, 2011, 03:30:45 am »

@sunfire7, can you please post in one of the other madVR threads about this? We shouldn't use the madVR wiki thread for bug report discussion etc to keep it clean. Thanks.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #35 on:** April 25, 2011, 09:17:15 pm »

Finally upgraded to MC16 and got this setup on my laptop. madshi, you know my laptop specs and how painful it's been to get madVR to work on it in general, but, I'm happy to report that I've been able to get MC16/madVR/ffdhsow/lavf splitter/cyberlink video decoder (HAM mode) to work perfectly together. Thank you so much for supporting this! This is a powerful combination!

JimH · « **Reply #36 on:** April 25, 2011, 09:37:35 pm »

Quote from: SamuriHL on April 25, 2011, 09:17:15 pm

Finally upgraded to MC16 and got this setup on my laptop. madshi, you know my laptop specs and how painful it's been to get madVR to work on it in general, but, I'm happy to report that I've been able to get MC16/madVR/ffdhsow/lavf splitter/cyberlink video decoder (HAM mode) to work perfectly together. Thank you so much for supporting this! This is a powerful combination!

Very nicely said. We are extremely grateful to all those who have contributed to this success. We look forward to working with you to continue the work. Thank you.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #37 on:** April 25, 2011, 09:54:50 pm »

Quote from: JimH on April 25, 2011, 09:37:35 pm

Very nicely said. We are extremely grateful to all those who have contributed to this success. We look forward to working with you to continue the work. Thank you.

Indeed! The progress that has been made in the last couple weeks alone has been tremendous. MC16 is extremely impressive and when coupled with the other pieces, well,as I said, extremely powerful. I look forward to doing more testing in my environment in the coming days.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #38 on:** April 25, 2011, 10:08:29 pm »

BTW, I want to add to what's been posted in this thread. Those without a fast CPU aren't excluded from using madVR anymore. AMD users can use the Cyberlink Video Decoder in HAM mode for GPU decoding of video. nVidia owners have LAV CUVID which also does GPU decoding. Both of these options are compatible with madVR and work with MC16.

Mike Noe · « **Reply #39 on:** April 26, 2011, 11:20:17 am »

But madVR doesn't really require a fast CPU. madVR currently likes a "fast" GPU shader arch good texture fill rates. In fact, one of the great things about madVR (beyond smoothness and scaling quality) is that if your sources are mostly SD or even lower bitrate HD, CPU requirements are very modest.

One of my playback test machines is using an Athlon II 620, downclocked and downvolted to .93v and 1.6Ghz (using K10Stat) with an older ATI card (HD2600XT). It will happily play BD (24p) and HD MKVs flawlessly all day long. It will not do 60p material with this profile.

Attached see the "stats" while playing back an BD rip into MKV.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #40 on:** April 26, 2011, 11:31:05 am »

It's not madVR that's the issue. For me, I have an Athlon X2 4200+ as one of my HTPC's. It's just not powerful enough to decode HD video (h.264 or VC-1) using a software decoder. Since madVR doesn't work with DXVA, a software decoder is needed. Your CPU is a quad core....hardly "low end" like my dual core laptop and second HTPC.

GPU decoding works wonders in that environment.

BryanC · « **Reply #41 on:** April 30, 2011, 10:55:49 am »

I was having some problems with my Haali->CoreAVC->madVR setup getting stuck on some sections of my x264 rips, so I decided to experiment a little. I tried using LAVSplitter instead of Haali and I could not get any movies to play. madVR would pop up a gray dialog box, but I could not tell what it was saying. Next I replaced CoreAVC with LAV CUVID and I would see one frame of the movie, but it would not play and I could not seek. I replaced LAVSplitter with Haali again and everything worked fine. So my question is:

How do I get LAVSplitter and madVR to work together nicely? It appears that I can get madVR to work with hardware accelerated decoding if I use CoreAVC or LAV CUVID but proper playback is dependent on the splitter.

Also, I've obviously used LAVSplitter as my source filter, but there is also a choice to use LAVSplitter in my decoding filters. Do I need to select it twice? What does the LAVSplitter decoder do? Is it just the non-accelerated decoder?

Thanks!

Mike Noe · « **Reply #42 on:** May 01, 2011, 07:12:21 am »

@Bryanhoop:

On my setup, I have the LAV Splitter Source set up for "Source". I have FFDshow Video Decoder, LAVAudio and Arcsoft HD Audio (DTS only) set up for other filters and, of course, madVR set up as the VidRen.

Assuming your video decoder is working properly, this should be all you need to set up (sans FFDshow), assuming your hardware is up to the task.

You might try substituting the video decoder to FFDshow (-MT under codecs for AVC) to see what happens. I assume when you say "x264 rips", you really mean x264 encodes of AVC material?

You probably already know this too, but madVR requires the video decoder to output NV12 or YV12 format.

Another test is to configure MPC-HC for the same playback graph and see what happens.

BryanC · « **Reply #43 on:** May 01, 2011, 03:28:18 pm »

Mike, thanks for the input.

I don't know if it is a hardware issue but I cannot get any file to play when using LAVSplitter, regardless of decoder and renderer. Strangely, I can also not get playback using Haali, LAV CUVID and madVR if using ffdshow audio decoder or LAV audio but AC3filter works fine.

Weird stuff. Maybe I'll just wait for a few more revisions of LAVSplitter and LAV audio to give it a try.

BryanC · « **Reply #44 on:** May 01, 2011, 04:46:35 pm »

Oh, and a heads up...the upcoming LAV Audio 0.25 will be able to bitstream AC3, E-AC3, TrueHD, DTS and DTS-HD.

I'm just hoping I'll be able to use it.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #45 on:** May 01, 2011, 05:46:06 pm »

It works very well for me. No more requirement of ffdshow for me in order to bitstream audio. The only thing I need ffdshow now for is subtitles.

Mike Noe · « **Reply #46 on:** May 01, 2011, 05:57:49 pm »

Quote from: Bryanhoop on May 01, 2011, 03:28:18 pm

Mike, thanks for the input.

I don't know if it is a hardware issue but I cannot get any file to play when using LAVSplitter, regardless of decoder and renderer. Strangely, I can also not get playback using Haali, LAV CUVID and madVR if using ffdshow audio decoder or LAV audio but AC3filter works fine.

Weird stuff. Maybe I'll just wait for a few more revisions of LAVSplitter and LAV audio to give it a try.

I don't think it's a problem with the LAV filters, they are really solid in these latest revs. I would uninstall Haali splitter and AC3Filter and disable the codecs in FFDshow Audio (maybe uninstall FFDshow as well, though it shouldn't be necessary) and then make sure your LAV Audio decoder has the formats selected. You might also unregister and then re-register the LAV Audio decoder to make sure it's install properly.

I have to echo SamuriHL's comments on the LAV filters. I finally got around to setting up my 7.1 system and have tried some bitstreaming (only have a few titles) and things have performed quite well.

SamuriHL · « **Reply #47 on:** May 01, 2011, 05:59:54 pm »

I missed that you have AC3 Filter installed. Get rid of that as it has caused some issues for others, as well. See if that helps.

BryanC · « **Reply #48 on:** May 01, 2011, 06:41:33 pm »

AC3filter was the problem.

Pretty sweet to have LAVFSplitter->LAV CUVID->LAV Audio (Bitstreaming beta)->madVR with nothing else required!

Good stuff!

SamuriHL · « **Reply #49 on:** May 01, 2011, 06:45:59 pm »

Awesome. I thought that might be the issue. Glad you got that working!

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