Topic: Juli@ sound card problems (Read 19332 times)

iPanini · « **on:** March 04, 2011, 11:33:21 am »

Hi,

With this post I'd like to request your help in tracking down what seems to be an odd hardware issue.
Let me do some introductory explanation:

- First off, I'm a fairly heavy multi-monitor user, leading to somewhat more exotic hardware setup environment
- Having longstanding experience with these multi-monitor configurations using both Win and Linux OS, I was biased to believing my combination of ATI on board + ATI PCIE card was the culprit.
- Setup #1:

Win 7 64bit OS
Gigabyte GA-MA78GPM-DS2H mobo
AMD dual core CPU
Asus EAH4350 PCIE graphics card (3 monitors + Full HD LG flatscreen via HDMI)
ESI Juli@ soundcard
Onkyo TX-NR906

- Setup #2:

Win 7 64bit OS
Asus M3N78-EM mobo
AMD quad core CPU
NVS-450 quad displayport output (specifically for Apple 27" LED monitors)
Onboard NVidia graphical chipset
ESI Juli@ soundcard
Onkyo TX-NR906

- All audio and video files live on a zfs filesystem based NAS

In fact the main problem seems to concern the Juli@ audiocard. It is connected to the Onkyo using coaxial S/PDif.
Using the onboard Realtek (Asus mobo) will make MC15 play nicely.
Switching the Juli@ soundcard moved the problem from one system to the other.
I have not done any uninstall / reinstall

What happens is the Juli@ outputs kind of a digital sounding harsh stream. I do have to test at very low levels out of fear for damage to my equipment.

Using foobar (wasapi) or VLC (I guess directX) plays anything I throw at it up to 192kHz.
MC15 seems to start to play, I can see the level in the socalled VU bar at the top of MC, next the digital streaming sound is output to the AV Receiver, next my main screen goes BSOD.

Experimenting with several zones:
All zones work, if I send a sound to the Juli@ zone this results in a BSOD

Running Sysinternal's DebugView seems to show CTVReadingDatabase each time my system crashes.
I don't know if this may have anything to do with it. I seem to have read a thread somewhere with an older version and a bug concerning TV, but I can't seem to find it back.

I have a dbgview.log available. Please let me know where to send it?
dbgview-4-03-2011.log http://pastebin.com/7q3DBdW4

Hoping to be able to resolve this issue!
Thanks for your help

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** March 04, 2011, 11:38:45 am »

On our wiki there are two articles that may be helpful.

Audio Output Modes
and
DAC Settings

But the BSOD suggests a driver issue.

iPanini · « **Reply #2 on:** March 04, 2011, 11:43:02 am »

Jim, thanks, I've read and applied these two specifically.
I've posted the log to pastebin and added a link, not sure if this will help though.

Do you have any suggestions to isolate the problem between MC15 and the juli@ sound card?
As stated Foobar (wasapi) and VLC play nice...

Erwin

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** March 04, 2011, 12:53:18 pm »

Did you try the manufacturer?
B

iPanini · « **Reply #4 on:** March 04, 2011, 05:19:37 pm »

Do you mean ESI?
I've no problem with filing a request, but to me it seems more like the issue is with MC, with all due respect, as I am totally unable to reproduce any problem with e.g. foobar, VLC etc...

I've already relocated the soundcard to another slot, without result.
I could set interrupts manually...
Or try safemode...

Must admit it seems like old days

Erwin

JimH · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2011, 05:22:44 pm »

A blue screen is usually a hardware or driver problem. If we had the device, we could try to find a way around it, but there isn't much we can do without it.

iPanini · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2011, 05:52:44 pm »

Perhaps we can try a poll?
I did search the forum and found quite some people are using the ESI Juli@.
Find out who's using AMD platform.
Find out who's using 64 bit

What do you think?
I don't mind new install or whatsoever, but I prefer to do it coordinated with you in order to determine what's going on. Not trial and error on the loose. Then we'd be wasting each other's time..

Erwin

MrC · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2011, 06:00:04 pm »

Try setting your system for a kernel dump.

http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f299/blue-screen-of-death-bsod-posting-instructions-windows-7-and-vista-452654.html

A BSOD really is caused by kernel, driver or faulty hardware. You'll have to look at the dump to see what is causing the kernel crash.

MC just makes calls to Windows system functions - these then call upon the functions in the windows kernel, where drivers essentially live too. That the other apps don't invoke a BSOD only indicates they aren't exercising the system/driver in a problematic code path.

iPanini · « **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2011, 06:06:54 pm »

Will do, where do I post the result? techsupportforum.com or here?

Thx,

Erwin

MrC · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2011, 07:09:33 pm »

Probably they folks over there will have a good response. This really isn't the place for Windows debugging.

iPanini · « **Reply #10 on:** March 19, 2011, 11:28:24 am »

Hi,

Here's my coninued experience with MC15 / Juli@ audio card / Win 7.
After doing a complete fresh install of Win 7 on 2 AMD based systems (tried both 32 / 64 bit) I started thinking about a possible problem of the Juli@ hardware with AMD cpu's.

To rule this one out I grabbed a Dell Optiplex GX270 lying around; installed win 7 32 bit;
added the juli@ audio card, installed MC 15.

Tested & set all kHz ranges in windows sound settings; also tested DTS & Dolby, all fully functioning.
Set MC to play to juli@ S/PDIF
Started playing..
From the moment I tried to play 96 or 192 kHz,
alas BSOD...

QUEST:
Could anybody reading this and using a Juli@ audio card please report back with their experience? What OS used?
What CPU platform?

Thanks to all helping out to solve this matter!

Erwin

MrC · « **Reply #11 on:** March 19, 2011, 01:49:41 pm »

What version of the driver do you have installed?

I went to have a look on ESI's forums. There are clearly others who have BSOD problems w/Win 7.

http://forum.esi-audio.com/show.asp?db=esi&t=esi2&mode=0&msg=6700

Their driver for this card were released the day after Win 7 was introduced. They have not been updated since. It appears upon reading the forums, their support seems rather unresponsive. I see one MC user over there. Perhaps he will note this thread and chime in.

iPanini · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2011, 07:14:03 am »

MrC, thanks for posting;
I've also had a look at ESI forum and found numerous links to BSOD as well.
Until now I have not posted on ESI forum yet.
Considering to do so, but actually a little fed up loosing so much time over this subject...
I also wonder how to isolate the relation to the fact that only MC ignites these crashes..
I'll start by setting up for a kernel dump. (I have not yet installed Win 7 SP either.. should try that too..)

Will keep you posted in this thread.

Thank you,

Erwin

lepa · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2011, 11:05:51 am »

Windows XP with AMD & ESI Juli@ working fine here. I guess I'm not uppgrading to Win7 for a while...

robbbby · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2011, 09:02:55 pm »

this won't really help you but I did have a juli@ and MC15 and was running without any real problems.

my setup was
core i3
win7 64
juli@

I have since switched to asus xonar essence. Alot less playing around to get it running smoothly.

epsilonjon · « **Reply #15 on:** November 25, 2011, 05:05:11 am »

I am having the same issue I think, but only with 96khz and above. Most of my music is 44.1khz and that plays fine.

I did have Vista 64bit on there, and with that OS I had no problems with any files. It's only since switching to Win7 that the problems have emerged.

Did you manage to find a solution?

mtan002 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 27, 2011, 10:11:42 pm »

I was pulling my hair over the last couple of days trying to resolve this problem. I am glad I am not the only one having Juli@ problem on Win 7 64 bit.

After a couple of days of experimenting, my observation seems to point the issue with J River 16/17.

Here are the observations:

1. JRiver 17+WaSAPI+Julia SPDIF out = BSOD
2. JRiver 17+Kernel Streaming+Julia SPDIF out = BSOD
3. JRiver 16+WaSAPI+Julia SPDIF out = BSOD
4. Foobar2000+WaSAPI+Julia SPDIF out = OK
5. JPlay 17+WaSAPI+Julia SPDIF out = OK

Now the most important observation:

6. JRiver 15+WaSAPI+Julia SPDIF out = OK

All experiments carried out on the same platform: WIndows 7 64 bit and the same Juli@ driver.

Michael Tan

JimH · « **Reply #17 on:** November 28, 2011, 06:51:36 am »

A BSOD is a hardware or driver problem. That it doesn't happen with another player or another version of MC only means that the conditions that trigger the bug aren't present in that case.

Please report this to the manufacturer and let them know we'll provide a license and assistance. They could write matt at jriver.

mtan002 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 28, 2011, 03:38:57 pm »

I was testing with the same song (CD quality) all the time. This begs the question: why should MC v17 trigger the condition that results in a BSOD while other version or players didn't? In software testing, I called it a bug.

JimH · « **Reply #19 on:** November 28, 2011, 03:42:53 pm »

Quote from: mtan002 on November 28, 2011, 03:38:57 pm

I was testing with the same song (CD quality) all the time. This begs the question: why should MC v17 trigger the condition that results in a BSOD while other version or players didn't? In software testing, I called it a bug.

Because they didn't query the driver in the same way, or because they swamped it with requests, or a million other reasons.

No two programs interact with a driver in the same way.

Have you tried the manufacturer? They may have an updated driver.

Yes, it's a bug. But I believe it's in the driver.

pcstockton · « **Reply #20 on:** December 16, 2011, 01:26:18 am »

i have never once had ANY problems with MC15/16+Juli@ (XP and 7). Not a one.

iPanini · « **Reply #21 on:** December 16, 2011, 02:10:57 am »

Could you tell whether you have SP 1 installed on Win 7?

As I wanted to try out the SACD-IOS and dff file playing, I just re-inserted the Juli@ card in my machine yesterday..
BSOD with MC 16 immediately.
I'm not 100% sure but I believe I had a BSOD with foobar as well, trying to play a dff. I'm quite sure there's no foobar dff decoder or plug-in installed on this machine. I'll try to verify today.

The only thing I'm doubting is about SP 1.

All the best,

Erwin

pcstockton · « **Reply #22 on:** December 16, 2011, 09:04:19 am »

I remember a BSOD when I first installed 7. I think changing to ASIO output fixed that.

Listener · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2012, 07:59:21 pm »

Two possibilities to check with the Juli@ card:

1. The ASIO driver may not work after your PC wakes from sleep mode if MC was running and ASIO was selected for output. It might crash your PC. Support for sleep mode is not universal for ASIO drivers.

2. The ASIO driver may crash if you try to open more than one device (such as offset=0 analog and offset=2 SPDIF) while another connection to the Juli@ card is in progress. Many ASIO drivers simply don't support more than one concurrent connection.

I have experienced both kinds of crashes on a Win XP system.

Bill

fmak · « **Reply #24 on:** January 19, 2012, 08:50:34 am »

When I press play using KS into Juli@, I get a blue screen STOP 0x0000000C5.

MC17 works into ASIO perfectly but KS is my preferred output.

Win XP Gigabyte G31MES2L, Intel E7500, 1GB memory - verty stable system. No problem using KS in Foobar.

Is this a known issue and is there a cure?

Thanks

JimH · « **Reply #25 on:** January 19, 2012, 08:59:18 am »

If it works, ASIO is a better choice than Kernel Streaming.

A blue screen is usually related to the hardware or driver.

pcstockton · « **Reply #26 on:** January 19, 2012, 09:38:37 am »

yup.... Ive seen that BSOD with Kernal+Juli@.

ASIO should fix you up.

-Patrick

Denti · « **Reply #27 on:** January 20, 2012, 06:19:04 pm »

I get clicks and cracks when playing Files (mainly FLAC) using ASIO, but not with WASAPI. I'm using the ESI Juli@ sound card with Vista. The Juli@ is doing the DACing. I have the program set to upsample everything tp 24/192.

Am I doing something wrong? Sound is great, but I though the Juli@ was compatible with ASIO.

JimH · « **Reply #28 on:** January 20, 2012, 06:24:02 pm »

ASIO depends on the driver supplied by the manufacturer. If WASAPI works, it's fine. You're getting best quality sound.

There have been several problem reports lately about the Juli. Here's one:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=62812.0

pcstockton · « **Reply #29 on:** January 20, 2012, 06:29:43 pm »

Juli@ is 100% ASIO-tacular. I have it running on both an XP and 7 machine in ASIO mode with no issues up to 24/96 via toslink output.

The Win7 machine did not like (BSOD) KS-output at higher resolutions (over 16/44).

Otherwise there has never been a single issue.

I would bet if you allow the Juli@ to simply playback at the native bitrate supplied you will not have issues?

Why upsample to 24/192 anyway? Especially if using the Juli@ internal DAC?

-Patrick

Denti · « **Reply #30 on:** January 20, 2012, 09:34:03 pm »

Thanks. So what would be the best settings with Vista and the Juli@? No up sampling, source bit rate, ASIO?

pcstockton · « **Reply #31 on:** January 21, 2012, 11:49:45 am »

I would go ASIO with the Auto setting on the Juli@ and no upsampling in MC.

Denti · « **Reply #32 on:** January 21, 2012, 01:45:58 pm »

24-bit files in ASIO mode aren't easy to play without some crackling, usually with the slightest movement of the mouse, even.

So I'm really not getting better sound with WASAPI and up-sampling?

Any way to put all my PCs energy into the MC so that I don't get that crackling?

JimH · « **Reply #33 on:** January 21, 2012, 02:01:11 pm »

More on this card at computeraudiophile.com:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Help-Esi-Juli-Sound-Card-Settings

pcstockton · « **Reply #34 on:** January 21, 2012, 04:52:45 pm »

Quote from: Denti on January 21, 2012, 01:45:58 pm

24-bit files in ASIO mode aren't easy to play without some crackling, usually with the slightest movement of the mouse, even.

So I'm really not getting better sound with WASAPI and up-sampling?

Any way to put all my PCs energy into the MC so that I don't get that crackling?

I get ZERO crackling with the Juli@ on my weak ass XP machine when playing 24/96.

But i do with the M-Audio Transit and 24/96.

RE: upsampling. Let your own ears tell you if it is better or not. No crackle seems "better" at least.

-Patrick

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Juli@ sound card problems (Read 19332 times)