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[JimH]

[Edit for build 111.  June 15, 2011]
MC has been a DirectShow video player for several years, but DirectShow can be difficult to configure.  Now, in MC16, you can set playback to our new Red October mode and it just works.  We take care of downloading best of breed and "known good" filters when required, installing them and setting them up.  We use our own file locations and process to build a reliable DirectShow graph without interfering with your current configuration.  This is a big leap forward for MC's video reliability and quality.

In a build 103, that will be released here this week or next, you will find

MC16 introduces a new feature we call Red October.  Like the movie, it's quietly stealthy and powerful.  If you check the option under MC's Video settings, we will take care of setting up DirectShow so that video will play without further effort.  Thanks to the beta team for help in choosing filters and configurations.

If you leave the setting unchecked, you will be able to choose your own DirectShow filters and settings.

[BryanC]

I cannot wait to play around with the new version.

Questions:

• Will there be any way to determine filter selection before playing a file?
• Does Red October alter settings within the filter settings?
• Will MC download the appropriate filters or must they be preinstalled?
• Can we see a list of the filters/priorities for each file type?
• Does this affect audio bitstreaming or other custom setups?
• Is hardware acceleration used by default?
• Will we have a choice of which renderer to utilize if we use Red October?

[JimH]

MC will get the files it needs and configure them. 

Bitstreaming is possible.

The renderer will eventually be MadVR.  We still have a few issues to work out.

For the most part, it will be on or off.  If you want to tweak, you can turn it off.

[glynor]

I'd just like to shout-out personally to Nathan (jmone) for doing an awesome job of pulling together a consensus on filters.  This is really going to be great when it is done.  Frankly, with the exception of some relatively minor fiddly bits, it is already awesome.

[flac.rules]

What will happen to my existing settings if I turn this on and off?

[SamuriHL]

Your existing settings will stick.  That's the beauty of this...if you turn it on, it determines the best filters/configuration for you and you sit back and relax.  If you want something different, turn it off and tweak to your heart's content.  It's the best of all worlds IMO.  And yes, shout out to jmone for sure on picking the right filters for this feature! 

[Daydream]

pulling together a consensus on filters. 

That's no small feat. Congrats to everybody involved. I'd like to read some more.

[flac.rules]

Your existing settings will stick.  That's the beauty of this...if you turn it on, it determines the best filters/configuration for you and you sit back and relax.  If you want something different, turn it off and tweak to your heart's content.  It's the best of all worlds IMO.  And yes, shout out to jmone for sure on picking the right filters for this feature! 

That is nice. Would it be possible to post on the wiki what is chooses as filters and settings? (or in the program somehow), so one can use that as a starting block for further tweaking?

[SamuriHL]

That is nice. Would it be possible to post on the wiki what is chooses as filters and settings? (or in the program somehow), so one can use that as a starting block for further tweaking?

That's a bit more complicated.    In my experience it tries to use ffdshow for most decoding.  It autoconfigures it on the fly to what Red October believes is the best settings.  Jmone really helped drive that one.    If you have things that don't play with Red October enabled, you should report it so they can improve upon it.  But yea, I think you're right in that the settings it tries to use should probably be listed somewhere.

[JustinChase]

I just spent some time quickly testing some files, and most played fine.  I notice that pretty much everything was using ffdshow Audio, which seemed to work fine for the 10 or 15 files I quickly tested, which is great.

I am curious why ffdshow audio was/is chosen over LAV audio, mainly just because it seems LAV audio is sort of built to work directly with LAV splitter, which *is* being chosen.  No big deal, just curiosity, as long as it works, no complaints

However, WTV files put MC in a perpetual state of "*starting", which had to be killed with Task Manager.  When I restarted, and tried again, it just killed MC immediately.

I restarted and looked at the video options for WTV and noticed that even if I turn off Red October, I can select LAV splitter (either version) and it doesn't "take".  When I go to options again, it's back to Automatic for the splitter.  this makes me think LAV splitter can't deal wtih wtv files, but I didn't remember this limitation.  so, I started playback on an mkv file, to get it playing back, then right-clicked and clicked on LAV Splitter to open that dialog box, but it's totally blank.  both tabs are completely blank.  then when I closed the dialog, it crashed MC.

I restarted and tried this again, and it crashed again.  Feels like a bug.

I noticed in the release notes that MC is using the newest version of LAV filters 0.27, but I only have 0.26 installed on that machine so far (just haven't updated it yet).

So, I wonder if there is some conflict going on with MC using 0.27 (somehow), but with 0.26 actually being installed

I'm going to leave it like this for a little while, in case you want me to test anything (remind me where to turn on logging if you want logs).

if I don't hear back about testing requests, I'll update to LAV filters 0.27 and test again.

[JimH]

rick.ca,
Your post is on the beta board.

[glynor]

I am curious why ffdshow audio was/is chosen over LAV audio, mainly just because it seems LAV audio is sort of built to work directly with LAV splitter, which *is* being chosen.  No big deal, just curiosity, as long as it works, no complaints

I believe they needed some additional features added to LAV audio before it could be easily used in place of ffdshow audio.  However, I also believe that nevcairiel is currently working on filling their exact wish list, there's just a well-deserved fishing trip in the way right now. 

This was JohnT's post on this exact subject just last Thursday (surprising no one, jmone started a discussion about this very subject), which I think makes their plans pretty clear:

Some of the next stages are:
1. make it bulletproof for all video files you can throw at it
2. make it customizable for tweakers who want to use certain "known good" filters in the video graph
3. make the final decision on the base filters to use in the filter pack (this is where we choose ffdshow vs. LAV audio for example)

So don't worry, we haven't turned down any particular audio decoder road yet. 

We are further along (much) than when that post was made, especially on #1, but I don't think any door has yet closed.

PS.  I hope this is okay, since it is public now, I thought this was valuable information.  If not, delete this post.

[glynor]

However, WTV files put MC in a perpetual state of "*starting", which had to be killed with Task Manager.  When I restarted, and tried again, it just killed MC immediately.

This is occasionally how it has acted with a few of the file types I'd encountered that it couldn't properly handle in the initial phases.  This is still early.  Any files that you find that don't work, they'll want reports on (and sometimes copies of the file in question if they're rare or hard to find/make).  You probably WILL find some that don't work, but most of the "big ones" should just fine.

I doubt that they want it to hang like that for the long term, but this is still "cooking".  I do think there might be something else going on here though, because some of us are still seeing this occasionally with files that DO otherwise work.  We'll just have to report on it.

I noticed in the release notes that MC is using the newest version of LAV filters 0.27, but I only have 0.26 installed on that machine so far (just haven't updated it yet).

So, I wonder if there is some conflict going on with MC using 0.27 (somehow), but with 0.26 actually being installed

I don't believe there should be.  The Red October system uses its own filters, that it downloads, not the system ones.  It doesn't install/register the filters that it uses on the system at all, so they should be totally independent of what you have on the system in most (all?) cases.

[JustinChase]

Excellent info.  Thanks. 

I expected there may still be a few niggling issues, so I'm not complaining, mainly just providing feedback to try to help diagnose issues from a wider base than the beta group (I miss being in the beta group )

I'll upgrade the LAV filters to 0.27 tomorrow, and test some WTV files again, both with RedO and without, and report back.

if anyone wants to see some logs, just let me know.  the files themselves aren't anything special.  OTA recordings from WMC7, unmodified by anything else.

Captain Matt: You're afraid of our filters. Well, you should be. Personally, I'd give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?

 

[flac.rules]

While one must be careful not to make the feature too complicated (it kind of defeats the point), would it be an idea too have two settings? High performance, and High Quality (with the latter running upscaling and other filters?)

[jmone]

The idea is to get something that "just works" for most user and I think it is pretty well there.  Hats off to the JR guys for the work over the last couple of weeks on this.  The option for tweakers is then to turn it off and tweak away!

[Mr ChriZ]

This is great for Portable Installs!  I really can take my movie collection to any machine now and just play 

Excellent Feature!  Well done guys!

[JimH]

Another thread on Red October with FFDshow