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[juice370]

Ripped 10 CD's today using ape no problem, all seem fine. Next 10 are all muffled on playback. Sounds like when playing through a knackered speaker. All previously ripped Flacs play back fine too so my set up seems fine and speakers and leads are definitely ok.

Any ideas?

Thanks
Ian

[Matt]

Are you ripping in secure mode?  Does the secure rip report show a perfect rip?

Is there any chance the CDs have "pre-emphasis"?  This is really rare, so I can't imagine owning ten discs that have this (unless they're a set).

Also, you might reboot just to rule out some weird soundcard issue.

[juice370]

Hi Matt,

Secure Mode Yes, lots of errors on the report including these random bits below. I've cut each short.

- Brand new Dell PC delivered Friday, to run Media only. All CD's in question are like new, no scratches. I've tested a few of the CD's that haven't ripped clean and they also sound bad when played in MC and WMP.

Q. Are we looking at a dodgy drive, sound card, settings or other do you think?


Thanks a lot for your advice


Rip Report Excerpts:

Nyana (Disc 1) - DJ Tiesto  >>> Drive D: TSSTcorpDVD+-RW TS-H653G  Mode:ModeSecure  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
Track  1: Secure rip, no re-tries. [Love Is Tronger]
Track  2: Secure rip, no re-tries. [Chutney]
Track  3: Secure rip, no re-tries. [Acapulco]
Track  4: Secure rip, no re-tries. [Obsession]
Track  5: Secure rip, no re-tries. [Totem]
Track  6: Secure rip, no re-tries. [Let the Liht Shine In]
Track  7: Secure rip, no re-tries. [Inca]
Track  8: Secure rip, no re-tries. [Nyana]
Track  9: Non-secure rip, 3% of sectors needed re-reading and 3% of sectors could not be verified.  [Venus]
00:00:21  6 re-reads required to get good data
00:00:32  9 re-reads required to get good data
00:00:36  5 re-reads required to get good data
00:00:39  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:00:43  3 re-reads required to get good data
00:00:46  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:00:50  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:00:54  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts


100th Window - Massive Attack  >>> Drive D: TSSTcorpDVD+-RW TS-H653G  Mode:ModeSecure  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
Track  1: Secure rip, no re-tries. [Future Proof]
Track  2: Secure rip, no re-tries. [What Your Soul Sings]
Track  3: Secure rip, no re-tries. [Everywhen]
Track  4: Secure rip, no re-tries. [Special Cases]
Track  5: Secure rip, no re-tries. [Butterfly Caught]
Track  6: Secure rip, no re-tries. [A Prayer for England]
Track  7: Secure rip, no re-tries. [Small Time Shot Away]
Track  8: Secure rip, no re-tries. [Name Taken]
Track  9: Non-secure rip, 1% of sectors needed re-reading and 1% of sectors could not be verified.  [Antistar]
00:15:21  2 re-reads required to get good data
00:15:25  9 re-reads required to get good data
00:15:28  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:15:32  5 re-reads required to get good data
00:16:15  2 re-reads required to get good data
00:16:22  9 re-reads required to get good data
00:16:26  14 re-reads required to get good data
00:16:30  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:16:33  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:16:37  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:17:45  2 re-reads required to get good data
00:17:49  4 re-reads required to get good data
00:17:52  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:17:56  4 re-reads required to get good data


Mtv Unplugged - Alanis Morissette  >>> Drive D: TSSTcorpDVD+-RW TS-H653G  Mode:ModeSecure  Type:Auto  Speed:Max
Track  1: Non-secure rip, 97% of sectors needed re-reading and 86% of sectors could not be verified.  [You Learn]
00:00:00  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:00:03  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:00:07  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:00:10  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:00:14  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:00:18  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:00:21  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:00:25  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:00:28  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:00:32  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:00:36  6 re-reads required to get good data
00:00:39  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:00:43  2 re-reads required to get good data
00:00:46  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:00:50  9 re-reads required to get good data
00:00:57  6 re-reads required to get good data
00:01:04  4 re-reads required to get good data
00:01:08  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:01:12  12 re-reads required to get good data
00:01:15  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:01:19  2 re-reads required to get good data
00:01:22  5 re-reads required to get good data
00:01:26  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attempts
00:01:30  Unreliable data after 16 re-read attemp
 

[Alex B]

Next 10 are all muffled on playback. Sounds like when playing through a knackered speaker.

Could you descripe "muffled"? Do you mean lack of treble or something else? Is the problem constant throughout the tracks? If it comes and goes do the error positions in the rip logs match with the audible problem instances?

I've tested a few of the CD's that haven't ripped clean and they also sound bad when played in MC and WMP.

The same question as above, i.e. are the complete tracks bad or does the problem exists only during certain passages and how exactly does it sound bad?
When you just play the discs (without ripping) can you reproduce the problem?
Are some discs really not affected at all? (Please re-rip a "previously good" disc to verify this.)

[juice370]

Hi Alex,

I've tried it in MC 15 and 16 BTW, same negative result.

By muffled I mean, 60% loss of clarity with a horrible distortion. Place the singer/audio in the bathroom, it adds this weird echo effect if you know what I mean. Or how about this, Imagine an old boy racer's car (I'm sure you have these guys in the US too) when the door panels shake and create that horrible resonance. Sounds a bit like that.

Yes consistent throughout the whole track when affected. Does it in MP3, APE, FLAC whether ripped from MC or WMP.

OK I did all of what you've suggested plus some other bits. Here's what I've found.

- The CD's effected play fine in my laptop with the same Creative speakers connected. Sounds perfect in MC and WMP on default settings. CD's rip fine, no problem on the laptop and play back as they should.

- All sound drivers on the problem (and new) desktop are up to date, ran the Dell diagnostic on the drive, it came out OK.

- I tried a USB CD drive on the desktop, it improves play back by about 80%, It's still not as good as the laptop playback with the Creative Speakers though, definitely still has some clarity issue. Looking in device manager they are the same in laptop and Desktop. But the laptop has an extra sound card for whatever reason.

What do you think?

- Dodgy CD drive?

- Faulty Sound Card?

- Settings? Although MC and WMP are on default settings, I haven't touched these on the laptop nor Desktop.


If it is just a faulty CD drive (must be if it works better on the usb one) can we look at the settings in MC, is there anything there I need to tweak to match my system?


Thanks for your input so far
Ian

[Matt]

Yes consistent throughout the whole track when affected. Does it in MP3, APE, FLAC whether ripped from MC or WMP.

Take a file that sounds bad, and play it on a different computer.  Does it sound better?

If so, it's a sound output issue on that one machine.  If that's the case, you might try WASAPI exclusive to see if you get any better sound.

[Frobozz]

Some troubleshooting things to try

Check the cable for the CD/DVD drive and make sure it is properly connected to the drive and to the main board.

Install ImgBurn.  When ImgBurn starts it runs a check for a few known bad drivers that can mess up CD reading or writing.  It will note any problems it finds in its log window.

Install the utility Filter Driver Load Order and see if any funny looking drivers get loaded.  It will display what filter drivers are installed.  Google/Bing each driver to see if any are known bad actors.

[juice370]

No Matt, files sound bad on both machines. Update: Uninstalled sound drivers and reinstalled, USB CD now sounds perfect in playback and rips. Internal CD in desktop, no change. Also ripped on internal DVD drive good and bad discs from yesterday and same result.

Prognosis = Internal CD drive, doesn't like specific CDs and specific tracks on other CD's. 3 days old from new. Replacement being sorted tom plus I've ordered a 2nd internal drive, different brand just in case the existing won't play all CD's like now. The usb drive isn't mine, i borrowed it to test 

First issue with Dell in 8 yrs and 14 machines.

Thanks for your help lads
Ian



 

[juice370]

Hi Frobozz,

I was just writing my post as you posted yours. Cable I'd checked. The other things I hadn't and i will just to make sure, plus great for future ref. 


Thanks
Ian

[juice370]

Update: Tried using WASAPI, no result. Using devfilter tool from bustrace as recommended by Frobozz I located the Upper and Lower Filters and deleted and let the PC do its thing after restart. No change. Phoned Dell, they were clueless and much to their credit sent an engineer out the following day to change the CD drive and Motherboard. No change. So reinstalled the OS from the partitioned backup. Again No change, the problem is still present. The offending CD's still play and rip OK from USB CD drive but not the internal drive.

What I have noticed is, when I copy the offending CD's and then play or rip the copies, the problem disappears, they play and rip fine. So a CD issue it looks like... I think?

Today Dell have arranged for a new tower to be sent and are collecting the existing. I'm impressed with their service it has to be said. Lets see if a replacement unit helps. I'm not so positive if it has the same drive installed.

Weird! 

[Alex B]

I've ordered a 2nd internal drive, different brand just in case the existing won't play all CD's like now.

...and much to their credit sent an engineer out the following day to change the CD drive and Motherboard.

Today Dell have arranged for a new tower to be sent and are collecting the existing.

- What is the drive make and model? Is the replaced drive of a different brand? Are you still getting an additional drive?

- What is the BIOS mode for the used SATA channel? Some motherboards have had problems with the ACHI or RAID mode. The IDE emulation mode (if available) may work better. What is the motherboard chipset?

[Alex B]

Here is a thread from last December:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=60918

The symptoms were somewhat different, but bad ACHI drivers were causing the problem (on a DELL PC).

[juice370]

New Update: Dell sent the new tower with the same brand of DVD drive - Samsung TS-H653G. The problem is still present with this drive. So I installed a Samsung SH-S223C drive from Amazon and this one works fine. I'd still like to get the original drive working OK though so I can burn CD's from drive to drive without the hassle of problems.

Not sure about the BIOS and Motherboard answers Alex, I'll have a poke if you can guide me. Also uninstalled and installed all windows drivers as per the referenced forum post and still no change.

I found out, if I copy one of the offending original CD's to a blank CD (I've always used TDK CD-R's as I never get failures) and then rip from this copy, everything is fine. Rips perfect and plays perfect. So what does this tell us? Just to reiterate from my initial post, the problem CD's are all original, like new with no scratches and 2 are brand new.

Any thoughts appreciated before I buy a second DVD drive.

Thanks
Ian

   

[JimH]

Ask Dell to swap the drive.

[juice370]

I did Jim but they'll only swap like for like. First time Dell haven't stepped up to my requests. Told them I'm not happy. We'll see what happens.