Topic: Commercial Skipping for Recorded TV (Read 4300 times)

nwboater · « **on:** May 12, 2011, 09:54:39 am »

With the recent improvements made in MC with television we are again considering it's use - For TV that is, we use it and love it for music!

There are many advanced features and plugins in the program we are using for TV on our HTPC that would be difficult to give up. Probably the most important is automatic commercial skipping as done by Comskip or ShowAnalyzer. Is there a way now to do this automatically for recorded TV in MC? If not is it something you will be working on? (I hope, I hope!)

Thanks,
Rod

raym · « **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2011, 03:01:29 am »

I add my vote for comskip support every now and then but it doesn't attract too much attention. As you mentioned, once you get a taste for automatic commercial skipping, it's a hard thing to give up

I hope MC will suport it one day.

rpalmer68 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 15, 2011, 02:37:33 am »

This is unlikely to every happen I'd say as MC's native recording format won't work with comskip or Showanalyzer as it's not a normal mpeg or dvr-ms file.

Shame as I used to like this feature too.

Although if you use the skip forward 20 seconds (right arrow) it's pretty quick to jump the commercials.

Richard

nwboater · « **Reply #3 on:** May 15, 2011, 11:38:41 am »

What a shame that MC is using a file format that wont work with Comskip or Show Analyzer. Guess that format may also not work in other players? Do you know what it is?

Don't think my wife or I could be talked into using the remote to skip forward through the commercial in 20 second chunks. When there are a lot of them that would be a bunch of button pushes. I could also imagine skipping part of the actual show when going in 20 second increments. Not good - especially after being spoiled and excited with fully automatic commercial skipping!

So unfortunately we'll have to continue using MC just for music. Sigh!

Rod

cncb · « **Reply #4 on:** May 15, 2011, 01:34:58 pm »

You can set MC to record to .ts which should make it compatible with commercial skipping. I'm not sure the disadvantages of using this rather than the jtv format...

nwboater · « **Reply #5 on:** May 15, 2011, 02:01:16 pm »

Quote from: cncb on May 15, 2011, 01:34:58 pm

You can set MC to record to .ts which should make it compatible with commercial skipping. I'm not sure the disadvantages of using this rather than the jtv format...

Interesting. So it could be done in MC. Our files are recorded as .ts by our other program. But someone still has to write whatever is required to interface MC with Comskip or Show Analyzer. In the case of our other program it was done by outside authors as a plugin for Comskip.

Rod

nwboater · « **Reply #6 on:** June 21, 2011, 08:13:03 pm »

With the demise of SageTV (Just sold to Google & their store is closed) I am looking for alternatives. I have long wanted to use one program for all media and JRiver is my top choice.

An absolute necessity for TV though is commercial skipping via Comskip, ShowAnalyzer or whatever else might work. I sure would appreciate some feedback from JRiver if this is something they are considering doing. Please, please, please respond to this, yea or nea! If JRiver doesn't want to do it is there some way it could be handled by a user/developer created plug in as it is in SageTV?

There are a lot of Sage users also looking for alternatives. Now that video is working so well with RO and other improvements this would be an opportune time for JRiver to make a big push in the TV area.

Thanks,
Rod

Matt · « **Reply #7 on:** June 21, 2011, 08:37:55 pm »

With a remote, I find it really easy to skip commercials. Tap right a few times on the remote and it's done. The new audio fade-in makes it even more pleasant.

I don't think the problem really deserves a complicated solution that won't work nicely with live TV, only works with some video formats, etc.

That's just my personal opinion.

nwboater · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2011, 10:52:35 pm »

Hi Matt,

Thanks very much for the prompt response.

I had planned, and then forgot, to put in my post that using the remote to skip commercials is not an option. When you get accustomed to automatic commercial skipping going backwards is not an appealing option.

Re live TV. Very few people that have commercial skipping watch live TV. We rarely do. One of the big advantages of a PVR is that we watch a program (mostly movies for us) when we want to - not when the broadcaster dictates.

An earlier poster mentioned that MC should be able to record .ts files which are treatable by Comskip. Can MC record .ts? And is there a disadvantage to using them?

You ended the post with an interesting comment: "That's just my personal opinion." Is it possible that others in the company might feel differently and could possibly be persuaded? I truly believe that if you want a large volume of users for TV that Comskip or equal is a necessity.

Thanks again for responding, Matt.

Rod

JimH · « **Reply #9 on:** June 22, 2011, 06:43:38 am »

Rod,
Just tossing this into the mix... I'm uncomfortable removing commercials since they were the people who paid for the content to be created or shown. It's a little like stealing the content, in my opinion.

As Matt says, it is simple to skip them with a remote. I understand you don't want to do that.

Jim

nwboater · « **Reply #10 on:** June 22, 2011, 08:42:24 am »

Quote from: JimH on June 22, 2011, 06:43:38 am

Rod,
Just tossing this into the mix... I'm uncomfortable removing commercials since they were the people who paid for the content to be created or shown. It's a little like stealing the content, in my opinion.

As Matt says, it is simple to skip them with a remote. I understand you don't want to do that.

Jim

Hi Jim,

Thanks very much for the prompt response and your explanation. I of course am not happy with it, but do appreciate your candor and ethics.

Rod

JimH · « **Reply #11 on:** June 22, 2011, 09:42:44 am »

Rod,
Just to show how much backbone I have, we still may do it.

Jim

nwboater · « **Reply #12 on:** June 22, 2011, 11:32:17 am »

Quote from: JimH on June 22, 2011, 09:42:44 am

Rod,
Just to show how much backbone I have, we still may do it.

Jim

Jim - I knew I liked you!!!

You also just gave my wife and I a huge laughing session.

Thanks,
Rod

cncb · « **Reply #13 on:** June 23, 2011, 12:53:16 pm »

Yes, now would be a good time in my opinion to enhance tv recording. I personally don't use commercial skipping but it would be attractive to potential SageTV "refugees". The top 2 on my list would be a Windows service for the recording "engine" and a grid-style program guide.

nwboater · « **Reply #14 on:** June 23, 2011, 03:26:37 pm »

Quote from: cncb on June 23, 2011, 12:53:16 pm

Yes, now would be a good time in my opinion to enhance tv recording. I personally don't use commercial skipping but it would be attractive to potential SageTV "refugees". The top 2 on my list would be a Windows service for the recording "engine" and a grid-style program guide.

If the guide is not a grid what is it? And I assume that programs can be directly watched and/or recorded from it.

Not sure what you mean by needing a Windows service for the recording engine? What would it do and what problem would it solve?

Thanks,
Rod

glynor · « **Reply #15 on:** June 23, 2011, 04:12:50 pm »

Quote from: Matt on June 21, 2011, 08:37:55 pm

With a remote, I find it really easy to skip commercials. Tap right a few times on the remote and it's done. The new audio fade-in makes it even more pleasant.

I don't think the problem really deserves a complicated solution that won't work nicely with live TV, only works with some video formats, etc.

That's just my personal opinion.

I agree, Matt. I played with Comskip on Sage, and ended up turning it off. When configured correctly, it did seem to actually work pretty well, but there were a bunch of "fiddly bits". The biggest problem was that it didn't play nicely with my HD-PVR recordings without a bunch of hacks, and it seemed to make Sage less stable.

A simple 30-ahead, 7-back FF/RW scheme works just fine. And, you get to see the occasional brilliant commercial if it catches your eye as you skip.

mojave · « **Reply #16 on:** June 23, 2011, 04:56:56 pm »

Rod, do you archive your tv recordings? If so, you may want to try VideoReDo. The basic version will edit .ts files just fine and since there is no transcoding, it is quite fast. It talks about saving to DVD on the website, but you can just save as .ts files in a folder that MC16 auto imports. I haven't used it in a while, but it only took a minute or two of my time to completely remove commercials.

glynor · « **Reply #17 on:** June 23, 2011, 05:07:01 pm »

VideoReDo is awesome. I can absolutely confirm that.

cncb · « **Reply #18 on:** June 23, 2011, 05:10:00 pm »

Quote from: nwboater on June 23, 2011, 03:26:37 pm

If the guide is not a grid what is it? And I assume that programs can be directly watched and/or recorded from it.

Not sure what you mean by needing a Windows service for the recording engine? What would it do and what problem would it solve?

The current guide is a one-dimensional list of what's on all the channels grouped by time.

A Windows service will prevent any crash in the main program from taking down any recordings in progress with it. I know ideally there would be no crashes but this isn't feasible in my experience/opinion. Also, recordings can take place when you are not logged in to Windows (as would be the case if there was a power failure and the computer restarted without you being there to log in). SageTV and WMC separate tv recording out into a Windows service.

nwboater · « **Reply #19 on:** June 23, 2011, 07:04:03 pm »

Quote from: glynor on June 23, 2011, 04:12:50 pm

I agree, Matt. I played with Comskip on Sage, and ended up turning it off. When configured correctly, it did seem to actually work pretty well, but there were a bunch of "fiddly bits". The biggest problem was that it didn't play nicely with my HD-PVR recordings without a bunch of hacks, and it seemed to make Sage less stable.

A simple 30-ahead, 7-back FF/RW scheme works just fine. And, you get to see the occasional brilliant commercial if it catches your eye as you skip.

I'm surprised you had difficulties with Comskip in Sage. Have you tried it with Sage 7? You just select TMirandas Commercial Detector and one other from the list of Plugins in Setup. Everything gets automatically installed and for us 'just worked'. It's great. We run it in the automatic mode and I'd say it's about 95% accurate. Misses a few on some channels, but I haven't taken the time to 'tune it' since it's so good for the most part. Seems to me that a lot of other Sage users love it and couldn't go back once they got used to it.

Also we use an HDPVR and I'm not aware of any problems with it that are related to Comskip. Just the usual HDPVR need for a reset occasionally.

Rod

nwboater · « **Reply #20 on:** June 23, 2011, 07:15:36 pm »

Quote from: mojave on June 23, 2011, 04:56:56 pm

Rod, do you archive your tv recordings? If so, you may want to try VideoReDo. The basic version will edit .ts files just fine and since there is no transcoding, it is quite fast. It talks about saving to DVD on the website, but you can just save as .ts files in a folder that MC16 auto imports. I haven't used it in a while, but it only took a minute or two of my time to completely remove commercials.

Not sure what you mean by "Archive" our recordings. Our HDPVR in Sage saves them as .ts files. About a year ago when we tried using MC for video I moved a bunch of them on our Server to a folder that MC could access. It worked okay. But the past year we have just been watching everything (mostly movies) in Sage. I have just left them in the SageTV Recorded folder. I may move a bunch again when I get some time. But Comksip is working so well and so automatically that the idea of spending even a little time per recording just seems like a nuisance. Guess I'm getting lazy! But thanks for the tip on VideoReDo. Good to know in case I ever want to do some video editing.

Thanks for trying to find us a solution.

Rod

nwboater · « **Reply #21 on:** June 23, 2011, 07:24:50 pm »

Quote from: cncb on June 23, 2011, 05:10:00 pm

The current guide is a one-dimensional list of what's on all the channels grouped by time.

A Windows service will prevent any crash in the main program from taking down any recordings in progress with it. I know ideally there would be no crashes but this isn't feasible in my experience/opinion. Also, recordings can take place when you are not logged in to Windows (as would be the case if there was a power failure and the computer restarted without you being there to log in). SageTV and WMC separate tv recording out into a Windows service.

Surprised to hear that the guide is such a basic tabulation!

I can certainly understand your wanting the Windows Service, and of course a grid guide.

Thanks for the explanations.

Rod

glynor · « **Reply #22 on:** June 23, 2011, 07:47:16 pm »

Quote from: nwboater on June 23, 2011, 07:04:03 pm

I'm surprised you had difficulties with Comskip in Sage. Have you tried it with Sage 7?

Yep. I never used SageTV "in production" before v7.

Comskip WAS very easy to install. The stability thing could have just been a fluke. I tried it while I was having all sorts of problems with Sage at the time, which are now solved.

I did have trouble getting it to detect commercials on my HD-PVR recordings. It was all crazy wrong (and most recordings ended up with none). In the end, I decided it wasn't worth the hassle. I might try again, if Sage doesn't go the way of the dodo.

glynor · « **Reply #23 on:** June 23, 2011, 07:49:45 pm »

Quote from: cncb on June 23, 2011, 12:53:16 pm

Yes, now would be a good time in my opinion to enhance tv recording. I personally don't use commercial skipping but it would be attractive to potential SageTV "refugees". The top 2 on my list would be a Windows service for the recording "engine" and a grid-style program guide.

I totally agree. Sage refugees are likely going to be looking for another high-quality product to flee towards.

nwboater · « **Reply #24 on:** June 23, 2011, 10:30:08 pm »

Quote from: glynor on June 23, 2011, 07:49:45 pm

I totally agree. Sage refugees are likely going to be looking for another high-quality product to flee towards.

They are and there is a thread on the Sage forum discussing this. Many programs are mentioned and MC is not one of them. They also linked to a Wikipedia comparison of many players and MC again was not listed. I sent an email to JRiver alerting them of this.

Apparently MCs TV support is much further along that many of us realized. Even with some large missing functions it would seem an opportune time to both promote it and hopefully accelerate development.

Rod

imugli · « **Reply #25 on:** July 19, 2011, 08:57:50 am »

Mark me down as a +1 for this.

I've started recording a lot more stuff since creating a few new views and this would certainly be a welcome addition to MC.

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Author Topic: Commercial Skipping for Recorded TV (Read 4300 times)